Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

bush: we're very suspicious of Iran's Nuclear 'Desires'

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 12:58 PM
Original message
bush: we're very suspicious of Iran's Nuclear 'Desires'
Edited on Tue Aug-09-05 12:59 PM by mopaul
exact quote, on msnbc's blurb during bush's speech on the ranch today. bush war part three is coming to a theater of war near you
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. Just tuned in; what the hell is this about?
Is he preparing us for yet another shock and awe campaign? He had better not be...:grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kitkat65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. If he does, isn't it the point where he becomes a true war criminal
by starting war with a sovereign nation without congressional approval? Abuse of power, putting nationa in harm's way, etc. etc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. he already is one nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. they aren't allowed to have 'desires'
we're not bombing them for having the bomb, but for their desires.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BabboonBush Donating Member (72 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I seem to remember that
Congress approved something after 9/11 that gives the President the ability to wage war without Congressional approval. This was proposed, of course, by Bush.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kitkat65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. But wasn't that specifically for Iraq?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. No.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BabboonBush Donating Member (72 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. No,
I think that was established for any wartime situation where the President would be allowed to decide to go to war without Congressional approval.

I remember it was controversial - made Bush into a tyrant basically. I think it was decided in the heat of our post-9/11 security atmosphere, which Bushco used to their advantage.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Doesn't that go against the Constiution or is it a loop hole?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BabboonBush Donating Member (72 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. As I remember,
it was a Bush request that Congress approved. This supposedly would give Bush direct authorization to go to war without waiting out the Congressional approval period. With all that power to go to war, this is a very dangerous thing in the hands of a madman tyrant like Bush.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kitkat65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Well, fuck me. What is wrong with these people? Don't they have the power
Edited on Tue Aug-09-05 02:09 PM by kitkat65
to revoke it?

AND, what about the fact that the war was based on lies? Does that have any bearing?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kitkat65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. From Wikipedia: Iraq war resolution and War Powers Resolution
Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq

The Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq (H.J.Res. 114) was a resolution passed in October 2002 by the United States Congress authorizing what was soon to become the 2003 invasion of Iraq under the War Powers Resolution. The authorization was sought by U.S. President George W. Bush, and it passed the House by a vote of 296-133 and the Senate by a vote of 77-23, receiving significant support from both major political parties. It was signed into law by President Bush on October 16, 2002.

The act cited several factors to justify a war:
Iraq's noncompliance with the conditions of the 1991 cease fire
Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, and programs to develop such weapons, posed a "threat to the national security of the United States and international peace and security in the Persian Gulf region"
Iraq's "brutal repression of its civilian population"
Iraq's "capability and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction against other nations and its own people"
Iraq's hostility towards the United States as demonstrated by the 1993 assassination attempt of George Bush Sr, and firing on coalition aircraft enforcing the no-fly zones following the 1991 Gulf War
Iraq's connection to terrorist groups, including Al Qaeda
Fear that Iraq would provide weapons of mass destruction to terrorists for use against the United States

The act praised President Bush's diplomatic efforts at the UN Security Council to "obtain prompt and decisive action by the Security Council to ensure that Iraq abandons its strategy of delay, evasion and noncompliance and promptly and strictly complies with all relevant Security Council resolutions." It authorized him to use military force to "defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq." Before being permitted to use force, the President was required to determine that further diplomatic efforts alone would not satisfactorily protect the United States or ensure Iraq's compliance with UNSC resolutions.

The act was significant in that it did not require the President to obtain UN Security Council authorization. Further, even if Iraq complied with UNSC resolutions, the President was still authorized to attack in order to protect the United States. This was, in effect, approval for Bush to act unilaterally. This was viewed among American conservatives as a major impetus for the UNSC's unanimous adoption of UN Security Council Resolution 1441 a few weeks later.


