As Far As The Religious Right Wing Is Concerned It Was ALL About THIS DAY!

[DistressedAmerican]

I have seen people here argue that the Republicans will never overturn Roe vs. Wade. They argue that it would lose them one of their core issues. These people are dead wrong.

PLEASE EVERYONE understand one thing. The last 4 decades have been a slow and steady plan to bring us to this day. The slow and steady infiltration of all three branched of the federal government were the means to THIS END.

They are and will continue to make EVERY change that they can ram through while their tenuous grip on power lasts. That means on ALL fronts and issues.

There is no restraint. There is none of the usual Democratic style thinking about holding power for a long time. They want to establish laws! Laws is what they want. That is the point of getting power in the first place.

Do not be fooled by the usual political calculations where these extremists are concerned. Right now the religious right is estimated to be within 5 and 10 percent of the American population. They have achieved a disproportionate amount of power by joining forces with the warmongering neocons. However they KNOW that this grip on power will not last. It CAN'T. Simple math.

It is a temporary situation. They are well aware of that. As such, they will create as much radical right change in law and lifestyle that they can in the short time they are large and in charge. It will be decades before they achieve anything like this aberration again. They WILL use it!

Just for the record, abortion it the brass ring for these people. Once Roe is overturned, it will take us decades to shift the make-up of the court enough to get that womens' right back.

Do not believe the old repug/current Democratic political calculation this time. It is a different world and reelection is not these people's goal.

They have gotten elected. That was the means. All of the legislation and court ruling are the end...

[HockeyMom]

1. Overturning Roe (and Griswold) is just the first step

They KNOW that that will only put the issue back in the States court and that will only achieve their goal (total ban on abortion/birth control) in just a couple of states.

So the next step will be passing FEDERAL laws to take precedence over state laws. You can see that right now. FEDERAL laws to ban PBA, Parental Notification/Consent, taking minors out of state, waiting periods, Connor Peterson law (from CONCEPTION), etc. Many states do not have these laws on the books and will not pass them, so they are at temping to overrule states rights and impose their views on the unwilling people of those states - ergo the ENTIRE country.

We need to see that this goes beyond just a woman's right to choose. This also extends to other rights as well, i.e, gay rights (DOMA), or any other issue they want to impose on the entire country.

[Cats Against Frist]

2. Money is the reason people want power

and laws toward making more money and more resources is why people want power. I honestly believe the fundies are chattel -- if you look at the Strauss thing, it makes perfect sense -- the core 'muricans and the Religious Right -- both large in number, self-righteousness and moral indignance, are the perfect group of "manipulatees," as it were, the most encased in a worldview that differs from other Western nations -- an infantile, narrow and stunted worldview that both rely on conservative social institutions as the yardstick of humankind -- the supremacy of the individual family home, the patriarch at the head of that family, as well as all other institutions: the business, the army, the government, consumerism and production, concentration of wealth -- and/or a view of existence that is so fucking whacked out that people don't even have working minds in relation to modernity, democracy, egalitarianism, etc. -- which are threats to conservative social institutions.

Abortion and birth control are the biggest threat. NOT because of "dead babies," and not because of religious ideological purity (or how could one explain either their refusal to address what capitalism does to "traditional values," OR their reluctance to support children, once they're born), but because of the emancipation of women, as a result. With the emancipation of women, the concept of the individual family home is weakened: the patriarch loses dominance -- and worse, under other modern institutions is forced to share supremacy with other men and other women -- in the form of the commune, or the community (this is why Santorum hates "the villiage,"). Emancipation of women means that women don't have to "marry up," for societal legitimacy -- which means that there are fewer "individual family homes."

The "individual family home," as written, by Engels, is the driving unit of consumerism -- the smallest unit at which the most individual things can be sought, while preserving a social unit that preserves patriarchy. The value set that has been attached to the psychological space of the "individual family home," and its relationships to other "individual family homes," is a complex value set that includes cultural supremacy, nationalism, consumerism, authoritarianism, production, envy, jealousy, competition, racism (in respect to other ethnicities who tend to have larger proportions of either extended family homes, or single-family homes), social darwinism -- and many other things that are ingrained in most of us, from day one. This kind of psychological manipulation is more necessary to continue patriarchal supremacy and consumerism than overt messages or commercial television (which is its number two way of establishing this cherished order).

It protects against the collective, the tribe, the co-op, the community, the commune, the woman-headed household, gay households, etc., where the male shares supremacy with other males, and other women, or the male is rendered inferior by his lack of a presence in the individual family home.

Anyway, I'm not sure why this rant -- but I just wanted to point out the amazing complexities. I think it's hard to decide exactly what it is that they want to do -- just remember three things that are important to conservatives: supremacy, supremacy, supremacy. Supremacy of the nation, supremacy of capital, and supremacy of the conservative social institution. The religious right, and religion figure in, in a totally different way -- as numbers, as means. To the end that abortion meets the above three supremacies, that's how they'll really treat it -- no matter who is in charge. IF they don't overturn Roe v. Wade, it will not be because they wish to continue using it as a wedge issue (though that will be a bonus), it will be because of some characteristic of women's emancipation that is favorable to the supremacies. I think it's still too early to tell.

[wli]

3. excellent analysis, thank you

[bobbieinok]

4. agree that fundies have been bought by the controllers of the republican

party

many here think the religious wrong took over the party....I have thought for a long time that the corporations, etc, that control the party knew that their agenda would keep them permanently a minority party

I think that they bought with money or power or whatever the leaders of the religious wrong (Robertson, Falwell, Dobson, etc) and the leaders then preached anti abortion and anti gays and whatever else is necessary to get the many middle and lower middle class members of conservative churches to vote against their economic and every other best interest

people like Scaife and Viguerie and others who jump started the RW take over of the republican party were not conservative protestant christians (were some conservative Catholics??)

[emdee]

5. I don't believe they want to do away with abortion....

Republicans utilize abortion just as much as any other group of people, I have no doubt. They do, however, want to make every aspect of life difficult for the poor. The rich will not have a problem with access to abortion under Republican Rule.

They use the issue to gain votes by making the blind believe they will abolish abortion. In '04 they also gained votes by stating that Bush would change the constitution to make marriage between a man and a woman. They have done nothing on either issue after the votes were gotten.

They may change abortion just enough to hurt the poor because, for some reason, they live to hurt the poor. But, other than that they won't change it, imo.

All Americans are not equal in the eyes of the Reps. They can judge everyone else while they, themselves, do the same things.

emdee

[DefenseLawyer]

6. I think you are right about Fundamentalist "foot soldiers"

but not their "generals". I think it is true that the people who are drawn to and support the fundie political movement are for the most part sincere in wanting abortion outlawed. But, when you talk to these people, many of them are not otherwise politically engaged. Abortion is their issue, their raison d'etre; they are not moved to action by tax policy or trade policy or even the war. Political leaders rely upon that sincerity to keep them engaged, i.e. voting Republican and writing checks, but their point of view is political power, and really they could care less about the issue. I think we have seen a calculated use of the abortion issue to rally the fundamentalists in a way that no other issue can or will. You watch, they aren't going to kill the goose that laid the golden campaign contribution.