Controversy Surrounds Dove's "Real Women" Ads

[liberalpragmatist]

Summer of Dove

WEB EXCLUSIVE
By Susanna Schrobsdorff
Newsweek
Updated: 3:13 p.m. ET Aug. 3, 2005

Aug. 3, 2005 - Even if you haven’t seen Dove’s "Campaign for Real Beauty," you’ve probably heard about it. The ads promote a new line of skin-firming creams and feature six "regular" women of varying sizes and ethnicities cheerfully posing in plain white underwear. The curvy nonmodel models were introduced by Dove in June, but newspapers across the country are still simmering with dueling diatribes about Dove's selection of women who are neither skinny nor camouflaged in sexy clothes. Everyone seems to have an opinion about whether the women are a revolutionary rejection of the superthin media ideal, or just nice girls who are too chubby to be up on billboards wearing next to nothing.

Dove marketing director Kathy O'Brien says that the company wants the ads to "change the way society views beauty," and "provoke discussion and debate." They have certainly succeeded in provoking people. There is a surprising amount of hostility in some reactions to the ads. Lucio Guerrero, a staff reporter for the Chicago Sun-Times who was apparently offended by the sight of the ads on his commute, wrote on July 19: "Really, the only time I want to see a thigh that big is in a bucket with bread crumbs on it." Guerrero may have won himself a spot as the Ann Coulter of ad commentary, but there were also critical remarks by some female writers indignant because Dove had the nerve to sell anti-cellulite potions while saying that women should feel beautiful just the way they are.

<snip>

This isn't the first time that we’ve had a body reality check in the mainstream media. In 2002, More magazine ran a ground-breaking photo shoot with actress Jamie Lee Curtis. Intending to show how little celebrities resemble their glossy images, Curtis, then 43, who was known for her enviable figure, posed without makeup, in unglamorous underwear. Even though the article won acclaim from readers, there hasn't been much promotion of the natural look since then. But Dove, which is a division of Unilever, may have tapped into the same voyeuristic vein that has made reality-TV shows so popular. Even if the ads prompt a few “yikes!” these real women are almost impossible to ignore.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8813128/site/newsweek/page/2/

[Catherine Vincent]

1. I like the ads.

Why are these people complaining? Are they threatened by full figured women?

[really annoyed]

3. I Do Too

And you'll notice the only controversy being created by the ads are the "overweight" women.

Nobody has said anything about the ads with older women with wrinkles and redheads with miles of freckles.

[Tux]

12. Yup

People are used to super-thin models. I know a kid that said Pamela Anderson is fat!



Yes, women have curves. Without curves, women would be ugly men.

[Chovexani]

28. Gee, thanks

>Yes, women have curves. Without curves, women would be ugly men.

I'm a woman that naturally looks like a #2 pencil. Thanks.

[Tux]

42. No problem

I'm overweight enough to compensate for you and 2 other thin girls.

[really annoyed]

2. Of course!

The women are too fat and they are promoting obesity! :sarcasm:

You should have seen what happened to the Dove billboards in the United Kingdom. Here are some of the better sayings sprayed on the boards.

"FAT ISN'T GLAMOROUS"

"SELLING OBESITY BY THE POUND."

"WHO ATE ALL THE PIES?"

In NYC, somebody scribbed "TYPE II DIABETES" on the board.

Sadly, I'm sure there are people at DU who would agree with these assessments - apparently, being fat is not considered a worthy lifestyle choice.

Here's my favorite article on the subject.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/otherviews/cst-nws-dove31.html

[candy]

4. Are the ads for Dove Bars or Dove soap? Ho,ho !

[really annoyed]

7. It Only Took Five Minutes

For the anti-fat brigade to show up. I can't even imagine somebody making such a callous remake against a gay person here.

I guess the "tolerance" of liberalism only goes so far around here.

The women in the ad aren't even FAT!

Here's another fat cow for you to make fun of.

[YOY]

8. Thank You!

My wife and I think that the ads are great!

Beauty doesn't have to come in a size 2 or a size 14 either for that matter.

The women in the add just look happy and comfortable with themselves.

That is sexy.

[getmeouttahere]

16. She looks good to me....

nice hips, nice legs...nothing wrong with her

I find that a segment of British society also has a problem with supposedly non-skinny women...those of you who have seen "Love Actually" do you remember when the assistant for the Prime Minister says that the girl that the PM fancies "has huge thighs, and a sizable ass." OMG!!! Martine McCutcheon is gorgeous, with a great body! What is up with that???

[shelley806]

41. I thought until fairly recently that the obsession with thinness and

eating disorders was strictly an American neurosis (Twiggy was naturally skinny), until Princess Di made public her bulimia. I didn't believe it until her appearance on live television coverage. I'm sure that it helped thousands of women worldwide; as I think these Dove ads might do.

[WCGreen]

18. That woman is simply gorgeous...

There is absolutely nothing sexier than a voluptuous woman.....

Gorgeous

[getmeouttahere]

24. Amen to that, WCGreen!

[SoCalDem]

46. Huh?? I wondered too until I read the article

Dove , without the rest made me wonder..

I dislike the heroin-chic skin & bones look :)

I did not see #4 as anti- gay.. what did I miss?

[kestrel91316]

21. Darn, I was hoping for a news piece about my favorite dark chocolate

:eyes:

[Cocoa]

5. that's not much of a controversy

some schmo on the train doesn't like the ads.

[ContraBass Black]

6. Every time I see one, I can't help thinking that they look

A whole lot better than any other models I have seen in underwear.

Fat? They're completly firm. Not a bit of flab on them.

I enjoy the view.

[Raiden]

9. I've seen the ads, and I think the ladies look very nice

kinda like Renee Zellweger in BJD :9

[vogonjiltz]

10. I like the ads too, I don't think they look fat, just real.

[devilgrrl]

11. Okay... which one of those women are fat? What is fat?

Personally, I like the ads... normal women for a change! In fact, most of my female friend's bodies are various shapes and sizes. This is silly! :crazy:

[Triana]

13. Related Article...

...

http://www.alternet.org/story/23885/

[getmeouttahere]

23. Beatiful article...

one of the few articles I've been able to really enjoy in months.

[getmeouttahere]

14. I find them attractive, and they are NOT fat....

we need more of this kind of thing. Women of all shapes and sizes are beautiful. Something like this is long overdue, IMO. You just can't win with some people.

[Straight Shooter]

15. I saw the ad for the first time today in Real Simple magazine.

I looked at it and thought, "All right!"

I'm so disgusted by the bosomy waif look. Maybe it's fine for some people, but many Americans are overweight and the diet industry exploits them down to their last dime.

FWIW, I thought the women in the ad were far from overweight. They just looked like real people to me. Now let's start showing some men who aren't buff in the same kind of ads. Yeah!

[givemebackmycountry]

17. The thing I like about these ads?

Is that most of the women in these ads look HAPPY!!
And to this MAN, happy women are SEXY women!

Give me a happy, sassy, laughing, shit talkin' woman, any day of the week as opposed to some sullen, anorexic, heroin addict looking chick.

If she's got a little tummy who cares??
If she's happy in her underware with me, that's all I care about!

Don't they know the old truism??

REAL woman have curves.

Randi Rhodes.

Now that's one sexy broad.

[smbolisnch]

19. I think the women in the ads are beautiful.

And as for the guy with the comment :

"Really, the only time I want to see a thigh that big is in a bucket with bread crumbs on it."

in the OP article, my guess is he isn't seeing many women's thighs up close with an attitude like that.

[HughBeaumont]

20. These are healthy women, not fat. Jesus Christ.

Yeah, let's instead LAUD the McDonalds French-fry figure, achieved by a diet of cigarettes and coffee steam. Man, super-skinny no-assed 12-year-old-boy-looking women like Paris Hilton and (sadly) Lindsay Lohan are NOT attractive in the least. I get more turned on looking at the Dove women because they're firm with nice stacked bodies, bubbly smiling faces and hot butts. This is what a woman SHOULD look like.

[getmeouttahere]

25. Couldn't have said it better myself...

Why is Cameron Diaz attractive? She has no hips, no butt, it's just void.

[omega minimo]

22. Any outrage or articles on the "normal" models that look anorexic and ill

and the mindfucking perpetrated on a whole generation of young girls growing up with those images?

:scared:

[progressivebydesign]

31. Dontcha know all women should weigh 98 pounds and have big boobs?

I mean.. that is the new body standard isn't it? A body like a starving person with impossibly large boobs and lips. I have gotten to the point where my Victorias Secret catalog goes right into the trash. I used to like their clothes, but I can't get past the disturbing images of the models. My gawd! Women should NOT have creases inside their thighs and their ribs should not be poking out, and we wont even go into how their breasts are larger than their heads and somehow are suspended on those pre-pubescent sized frames! Hey, if you're naturally thin, which I was most of my life, that's fine, but the standard of beauty that is being peddled to girls and women is sick and unhealthy.

[omega minimo]

33. It's the starving stick legs and arms in the ads geared toward

teens and pre-teens that are disturbing and mindfucking. Sometimes the extreme photos look doctored and unreal. The "normal" for girls now is totally anorexic.

Not good for the boys, either.

[SoCalDem]

47. BIG plastic "cereal bowl" boobs

on the body of a 10 year old boy... :puke:

[Spock_is_Skeptical]

26. I don't see anything wrong with the ads

and it is pretty disturbing to see how people label any woman who isn't an emaciated, anorexic waif in print or film to be "fat." I mean, wake up people... most of the female population is *not* that emaciated or waify.

And I don't mean obese or even fat, of course. Just normal, healthy female bodies. Good grief.

[getmeouttahere]

27. It's maddening, isn't it?

This is why I liked the film "Calendar Girls" so much!

[Chovexani]

29. I like the ads

My problem is not with these ads, it's with militant size acceptance people who don't think it's enough to simply lift themselves up, but feel the need to hate on and bash skinny women.

Look, I'm just as much against the media foisting unrealistic body expectations on women as the next reasonable person. I just think going too far in the other direction isn't the answer. I'm naturally skinny, and I didn't starve myself to get that way--tall & skinny is just a body type that runs in my family. Why can't we just disabuse ourselves of the notion, any notion, that "Real" women must look like anything other than what is healthy and natural for themselves? I really, really want to get on board with the size acceptance movement, but it's really hard to when people are perpetrating this "skinny bitches are evil" mentality.

And no, before anyone starts wanking about it, I am not trying to cry "reverse" discrimination. I'm just saying that women of all sizes have body issues, and we need to be lifting each other up instead of tearing each other down, no matter what size we are.

[liberalpragmatist]

32. That's a good point

We do need to remember that there are plenty of "real women" who ARE thin.

I think we can all agree that this emphasis on uniformity is what's really the damaging thing. And that's why I think this ad campaign is attractive. I'm a male and I find many of those women VERY attractive - which isn't to say I don't find thin women attractive. But people DO come in all different shapes and sizes to pretend that only ONE media-promoted image is attractive is doing a disservice.

Someone earlier mentioned something about having ads without beefcake men. As a naturally short, thin, lightly-built male I think we have an all-around overdone obsession with certain perceived archetypes such as buff, hairless men and wafer-thin women as the only acceptable forms of attractive people.

As for the issue of attractiveness of thin women, for me personally the issue is health. Someone who is naturally thin is going to be healthy, and that's something that's evident. Imposed sickness, which is a hallmark of unnaturally thin women is NOT attractive. People are more attractive being who they are, whether that's thin or more buxom, NOT what they force themselves to be out of a misplaced sense of what is supposed to be attractive.

[Chovexani]

34. Exactly..

People are more attractive being who they are, whether that's thin or more buxom, NOT what they force themselves to be out of a misplaced sense of what is supposed to be attractive.

You hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately, pushing a very narrowly defined image of beauty is profitable for big business, and I think that's why we are constantly bombarded with the same nigh-unattainable ideal in the media. After all, if ads celebrated beauty in all types of people, everyone would feel good about themselves and wouldn't see the need to spend billions of dollars on cellulite cream, Rogaine, plastic surgery, etc...

God, it seems like everything in our society just comes back to selling widgets. It's so freaking depressing.

[omega minimo]

38. What'd we miss?

"but it's really hard to when people are perpetrating this "skinny bitches are evil" mentality."

Where'dya get that?

"Why can't we just disabuse ourselves of the notion, any notion, that "Real" women must look like anything other than what is healthy and natural for themselves?"

Another consideration is how marketing vampires use cliches to sell to their target demographics. When pitching to new markets (underrepresented cultural groups) they often do it in a real ham-handed way. I wonder how many newly targeted groups are insulted by the stupid stereotypes shilled by Madison Ave. to peddle their disposable whatnots.

[progressivebydesign]

30. I like the ads.. but the women didn't seem heavy at all..

..they actually looked kinda thin, I thought they all looked like models anyway. But I like the idea of it.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

35. I think the women are beautiful, and it's about time. They did a segment

on this on the Today Show and the biggest critic was some older stick figure from a high fashion magazine. I wonder why?

[baldguy]

36. The Campaign for Real Beauty

http://www.campaignforrealbeauty.com/

[Book Lover]

37. Slate article here

http://slate.com/id/2123659/

But there's a dirty little secret here. Because, in the end, you simply can't sell a beauty product without somehow playing on women's insecurities. If women thought they looked perfect—just the way they are—why would they buy anything?