The War Powers Resolution (Public Law 93-148) limits the power of the President of the United States to wage war without the approval of the Congress. The Resolution is sometimes referred to as the War Powers Act, but that is an older law intended to define limits on trade with enemies during wartime.

History
The Senate and the House of Representatives achieved the 2/3 majority required to pass this joint resolution over President Nixon's veto on November 7, 1973.

Provisions
Portions of the War Powers Resolution require the President to consult with Congress prior to the start of any hostilities as well as regularly until U.S. armed forces are no longer engaged in hostilities (Sec. 3); and to remove U.S. armed forces from hostilities if Congress has not declared war or passed a resolution authorizing the use of force within 60 days (Sec. 5(b)). Following an official request by the President to Congress, the time limit can be extended by an additional 30 days (presumably when "unavoidable military necessity" requires additional action for a safe withdrawal).

Questions about constitutionality
Every president to date has declared the War Powers Resolution to be unconstitutional, and the Supreme Court has struck down the 'legislative veto' embodied in Section 5(c) of the Resolution in the case INS v. Chadha (1983). However, in every instance since the act was passed, the President has requested and received authorization for the use of force (though not a formal declaration of war) consistent with the provisions of the resolution. The reports to Congress required of the President have been drafted to state that they are "consistent with" the War Powers Resolution rather than "pursuant to" so as to take into account the Presidential position that the Resolution is unconsitutional.

One argument for the unconstitutionality of the War Powers Resolution — Philip Bobbitt's in "War Powers: An Essay on John Hart Ely's War and Responsibility: Constitutional Lessons of Vietnam and Its Aftermath," Michigan Law Quarterly 92, no. 6 (May 1994): 1364–1400 — runs as follows: "The power to make war is not an enumerated power" and the notion that to "declare" war is to "commence" war is a "contemporary textual preconception"; the Framers of the Constitution believed that statutory authorization was the route by which the United States would be committed to war, and that 'declaration' was only meant for total wars, as shown by the history of the French Naval War (1798–1800); in general, constitutional powers are not so much separated as "linked and sequenced"; Congress's control over the armed forces is "structured" by appropriation, while the president commands; thus the act of declaring war should not be fetishized. (It should be noted, however, that Bobbitt, the nephew of Lyndon Johnson, also argues that "A democracy cannot… tolerate secret policies" because they undermine the legitimacy of governmental action.)

The intended purpose of the act was to serve as a check on the power of the President to commit the United States to military action by exercising the constitutional authority of Congress to declare war under Article One. Many constitutional scholars have questioned the usefulness of the resolution, pointing out that Congress has tended to defer to the Executive when conducting war.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Yes, building nuclear power plants instead of relying on polluting fossil
fuels is a highly suspicious activity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. Wickerman: I am very suspicious of Bush*'s Iranian desires n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. Bush and B-liar have been wanting to
B $ B have been wanting to invade Iran for awhile. I expect they will arrange another terror attack and blame it on the Iranians. Just like before?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BabboonBush Donating Member (72 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Now THAT
is a very provacative statement. Admittedly, I have wondered this myself. Probably many people do but are afraid to admit it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. I think if politicians want to win elections
politicians will do anything to win power whether it be local or global. Sometimes I'm embarassed about our own party (Dems).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
12. Will the twins lead the charge?
No... then maybe this racket ain't worth spending lives on
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
14. If you can
go to http://weekendinterviewshow.com/ and look for Philip Giraldi. He talks a lot about Iran and it's very interesting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
19. He's a freudian slip
How many people actually equate nuclear bombs with "desire"? He is so transparent. Thinks a bomb would be a sexual turn-on--like a great big orgasm.

He must have a really small yoohoo.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
21. Get ready for martial law.
I believe Bush, in order to avoid the death penalty for treason, will MIHOP again (nuke a US city?) and then institute martial law... I hope I am wrong. I bet they are planning this right now, since they know Fitzgerald is gonna nail them. :scared:

Say goodbye to Tehran, etc.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC