I am nearly 54, and I am pissed off . What more do people need?

[Faygo Kid]

This was in response to another post. I thought it summed up my thoughts nicely. I didn't march in 2002; I did march in 1970. I thought others would take my place now. I apologize. Dammit, let the tear gas grenades fly again (help me here; I was fast before, but bad hip now), this nightmare must end! And that includes the assault om the New Deal, the Constitution and all that women have fought and striven for in the last 35 years. Damn. Well, here's the post. Too long, I know. No more business as usual.

I remember yelling at the TV, and reading the Washington Post cheerleaders (F'em) and the NYT (Hi, Judith Miller) each day in 2002, and saying, what bullshit. Anybody remember the mantra in 2002? Get Saddam. Tax cuts for the rich. No mention of Osama, or virtually anything else. Those were the two messages, and you remember, that was it. We were right, but so what?. Will the Dems get a backbone, and finally take on this damned war??? Kerry blew the air out of all of us when he said if he knew then what he knows now, he would still have voted for the war. I am Pissed, and 54 next month, and wondering why history has no meaning anymore, just because Rush, Hannity, and the rest of the Amen Corner might criticize our precious Democratic leaders. Damn.

[Booster]

1. I'm 62 and I'm right there with you. Where the Hell have all the

hippies gone? What? Are we too damn old to do it again? I don't think so. Start protesting with your fingers if your legs hurt (like mine), but, damn it, somebody has to light a fire under people and put an end to this madness. We've got way too much to lose to give up now.

[MissWaverly]

104. Another baby boomer, signs up

I read this long letter from a vet that said that he votes for Dems locally, but always votes for Republicans in national elections. What is wrong with this picture. Has the American government done 1 single thing since 2000 that we can be proud of. Let me think, threaten a woman who goes to Crawford, who has lost a son in Iraq. No, not it. Out a CIA agent, as political payback to her husband. No, not it. Deny thousands the right to vote through intimidation, purging registrations roles and electronic manipulation. No, not it. Go to war based on lies. No, not it. Ignore 52 memos that US is in danger of attack. No, not it. Give huge tax breaks to corporate backers, while overtaxing the poor and middle class. No, not it. Loot state treasuries to give to your corporate buddies to buy expensive real estate so they can have you
over to dinner. No, not it. Cheat the Indians out of their chance to
start a profitable business venture and then try to sell them life
insurance. No, not it. Accept bribes from foreign governments. No, not it.

[cry baby]

2. I am 48 and pi**ed, too.

I feel like I see things so clearly going into collapse in America. I am mad that everyone won't just open their eyes and see it...it's so clear!

I just want to scream WAKE UP PEOPLE, WE'RE IN DANGER OF LOSING AMERICA!

[ClassWarrior]

3. Join your county Dem party.

Those Dems who should get a backbone need to get smacked upside the head by fighters like you. Reality check time!

NGU.

[Why Syzygy]

6. not the answer

Dems have failed almost as much as W.

[duhneece]

103. In a 2-party system like we have

If you don't get involved with the Democratic Party, you add to the strength of the Repukes.
That 'almost' from your post signifies a huge difference, IMHO

[nolabels]

47. Visualize a "NEW GOVERNMENT"

Opps, sorry..... forgot we already have one :shrug:



THE PENTAGON:

Some of the most damning evidence surrounding the attack on the Pentagon centers about substantial and incontrovertible video and photographic evidence which insights viewers to ask crucial and essential questions. After all, the laws of physics cannot be suspended or can they?

One question many viewers ask is, “why was America and the rest of the world not shown the video footage and the photographs of the Pentagon, BEFORE the outer wall had collapsed?” Many people do not realize that the outer wall of the Pentagon did not collapse until 20 minutes after the initial impact of what we were told was a Boeing 757.
(snip)
http://www.911inplanesite.com/911synopsis.html

btw donuts have holes so why don't this Pentagon building? :donut:

[Son of California]

4. History is not the past

History is being made right now, everytime someone stands up and breaks out of their enertia and inaction and says, " I have to do something." the world changes a little.
Every drop in the bucket adds up and becomes the new piece of the puzzle.
the Revolution doesn't care how old you are, only that you are willing to really go there. To really say what has to be said.

and would it not be a testament to the basic truth that this war is unlawful and a travesty of Justice, -that people of all ages, colors, races, classes, persuasions are taking to the streets?

[marions ghost]

97. Excellent post , Son of California

Those who lived through the 60s-70s are bound to feel impatient these days--too much bad deja vu. But these times are much more repressive, more complex, and also the mainstream media is not our friend anymore. So there must be different strategies. I'm thankful for all the activism of any kind that I'm seeing against the current regime now. Especially on the net, because information dissemination is such an important stimulus to action of any kind.

I don't think it's a good idea to compare the two eras and imply that the "old days" were better, that somehow people today don't have their act together. That's divisive rhetoric. I don't listen to anyone who puts it out. I believe that this kind of whiny stuff is being used now specifically to pit liberal Boomers against GenX, which is UNproductive for us all. Everybody should just bring whatever experience they have to the situation now, and forget age, race, class -- all the categories that can be used to divide.

[Fire Walk With Me]

5. Spread a story that Bush is ordering a change to the taste of Coca-cola

Caused an uproar last time it happened, why not try it again?

sigh...

[Liberal In Texas]

7. I am of your generation and marched in peace protestes during the 'Nam

fiasco.

Yes, I also thought that the younger generation wouldn't stand for a BS war that they were going to be cannon-fodder for. But I'm just not seeing it. Some, but the campuses should be hot-beds of anti-war sentiment and they're not. Go figure.

