Should/would we treat the obese the way smokers are treated?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

Watching the film "Supersize Me" and this question was brought up.

As a smoker, I have had people come up to me to lecture me about smoking even when I am not smoking. They'll tell me of friends and family members whose deaths were blamed on smoking. It really gets tiresome and IMHO, is rude as hell.

But, many feel that they have not only the right but the mandate to malign the smoker because of their conception of a self-destructive behavior.

I would not walk up to a large person at a buffet carrying a mountain of food to his or her table and lecture them, but what about you smoke nazis? You paragons of virtue?

[AllyCat]

1. I don't walk up to smokers and say those things, even though I

vehemently oppose the habit. But I have a similar feeling toward those who are overweight. Observing patients everyday who are obese, I see they have more complications (Diabetes, heart problems, high blood pressure are the biggies), take longer to heal, and end up readmitted far more frequently than those who are normal weight.

[Midlodemocrat]

2. Personally, I don't think you can compare the issues

Smoking in public affects me because I am severely allergic to cigarette smoke. I really resent having to walk through clouds of it to enter a store because the employees are all congegrated outside on a smoke break.

Someone's obesity doesn't affect me, except for the issue of health costs, in which case smoking and obesity are both an issue for the public.

I am not physically bothered by someone's obesity like I am smoke, so unless we are talking health care costs, I don't think they are comparable.

[BlueEyedSon]

3. "except for the issue of health costs"... yeah, those being a minor

annoyance...

[Midlodemocrat]

4. It wasn't clear to me from the OP whether he

was speaking about health care issues, or just obesity as unattractive.

[BlueEyedSon]

6. Is it the "unattractiveness" that leads you to your position on smoking?

[Midlodemocrat]

8. ?

I think I clearly stated that I am severely allergic to cigarette smoke.

[jus_the_facts]

19. bet you're severely allergic to car exhaust too...and is a much bigger....

...problem to everyone's health and the planet's as well....oh the HUMANITY!!!

Sorry if I sounded so harsh...but this topic always hits my last nerve...when the BIGGER picture of health concerns tends to take a *backseat*. :hi:

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

13. To quantify, it is just as rude for a smoker to smoke in restricted

areas such as work, office, your home, while shopping... (Wow. Just about anywhere today).

The actual topic in the film was related to health costs coupled with other people's reaction to concieved self destructive behavior.

[Midlodemocrat]

14. I haven't seen the film, but I will take your word for it.

In that case, they are both just as self-destructive, but I wouldn't ever be rude to anyone about their situation. I don't like walking through smoke, but my mom smoked for 50 years and I know how desperately she was addicted, so I have sympathy for people who are addicted.

I do not have any sympathy, for teenagers who smoke. There has been 40 years worth of warnings not to smoke, and if they do and get addicted they are just being stupid.

[Divernan]

5. Overeating IS self-destructive, but there's no second-hand fat invading my

body, as second hand smoke irritates the hell out of my eyes and does long term damage to my lungs. So if people are obese, it doesn't affect my health.

Why would people come up to you and lecture you about smoking "even when I am not smoking."? Please explain the circumstances which triggered said lectures. Could it be that you, your breath, your hair and your clothing reek of smoke?

I recently got stuck by weather delays at an out of town airport and ended up at a Sheraton where the only rooms available were "smoking" rooms. The hotels try to deoderize these rooms after every smoker checks out - but the second hand smoke in the room actually hurt my lungs to breathe it and made my eyes sting. I called and offered to pay more for any level of non-smoking room, but none were available - so I sat in the hotel dining room until it closed and just slept a few hours in the room.

By the way, are you disputing the fact that smoking does cause all kinds of serious health problems, such as lung cancer and emphysema? If so, you're in denial big time. I have one adult child who has smoked since college. I also have one close friend who smokes. They both acknowledge the harm this does to their health. Neither of them smokes when they're with me - they take a break and go outside or elsewhere to have a cigarette. To each one of them I've said that I wish they could quit and that if they develop a serious/fatal health problem because of the smoking I will feel guilty for not having asked them to quit. Having once, formally asked them to quit, I then told them I would't bring it up again. Both of them have tried to quit, without success. I hope they'll try again and succeed.

[Midlodemocrat]

9. I agree totally.

Being allergic to cigarette smoke is hard at times because now that most places like stores, malls, etc are non smoking, people stand in front of the entrance and smoke before going in.

We were recently at a restaurant where they tried to stick us in the bar. No one was even there because it was lunchtime, but the smell was so bad, I had to come home. I simply can't abide it.

[Lannes]

24. "but there's no second-hand fat invading my"

Damn Divernan,beat me to it!

[Scout]

7. for some fat people, this is already happening

there's no point in being rude to strangers, just because some other asshole thinks it ok to be rude to smokers. IMHO anyway.

personally, having some stranger say rude things to me does absolutely nothing to make me want to lose weight. It does make me want to punch them in their fucking big mouth, but it doesn't make me want to lose weight. Go figure.

edit: I am a former smoker, and I don't ever lecture strangers or friends who smoke.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

10. Treat them like this.

http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-083.shtml

Obesity
Updated: 11/19/2004

Facts On Obesity
Why Obese People Can't Loose Body Fat
The Pathology Of Obesity
Initial Treatment For Obesity
The Scientific Premise Behind Early Day Eating
Today's Diet Fallacies
Fiber
The Glycemic Index
Thyroid Deficiency And Weight Gain
Other Hormone Imbalances
Fat-Loss Supplements
How Body Fat Accumulates
How Guarana Induces Fat Loss
CLA + Guarana
The "Friendly" Fats
Chromium
Magnesium
Stevia
Implementing A Natural Weight Loss Program
Summary
Appendix A
Appendix B
Appendix C
Appendix D
Appendix E
Appendix F
Appendix G
Appendix H
As people age, they often accumulate excess body fat. Weight gain not only creates cosmetic problems, but it also contributes to disorders such as Type II diabetes, cardiovascular disease, cartilage breakdown, sexual dysfunction, and even cancer. Typical approaches to conventional weight loss have a high failure rate. However, the scientific literature provides data indicating that sustained weight management is attainable.

Carrying extra pounds has a profound impact on our health and well-being. Perhaps the most devastating emotional impact of being overweight comes from the frustration of continued dieting without success or ending up heavier than ever after following a diet.

Many physicians fail to realize that no single fat reduction protocol will work for everyone. That is why overweight people must follow a custom-tailored program to modulate factors in their body that result in excess fat build-up. There are several common culprits that cause aging people to add body fat and to also prevent them from losing it. These missing links are often overlooked, and the result is that most weight loss programs fail.

[progressivebydesign]

11. Oh God. another poor me post about smoking!

Another person's obesity does not affect me. There is zero harm to other people by their obesity.... Smoking, however, DOES affect others, unless you smoke only in your house or car ALONE, the smoke travels and injures others.

As far as lecturing smoker, I could care less if y'all want to kill yourselves ugly and slowly, but don't take all of us down with you. Thank you. I guess many of us cannot fathom why in the world people would knowingly kill themselves that way... it boggles the mind. My fave are the smokers I know that drink bottle water because tap water is 'bad for you' and 'full of chemicals'.

Sorry for your addiction.

[MrSlayer]

12. I usually blow smoke at the complainer and tell them to fuck off.

And if I was fat and someone tried to pull that shit they'd get the same. Maybe I'd sit on them.

[Catholic Sensation]

16. while i'm not a smoker

(just can't stand the taste) I like how you handle people who tell you to stop smoking :D

[jus_the_facts]

22. LOL....I tend to be accommodating to others displeasure of my habit....

...and not offend...but the fact that car exhaust emissions are a much bigger factor in the overall *allergic* response to health always seems to be ignored and they continue to DRIVE and kill everyone and everything in their wake...the ignorance of that fact is what always sets me OFF when I hear all the bitchin' and moanin' about cigarettes. :nopity:

:hi:

[Lindacooks]

29. Yeah, well, you know what the difference is?

Cars have other functions - to move people around, and contribute to the economy.

Cigarettes have NO function, other than to kill. You can't compare the two.

Your right to smoke ends at my nose.

And I'm overweight, and have ZERO doctor bills, except for checkups.

[jus_the_facts]

30. Hmmm...cigarettes contributed to the economy before cars were invented....

:think:

[Zorra]

15. I never lecture anyone about smoking, but cigarette smoke has

an offensive, disgusting stench, and it is difficult to understand why many smokers cannot seem to comprehend why people that do not have a tobacco addiction do not want to smell the highly toxic fumes emanating from their burning cigarettes.

I mean, it would be awfully rude if I had a "steaming pile of shit habit", and carried around a steaming pile of shit, stuck it under people's noses and constantly forced people to smell it against their will, wouldn't it?

[MissWaverly]

17. Look, I wish more people would lecture you

I heard all about rights for smokers from my mother who smoked 3 packs a day from smoking and died from it, the 2 biggest causes of pancreatic cancer are nicotine and caffeine(people who use both, you have to be a heavy smoker and a heavy caffeine user). If anything would turn you down the road to good health it would be worth it. I would have ripped the bricks out of the street in front of the hospital if it would have given her a 10 minute break from the pain & there were no cigarettes, when you are on oxygen you can't have them and they give you no patches so you go cold turkey. Plus, if we lose you, we lose another smart liberal DU'er and it seems that we have been losing a lot of them lately.

[catnhatnh]

18. 2 posters already complained....

....about people smoking outside buildings....that's modern America-the smoke nazis chase them out into the street then complain about the deviates congregating and blowing smoke into the Earth's atmosphere which after all they would also like to control....

[Nikia]

20. Weight, eating, and health are more complicated than smoking

I am a recovering anorexic and attend a support group for that. What is difficult in recovery from eating disorders, whether overeating or undereating, as opposed to drug addictions (including smoking), is that you have to deal with food every day. To not smoke or use other drugs, you can avoid buying the drug, avoid asking people for it, and even avoid situations where other people are doing it. Food is all around us. Overeaters still have to eat. Anorexics have to make the decision to eat for every meal and to eat enough. Bulima is not just vommitting after one eats. A form of bulima that some have is a cycle of overeat and undereating. Many of the anorexics were overweight at one time and dieted until they were underweight. Some of the recovering anorexics start binging occaisionally and become bulimic. I even talked to one woman who is an overweight anorexic, who doctors are concerned about because she is diabetic and messing up her blood sugar when she is fasting.
Aside from these eating disorders, we must remember that everyone has different metabolisms and some have disorders or medications that make them heavier or lighter than others while eating the same food. A 1800 calorie diet might cause one person to be overweight while it might cause another person to be underweight.
Now that I am thinking a bit more clearly, most of the time, I know that being thin is not about health. I look at a family picture of myself when I was normal weight and think that I was really fat then as I visibly have fat unlike the popular actresses, pop stars, models, and myself as I am now. I also remember that is when the doctor said that I was at a good weight for myself. I have both thin and fat genes by looking at my grandparents and pictures of my ancestors. If I let myself get overweight, I will still likely live into my 70's. If I don't eat healthy every day, as opposed to being malnourished, I could drop dead within a few years or even months.
Smoking is something you do or don't do. We all eat. We all have certain bodies. It is not the same thing.

[dalaigh lllama]

21. Some curious things I've noticed

I'm still a smoker, and live in a rural area where the air is relatively pollution free. My kids both live in metropolitan areas, and when I visit them, I find the fumes from cars truly noxious. No one ever runs up to a car complaining of the fumes bothering them, but the same people have no qualms in accosting the solitary smoker. I drive by factories with huge plumes of smoke pouring from chimneys -- no one is knocking on their door with complaints. Granted, smoking is bad and second hand smoke is bad, but I think smokers have become the lone scapegoat for air pollution.

[jus_the_facts]

25. THANK YOU....I've posted the same above about car emissions...

:hi:

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

23. I don't have to breathe the obesity of the guy at the next table. It

doesn't cause cancer or make my eyes water or my wife cough and gag.

[silverlib]

26. Health costs

As a medical transcriptionist, I have found that about 97% of diabetics do not smoke.

I would think that quitting smoking, with the weight gain that is normally associated with the task, would put this person at a great risk for diabetes.

