Minutemen: A home for extremists (Nazis attend rally)

[RSchewe]

(needed clarification, thanks to those here that pointed that out)

This is a recent Minutemen rally. And yes, that's a Nazi flag there, third from the right.

Well, I've been saying all along that the Minutemen's core demographic is constituted of right-wing extremists, including many outright racists.

At a recent anti-immigrant rally in Laguna Beach, the connection was made explicit.

The rally was held July 30. It apparently was a follow-up of sorts to a similar rally held in the same locale on July 16, in which a local anti-immigration activist decided to protest a local arts festival's financial support for a day labor center for undocument workers. This rally drew the participation of the Save Our State campaign (an ostensibly mainstream anti-immigration organization) and the Minutemen's Jim Gilchrist. It also drew a contingent of neo-Nazis.

Interestingly, an account of what happened from the other side can be found at the neo-Nazi Stormfront forum, where one of the participants described how the neo-Nazi flags appeared:

The flags came out in the last few moments of the protest. The commies were chanting "Nazis Go Home" for hours on end non-stop, so I and everyone present on the street in the hot sun, facing hostile commies, browns, and who-knows-what greenlighted the flag idea. We will stand behind our decision.

If anyone wants to do it differently, come with us and tell us then and there.

Besides, this is America and if they can fly their commie flags, burn the US flag, fly their brown flag, we can fly anything we want.

Source: http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2005/08/minutemen-home-for-extremists_08.html

[fudge stripe cookays]

1. Well, they've just made OUR job easier....

calling them racist assholes. Turns out we were right. And anyone else can now see that proof.

Moderates, wake up!
FSC

[Lannes]

4. Thats right Bush doesnt give a shit about border security

Or illegal immigration so that makes all liberals rethugs.I thought we were passed that.
Ok some assholes coopted this issue.Doesnt mean those of us with legitimate concerns should be lumped in with them just like I dont believe because Bush takes the same stance you do makes you a fascist.

[fudge stripe cookays]

16. Huh?

That was barely literate.

Anyone could have chased off the idiots with swastikas if they were offended by them being associated with their cause.

But there they were...they look pretty friendly to me.

I live in Texas, dear. Don't think I don't know about problems with immigration. They built a freaking colonia next to the house my grandfather built in Weslaco in 1946.

Bush taking the same stance as you makes you a fascist? Well, you said it, I didn't. But if the shoe fits....

FSC

[warrens]

23. From what I have seen, Bush has the most cynical plan out there

Nominally against free immigration, but winking at enough that Tyson and the rest can hire all the minimum wage workers they need to do some of the most brutal, back-breaking work there is, for minimum wage.

I don't think anyone is for untrammeled immigration, or they'll race each other to the bottom just to be able to eat. Also, a lot of them are spending their life savings to get here, only to be sent back a few hours later. It's a mess, and I haven't heard a single solution that sounds halfway realistic. The status quo is better than most of the "solutions" I've heard.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[jsamuel]

2. do you also see them heil Hitler in the picture?

[SteppingRazor]

3. To be fair...

You've made it sound like the Nazis and the Minutemen are one in the same, when they are in fact two separate groups that both showed up to the same anti-immigrant rally, and the photos you've posted are just the Nazis, not the Minutemen.

Now, I'm hardly a fan of the Minutemen. It's just that I'm a really big believer in getting the straight facts.

[Kraklen]

5. LOL.

You're right. The Neo-nazis and the KKK are two seperate and distinct groups to. It's important to distinguish between the for the sake of being fair.

[SteppingRazor]

6. I know, I know...

It's not gonna be the most popular view around. I'm just saying that we can't now go around screaming that the Minutemen are Nazis and that we have proof of this. Because we don't. In the end, I'm trying to make sure that we don't look like idiots.

As for the Minutemen and the Nazis, well, they already DO look like idiots. So no biggie there.

[Kraklen]

7. Who's we?

And try a little harder.

[SteppingRazor]

12. Try a little harder to do what, exactly?

I know better than to get in a shouting match with you, dude. I've been on the same side with you in too many of them (see: Science, and/or woo woo :evilgrin: )

[RSchewe]

9. San Diego Indymedia has more pics. Look at the posters and shirts

http://www.sdimc.org/en/2005/07/110267.shtml

[SteppingRazor]

11. Right. And as posted there...

These Nazis showed up to the SOS thing uninvited. But, as posted later, the Nazis obviously support the same ideas as the Minutemen and the SOS.

One could then draw the conclusion that, certainly, both groups are anti-immigration to the point of being bigots. One could not, however, say that the Minutemen or SOS themselves displayed any neo-Nazi paraphernalia, which is the only point I'm trying to make.

In fact, on Orcinus' site, it mentions that the leader of the SOS protest disavowed the whole thing and went home after the Nazis showed up, as she is Jewish.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SteppingRazor]

14. Self-delete

I had a rather nasty reply here, and I regret it. When someone accuses you of defedning everything you are against, it tends to irk you. Apologies.

[RSchewe]

8. So then I guess you are calling the blogger I sourced a liar...

I made no conclusions about the pictures based on my own knowledge. Is there something you know of the claim to be false?