I'm afraid things are going to get worse before they get better. I hope we still have a country left worth living in when that happens.

[Booster]

29. I'm afraid to say it, but the difference is, of course, the draft. When

young men and now women start to get drafted, they will then stand up and scream, but right now they're just to interested in Jessica and Britney to give a shit.

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. And they are also pretty much anesthesized

the Fascists have done a great job but until the draft starts and it stars affectign THEM, they won't do a thing.

And the young blods here, you guys are in many ways the exception... not the rule

[AbbyR]

106. I hate to say it, but...

...the draft might be the only thing that will get their attention. I know it certainly got MY attention when my friends started getting killed during Vietnam.

Anyone from Arkansas going to DC in September. I have some vacation time coming....

[SlowDownFast]

95. Video games and MTV...

the current college-age generation doesn't live in the reality-based world. Because of inherited wealth due to past economic boom, many are spoiled to a degree that is unprecidented in world history.

Those that do pay attention to current events are getting spoon-fed the same lies and propaganda via Corporate Media that the rest of country is getting.

It simply hasn't hurt these people yet. Only when it personally effects them to a degree that their false realities are shaken, will they realize what is happening.

Bring on the draft...

[marions ghost]

99. why should the generation in college

automatically want to run out and fight these battles, especially as they are up against even greater levels of repression and other obstacles than ever in the past?

Being spoon-fed is only part of the problem--we are all spoon-fed by the media. Blame the parents if anything, who were too busy raising kids to think where the country might be heading. But I really don't think anyone deserves blame except the abusers now in government. We all deserve better than this.

College kids have to go to college believing that they will have a chance to get ahead. It's not until they realize that the investment made in college may pay few dividends --that the bubble bursts. My niece and nephew who are in college are paying a LOT of attention to the political scene and participate wherever they can, but they also see college as their job #1, not fixing the government. They're not ready to devote a large chunk of time and energy to it, and why should they?

I don't think we should leave this job to the college kids. And I don't think we should expect this part of the struggle to play out the same way as it did in the 60's.

[yorkiemommie1]

8. 58 and pissed too

i know lots of middle aged people who feel just like us.

[Why Syzygy]

9. Cheerio!

Buck up dude. I've been feeling the same way. Have watched in horror the last five/six years. No. This is not my world.

Someone sent me this today. Does a heart good. Teeners totally fed up. They see the light. Yes. At the end of a gawed awful tunnel.
They may need a little instruction on "en mass". Doable.

~ http://tinyurl.com/bpd5s

Keep the hope.

[ThoughtCriminal]

10. I'm 47 and I've been pissed off since 1963

Not every day though.

[dweller]

11. 50 ... and that's my final answer

but i'm pissed everyday. :mad:


there's still hope. . .






dp

[HeeBGBz]

31. Great pic!

Is that recent? Like Crawford?

[dweller]

38. yes, Crawford

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4277232
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-5194958,00.html

dp

[Why Syzygy]

50. Beautiful .. n/t

[PinkyisBlue]

12. I hear you!!

I've been very angry about the state of politics and the direction our country has taken ever since "they" spent millions of our dollars trying to uncover any corruption possible about Bill Clinton (and found nothing) and then tried to impeach him on a technicality! This is just not acceptable, as far as I'm concerned. Greed and money have corrupted our system. If Democratic leaders aren't up to the job of standing up to these right-wing bullies, or if they are too entrenched in it, I really think the people need to start their own third party, the Progressive Party. How about it?

[Why Syzygy]

49. you read my mind .. n/t

[annabanana]

93. welcome to DU PinkyisBlue!

I think the Democratic Party is crusty and rusty, but I think it can be fixed. Prescription? Thousands of new, progressive, activists at the local level...

[PinkyisBlue]

108. Welcome

You're right, it would be better to fix the party we have than to start from scratch. We need to remind all those pols in Washington just who they're working for (and it's not the corporations).
Thanks for the welcome!

[madrchsod]

13. yup i`m 58 and i`m really tired of the democrats

after watching zamora get deep sixed by the democrats so they could suck off denny the fixer for a few bucks i fuck`n give up on the national and state party in illinios. zamora and his backers worked their asses off to help him ,i guess we will see if anything will change...
"you don`t need a weatherman......"

[longship]

14. I'm gonna start by recommending this thread.

I'm 57 and am utterly horrified by the lack of action by the young generation. In 1970 such actions as those of * and his minions would have had millions of students in the streets. There would have been general student strikes, signs everywhere, a large, permanent protest presense in the shadow of the White House, etc.

Maybe times have changed and we will now do things differently now. But I will say that there's one big difference. In 1970 there wasn't a day that passed that you didn't hear about protests. Now we take our protests to the Internet. Unfortunately, the Internet is a "pull" technology where people can choose to enter into the dialog, or not. Being on the street by the thousands, hundreds of thousands, or millions is a "push" technology which forces the dialog on the world, whether it wants to listen or not. Vive la difference!

So how do we take the discussion to the streets when the Internet has no streets?