These Dove ads say it's cool to be round and hefty … so long as your skin is taut and firm and perfect. (And, in case you're curious, Dove says these photos were not retouched at all.) But what's that, you say? You love your real curves, but you've got a little cellulite? Girl, run out and buy our hocus-pocus cream right now! Those cottage cheese thighs are vile! Dear God, cover them up!

Short-Term Grade: A. These ads are real attention getters—everyone's talking about them. On that level, they're a smashing success. Also, Dove now owns the "friend of the everywoman" angle. Smart move on their part to spot this open niche and grab it. Finally, if I can get sappy for a moment, it is sort of nice to see the unperfect have their day in the sun.

Overall Grade: D. Sadly, this is not a winning play for the long haul. If Dove keeps running ads like this, women will get bored with the feel-good, politically correct message. Eventually (though perhaps only subconsciously), they'll come to think of Dove as the brand for fat girls. Talk about "real beauty" all you want—once you're the brand for fat girls, you're toast.

[Captain Hilts]

43. Slate's right. Advertiser's count on women being insecure...

and make billions off of it.

A cream to make your cellulite go away??? Get real Dove!

[Matariki]

51. The real creepy undertone of these ads

is presenting perfectly normal and attractive women as 'fat' or 'chubby' or less than perfect. giving every perfectly normal woman a benchmark to compare themselve to, i.e. "I *am* fat - here's proof". i stay away from woman's magazines and television like the poison it is. i think i'm happier for it.

[Swede]

39. I wish I wasn't programmed like Pavlov's dog.

Really,what do big boobs and a flat tummy have to do with anything but marketing. Yet we get bombarded with it every day. Same with make-up.

[ailsagirl]

40. I despise Dove-- its parent company, Unilever, tests on animals

I know that wasn't the gist of your thread, but I wanted to point that out.

http://www.arkonline.com/animal_test.html

:puke:

[Captain Hilts]

44. Anyone who reads the WashPost every day probably doesn't notice...

a thing. There are huge ads of women in white underwear in the paper nearly every day.

I'm tired of close ups of women in underwear and don't want to see it on bus stop billboards.

[shelley806]

45. I've only seen this commercial a few times, but I love it. It's real and

that makes it artful. I really liked the music too (can't remember what was played.) Being in the medical profession, I can't tell you how many times I've cringed, when I've heard a white male physician describe a normal woman as 'mildly' or 'moderately' OBESE...when they were no more obese than the physicians themselves! I am a thin female physician (skinny white woman!)who thinks that we have become way too weight conscious. Physicians should be promoting health, and often I have found that they're just as much slaves to the culture as the rest of us. Anorexia and Bulemia and Obesity are health problems...but the trend toward skeletal thinness is abnormal and therefore unhealthy. When physicians promote lower than 'normal' weight as NORMAL, they contribute to the etiology of eating disorders as much as media does, IMHO.

[mixedview]

48. Well, as the ladies like to say, "size does matter"

Both men and women are insecure about certain things.

Both sides use those insecurities against each other in order to avoid rejection/pain and gain an upper hand (even when they don't really believe it, eg. a man who reallly likes heavier women but goes along with the busty/thin standard and makes fun of heavier women, or a woman who really likes a shorter man with a smaller penis but goes along with the taller/bigger is better standard and makes fun of smaller men).

It will only end when there is mutual disarmament.

Until then it will be mutually assured destruction, unfortunately.

[carnie_sf]

49. They were up in SF early

I think they are a refreshing counterpoint to all the heroin-chic Bebe ads

[Matariki]

50. unbelievable that anyone would call those women 'chubby'

what the hell is wrong with people?

[Catherine Vincent]

52. They say that to make themselves feel good I guess.

[dr.strangelove]

53. Is it really that hard for a woman look good

Women should eat only low fat low carb diets, depending on height, weight should be in the 95 - 110 pounds. A woman should never be shorter the 5 foot 10, have a minimum C cup bra size with a bust line of 32 or 34 inches.

My standards have plenty of room for diversity among women. Some women can get naval piercings and some can not. Some women can be blonds and some can be brunettes, even the occassional black haired or red haired woman, if she meets the rest of the standards. Oh yeah, all women must also have perfectly clear skin.

If you can't comply with these simple standards, you should spend you entire life in gym or doctor's office trying to comply with these standards.

PLEASE! What a load of crap. The women in the Dove ad campaign are incredibly attractive, especially the black woman third from the left in the billboard on the southern side of Times Square in NYC (My office window looks out at the billboard) She is flat out HOT!