[SteppingRazor]

10. Actually, Orcinus is pretty clear...

That the two groups are not the same thing, if one reads his entire report. But the bit that you've clipped here could be misleading to people who don't click the link and read the whole story.

[DFWdem]

18. Facts aren't always popular Razor

The fact that the Minuteman organization and neo-nazis agree on one issue does not mean they agree on all issues. An apt analogy would be to say that the vast majority of liberals want the US out of Iraq, and the vast majority of terrorists want the US out of Iraq, liberals are terrorists (or terrorists are liberals). It is obvious that neither of these statements is true.

[Generic Other]

15. It's the Minnie Mouses!!

The Corpo fascists!

Calling Sinclair Lewis!! It's Happening Here!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. But, the Minutemen aren't racists or nazis. They just act like them.

Just like the White Citizens Councils weren't like the KKK.

Bull Conner was just a good lawman trying to keep order.

Orville Faubus was only concerned about quality education.

Lester Maddox waved around that bat because he loved baseball.

And, lest we forget, Slaves were really happy and singing and dancing and loved Massa & Mistess and were much better off before them durned Yankees snuck across the border and forced them into freedom.

[GracieM]

19. Well said

Is there a difference between KKK, Nazis, and a plain old bigot?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

20. Yes. The KKK and Nazis aren't as hypocritical about their bigotry.

Which is hardly a plus for them. But, at least they don't lard it over with pseudo-patriotic "concern" for our borders and workers.

[reBel_gyrl]

21. unpopularity, here I come...

I am not against the minutemen at all. If the president and those in charge are not going to protect our borders, then more power to those that will. It is not fair to say all minutemen are Nazi's or racists, or what have you, just because a group of those people showed up at a rally. And why is it "our job" to call them such? All I know and that is that though a number could fall under either or both titles, people are definitely over generalizing. what is it that is so wrong with these people defending our border? (as long as it is non violent, that is)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. YES!! Protect the wealthy from the Evil peasants!!

Liberals are famous for taking the side of the downtrodden rich.

Especially if they're the wrong color and speak a different language.

[DFWdem]

24. Or protect US citizens from...

The roughly 52,000 illegal immigrants in our prison system. That's right, 52,000. Let's see, 52,000 x $30,000 per year, that's.... $1.56 Billion dollars annually for the illegals in prison (and that's just the federal system. The percentages are probably roughly the same for state prisons). And I thought they were just here looking for work?

http://www.bop.gov/about/facts.jsp#2

[SteppingRazor]

26. Or protect US poor from being even poorer.

I'm not for the Minutemen. It smacks of vigilante justice, and the whole thing leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. But I'm definitely for serious enforcement of our borders. The reason Bush and his cohorts don't give a damn about the borders, IMHO, is because illegal immigrants mean cheaper wages for everyone. And if there is one thing that almost every Republican policy leads to, it is completely powerless labor that is dirt cheap. Enforcing our borders is good for the American worker. And, although agonizing in the short-run, also good for foreign workers in the long-run.

[stepnw1f]

29. Let's Play Stupid for the Elite

and beat up brown people so we can feel important! Hear that..........


"mommy doesn't luv me".

Losers!

[LeftyDarthBrodie]

25. The Minutemen are non-violent?

If thats the case this belongs in LBN.

[reBel_gyrl]

27. No no, I mean they should be if they are going to continue.

[LeftyDarthBrodie]

36. Were they non-violent when they started?

I'm sorry but untrained people roaming around with guns does not make me feel safe and does not make me think that our borders are less pourous.

There are sensible approaches to the border problem. Armed citizens taking the law into their own hands is not one of them.

[reBel_gyrl]

37. I thought so..

I have only heard a few reports in which these "untrained people" have actually used their guns, and only one in which someone was killed. There are probably more, I assume, and I am not justifying the loss of life by any means, but at least these guys are doing something. You say there are sensible approaches to the border problem? I agree, close them. However since this administration seems to have no interest in protecting us that way, I am open to your suggestions!

[ulysses]

31. THANK GOD YOU'RE HERE

I was really beginning to worry that we were facing a dearth of apologists for racemongering idiots here.

[annabanana]

30. It REALLY burns my ass that they've taken that name..

I grew up in Lexington Mass, and that name epitomized the true spirit of a patriot.. and just look what they've done to it.

[AllieB]

32. Somehow seeing those flags is not surprising

can anyone who supports them truly call themselves a Democrat?

[mixedview]

33. just goes to show the confed flag is indeed used as a racist symbol

of defiance, and not just about "southern heritage".

And it proves that the cultural conservatives use the American flag for this purpose as well.

Dean hit the nail on the head about wanting to "take back the flag".

I, as an independent and a libertarian, refuse to let anyone co-opt the American flag, which stands more for what I believe in (liberty, freedom, equality) than anything they believe in.

That being said - illegal immigration is a serious problem that needs to be dealt with.

I doubt most of these men in the pictures above are inherently evil.

Anywhere in the world, in any country, whenever illegal immigration gets out of hand, the young, lower class men of that country (whatever race they may be) usually take a sharp turn to the right (ethnocentrism, nationalism, racism, etc). There will always be racists, but sensible immigration laws would prevent this from happening on any large scale.