[Faygo Kid]

28. Thank you, and as a Michigander, I appreciate your Conyers logo.

I have met John (native Detroiter here) so many times going back to the '70s, and frankly, we appreciated where he stood, but never thought of him as a leader (greatest sideburns of the disco era). Now, in the twilight of his life, he is demonstrating amazing courage and leadership, and we ought to say so, and nominate him accordingly for, say, a Profiles In Courage award. How, you ask, do we fight back? We have to use the Internet to drive people (like me) to marches in the streets. It is simply not enough to do it online; Gen X never marched, and the Millenials (now in college) are so clean cut I could puke. But, look at what a remarkable communications tool we have, that we didn't have in 1970! MoveOn has shown its power, and has been trashed like Richard Clarke, et al. At this point, people I know, even those that voted for Bush (shudder) say so what. Maybe we need an adjunct to MoveOn, a movement for us Boomers with them, as a separate group who can bring our knowledge, memories and power (not inconsiderable) to bear on saying no more to the madness, like we did before. Anybody know anybody at MoveOn, and not just about raising money? We are together here at DU, but the generational differences are very real, and I am one pissed off Boomer with a similarly pissed off Gen X daughter, who knows these incredibly clean cut Millenials now in college, who are looking to us for leadership, and I for one am ready to discomfit the comfortable. How can we do that?

[firefox]

45. What is wrong with them?

Kids are supposed to rebel anyway, but now that the train is clearly going in the wrong direction, you would think that youthful rebellion would be the rage, especially when the cause of stopping the train has so much support from society on the whole.

I have been pulling 50 for a while, and I have been raging against the machine for almost 5 years, both on the Internet and in real life. The country has gone to hell and the fantasy producers would have you think that if they could tweak Social Security and end abortion that America would be almost perfect.

I guess when the Medicaid cuts start killing people in Missouri, Tennessee, and elsewhere there younger relatives might think that is their future too and join the revolution in the class war that the media does not want to televise.:hide: :hide: :hide:

[yellowdogintexas]

15. Well, I am 56 and I am pissed off too.

I yelled at theTV in the 1970's and I yell at it now,(I also yell at the radio)

I am angry enough to donate money, block walk to get out the vote, go to meetings. I never bothered to do anything except vote before.

[MnFats]

16. Me, too. Sigh.....

there should be daily massive demonstrations in every large city in the country, and on every college campus. Maybe riots, if I dare say so with Ashcroft/Gonzales etc. listening in on everything.
there is a new outrage every day.
every goddamn day.

I'm 53 this month and haven't been pummeled by ill-trained cops in years.

[Faygo Kid]

17. Thanks to all. I am tired of being tired of it. Fed up is more like it.

I will promise all of you that bad hip and all, I will be in DC from Michigan in September to - well, maybe march is too strong a word - tell the Emperor he has no clothes. I know something is being organized; MoveOn? Nothing remarkable here, but people like me vote, and a LOT of those people I know have had it. REALLY had it. Wish my Mom's generation (GI) was here; they knew how to deal with these aholes. There is a rumble out there. Listen for it in 2006. Fox, Rush, Laura, Ann, Sean notwithstanding. 50+ votes. And I see a change in my peers who voted for Bush. They are pissed. Now, the Dems have to do their part. Wake up! It don't come easy.

[sintax]

18. Will you be in the streets tomorrow?

Mass sustained action is the only thing to turn this horror show around. All talk about petitions and contributions is well intentioned and certain to lead nowhere.

see ya' out there

Make big banners and regain your voice!!!

[Faygo Kid]

30. Yes. Yes. Yes. You get it.

Thank you. That is what this post is all about, and I thank you for it. Don't, by the way, underestimate what we Boomers can do. I think we are the ones now with the stake in this nation financially, and a lot of us are a-holes (well, me too, sometimes), but we DO have power, and many of us are pissed off. Like not before. I for one am tired of being manipulated by a-holes like Limbaugh, who is almost exactly my age, and a coward, and who in 1992 I ID'd as one of the most dangerous people in America, and so it has come to pass. And he is an uneducated craphead, like Sean Vanity, and here I am ready to crush either one in Jeopardy, and forgive me for going on so long, but do not underestimate us boomers who remember as kids firehoses turned on our fellow citizens, and how we crushed LBJ, who was 100 times the human being GWB is, and even Nixon, who was scum, was at least 10 times the person GWB and this administration is, and there is something happening out there, and I am part of it, and we need intergenerational support, because the Internet is not the streets, and we need to be out there on the streets. All of us.

[Why Syzygy]

54. they are terrified of the internet

Don't underestimate it.

There weren't only the firehoses (which were an atrocity), don't forget the bomb drills. Duck and cover. Be scared for your life.

That was JFK. The time to stop this bullshit is now.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

19. This 55 year old Hippie

is still pissed off. I thought it was bad when Nixon was president but I have never, in my life, seen the Faschist takeover like I see it now. What the fuck are people thinking? Everyone is so afraid of being blown up that they are willing to give up all their freedom for some sense of safety that they will never have because it is too easy to commit another terrorist act that hasn't been done before. I can think of a dozen acts I could commit that would create terror, and I'm not a terrorist. Let's face it, Al Quida won! I just flew to Seattle and the hoops they made us jump through were so silly. Millions of people taking off their shoes, like that will make a differance. You can't have a lighter cause someone might blow up their shoes! What bullshit!

Btw, I got my lighter through the checkpoint. It was easy. The whole thing is a tremendous waste of time and money.

[Faygo Kid]

33. Thanks. Is there something rumbling here?

For whatever faults we Boomers have, we stood for something, and we have been quiet for too long. Ever read the book, "Generations?" Written in about 1989. Check it out. Hell, I set off every checkpoint, because my right hip is titanium, and my left hip will get replaced in 2006, and I am too damn young for this. Al Quaeda won? Only because these aholes gave them a victory. Anyway, everyone I know on our side pines for LBJ and Nixon, over this bastard, GWB. LBJ was 100 times the Texan GWB is, and Nixon was 10 times the man GWB is, and both of them were a hell of a lot smarter than this Intelligent Design proponent. Hell, his father had cojones compared to this workout freak. But I do not underestimate him; my point is that it's time for those of us in OUR generation that are not Karl Rove or Rush Limbaugh have a responsibility here, and the ability to Just Say No. What say you, my friend?

[Daphne08]

43. I'm in my 50's and feel exactly as you do!

I'm outraged! My father fought for this country in WWII so that we would remain free and now the jackasses in Congress have given away all our freedom in the name of fighting terrorism.

At what point do we fear our own government more than we fear terrorists?

Do people NOT REALIZE what the Patriot Act is? It's an assault on our liberty and freedom! And this new Cointelpro crap? They are going to be spying on Americans... AGAIN. Those of us who are old enough remember!

And this war is creating terrorists who will hate America for generations to come. It's a disaster.

WHY can't people see all this? I place a lot of the blame on the corporate media!

[Faygo Kid]

61. Thank you. My Mom was the first in the nation. . .

My Mom was the first woman to win the War Production Board award, and Eleanor Roosevelt came to Detroit to give it to her, and it was a big story. I so totally agree with you, and appreciate your comments. I have done some major historical things, and would like to share them, but like you, it is overwhelming to try to type this out. I appreciate your passion, and share your frustation. I think our generation had better fight back against our peers. Now.

[Why Syzygy]

58. Isn't it though

A god-damn laughable offense to thinking people.

I haven't been on a plane since 2001. But I shed tears watching my son have to go through that total freaking BULLSHIT. Take off your shoes to board a plane? It almost makes one think that the shoe trick was a set up to screw decent law abiding citizens. Or that someone is so not paying attention to reality. Either way, I just don't see how this is acceptable.

[firefox]

66. What happens when people implant bombs

Cocaine travels in balloon in people's stomachs when they are mules in the cocaine trade. What happens when people can get explosives in their stomach and it starts everyone getting x rays?

With all the big boobs brought about by popular demand, what will they say when a boob bomb blows up a plane? The drug warriors that moved to Homeland Security would probably use their drug warrior training and call for the removal of all boobs by anyone wanting to fly.

[rwenos]

20. Age 52 - Remember KSAN Radio?

They had a motto, they read it at the end of the news, until 78 or so, when the station was sold and changed format to C&W.

"If you don't like the news, go out and make some of your own."

Gonna try that every day.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

21. 56, more pissed off than ever; marched 35 years ago, will do it again.

But when I go to political rallies these days, it seems like most of the participants are old farts like me. Where are the kids? Did we march and protest then only because we or our friends were being drafted? Will it take a new draft to get the kids into the streets with us this time?

[wli]

22. I'm 30 and I've been pissed off since before I can remember

I grew up watching the whole Falklands BS and the Iran Hostage crisis and they were staged so blatantly they failed to even convince a 4-year-old.

[Craig3410]

23. I'm 18 and f***ing pissed.

Just to let you know us young'uns hate this war and president, too.

:hi:

[marions ghost]

102. thanks

:applause: a lot of the younger generation see what's going on.

[lonestarnot]

24. Old and Pissed!

More than pissed! I spend my entire life pissed these days and it's getting old. I try to take a break but it doesn't work! The only thing that makes me laugh is my son with the fart machine, trying to get me off DU!

[Faygo Kid]

34. Don't let it get old. Maybe we need to recognize generational differences

Maybe there is power here. Maybe there is a story you can tell that son with the fart machine (which is pretty funny, I must admit).

[lonestarnot]

78. LOL!

[finecraft]

25. I am 48 and spend my evenings making bumper stickers to piss freepers off

That is how much this administrations actions have pissed me off! I said I would never grow up to be my mother....she knitted and crocheted....I make politically inflammatory bumper stickers! Look what they have done to me! My husband is 63 and his favorite t-shirt is one I made him that has my sig line pic on it! When did the Amen Corner become "mainstream", and quit being referred to as what they really are...INSANE! There was a time that people actually said that about them and nobody felt bad about it, or had to seriously debate whether or not their "voice needed to be heard" because everyone knew they were CRAZY! Crazy people talking stupid shit, being taken seriously by close to 50% of our citizens, is not where I thought our country would be when I was 48. Sheesh!

[Faygo Kid]

36. We can do this. Your crochet is a lonely thing, but we are together.

I know so many of my generation - rich, poor, black, white, male, female - who are not ID'd as part of the "Christian" right, or the rich lobbyists, who are simply and thoroughly fed up. The Xers and the Millenials, and the new unnamed generation now being born, need our leadership. Wish I could crochet, but wish even more that we could stop this insanity together, because our parents supported the New Deal, beat Hitler, built a spoiled life for us, and now it is our turn.

[Why Syzygy]

63. Indigo Children

that's what the very young are called. When and where did "boomer" come into play? Don't remember. Was that a whole lifetime thing?

The indigos have "sight". They sure do see that things are not right. It is so beyond "elections". It's about a new creation.

I hope we live long enough to experience that. I stick around for the wtf ever happened value.


Hey.. this thread has me thinking. Do you think we should go for an old hippies group? Is that too age-ist? LOL! Come on. Let's do it.

[Dylan Garcia]

26. 48 and leaving for Crawford Wednesday

ONWARD!

[Faygo Kid]

37. Peace, love and rock and roll, my friend.

Best wishes, and it's time. It's time for a mighty generational roar.

[sandnsea]

27. Troops Reduced By August 2005

Why didn't you pick up on that part of what he said that day instead of the distortion of the presidential authority answer?

