Yet another reason to hate hospitals

[TheProphetess]

My 76-year-old dad couldn't breathe on Thursday - it was very hot and humid out and he does not have air conditioning. I called an ambulance to take him to the hospital to get checked out. When we arrived at the hospital (I followed the ambulance), they would not let me stay with him in the E.R. ("new policy").

After about 5 minutes in the waiting room, I told them that my dad is hard of hearing so I wanted to be with him to be sure he hears what they ask him, etc., and I was granted permission to stay with him in his curtain area. He was breathing fine at this point - the air conditioning plus oxygen really helped.

They did an EKG, some blood work, and gave him a breathing treatment. Then the doctor comes over and tells my dad that his x-ray showed a severe case of pneumonia. My dad immediatly says "I didn't have x-rays." I couldn't be 100% sure that he did not have them since I had not been with him the entire time he was in the E.R. but I did tell the doctor that I had only been away from him for the first 5 minutes. The doctor laughed it off (basically thinking my dad must be a confused old man) and said "of course you had x-rays; your name is on them" and then immediatly treated him with antibiotics and ordered a CAT scan to be sure there was nothing else more serious going on.

At this point my dad was swearing that he did not have any x-rays and he kept asking the E.R. staff if they could be mistaken - I even went to the doctor and nurses and asked if they could confirm with the technician if he had x-rays because he was very sure he did not. I specifially asked if there was any way the x-rays could have been mislabled. I was assured that all of the staff remembered the portable x-ray machine coming in to take my dad's x-rays. My dad's nurse even came up to him and made the sarcastic comment, "the x-rays you didn't have show that you have pneumonia."

Well, when his CAT scan came back, guess what? It did not match his supposed x-rays. The doctor came back and said "you were right - you didn't have any x-rays taken." No apology, just "you were right." So, my dad not only was ignored and treated like a foolish child who knew nothing but he was also put through an additional test he did not need (the CAT scan) and he was immediatly medicated for an illness he did not have. I realize that anitibiotics won't hurt him, but what if it had been something much worse?

The doctors and nurses simply did not listen to my father - they assumed that he was an elderly person who was sick and confused. They didn't take the time to assess his coherence - it they had, they would have found that he remembered every other test they performed and he even knew exactly which staff members were present when he arrived in the E.R. The good news: my dad was not as sick as the poor person whose x-ray was labeled with my dad's name. He was treated and released with no restrictions (other than to take it easy in the heat).

Hospitals scare me more than anything Wes Craven could dream up.

[wtmusic]

1. That condescending shit drives me nuts

and I have three doctors in my family. :grr:

[TheProphetess]

6. Yeah, I felt very bad for my dad afterwards

I even started to think he must have been wrong since every single person in that E.R. said that they remembered him getting the x-rays. Of course they said it with big condescending smiles while nodding at him like they would a little boy.

I realize doctors aren't above making errors - I just wish they would recognize that as well.

[Tux]

11. Odd

every single person in that E.R. said that they remembered him getting the x-rays

Doublethink?

[TheProphetess]

16. My guess is that they all misremembered him having it done

They waited for the doctor to say "of course you had x-rays - look, they have your name on them" and then they nodded in agreement. "Yep, the machine came in and took x-rays."

I even said "that was fast since I was only gone for the first 5 minutes when he first came in the E.R." The doctor replied, "that's how efficient we are!" Ha!

[SkyIsGrey]

47. Actually that would be Group think.

Doublethink would be as such. "Nobody remembers the portable X-Ray machine being on the floor at that time, but they all remember Him receiving an X-Ray from that machine at that time." Two completely opposed thoughts.

[Amelie]

60. Do you know what the difference is between God and a doctor?

God knows he's not a doctor (ba-da-bump).

My great-aunt (86 years old) fell down her front steps about a month ago and had to go to the ER. She was such a mess (her shirt and face were covered in blood) that the cab driver refused to accept payment for taking her. She sat there for over five hours before anyone looked at her, and the only reason she got attention after that was because my father-in-law/her nephew finally got off of work and was able to make a stink about the treatment she was getting. There's a whole lot more to the story, but the bottom line is that she was treated horribly and dismissively. I've noticed the same with my grandmother, who's 89 years old. Medical personnel seem to think the elderly should be grateful just to be alive, and don't really seem to care about the quality of treatment they get. Sort of a "you'll-get-what-I-give-and-be-happy-about-it" attitude.

[wli]

2. it gets worse, a lot worse

[TheProphetess]

10. A friend's aunt got a mistaken blood transfusion

She had a kidney infection and the transfusion was meant for the person in the next curtain area. Luckily, she had a compatible blood type.

[Blue_Tires]

36. amen to that shit

as long as you got your dad out there alive, that's the good part

[LuCifer]

3. Hospitals, funneral homes and auto repair shops my 3 LEAST...

...favorite places. If people I know aren't sick or dying, the goddamn cars ARE!

My dad has a rare form of MD, and these moron docs 99% of the time treat him as if he is having a HEART ATTACK. WRONG MORONS. Try again. I mean, if you are going to cop that "I AM A DOCTOR, SO I AM GOD, I KNOW EVERYTHING" shit with me, the LEAST you can do is know what all 42 or so forms of MD are...pricks.

Lu

[TheProphetess]

26. That's awful

It can be so very frustrating to go through the same routine again and again. Good luck with your dad.

[seabeyond]

4. that is why the policy of no one in room is so bad

i immediately didnt like hearing that one. the person who is ill cannot take care of themselves. tehy need a loved one to be dealing and listening to all the stuff. bad bad. especially older people. it is well documented older people and women especially dont ask the questions they need to

[TheProphetess]

8. You're right - I've contacted the E.R. director

telling her what I think of the new policy to separate the family members from the one who is ill. Especially with the elderly since, even if they are coherent, they aren't taken seriously.

[elehhhhna]

54. The policy protects them from mistakes. Less witnesses.

[FreedomAngel82]

22. That's what is so strange

That's something I don't get. I've never been in a hospital were you couldn't have someone with you. Very strange indeed. Of course when you have surgery that's a bit different. I had two ear surgery's when I was younger and my mother couldn't stay with me and I was by myself. Same when I had heart surgery. But not to be in the room for x-ray's and the like is something I've never heard of. :shrug: I've had x-ray's before and my mom could've always stay with me. :shrug:

[TheProphetess]

31. Exactly

Every time either of my parents have been in the hospital, I've always been able to stay with them. This time we were informed that the new E.R. director made a policy that no one can be with a patient when they first arrive in the E.R. Why? I have no idea. But I saw signs up all over the E.R. stating "no more than 2 visitors per patient - no exceptions" so apparently this new director has a restrict-the-visitors agenda.

[Gormy Cuss]

69. Restricting visitors prudent. Excluding a single family escort is stupid.

I won't go into all gorry details but we went through this in our family with an older relative who was being treated with a drug cocktail that the doctors knew could cause temporary psychosis. There were 1 or 2 relatives around from morning till evening and the relative with power of attorney was available for any conferences on two hours' notice in person, and within ten minutes by phone. In spite of this, they kept doing things without input from family. For example, they took the patient's word that she had a history of heart trouble (wrong and if they just looked at their own institutional records they would have uncovered that) and would give her forms to sign without bothering to determine whether she was in a good state or mentally flying off somewhere. It was very frustrating and the whole family met with an administrator to express our dissatisfaction. After the meeting, we had much better communication and input.

I hope your efforts with the hospital sink in and the policy is amended. Why they want to increase their liability by relying only on the patient for info is beyond me.

[nashville_brook]

5. never, EVER go alone to a hospital -- protest if they try to separate you

i've had some doozies of experiences in hospitals. you are so right. way more scare than Craven's worst nightmare.

it is vitally important to have a support person who can petition for your needs. too sleepy to elaborate... but damn, you are lucky the xray called for antibiotics and not amputation.

[TheProphetess]

7. No doubt we were lucky

There are plently worse things than antibiotics.

[raccoon]

65. Thank goodness you were there, and things turned out ok.

And add me to the list of those who are tired of many doctors' condescending attitude, and acting like they're God and therefore infallible.

[Catherine Vincent]

9. It's the individuals..

They can do no wrong so if when they do, they won't admit it.

[TheProphetess]

12. Indeed

I kept waiting to hear an "I'm sorry" and I'm still waiting. I told the doctor that the moral of this story is that they all need to learn to listen to their patients.

[Horse with no Name]

13. I hurt my left knee

1 month after surgery on it.
I went to the ER on a Sunday afternoon. It was swollen the size of a football.
I waited 5 hours, asked how much longer it was going to be, was told it was going to be 2-3 more hours.
I made the decision to go home and ice it and call the doc who did my surgery on Monday.
I figured 8-9 hours post injury wasn't going to be different than 24 hours.
I told the clerk in the ER I was going home.
End of story.
Three weeks later I get a bill. It was for X-Rays, ER services, splint and medication.
I called and told them I never saw a doc. They insisted that I did, because they had "the records".
I went to Medical Records and asked to see the records. The records showed X-Rays done of someone's right knee. It showed that they gave me Codeine, which I was highly allergic to (this was on my chart).
I told them they would be hearing from my attorney since they insisted that they saw me because I did not injure my right knee and that is the one they "treated" then prescribed medication that was clearly indicated that I was allergic to.
After that, they decided that maybe I was right after all and really had not seen anyone.
It's really sad these days when some healthcare professionals believe paperwork over patients.

[TheProphetess]

23. How bizarre!

It amazes me how these places function. I reported our situation to the hospital's patient advocate and informed her that we will not be paying for the unnecessary CAT scan nor for the medications he was administered since they were ordered based on another patients' records. If they try to bill us for these things, I will contact the insurance company and report it as insurance fraud.

[raccoon]

66. Good for you.

"I told them they would be hearing from my attorney "

[Kenroy]

14. gads, what a nightmare

I just had a very nice experience at the emergency room last week. It's lucky I was young (enough) and coherent to advocate for myself.

