Need a little help. Young man wanting to enlist in Air Force.......

[Dover]

and is convinced he'll be trained for several years, and won't likely go to Iraq.

He's a very young man with high hopes of learning to pilot planes and eventually build his own private airport. Don't want to step on his dreams but would like to inform him about what to realistically expect if he enlists.

I'm wondering if there are any DU members with some firsthand info on what the training process, etc. is like, after one signs on the dotted line.

I also recall reading an article just the other day that they are, in fact, sending some Air Force recruits over to Iraq (for non-pilot activities) and would appreciate reading that again and copying it for him if anyone can point me to it (couldn't locate it with a search).

Many thanks!

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. They promised filight school as an enlisted man?

If they did they'd better put it in writing for pilots in the US Air Force ARE officers, not enlisted troops./

There is more, if they promise hin the moon and it ain't in the contract they can do whatever they want with him. Oh he also fails from any AIT that they promised, guess what your ass belongs to them...

You should also point out that "excess AF personnel" is now in the process of being transfered to the Army and that the AF DOES have boots on the ground in Iraq

I think I have covered the major bases here

[uppityperson]

5. All this.

I was going to say what nadin said but she said it first.

Get it in writing because otherwise it means less than nothing. They are sending them to Iraq. There is always Iran or N.Korea or some other place that will need liberating by then.

They may tell him he will get training for piloting and to lead to his airport dreams, but the chances of this happening are very very very small and they will lie to get him signed up. Not mislead but lie. He will probably not get any training to help his future plans, would be better off going to pilot school or getting a college degree first.

[The Doctor.]

17. With this many of us on the same page we can only hope for one thing...

That this young man will trust Dover.

[lonestarnot]

24. Are you kidding me... they never keep their fucking promises! Written or

otherwise!

[Eloriel]

31. The no enlisted pilots point needs to be driven home to the max

He canNOT become a pilot without having a degree. In fact, I am prettty sure he can't become an officer without a degree. If I'm not mistaken (and please correct me someone if I am), the last time they were handing out "battlefield commissions" was in Vietnam.

[NaturalHigh]

33. Absolutely true.

All Air Force officers must have at least a bachelor's degree.

[ThomWV]

2. Why Shouldn't He Enlist?

To the best of my knowledge it has not become dishonorable for one to volunteer to serve their country.

No reason I know to try to dissuade him from enlist hing. The only advice I'd give him is to give it a lot of thought before he signs on the dotted line - because its his decision and no one else's but it will effect many people. Then if he chooses to serve to do his duty and keep his head down. Its exactly what I told to the last young guy I talked to who was enlisting - about 2 weeks ago.

[Dover]

I didn't say he shouldn't enlist. I simply want him to have all the info

so that he goes into it with eyes wide open. The recruiters are probably not the best source for getting a balanced view of what to expect, would you agree?

I'm asking for that information here, not opinions on whether or not he should enlist.

[uppityperson]

11. Enlistment information and options- good website link here

http://www.objector.org/before-you-enlist.html
Edited to add- they have a bunch of information about your questions.

[Dover]

20. Thanks! Yes, I'd like to provide him with viable options.

and this site looks like it does that.

[uppityperson]

22. These guys can give other websites too

http://www.teenpeace.org/
Even if he's not a teen, they are actively involved with figuring out non-military options. Good luck, feel free to pm me if you would like more links, info.

[Eloriel]

30. Here's one VERY good reason NO ONE should enlist right now

Doing so supports an immoral, unethical, unjust and unjustifiable war of aggression against a sovereign nation AND, to a lesser extent, the people that lied to us into that war (tho most DUers were never fooled).

Doing so just may very well help PROLONG that war. Doing so just might help promote the NEXT war -- likely a nooklear one, already slated for Iran.

Doing so puts one's life at risk for an irredeemable lie, no matter what service is chosen (and with some services the risk is higher).

I would as a matter of conscience advise ANY young person NOT to do it. Did I say "advise"? Make that BEG. I would BEG any young person not to enlist in any service until we are no longer engaged in any immoral, unjust and unjustifiable wars AND the Bush Crime Family is out of office AND the White House at the least is back in Democratic hands.

[LaurenG]

3. My husband ex military

said to let him know that they will tell him anything to get him enlisted. Your MO turns into whatever they decide. My hubby ended up burning raw sewage (no bathrooms) with diesel fuel during Iraq 1. He was in communications. Anyway if he wants to be a pilot he needs to go to college. I wish he wouldn't do this. Good luck. O8)

[ThomWV]

6. Some Things Never Change

Burning shit was a pretty good job to get stuck with back in the Viet Nam days. Nasty job to be sure, but if you found yourself detailed to it for the day absolutly no one bothered you about anything anymore that day. Never bothered me a bit to burn shit.