They distort, we multiply and spread the lie.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52839-2004Aug9.html

[Faygo Kid]

39. Louder. That's what it's all about. F the specifics.

[charlie]

41. Distortion. Lie.

Bullshit. Kerry made it real clear in his IWR vote floor speech that discovery of Saddam's WMD capabilities was the sole legitimate reason to authorize the resolution. To say two years later he wouldn't have changed his vote if he knew WMD didn't exist in Iraq was a disappointment to a lot of people, and your partisan boosterism can't twist that feeling of letdown into some sort of useful idiocy for the rightwing. Reduction of troops means little if you indicate you'll first let them be deployed for a pointless cause.

[sandnsea]

48. It's not what he said

Read the article. It's what Bush & Cheney said he said. But it IS NOT what HE said.

[charlie]

52. You read the article

Direct quote:

Friday, Bush challenged Kerry to answer whether he would support the war "knowing what we know now" about the failure to find weapons of mass destruction that U.S. and British officials were certain were there.

In response, Kerry said: "Yes, I would have voted for the authority. I believe it was the right authority for a president to have."

It's the right authority for the president to have, nevermind that I (in the hypothetical presented) know it's a snipehunt. It undercut his reasoning in his floor speech, which many grudgingly accepted as legitimate, though they may have not liked it. You may not approve of their disappointment, but you have no business casting it as willfully abetting the Republicans. Kerry stepped in it with that pronouncement.

[sandnsea]

57. The whole quote

Which is perfectly consistent with his floor speech and every other statement he's made on Saddam and the war.

"I voted to hold Saddam Hussein accountable, because had I been president, I would have wanted that authority, because that was the way to enforce the U.N. resolutions and be tough with the prospect of his development of weapons of mass destruction....Now, might we have wound up going to war with Saddam Hussein? You bet we might have—after we exhausted those remedies and found that he wasn't complying, and so on and so forth. But not in a way that provides, you know, 90 percent of the casualties are American, and almost all of the cost."

[charlie]

64. That's a different quote

He's still talking about the prospect of Saddam having WMD. This is his response to his hypothetical vote should he know that the WMD didn't exist.

"I'll answer it directly. Yes, I would have voted for the authority. I believe it is the right authority for a president to have but I would have used that authority effectively."

http://www.unknownnews.net/040810kerrybewary.html

[sandnsea]

76. It's the same quote

It's just the WHOLE quote.

[charlie]

80. No, it's not

Mine was from a question posed by a reporter at the Grand Canyon, your's is from a speech at a conference in DC, at an earlier date. There was nothing untruthful in the OP's remarks about the statement, so save your derision for people who are actually your enemies.

[sandnsea]

86. Yeah, that was the day before

Here's the Grand Canyon quote. Not much different though, which is why I got them mixed up. Considering the purpose was to get Kerry to say no, so they could really slam the flip-flopper label on him, it was the right answer. Despite the fact that everybody said they wouldn't let our candidate be "Gored" last year, despite knowing all the tricks they play, every time they did it, a large chunk of the Democratic Party helped. But they rarely helped spread the useful quotes, like starting withdrawal by August 2005. And it pretty much stays the same. Unless you support winning the war, like Hackett, but call Bush a chickenhawk. Then not supporting withdrawal doesn't matter.

QUESTION (8/9/04): The president last week challenged you to answer yes or no to the question of whether if, knowing what you know now, you would still have voted to go to war? Are you going to take that challenge up?
KERRY: I’m ready for any challenge, and I'll answer it directly. Yes, I would have voted for the authority. I believe it is the right authority for a president to have, but I would have used that authority, as I have said throughout this campaign, effectively. I would have done this very differently from the way President Bush has. And my question to President Bush is, Why did he rush to war without a plan to win the peace? Why did he rush to war on faulty intelligence and not do the hard work necessary to give America the truth? Why did he mislead America about how he would go to war? Why has he not brought other countries to the table in order to support American troops in the way that we deserve and relieve a pressure from the American people?

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh092504.html

[charlie]

88. Aw, fer cryin' out loud

He didn't say it, you're spreading lies. Wait, yeah he did, but you're still to blame for his getting Gored. Hopeless.

The correct answer was "I won't entertain that hypothetical." Or, "not likely." Or even, "no." Those would have at least been consistent and they still would have Gored him anyway (even Somersby is perplexed by his answer). Defending him from flip-flop charges would be easier.

But all that is beside the point. The point is you swooping in at the merest hint of Kerry criticism and declaring DU a haven for rightwing dupes. It's obvious nothing will deter you, so go right ahead, hold that notion tight, have a nice cup of tea and you'll feel fresh as a daisy when the sun comes up.

[sandnsea]

89. He didn't

"he would still have voted for the war"

He did not say he would have voted for the war. I posted a quote the day before the Grand Canyon, in mistake. Then posted the correct one.

They both say the same thing. The thing he had said for two years. Exactly what he said on the floor of the Senate. That was the authority he thought a President should have to deal with Saddam.

I'm not the one blaming Kerry for the anti-war movement not being able to construct a strategy to end the war. If we were anywhere near getting out of this war, I wouldn't care about people distorting the war vote or Kerry's words or anybody else's vote or words. But we aren't anywhere near getting out. It's insanity, complete and total insanity, for people to rally behind Hackett who quite clearly supports winning the war; but denigrate people who actually have plans to end the war, because they "voted for the war". Or, support people who call for withdrawal but whose plans are no different than what Clark & Kerry have been proposing since 2002, plans for success. All this stupid bickering and blaming over words.

And people keep dying.

[Celebration]

90. EXACTLY

You are completely correct. Kerry's vote was not for war but for authorization. There is a huge difference. I can understand the Freepers getting this mixed up (accidentally on purpose!!), but let's all try to keep the facts straight.

[Why Syzygy]

71. wow

I feel like I wandered into the wizard of oz. All that spinning.