[TheProphetess]

28. Good for you

I hope you're doing well. :)

Turns out that I have no good hospital stories. I just realized that they all seem to have some messed up things that happen. I have a serious hospital aversion now. Yuck!

[Kenroy]

34. I totally understand...

I live in a small town with a pretty good hospital - actually a very good hospital. But I can understand how easy it would be for it to turn into a bad hospital.

It's almost an impossible task to provide quality health care to everybody. The work (nursing, especially) is not rewarded, the doctors are, by and large, nobody we'd ever want to hang out with (in other words, they're assholes) and the insurance companies tighten the screws at every opportunity.

And sadly, it's going to get worse before it gets better.

Edit: I'm doing well, thank you very much for asking.

[FreedomAngel82]

15. How horrible!

I've never heard of that happening before that you couldn't stay with your dad. :\ That's ridiculous! You're a direct relative. And that is very scary. What if he was allergic to some type of medicine and they gave him the medicine he was allergic to and it really hurt him? And how rude they didn't offer an apology!

[TheProphetess]

29. No apologies - no admitting to being wrong

Just the "you were right" comment. It must be too much for the ego to take.
I will never let hospital staff tell me I cannot stay with my mom or dad ever again. And for that matter, same goes for the Prophet - I firmly believe that having a loved one with you in the hospital is absolutely necessary. I've seen too many strange things happen.

[Princess Turandot]

17. You should report this to your state's Department of Health or

appropriate state department. Did you actually see the film and that it had your dad's name on it? Did anyone check with the technician himself? Mixing up patient tests is a big deal from a quality assurance basis. It's what leads to patients have surgery for the wrong thing. Health Departments usually take things like this pretty seriously.

I had surgery 4 years ago for early onset cataracts and on each occasion I was asked several times by people other than the MD which eye was being done, even though I was wearing a lovely sticker above the one slated for surgery.

I worked as a hospital administrator for 10 years, altho not on the clinical side. People always can use reminders to be vigilant. As many hospitals are forced to cut back on staff, those reminders become even more important.

[TheProphetess]

19. Excellent point

I did contact the hospital's patient advocate who is making a report on our behalf - but I will also contact the health department now that you mention it. I just kept thinking about how bad it could have been if he had been given something harmful (rather than antibiotics) based on someone else's x-rays.

I did not see the film but the story the x-ray technician told me is that the nurse brought my dad's chart with a different elderly man who was about 5 curtains away from us. By the way, I did make sure that the other man was given his x-ray results once we found out it was an error.

[Princess Turandot]

30. So if they had first asked the tech to eyeball your dad, he would have..

confirmed that your dad was not the person who he did the scan on? I would definitely file a complaint,if they refused to check with the xray tech before sending him for the CAT Scan. The patient advocate will file paperwork internally, usually with the quality assurance department which has the job of both assuring quality and being on the alert for malpractice suits. If you really want to file a complaint, do so with the state. In NYS, the Department of Health takes complaints on hospitals, as opposed to complaints abt doctors, which go to a different state agency. I would check your state's main webpage; you can probably figure out from there who to complain about. This sounds more like an institutional problem than a physician problem. Also, if the nursing staff were being jerks, and if you know their names, send a letter to the Chief Nursing Officer and cc it to the CEO of the hospital. They just love getting letters like that :).

If you want to really be obnoxious, you could tell them that you are filing a complaint with Medicare (assuming your dad was covered by it) that they did an unnecessary procedure because they refused to thoroughly check out your observations. If your dad was sent home, I believe that the different xray procedures are separately billable to Medicare. (If he was admitted, that would not be the case.) At a minimum, if your dad does not have secondary insurance to pay the Medicare co-payment for the CAT Scan, make sure they agree to write it off as a courtesy adjustment. (Once again, that only applies if he was not admitted - I did not go back & check the original message.) The patient advocate should be able to take care of that for you.

[TheProphetess]

32. Thanks

I did tell the advocate that we will not be paying for the CAT scan nor for the medications he was given based on someone else's x-rays. If we do get billed for those, I will contact the insurance company and tell them it is insurance fraud and give them the story.

By the way, one nurse (my dad's primary nurse) was a real pain in the ass. She was rude and condescending and had no empathy in her body at all. I am seriously considering making a complaint about her.

[elehhhhna]

58. Just do it. Spare future patients her smartass attitude.

[elehhhhna]

57. Hubs had early onset cataracts- I drew the X's over the proper eye eye

before he had the surgeries (at the hospitals request).

[Warren DeMontague]

18. In my experience, the LESS a health care professional knows

the more they try to play that "Don't question me. I'm the professional, I know everything" game.

It's like the Bush administration. Some of them think if they start admitting they don't know what the fuck they're doing, the game is up.

[TheProphetess]

20. That sounds like you've hit the nail on the head

[Obamarama]

21. This is exactly why I am making a career change into nursing...

After experiencing similar situations with my own family members, I thought "I can do this better than them." I specifically want to work in the ER. A lot of fine, intelligent, caring people work in the medical field, but there are a lot of condescending, mypoic assholes as well. Sorry you got stuck with one and not the other.

