Zobgy on illegal immigration. Will we listen?

[skids]

I'm not even going to get into my own personal views on this issue because I don't have to. There are times to come out swinging and seek to change public opinion, and there are other times, like these, to pursue an incrementalist approach that doesn't cut across the grain of the body of voters.

Read and consider.

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=990
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=370
http://www.cis.org/articles/2001/terrorpoll.html
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44154

A more broad poll from Gallup:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/default.aspx?ci=14785&pw=2/1/2005



So, folks, do we ignore these numbers going into the most important congressional elections since..., perhaps, ever?

[HockeyMom]

1. This is a major issue with the Freepers

Closing borders and illegal immigration. They are very upset with Bush over this issue. Many of them consider this far more important than even Tax Cuts or Roe v Wade.

It could also account for why Bush has gone so far down in the polls. He is losing Republican support for this issue.

[katsy]

2. Recommended...

I'm torn between 2 valid but opposing arguments and will be interested in weighing different opinions on this matter.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

3. I'm for demand-side restrictions on illegal immigration

You can't blame the immigrants for seeking economic opportunity.

However, they come here because so many people are willing to hire them. If I were the INS, I would go after the employers, fining them the equivalent of the previous year's income. If that shut down their business, too bad. If they wanted to keep their business, they'd have to hire citizens or legal immigrants.

But my idea doesn't have much appeal, because a whole lot of Americans prefer to dump on those darker-skinned people.

[BillZBubb]

4. The Repugs are listening.

Immigration will be their primary wedge issue in 2006. They are setting it up right now. Economic frustration, brought on by Repug policies, will be focused on immigrants. For the most part it is nonsense, but like all Repug wedges that won't matter. The sheeple will follow.

The smart thing for the Democrats to do is to defuse the issue as much as possible. We should say, as a unified party, that we will create an immigration policy that secures our borders and reduces illegal immigration. We don't need to be too specific, but we need to attack specific failures of the Busholini regime.

[screembloodymurder]

7. The Democrats need to get out front on this issue.

The only way they can win is to be first. It's a job and wage protection issue and Democrats have always supported the American worker. If you don't protect your base, you won't have one.

[BillZBubb]

8. It's a wedge issue.

It's not really about jobs or wages, it's about scapegoating because of the crappy economy. It's typical Repug misdirection. It will work, just like "welfare" used to work for the Repugs. We need to defuse the issue, but not join in the foolish scapegoating.

Now, NAFTA and CAFTA are about wages and jobs. They are serious economic issues. We should be attacking the Repugs for CAFTA, but we are limited because of Vichy Democrats who helped pass it.

[JDPriestly]

5. The laws against illegal immigration need to be enforced now.

We have a dear elderly friend who was obsessed with rescuing animals. The darling cats and dogs completely took over her house. Mind you, four or five pets would have been a bit much, but manageable. She had at least twenty at a time. No matter how much you love children, pets, relatives, humanity or needy immigrants, you are doing no good by taking responsibility for more of them than you can handle. Our friend felt guilty if she did not rescue every poor stray within miles of her house. Eventually, her generosity made her ill, and she could no longer even take care of herself. That, I fear, is where our country is headed. The United States is like our friend, benevolently adopting the excess population of the world, at the expense of its own health and prosperity.

California is breaking down over the pressure from illegal immigration. There is not enough housing, not enough money for schools, hospitals, law enforcement or social services. You go to a store or a hospital or even public offices, and you can't understand a word that is said because the immigrants who get the jobs do not speak decent English. The smallest transaction is time consuming and difficult. In addition, although non-English speakers seem to have no problem getting jobs in spite of substandard English, native born Americans can't qualify for many of the jobs unless they speak fluent Spanish. It's unfair. It's a mess.

Excessive immigration is paving the way to disaster. This is not about racial or cultural prejudice. It is about unlimited demand for limited resources. It is about importing ignorance and poverty into a society that is already struggling against recession and decline.

And the argument that Americans won't do these low-paid jobs is nonsense. When I was growing up, I and other young people like me did these jobs. For me in the city it was working in the fast food industry, babysitting. For my cousins in rural areas, it was helping with the harvest. We were thankful for the loose change we earned. We learned what used to be known as the American work ethic in the bargain. Nowadays, the kinds of kids who used to work summers for spending money join gangs and commit crimes. It's a loss/loss for Americans at every level.

I am liberal on many issues. This is not a liberal or conservative issue. It is a survival issue. It's an honesty issue. We have to be honest about how much immigration we can handle. Nothing against immigration that is measured and that we can absorb. That's great, regardless of where the immigrants are from, but, right now, we've got too much of a good thing. The solution is to go after the employers, send illegal immigrants home and tell those who want to come to our country to get on the waiting list.

[Carolab]

6. Very excellently put.

I am with you all the way.

Other countries have restrictions. We can't just show up in Canada, for example, and start working and collecting benefits there. Same in New Zealand, Scotland, etc. etc. etc.

So why should we have a wide-open door for illegals here? And that's not bigotry talking, it's protection for the economic well-being of legal citizens.

[NaturalHigh]

9. Enforce the laws!

That means we should strengthen our border to keep illegals out AND hit the employers that hire them HARD. I guarantee that if Tyson had to pay a $100,000 fine for every illegal alien caught slaving away in one of their chicken plants, they'd start to check work visas a little more closely.

[mitchtv]

10. though I tend to agree on your points

get the employers is rightfully number 1. I think , however , that you exagerate the problems in California, as you try to pick grapes or lettuce, not on a family owned farm, but a giant agribusiness, in someplace like Coachella, in 120 degrees heat.there are no whiteboys in Napa looking to pick grapes, theya are all inside. As for the English, That problem of decent english is shared by the Anglos who inhabit Socal, Customer service is dead, and its not language. All in all immigrant labor is essential to California's economy, but something must be done to stem the tide of illegals.