[LaurenG]

13. lol He said the worst part

was because there was so little water other than fron drinking you couldn't get the smell off very well. They gave him weeks and weeks of it. He has a few pictures of himself with a great big stirring stick doing his job.

You're right, no one wanted to bother him. lol

[Journeyman]

4. If he "enlists," he won't learn to fly planes. . .

He needs to be commissioned as an officer and accepted into flight school to learn to fly planes.

Tell him to apply for the Air Force Academy (very difficult to get accepted there), or better yet, go to college and get a degree so he can qualify for officer training, then if he's lucky and meets the requirements, he may get to pilot a plane. And if he's really lucky he'll find other interests in life as he pursues his education, interests that may bring him as much satisfaction and joy as a stint in the military but without the stigma of involvement in GW's "crusade."

[Dover]

7. What is the NONmilitary way to pursue a pilot's liscence?

Is it a costly process?

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. It can be costly, but there are civilian schools

start with a small craft licence, taking classes at the local airport, then you can move to large Simulators and Jets... how much I have no idea .. but even chekc the local Junior College and see if they have a program, some do

[HeeBGBz]

23. College of the Ozarks has flight training

You can work at the school to pay tuition. If you can deal with a Christian based college, it is a good school. I went there for a few semesters. Both my sisters graduated from there.

Their work/study curriculum is pretty unique. You might check it out.

http://www.cofo.edu/ozarks.asp

"The college's academic program includes aviation technology and pilot training which is certified through the Federal Aviation Administration. Certifications include Airframe and Powerplant Mechanics and flight ratings of private, commercial, instructor and airline transport."

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. ROTC ratgher than the AF academy

why? all the scandals At Colorado Springs

[Journeyman]

18. Agreed. . .

but I was looking for ways to dissuade the young man from a quixotic pursuit (the idea he'd learn to fly as an enlisted man), and figured putting him onto the pursuit of Academy admission would do the trick, since it's so very difficult to get in, and at the least very time consuming, so he'd have time to reconsider his life-pursuits. It's why I recommended OTC as well, since he'd have to get an education to pursue that path. Again, giving him time to make a reasoned, intelligent choice. Nothing wrong with a stint or a career in the military, just important that those who make that choice make it for the right reasons for themselves and not simply to help a recruiter meet a monthly goal.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. the military NEEDs the young and still moldable

it has to do with brain development, at 18 they'll live forever. If we made the military legally only for those over 30, yuo would have a drop in wars... mostly you nuts, I coudl get killed, and what about teh family?

Oh and yes I remeember being young, dumb and stupid

;-)

[The Doctor.]

10. Actually, if he's clever enough to get that in writing...

then he can get whatever he expects.

I had a friend who went to enlist for the sake of becoming a Green Beret. The recruiter swore upside-down, sideways and backwards that he'd be given the test within months. So my friend (Dave) said, "just make sure it's in the contract".

The recruiter said, "Nah, that won't matter, besides... I guarantee you'll get it."

They went back and forth for an hour and then Dave walked out.


They will tell this young man anything he wants to hear to get him in and then put him wherever they want.

If he really believes that he'll get to do all that he wants, then they'll put it all in his contract without any clauses or disclaimers negating the agreement. That way, if things don't go his way, he can walk right off the base and all he has to do is show that the AF is in breach of contract.

But they won't... they'll promise with words then screw him with his contract.

I'm not an attorney, so I would recommend checking with a good one before trying any stunts like this.

But I can guarantee they won't give him what he wants.

Does he have 20/20 vision? Is he in good shape? Does he have high 'G' tolerance? Does he always score in the top 90% on his tests?

If yes to all, then he does have a better chance than most of becoming a pilot. If he's lacking in any of those, then his chances aren't that good.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. You forgot he NEEDs to be an officer as well

[The Doctor.]

19. Yes, had missed that bit...

Probably the most important point to make to this young man.

He should test the theory and ask them to put it in the contract that he'll be 'made' and officer and put in flight school within a few months... that'll get 'em.

[NMDemDist2]

12. my first husband enlisted in the AF 6 weeks basic, 8 weeks tech training

and he was on the flight line

less than 3 months to your active duty station as an elisted man.

if he's going in as an officer it will take a few more months to train him in the aircraft. Less than a year however. My Dad was a 30 year AF officer.

[Frances]

14. I talked to a bright young man from El Salvdor

last fall who wanted to enlist in the Air Force (he was moving my furniture from one place to another).

I wish I had asked more questions about his reasons for enlisting. I have spent many years working at community colleges and I know from listening to people who fought in Vietnam that combat stays with you always.

If the young person wants to join the Air Force in order to someday have his own airport, I would suggest that he look at alternative ways to achieve that goal.

I would suggest that he get a job working at the kind of airport that he would one day want to own. He would probably meet people there who would give him advice on how to get flying lessons cheaply. I would also encourage him to take business courses at the local community college at night.

His chances of achieving the goal of having his own airport are much greater in my opinion if he does not join the Air Force. There is a good chance as other posters have pointed out that he will wind up in Iraq and if he does he will have emotional baggage to deal with even if he doesn't have physical baggage. Trust me on this one--I am married to a Korean War fighter pilot vet who still counts his navy buddies as best friends and who loved flying.

[shanti]

16. nobody is safe

my son has an "office/paper pusher" MO and they're planning to tdy him to the middle east NEXT MONTH.

PLEASE discourage this young man to enlist!

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

25. Anyone joining any branch of the service, with expectation that they will

NOT go to Iraq, especially if they stay in more than a few years, is a fool.

Why doesn't this person talk to others who have joined up in the last year or two and hear what they have to say about it? People who are not involved in recruiting, of course.

[noamnety]

26. Air Force in Iraq

"6/3/2005 - CAMP BUCCA, Iraq (AFPN) -- Airmen here are performing jobs normally reserved for deployed Soldiers. They are escorting patrols and convoys, helping provide force protection for an Army camp and guarding detainees. "

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123010682




"A Little Rock Air Force Base airman from Kansas who was killed in Iraq while riding in a convoy was scheduled to come home in less than a month.

... Peters, 25, of El Dorado, Kan., died Sunday morning when the convoy in which he was traveling was hit by a homemade bomb, officials at the Little Rock Air Force Base said in a statement.

... Peters had been at the base almost four years and left for a 179-day deployment to the Middle East in February. It was his fourth deployment since arriving at the base Nov. 28, 2000, and his second tour in Iraq."

http://www.militarycity.com/valor/268638.html

[Dover]

28. Thanks for those articles. I've copied them to give this fellow. n/t

[noamnety]

29. Here's more

"Airman 1st Class Carl Anderson Jr., the son of the Rev. Carl Anderson Sr., who is running for the S.C. House, died Sunday when his truck ran over a homemade explosive near Mosul, Iraq.

... Anderson was assigned in 2002 to the 3rd Logistics Readiness Squadron at Elmendorf Air Force Base in Alaska.

Last month, he was assigned to drive military convoys in Iraq, said Lt. Elizabeth Paul, spokeswoman for the 3rd Wing."

http://www.pigstye.net/iraq/article.php/20040901081417552


"Auchman was a master sergeant in the Air Force but was assigned as a radio communications specialist with the Army in Iraq, Banks said, noting he was scheduled to retire next year and had been in Iraq for less than two month." http://www.fltimes.com/Main.asp?SectionID=38&SubSectionID=121&ArticleID=6398
(Auchman died Nov. 9 from injuries received when multiple rocket propelled grenades struck his location in Mosul, Iraq. )




On Sunday, Pedro Espaillat Sr. and his wife, Maria, were notified by the military that their oldest son died Saturday in Kirkuk, Iraq, under non-hostile circumstances that remain under investigation. ... But the family said they have learned from an unidentified source that their son, 20, died of a bullet wound. ''How, we don't know, but a bullet killed my son,'' he said.

http://www.tennessean.com/local/archives/04/05/51497118.shtml?Element_ID=51497118

"Air Force Staff Sgt. Patrick Lee Griffin Jr. joined the Air Force five years ago for the education benefits, and was sent to Iraq as combat was winding down." (from 2004!) http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-03-17-may-03-glimpses_x.htm

[Poiuyt]

27. My nephew is in the USAF stationed in Iraq

He's in Security guarding an air base there.

[NaturalHigh]

32. I'm an AF vet.

Proud of my service, but there's no way I would do it again. Tell the young man not to put a lot of faith in what recruiters tell him.

If my son wanted to join the Air Force (or any other branch), I would plead with him, even bribe him, not to do it.