As for this policy of not being able to be with your loved one in the ER, that's nuts. Let this be a lesson. You need to fill out a patient advocate form for your father, or better yet, a medical power of attorney. It allows you to make medical decisions for/with your father. You likely would not have been shoved off to the waiting room had you been able to whip this legal document out.

[TheProphetess]

25. Great advice - thanks

I will look into the power of attorney or medical advocate forms. In the meantime, I've learned my lesson to never leave a loved one in the hospital.

Thank goodness for people who care - I hope things work out for you in your career. Good luck! :hi:

[Nite Owl]

24. Thank God that he didn't

get any treatment that could have hurt him! What about the person that had the pneumonia, were they left untreated? I hope they corrected their mistake and didn't release them.

[TheProphetess]

27. I did confirm with the doctor that the man was informed of his diagnosis

Turns out he had been admitted and was in room already - they said that they called up to his room and spoke with his family. We can only hope they weren't lying!

[katamaran]

33. Veterans Hospital pretty much killed my grandmother

The Veterans Hospital pretty much killed my grandmother in 1994. She had collapsed in August 1993 from kidney failure and was rushed to the local ER. After being on life support for three weeks, she was sent to the VA hospital (where she was supposed to go anyway, but the EMTs wouldn't take her there...same distance). Her little jaunt in the local hospital ended up costing over 100K, but that's a whole other animal.

Anyway, once at the VA, she was re-learning to breathe on her own with extra oxygen and a tracheotomy. About three months into the ordeal, I went to visit her with my mom, who hadn't told me she was talking again. Just hearing the two words "hi Kate" when I walked into her room was enough to forever burn her voice into my memory (I was 16...she lived with us my whole life). She was beginning to eat on her own, could carry on full conversations, and was about to start physical therapy to walk again. The doctors gave her about a month before she could probably come home.

That was the last time she spoke to me. Three days later, a nurse gave her an insulin injection that was meant for the man next door. It sent her into a coma for a month. When she finally woke up, she was severely brain damaged and had almost no control of her body. She had lost 99% of her ability to communicate (she was able to nod for a while). Her body atrophied into a fetal position, and she went from 200 lbs to 125 lbs in a couple months. Her body literally began rotting in the VA hospital and they kicked her out. We had to scramble to find a nursing home in the two days they gave us. She was transported before the nursing home even approved her. VA dumped her on their doorstep without any charts or other info other than name, social, and date of birth. Imagine our surprise when we went to visit her at VA and found her room empty. Luckily the nursing home was good to her.

She eventually deteriorated to the point that we (my mom, uncle and I) made the decision to let her go in September 1994. Weird thing I remember about that day was that I had the flu and it was a warm, sunny day. My mom and I had the weirdest case of the giggles all day. We deal with grief a little differently in my family.

Moral of the story, or immorality of the story, is that you can't (at that time) sue a VA hospital for malpractice or negligence. Isn't that spiffy? It literally took an act of congress (one (R) Senator and two (D) Congressmen) to get the VA to pay for her local hospital and nursing home stays. That senator is the only Republican I have ever voted for and will continue to vote for until he retires...same goes for my parents.

Rant over.

[nashville_brook]

51. a little OT -- but when my mother died at my sister's house...

we spent the week going to this one estate sale and buying all sorts of weird shit. retail therapy? yep. the estate sale was for a woman who had been with the Virginia Highlands Crafts Guild. i bought ceramics. use them everyday. it was a mysterious week. so much odd behavior from everyone. the estate sale gave us a touchstone -- i place to put our minds while our emotions did their job. my sister almost bought the damn house! grief is an amazing thing.

[Sgent]

35. VA hospitals

are perpetually understaffed and overworked -- leading to poor care in many cases. They tend to do well on "items by rote" (every heart pt. goes home with inst to take an aspirin/day), but patients unfortunately fall through the cracks a lot. FYI there is now the FTCA, which pays malpractice for VA hospitals; however, you can only collect economic damages, and even those are occassionally limited.

As for the OP, the only thing I think of in terms of you staying with the patient is the hospitals HIPAA policy. Unless dad expressly authorized it, or you had a healthcare power of attorney on your person, the hospital maybe operating under a to restrictive (IMHO) interpretation of HIPAA.

[Heddi]

39. HIPAA doesn't prevent her from being in the hospital room with him

even in the Emergency Room.

HIPAA prevents her from calling up and getting his diagnosis over the phone, or getting copies of his medical records. Things like that.

If she accompanied him to the ER, there is no reason that she should not have been let into the room with him.

I've only done limited ER rotation in nursing school, but I've been to the ER plenty of times aside from that and there's never been a problem with friends and/or family accompanying me into the room and speaking with the Doctors.

Again, with elderly people, you always have the risk that they have dementia, or will express dementia due to other body problems. You can tell if an elderly person is in distress if they're acting normal at 5:00pm and can't remember their address at 8:00pm. It means breathing problems, no oxygen, loss of blood--tons of things.

It's IMPERATIVE with the elderly to allow family members into the room with them to confirm and verify information that the patient gives medical staff.

When I did ER rotation, we had a girl who arrived at the hospital via ambulance, and was accompanied by one of her teachers because she collapsed in class (She was going to be there until mom could arrive). The girl ended up having appendicitis, but the teacher was not only allowed to stay in the room as they did vitals and a cursory physical exam, but the teacher was asked if she knew any pertinent medical information, or could elaborate on the collapse when the girl couldn't.

Perfectly acceptable and not outside the realm of HIPAA

--ON EDIT---
If the hospital gives the excuse that they're only adhering to HIPAA< then they are stepping WILDLY outside of the bounds of HIPAA, as there is no provision in HIPAA that disallows anyone from accompanying someone to the hospital and staying with them in the room (whether on the floor, or in the ER)

[REP]

37. Sounds About Right

I will not go to the ER unless I really I think I might die, and then only if someone can go with me. I 've got too many horror stories, so I'll just mention having to physically stop a resident from injecting me with Toradol, a drug that can kill a patient with my kidney disease. My kidney disease is all over my chart, in addition to my MedicAlert bracelet and my verbal warning, and not giving Toradol to kidney patients is something a first-year med student knows.

[Heddi]

38. Find out if that hospital is covered by JCHAO

The Joint Commission on Accreditation of Healthcare Organizations.

The hospital I do my nursing school rotations at just got visited by JCHAO because of alot of complaints from the community AND from nurses and doctors that work there. They came in and did a HUGE evaluation and the hospital CEO was just given a vote of no-confidence, and like 18 ER doctors walked off and had to be replaced with Dr's from a temp staffing agency! -- also, this is a town with ONLY two hospitals and a huge migrant worker, native american, lower income population. The hospital that I'm talking about was basically the 'community' hospital out of the 2.

At any rate--if they're with JCHAO, file a complaint with them.

http://www.jcaho.org/

http://www.jcaho.org/general+public/public+input/report+a+complaint/report+a+complaint.htm

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File a complaint with your State's Health Board

File a complaint with the Nursing Supervisor with the hospital (since the nurses were complicit in the error)

File a complaint with the NURSING LICENSING BOARD --- errors like this are (in some cases) grounds to have professional licenses temporarily OR permanently suspended.

File a complaint with the head of the Emergency Room and whoever the "head" doctor is there.

What happened to your dad was completely unacceptable and the textbook model my professors use in what SHOULD NEVER happen in a hospital (or other health-care) setting.

Because your dad was old and having breathing problems, one of the BIGGEST things that you look for in the elderly is disorientation--one of the hallmark signs of other bad things (from pneumonia, lack of O2, bleeding problems---a plethora of things). Since you were there, they should have DEMANDED you be there with him and to verify all the information he gave.

In the ER setting I worked in, if there was someone else with the patient, they were CONTINUOUSLY asked things like "Do you know if they're allergic to anything?" in ADDITION to asking the patient.

What they did was beyond sloppy and just pure neglegent. I'm very disappointed to hear about that, and it really gives the profession a super bad name. There are alot of compitent nurses and doctors out there who are NOT willing to cut corners or take the easy way out, and it's a shame that WE are blighted because of these completely avoidable and unexcusable actions on the part of bad practitioners.

Good luck. You need to take actions with regards to this. There are licensing boards (nursing, medical) who NEED to know this. The hospital NEEDS to know about this. The state NEEDS to know about this. JCHAO NEEDS to know about this.

Good luck, and keep us informed

[Greyhound]

40. Thank God, we have the ever-efficient, corporate health care system...

to save us from those, uncaring, inhuman, wasteful guvermunt. :banghead:

[Heddi]

41. You know, the hospital I did rotations at

was, like I said, one of the two hospitals in a 100 mile radius for this area.

The one I worked at was for-profit. Part of some huge health-care conglomerate that owns tons of hospitals throughout the US.

The other hospital is non-profit.

My hospital is having major crises, doctors walking off (18 ER Doctors in ONE day), nurses walking off, nurses being fired or laid off (unHEARD of in these days of Nursing Shortages), complaints up and down the boards.

The non-profit hospital is the nicest. They have a hyperbaric chamber. They have cutting-edge technology. They're a heart center. They're a low-level trauma center.

Mine isn't.

Mine is functioning on 1990 medical technology. Mine is grossly understaffed. Mine is crumbling on its foundation.

But people keep telling themselves FOR PROFIT IS GOOD.

Oh yeah? Show it to me.

---

When I did floor rotation, we had a little clip-chart for charge items for patients. Like, if they needed oxygen tubing, you'd put the sticker from the tubing so they'd be charged for it (standard stuff).

They weren't charged for toothbrush and toothpaste, but they were charged SEVEN FUCKING DOLLARS for a 2 oz bottle of shampoo. They were charged FIFTEEN DOLLARS for fucking shitty slippers they were REQUIRED to wear for safety and that were WASHED AND REUSED for other patients.

FIFTEEN DOLLARS. And it didn't matter if they brought non-skid slippers from home--they HAD To wear these stupid booties.

I guess you gotta pay them CEO salaries SOMEHOW :eyes:

[Greyhound]

42. "For God's sake Jim, don't leave him in the hands of...

(21st)century medicine" - DeForest Kelly
A couple of my former girlfriends worked in the private health care system. If people only knew what was going on. I swear that people that get out of those hell-holes are getting better in spite of the care they get in those places.
BTW JAHCO standards are pretty thorough, but the committee can be, and regularly is, bought.

[Heddi]

43. OH yeah. Completely agree about JCHAO

My rotation at the hospital ended the week before JCHAO did their every-so-often evaluation.

They gave the hospital A FUCKING SIX MONTH NOTICE they were going to do an evaluation...

Now, I used to work in Restaurants (I prefer jobs where people know it's not in their best interest to piss me off :) ). The health department would NEVER announce that they were coming. They'd just fucking show up and your shit better be in order. And that's "just" for fucking FOOD!

You'd THINK they'd do the same thing with Hospitals. Just. show. up. If you're doing things by the book and correctly, you should have no fear. I know when I was Asst. Kitchen Manager, I LONGED for Health Department to show up on my shift because we would have gotten a 99% (no one ever gets 100% on a health certificate) because I run my ship tight.

Hospitals should be no different. Follow the rules, and you're okay. Why be given notice? Your "notice" should be every day, 24 hour a day knowledge that you're putting the lives of others as well as your own life at risk if you don't follow the rules. That's enough of a motivator for ME to do things the right way, the first time, ALL the time.

The hospital, upon learning that JCHAO would be visiting, had tons of little "reminder" cards throughout the building and patient areas, supervisors would walk up to you and ask you a littany of questions to make sure you knew your "shit". I didn't like it. You should KNOW this stuff REGARDLESS of whether or not JCHAO is visiting.....

is it just me??? TELL me it's not just me that thinks this way!

[Princess Turandot]

44. Actually, I believe that JCAHO recently changed their approach..

to not giving hospitals advanced warning of the reviews. They also changed their scoring system to be more realistic. In the past, if you got a score below 90, you were probably violating every thing in the book, but most hospitals somehow got higher scores.

JCAHO reviews hospitals on behalf of the Medicare & Medicaid programs. You can lose your accreditation with those insurance programs, or even get closed down theoretically.

Here is the link to the JCAHO page where you can check on your hospital's last review:

http://www.jcaho.org/quality+check/index.htm

I have to add the caveat that when people are critical of not-for-profit hospitals, they need to consider the huge economic pressures on them. The vast majority of hospital employees are not physician fat cats. The folks who clean the floors and deliver the food usually would like to get an annual increase, at least one that covers cost of living. With cut backs in Medicaid, managed care contracts which do not provide for annual rate increases, and pressures to reduce Medicare spending, non-profit hospitals are between a rock and a hard place. Sky-rocketing drug costs don't help either. In many cases, hospitals are not the bad actors in this drama.

[Heddi]

46. This recent JCHAO visit was in June 2005 and the hospital knew

around February (March at the latest) that JCHAO was visiting because we, as student in the hospital, had to carry around with us SHITLOADS of forms in case we were approached by JCHAO and asked questions. "I'm a student" doesn't cut it with them, so we had to be as prepared as the staff, although to a markedly lesser degree.

I agree with your last paragraph. The hospitals aren't to blame, but the CEO of THIS hospital is. He has no medical background and no medical knowledge other than from a business standpoint.

There was a crisis a few months ago where they were short Cardiac OR nurses. Nurses were having to work triple shifts which is NOT good for patient safety or nurse morale. The CEO's suggestion---nurses should have no problem working 36-48 hours straight because other jobs require it. If the nurses have a problem there's another hospital in town they can go to.

ALOT of nurses had a strike about that, and with the JCHAO results that were made public recently, the hospital gave him a vote of 'no confidence'. This guy is pulling in MAJOR bucko's and the nurses (with 20 years experience) make around $35k an hour. They are moving in DROVES to Seattle where they can do 1/2 the work for 2x's the pay and under better working envinroment.

CNA's start out at $9 an hour--that's TWO DOLLARS more than minimum wage, and they carry the brunt of the work on teh floor because of the lack of nurses. ANd they wonder why patient care is lacking---you can't get a decent hamburger from someone who makes $9 an hour, but you expect to get top-notch patient care for the same price?

I fear that the mis-managment of hospital officials (NON-physicians, NON-healthcare professionals, I add) will cause this hospital to be run into the ground and become unsalvagable. That would be a huge detriment to our area, as the other hospital would be FORCED to pick up the slack (they already are doing that and are having a hard time with the increased patient loads).

That's bad for Dr's, Nurses, and patients AND the community.