I don't understand why I have never seen this addressed in the medial community. Diabetes and cancer are both horrible diseases. But, I've never heard anyone say that an ex-smoker died because they quit.

Not a rant, just a question that has been bothering me for quite some time.

I agree with previous posters who say we have a lot of disgusting environmental issues that need addressing. And I blame these issues on the increase in people with allergies. Before our ozone problems, I remember very few people with allergies. It's just easier to blame a segment of people than to make governments and industry clean up the planet - another "smoke screen."

Oh and yes, I quit two years ago, and have the added weight to prove it - another step closer diabetes and will probably die on a dialysis machine. Okay - probably to far out there - but I do see a difinite correlation.

[Orangepeel]

27. someone who would lecture a smoker about smoking

is also someone that would lecture a large person about their weight.

rude people are rude.

[zalinda]

28. These two things have nothing to do with each other

except that they both cause medical problems.

One, impinges on another person's air space, the other does not.
One, is a conscience decision to start, the other is not.
One, is cured by quitting the action, the other is not.
One, is a learned action, the other is not.

You decide to smoke, you do not decide to become obese. You need food to survive, you do not need smoke to survive. This is where your little rant parts company.

Obesity has many causes, and only one of them is because people eat too much junk food. Some of it is economic. Take a look at food prices. The cheap food is the most fattening. There's heredity, ask Carol Alt, a beautiful plus size model. She used to starve herself and take pills to be a "regular" model. She finally had enough and now eats properly and exercises and she is a plus size model. Then there's health issues, both with exercise and with diet. So many people are getting an illness that has fatigue as it's major symptom.

If diets worked, there would be little obesity in the world. And, there is little research done on what causes it, except if a person eats too much.

zalinda

[Touchdown]

34. I beg to differ.

It is a conscious decision to have that 2nd hamburger.
It is a conscious decision not to exercise.
To a point, they are both addictions, and cures are not here yet.
One learns how to eat by watching the Ding-Dongs, Lucky Charms, Chicken McNuggets, Star Wars Toys inside every box, Coca-Cola, and Hanker for a hunk-a-cheese commercials on Saturday Morning TV from age 2, graduating to Mentos Freshness, Nachos Bell Grande, Snap into a Slim Jim, and put it in your head Mr. Pibb with free iTunes downloads on every cap on MTV for the teens.

I agree on the economics, and the heredetary issues, but those do not account for 60% of the country being clinically obese.

[seabeyond]

31. because what we want in this society is create a person

all of who a person is, in one word

smoker

obese

then we do nothing, no work, no listening, we can just say bad.

makes it really easy for us. lets play this game

repug
liberal
fundie
unchristian

we dont have to think any more. we dont have to see all of who the person is. we have labeled them, now we can attack. we dont have to be conflicted. we dont have to be challenged

they are evil. they must be stopped. the end justifies the means

sound famaliar

epidemic in the u.s. of a

[OzarkDem]

32. So called "Prevention" strategies are going overboard

Like many other areas of medicine and public health - people are beginning to overreach in this area. There are far too many health problems being attributed to overeating that have no basis in scientific fact.

Cutting smoking, obesity and increasing exercise isn't going to be a cure-all for every health care problem and will, in fact, only impact a few.

Its gotten so bad public health officials are now making idiotic statements such as "breast cancer is due to lifestyle factors". Oh, yeah? Which ones? If inherited genes and growing old are lifestyle factors, I'd hate to see their solutions for those. I've even caught a few idiots trying to promote the idea that smoking causes breast cancer.

Enough of this crap. People are falling for these cons put forth by conservatives who want to blame sick people instead of tackling issues like access to health care and prescription drugs.

[devilgrrl]

33. I'm waiting for people to start giving NFL football players a hard time

"Don't you know that playing professional Football in the NFL can lead to an early death!"

:sarcasm:

[Lannes]

35. I saw a news report about the way the obese were being treated.

They had a hidden camera put in a department store and found the obese customers where given less service and treated more rudely by the employees than those of average weight.

[Moderator]

36. Locking

This was deliberately inflammatory, seeking to reopen a topic that had previously been locked, and the term "smoke nazis" is out of line.

-DU Moderator