[Faygo Kid]

53. I love it, and thanks.

I love that passion. I have a bumper sticker on my car that says, "Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Kerry." I think he would have been an excellent president. No, I do not believe our troops were deployed for a pointless cause. I believe they were deployed for a very specific cause all right: a dishonest, neocon, false, insane but very calculated, not pointless in their view, cause. And Kerry, my peer in age, got smeared, and with 30 years in PR and a law degree for 20, it broke my ass. So bring it. It breaks my heart that John Kerry is not president. So, my heart was broken too. Am I your enemy?

[charlie]

55. Who, me?

No, I'm not your enemy. That post wasn't in response to yours.

[HeeBGBz]

32. Pissed 50

Tired of feeling this way too.

[Faygo Kid]

40. Bless you. I think this is just starting.

To not recognize the generational differences, and the power that diversity brings, may have weakened us for too long. As Seger said, I reminiscence about the days of old. Let's bring that forward.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Trust me pissed off and we are not gonna take it any more

Look we all have donme much but it is not doing much, so time for people to REREAD the Declaration of Independence, for there is your answer... and we need to do that

[vanboggie]

42. I'm 55 - late blooming protester

I didn't march in the sixties, but I've been actively protesting, donating, emailing like crazy, callling, informing everyone I can find, and donating since 2000. I refuse to be a lemming.

[Castilleja]

44. I swear, sometimes I think the only thing that will

make people see, is if a decree goes out that everyone in the country must have a barcode tattooed onto their forehead. I am pretty firmly convinced that things must be allowed to go very wrong for most people to look up from their daily lives and realize what they have allowed to happen. Hopefully, enough will wake up before that. It's like mass brainwashing or something.....

[Nite Owl]

46. With you here

being older sure makes those rallies and walking streets harder but I'll be damned if it will stop me. We had a rall here in NY for the threatened veto of the EC bill by Pataki this week. Good turnout and the the best news was all the young people there. Lots of grey hair but the young men and woman were there too in the hot sun chanting with us. He vetoed the bill that afternoon but it sure gave me hope that our children will be there to follow us. My sons joke with me about my ending up in jail but they are proud too that I am fighting and they know it is for them. The country has been quiet for so long, it is up to us to teach them how, to be the example so they will never let America die.

[mourningafter78]

60. Failure to Communicate

I'm 26 years old and one of the problems I've seen in the last
15 years is failure to communicate what is happening to our
children(I'm a father of a 5 year old)The 90's rebelion
unfortunetly was an "I don't give a shit" attitude. 
This carried over and people in my generation don't belive in
anything, or at the very least stand up for what they believe.
 We may get a flood of info from bands such as Green Day,
Audioslave, Rage Against the Machine and Corporate Avenger,
but most feel disconnected from what is going on.  The best
way to reach them is to go up to them and explane/show them
whats going on and how it affects them.  A good example of
this is a job I used to work at.  One of my co-workers was 18
and didn't really care what was going on.  I figured it was
time to give him a brief education, so I brought in a copy of
that draft bill that's sitting in congress. I think its HR 168
or something like that, the one that has mandatory services
for everyone ages 18-25.  I showed him a copy of that and he
freaked out.  He realized that this DOES affect him.

What all this means is this.  Instead of complaining about how
no one is marching or taking an active role why don't you go
out to them and make them feel like their a part of something
and they need to take an active role.  The sad part is the
Repukes did that in the early 90's and it worked for them. 
The older generation may not be able to do the marches
themselves, but the can show this generation what to do.  Take
it upon yourselves to show them, every movement needs a leader
to step up and show the way.

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. First off welcome to DU

second I have tried doing exactly that and I think the I don't give a shit attitude is far deeper...

Why do I say this? I have shown this to kids your age.... the same draft bill... their response, it is not in the news, so it's not happening... of course they don't watch the news. I am hoping that Current helps to bridge that divide.

Oh and welcome to DU... don't be a stranger, we need to build that damn bridge

[mourningafter78]

69. Options

If showing them the bill doesn't help, show them the aftermath. My dad told me enough stories about what he went through in Vietnam to understand what our soliers go through. If you know anyone who was there have them show the kids the scars and tell them what happened. Show them what their future is. It's a gruesome way of doing it, but it works.

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. Their father, a Vietnam War vet spoke to them

I spoke to them, (vet from antoher country) and my husband spoke to them, he is a recently retired US Navy Chief... but their father served in Nam... heck these kids are navy brats

That is why I say that it is deeper.

Some kids (nothing personal I am 39 going on 40), do get it, you are the future, but many more don't... it is this who gives a shit attitude that is pervasive all over the teevee and the media... as well as the general culture... I fear it will not truly change until it affects more people, but that is me... and at one time I believed I could change the world fo the better, I still do... I just don't expect anybody to do it wtih me, a tad jaded by now... but I will welcome anybody who does.

So again, WELCOME...

[Faygo Kid]

68. You both get it. You really do.

I remember being 26; hell, my daughter is 28. I appreciate both your comments, and the fact that some generations (X, Millenial) ought to start NOW holding us responsible for this reprehensible administration. There will never be a payback like you are about to see against GWB, and my peer, him, Limbaugh, Rove, Condi. Oh, by the way, Bill O'Reilly can kiss it too. Work with me, will you?

[mourningafter78]

73. Sure thing

would be a pleasure to. everything starts somewhere.

[Rainscents]

72. Mourningafter78... Welcome to DU!!!

You have it right... It is parents who should get involve with their children's and tell them, what's happening to this world. I talk to my grown children's all the times about politics and they're involve now big time! We must all talk to our children's teach them how to research the news and informations. I also try really hard talking to lot of young adults whenever I'm at grocery shopping, or any public place and most of the time, they really don't mind me talking to them, they really do listen.

[Why Syzygy]

75. Thank You.

for your efforts to save the planet. I believe in our future.

[Rainscents]

81. I always tell my story about Korean War... I was a result of that war

and it wasn't pretty... I tell people the horror strories, it make anyone puke! My father was American and my mother was a Korean and being mix child, I was treated badly by everyone.

[Why Syzygy]

82. not any more

that's just not right. You know it. Since you've found DU, I would hope you've found friends who support you. We're here. All together.

[Rainscents]

84. I know things has changed for better now, which is good thing.

I am very glad for DU... This is the place where I can relate to! You are so kind!:-)

[Nite Owl]

105. But a lot of young people

do care and they are there and they are involved. Maybe it's where I live and not where you are but there are young people that do care and are well informed. We have a young dem leader that is still in high school and can get up there and debate circles around any elected official, they are at our meetings and we talk to them at home. Part of the problem is not that they don't care it's that they are a very overworked group. They go to college and work and there isn't a lot of time left to go places. A lot more know what is going on than you might think.

[Dylan Garcia]

51. Join the other old farts on the PEACE TRAIN to DC !

http://www.newdemocracyrising.com/index.asp

[Faygo Kid]

56. Don't forget the Love Train

The O'Jays. Wow, what a tune, for any generation. Us old farts may yet be the ones who lead the way to bring down our more healthy than should be allowed President. Oooh baby, it's a Wild World.

[Rainscents]

65. Is there peace train from Seattle to DC? I would love to go!

I Marched in DC with my parents in early 70's (I was 14) to end WAR and I would love to do it again!

[Historic NY]

67. I'm staring 50 in the eye & getting more & more P.O. too.

I was a McGovern supporter even thou I was too young to vote, I only swung that way after one of my hero's RFK took a bullet for his country. I was never a radical in deed but supported the Democratic Party from the time I first pulled the lever at 18. Hell, I've worked in L.E. for almost 31 yrs. I am finding my myself becoming more & more radical in thinking, perhaps as a result of wanting my country back. I've never been on the protest line physically but I've supported it in spirit, because dissent creates a balance that is necessary in a democracy. Since the 2000 selection election I have been increasingly become more & more willing to do anything and say anything to put my country back on track. Most people don't believe there are people in L.E. that support them in the struggle but I would point to the N.Y. City protests as a fair example. Us older farts probably need to get our butts in gear and get out in public to secure our country from it present course of tyranny.

[Faygo Kid]

74. Wow. Best response I have ever had.

If you were a woman, I could kiss you. But, a hug anyway. You're one of those Boomer/Xers on the median, but the hell with that. Man, you are brilliant (I don't throw that around; Mensa here). I want my country back, too, and my heart is broken, as a lawyer historian, but cheered by your excellent response. I think we have to do it again, like we did at 19, to stop the insanity. How do we do it? Well, together is a start.

[Why Syzygy]

77. that's the thing though!

They have stacked the deck!

A PEACE MARCH? THEY say, oh stand over here behind a fence in the "freedom of speech" area.

Pelt the stolen president's limo during his inaguration? Oh speed up and don't even think about walking through the mob who hates your guts.

Freedom marchers? The S.S. might run over your ass.

They have changed the rules. It's time for us to change ours and get about the business of ousting traitors.

Peace.

[mourningafter78]

79. How do you like your tea?

This is a question I ask everyone who complain about our government. Something needs to get done to attract people attention to the problem. A few hundred years ago there was a problem that people saw but wouldn't do anything about(kinda like today) so few people decided to have a party to make it known. In came the Boston Tea Party. We need a tea party today to wake people up. Preferably one that dumps it on the white house lawn(let's see fox news NOT cover that one).

BTW how many of you know the average life span of a democracy? The answer will surprise you. Only 200 years, sounds like it's time fora change.

[Faygo Kid]

83. Earl Grey. Hot.

Yes, it's as Picard would order it. But my friend, you are completely right about what we need to do. I am glad you are on our side.

[CelticWinter]

107. Hi kid and thanks everyone for welcoming

my son to the DU :)

[jillan]

85. I am SOOOO mad!

I look at these pictures of Iraqi children with their eyes bloodied, hands burned off.

I look at the faces of the families that have lost a loved one.

Cindy Sheehan being forced to walk in the weeds. The fact that she even has to go to such extremes to talk to the pResident, whose salary is being paid by her tax dollars.

2 stolen elections.

The money spent for this LIE. The prices at the gas pump. Benefits being taken away, the numbers of soldiers that have lost their lives.
And I am constantly bombarded by commercials for prescription drugs, and to join the army.

DSM, Treasongate. Sibel Edmonds; Bunny Greenhouse.

The weird weather caused by global warming, that we don't have.

Limbaugh still has a job, and people still listen to him.
And life is fine, because our government is anti-abortion and anti-gay.


I am 49. and I never knew what hate felt like, until now.

And it hurts me even more to know that if the man whose picture I have in my signature line was in the WH, none of this would even be happening.

[I_Make_Mistakes]

87. I am po'ed too

I was raised pretty apolitical in a complete Repug area. The point, I was Repug without knowing it. Anyways, I can't remember how I found DU, but I thought I was a radical, to even speak up. Then, I thought this was a young person's (supposed to be reactionary) site.

Thanks everyone. I am 45, and so proud to be apart of this new revolution. I was too young and into gymnastics during the 70's to really get what was going on, but, I feel it in the air. It is coming, and coming big.

Check out the fashions in the stores. There will be a new guard defending the castle, the 70's crowd will be at the helm.

The RR has taken charge because of the older folks, but they are passing and with the Medicare changes at a faster rate. They are not bad people, but, they lived in a time, where trust the gov't meant a lot more than today.

We have to figure out a way to reach out without alienating those we are trying to recruit. I was a late bloomer to the political scene, and not receptive to what I perceived as radicals. Now, I feel that I am too radical in my conversations (new converts tend to be over zealous) and need to practice patience and wisdom.

I am truly feeling positive for the first time in a long time. It's time for some old fashioned love-ins etc.

[Faygo Kid]

92. Yep. Love ins and more.

Time to hitch it up and be the Boomers we were meant to be, not the Boomers that Rush has defined us as. I would have beat his butt on the playground, but maybe that is what created the rich wimp.

[Q]

91. Things have changed since we marched and protested...

...one of the BIGGEST changes being that there are 'elements' within OUR OWN PARTY that want to see an end to the NEW DEAL and everything that goes with it.

I also thought that this generation would take up where we left off. But that didn't happen.

In fact...the opposite happened. Those groups recently out protesting for peace and women's rights recieved a lot of SCORN from many DUers...who accused them the vilest of things...including being connected with 'commies' or radicals that they didn't want to be 'associated with'. How's that for appreciation?

Many Democrats DO have a 'backbone'. They fight hard every day FOR THE PEOPLE.

Unfortunately...they have been neutralized and marginalized by the New Democrats that have TAKEN control of the party. They used the Clinton's to get inside the party and weaken our resolve and agenda from within. Many Dems will scoff at this idea. But take a look at what the party has become since they began 'tinkering' with the agenda since the 80s.

The Democratic party went from 40 years of dominating both houses to becoming practically irrelevant and impotent. We can expect more losses in 2006 and 2008 if the New Democrats have their way.

[Faygo Kid]

94. You are right. Period.

Nancy Pelosi, or Harry Truman? Harry Reid, or FDR? The Dems ought to be crushing these insane neocons, but they are so inside the beltway, they have no idea what is happening out here. And out here is where the anger is.

[Q]

98. I guess what I'm trying to say is that some of these 'neocons'...

...call themselves Democrats. THEY want to see the New Deal gone as much as the GOPers. THEY are quite willing to send Americans to kill and die in Iraq knowing that a lie put them there.

The problem we face is that we have to CLEAN UP OUR OWN HOUSE before we can presume to help this nation fight this generation's battle with fascism.

And yes...no one likes to hear the words fascist and American in the same sentence. But what else could it be called when the 2000 election looked more like a coup? What else describes the partnership between government and corporations...using the military (and church) to benefit themselves instead of the people?

There is a reason why the Democratic party has no strong progressive leadership. It's not just the corporate media or the Bushie Republicans that smear and character assassinate ANY populist or progressive politician that attracts millions of voters by touting the 'old' Democratic agenda of a 'party of the people'. We have 'conservative' (d)emocrats within our own party helping the Bush agenda to succeed.

We can't speak as one voice against illegal wars or in support of worker's/women's rights as long as there are corporate-backed shills in our own party pretending to be Democrats and trying to pull us in the other direction.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

96. Nearly 54 too, in November and I'm pissed off, and have been for

3 years now.

I was pissed off when Bush didn't have the intergrity to want a full recount. I was pissed off when after 9/11, and the Taliban offered Bin Laden, their offer wasn't taken up, and we went into Afghanistan. I was pissed off when I woke up and heard about the Afghan gas and oil pipeline, and I was pissed off knowing Bush's war drums to invade Iraq were BS. I was horrified and pissed off to find out that our soldiers by following orders, were using napalm. Making war criminals out of them. I was pissed off when I read the terms of the UN resolution giving the US control without real supervision, Iraq's assets (knowing that money would disappear), and at the same pissed off, because the then recent award of damages to ex-POWs in the first Gulf War was not honored by our government. I was pissed off when Bush signed an Executive Order letting all contractors off the hook for liability in Iraq, and I was pissed off the the reasons for the war kept getting being morphed. I am more than pissed that they slaughtered innocent people in my name for Lies upon lies upon lies upon lies.


I am also pissed off because at some point..right after the invasion of Afghanistan I started to suspect either LIHOP or MIHOP and why didn't Bush want an investigation and with tremendous pressure finally created an "Independent" Commission, and yet most of the people on that panel had vested interests, and I knew they would keep to the "official" fairytale. I am pissed off because the election was stolen again and John Kerry rolled over for his fellow bonesman. I am pissed that we have been losing our liberties and that newspeak is being used to cajole the masses...Clear Skies, New Freedom, Leave No Child....and they buy it! Lies lies lies!!! I am pissed off because MSM is in the pocket of big biz and this sociopathic administration, and I am pissed of the most because

The majority of our population are baby boomers, and we lived through the lies of Vietnam, lived through the lies of Watergate and lived through the lies of Iran-Contra, and they should know better!!!

Now this has been very difficult for me and I try never to hate, and all I can do is that hope Karma will bite them on their collective asses and they all wind up at Gitmo, Barney's song being played 24/7 and key thrown away.

Big sigh.....

[welshTerrier2]

100. interesting quote

"Correction does much, but encouragement does more." - Goethe

Perhaps, in the end, the saddest thing will be that the very assholes who started this insane war will end it solely for political reasons and they will reap the rewards for setting a new course ...

and those of us who understand that Iraq has been a colossal injustice will not have been represented by those we supported to do so ...

[FreeStateDemocrat]

101. Your right Kerry's endorement of war at Grand Canyon ended his 2004 run