[nashville_brook]

53. i worked for a guy who bought small specialty hospitals ...

he would take these wonderful little community hospitals and SUCK THEM DRY. he was a big Alamama Bulldog functional illiterate. when he started his "healthcare company" he already lived a lavish life outside of his means. as he started "buying" hospitals he and his wife went over the edge. bought a 1,500,000 house... renovated it.... threw huge expensive parties. his nasty wife was always in the office whininig about "her designers" or her "contractors" blah blah blah.

immediately he would get on the phone to a director of procurement and put the screws to them to cut costs.

you figure this stuff goes on...that there is a direct connection between someone's spoiled wife and your workplace going to hell -- then you think, naw... i'm just being mean. let me tell you... the connection was direct.

last i heard there's a class action lawsuit against him. i should look this up. eastmoreland hospital and woodland park hospital in portland, oregon. he was also going after a hospital in hawaii. whatever has become of him (symphony healthcare), i'm sure it's not enough.

[nashville_brook]

59. from bankrupt.com

OREGON: Former Hospital Workers Sue To Recover Wages, Benefits
--------------------------------------------------------------
Former Woodland Park Hospital employees have filed a class
action in hopes of recovering wages and benefits they claim are
being withheld by a Tennessee-based company that last week shut
down the Northeast Portland facility and its sister hospital in
Southeast Portland, Knight-Ridder / Tribune Business News
reports.

Two plaintiffs were included in the claim as of Tuesday
afternoon, but Portland attorney Giles Gibson said he expected
additional former workers from Woodland Park as well as
Eastmoreland Hospital to join the suit, filed Friday in the US
District Court in Portland, Oregon.

The hospital closings left about 500 workers jobless when
Symphony Healthcare, based in Nashville, Tennessee, shut down
the money-losing facilities. Ken Perry, Symphony's chief
executive officer, could not be reached for comment Tuesday but
earlier cited declining business and the company's exclusion
from large metro-area health insurance plans as the catalysts
for the closures.

The law firm of Goldberg, Mechanic, Stuart & Gibson helped the
workers seek class-action status under the federal Worker
Adjustment and Retraining Notification Act. Under the act,
employers with more than 100 workers must give 60 days' notice
when they close a work site with more than 50 workers or lay off
500 employees or one-third of a work site. Notice must be sent
to workers, local officials and the state's dislocated worker
unit. The act does not apply to some cases, including instances
of "unforeseen business circumstances."

Jacquelyn Schram, a former Woodland Park nurse, is the lead
plaintiff in the suit. Ms. Schram hasn't worked at the hospital
for several weeks as a result of a workplace injury and is not
owed back pay, Mr. Gibson, a partner at the law firm, told The
Tribune Business News.

However, under the WARN act, Mr. Gibson said, she and other
plaintiffs are entitled to recover lost benefits and wages that
she would have earned had she continued to work during the two
months after the hospital closed. Most of the former hospital
workers, who include nurses, technicians and therapists who
typically earn between $20 to $25 an hour, are owed about three
weeks of back pay, he said. Many workers also claim that funds
deducted from paychecks for 401(k) retirement accounts never
showed up in their accounts.

Upon hearing about the class action, Laura Maskell, former
president of Woodland Park's medical staff, said Tuesday that
she would soon gather with a group representing dozens of former
hospital workers to decide whether they should join the class
action.

Meanwhile, a group of unidentified doctors on the Woodland Park
medical staff, seeking to purchase the facility from Symphony,
on Monday evening agreed to hire an appraiser this week, Dianne
Danowski-Smith, a spokeswoman for the group told the Tribune
Business News.

[Princess Turandot]

45. To be a Medicare provider, it must participate in JCHAO reviews!..nt

[Bridget Burke]

48. You definitely had a bad experience.

But--how much does a window unit cost?

[porphyrian]

49. Was this in Florida?

JEB!'s state is fucking owned by the insurance cartel, at least, those with enough legal and political power to weather the lawsuits. If there is a competent medical institution, chances are you can't afford it, and insurance doesn't cover it.

[nashville_brook]

50. i went to the hospital with back paiin, not just any back pain

i had had that before. this was frightening, nauseating, incredible pain. off the pain chart. i was the only person in the ER. it took 2 hours for someone to see me once i got back to the exam area. he sent me home with a script for ibuprofen and vicodin.

a few hours later i thought i was going to die the pain was so bad. i went back. i had to BEG for treatment. the doc on call said the only thing he could do was give me an epidural and carried on about how it would hurt more. i said i didn't care. he went to far as to wave the damn needle in front of me as if to scare me off.

i got the epidural. they admitted me. promised i would get an mri the next day.

next day the pain still isn't under control. a new doc comes to my room and TELLS ME TO LEAVE. i can barely walk. i'm crying. i try to gather my things and my nurse comes in the room -- freaking out -- "what the hell are you doing?"

"i'm leaving,. the doc told me i had to leave. she said oh now you don't. and gave me a shot of morphine. she said that legally, i couldn't go anywhere for 6 hours. that would give my husband enough time to fly down. i was in florida re-habbing a house.

i start to run a fever. it goes up to 104 for days. everyday they try to discharge me. i don't get an MRI until the third day. the films were so bad my neurosurg couldn't read them.

long story short -- i contracted an infection in my spine. vertebreal osteomylietis. that causes massive blood clots in my legs. then i turn yellow like lisa simpson. hepititis. i spend five more months in the hospital.

Weustoff -- Melbourne, Florida -- stay the hell away.

postscript -- one night i call my nurse and she never comes. i was sick i couldn't care too much. later that night another nurse comes in my room laughing about what had just happened. a man in the room down the hall had fallen in the bathroom and pulled the cord. no one came. he had his cell phone with him. HE HAS TO CALL 911 from INSIDE the hospital to get someone to help him up.

[Catherine Vincent]

55. Wow!

That was a close call for you. Sorry that you had to go thru all that pain. Could they have done some lab work to discover that problem sooner?

[nashville_brook]

62. they *could* have done plenty -- but everyday they tried to discharge me

and let tell you -- bone pain is special. my back went into spasms that were demonic.

this mess is actually the reason why i have so much time to write and blog -- i can't work. i have chronic pain. will have it for the rest of my life. my discs are degenerating and causing all sorts of arthritis in my back and hips. i will never be completely rid of the infection either. it's always there, waiting for me to get sick enough to raise it's little head again. my legs have never recovered. i still have incredible pain in my veins. my liver will never be the same. i can't drink alcohol. everything changed.

i couldn't find any doctor to tell me what happened. it took imaging techs to give me the straight story. i couldn't find an attorney to take my case. they basically said i'd have to die to be able to get a suit going in florida. meanwhile, my life is totally changed.

[Catherine Vincent]

63. That is amazing.

I feel so bad for you. It's hard to believe they can't figure out how you got this infection. You would think they would try harder to recognize the warning signs and just so it can be prevented.

Hang in there.

[nashville_brook]

67. thankyou! :) i actually had doctors drop me as i tried to pursue the

origination of the infection -- my osteo surg, my neuro surg and my primary -- and the worst part -- i had to use Vancomycin intrvenously for 12 weeks. makes me wonder if i'll ever be able to use anitbiotics ever again.

this has been 2 years ago in june. it took till january of this year to get anyone to treat my pain. my primary care physician wouldn't even TALK TO ME about it. her nurse came in and WHISPERED the name of a pain clinic in my ear, saying that no one treats pain anymore -- they won't even REFER you to a pain clinic. you have to find all this out on your own.

if you want to get really depressed, check in on a Chronic Pain forum sometime. i use the MSN boards from time to time. so many horror stories!

[Desertrose]

70. Latest AARP mag has an article about how more people suffer from chronic

pain that ever before becuase MDs are afraid to prescribe the meds needed. Guess too many have been hauled in or even lost their licenses- just becuase the wanted to ease pain. Its a crazy world anymore.

It is ridiculous that anyone should suffer pain when there is relief ....I gained more respect more morphine just reading that article.


I am SO sorry you had to endure what you did....totally sucks!

:hug:
DR

[nashville_brook]

71. yep -- suck-o-rama... but, it's always something

as rosanne rosanna dana would say. i'm lucky they didn't kill me in that hospital.

[elehhhhna]

52. Sounds a lot like labor & delivery to me. In Labor? You're an IDIOT.

WTF would you know about your own damned body?

[LynneSin]

56. My biggest concern is will he be billed for procedures he didn't have....

...or the additional procedures he didn't need but was given.

What's really sad is if he is billed it'll cost just as much to get a lawyer to clean this mess up.

[Love Bug]

61. Better follow up and make sure they don't charge your dad

for the xrays and the catscan.

[pitohui]

64. well that is a scary situation

i've been on the other side of it tho

you cannot assume a sick 76 yr old man is correct and not confused, doctor has to assume staff is correct, be glad they caught the error after checking the cat scans

my grandmother claimed her daughter had not visited her in yrs, in fact, her daughter had just left the room, she was younger than yr dad at the time

what happens to the mind as we age is scary, doctors will err on the side of caution, if multiple persons (the staff) say something happened and a sick, drugged, or older patient says it didn't happen, the doctor must believe the staff or nothing ever gets done

hope yr dad gets well soon

not such an easy issue as it might seem

i know of no job where mistakes are never made

[mcar]

68. Contact the Risk Manager or Patient Advocate at the hospital

and file a complaint. There may also be an option for filing a complaint with a state agency or elder care organization.

I worked in a hospital for 9 years, in the administrative end. Even though it was a very good facility, my 3YO son was treated abominably in our ED. I don't know if it ever did any good, but I filed as many complaints as I could, primarily against the ER doctor with a god complex who diagnosed my son without ever actually examining him. :mad:

[w8liftinglady]

72. I'm a nurse,and the same thing happened to my mom

They almost didn't let me stay with her(she had breathing problems,too).Good thing I did-they gave her a breathing treatment,never checked her oxygen level,and were going to send her home.If I hadn't been a nurse,and known better,she probably would have died at home.They checked her Oxygen level,and it was 72%(normal is >90 %).She was in the hospital for 10 days.