Do any DUers oppose Bush, yet think the Iraq Invasion was NOT a mistake?

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

Since the Iraq invasion and occupation is the one thing that the Bush II administration will be associated with, now and forever in history, they deserve full credit or blame for this.

I view this as close to a litmus test on Bush as anything could be. There are plenty of other reasons to oppose this administration, but I almost feel that if you think that they were and continue to be RIGHT about what the U.S. has done in Iraq, you SHOULD support them.

I feel the term "mistake" is not strong enough, because it almost implies good intentions but an error in calculation.

[Hissyspit]

1. It was a scam.

Pure and simple. A scam on the American people.

[greatauntoftriplets]

2. Not me.

The invasion of Afghanistan was an enormous mistake as well. As was the war on Iraq in 1991 and Vietnam.

Damn Gulf of Tonkin Resolution was passed on my 15th birthday. Jeez, was I pissed or what. I saw that as a farce as well.

Throughout this time, I keep thinking of the great Barbara Tuchman's history "The March of Folly". It makes me sad that she is gone, because what is going on now would make for several excellent chapters.

Perhaps someone one day will write it. I hope so, because I will read it.

[JAbuchan08]

3. I think the Dem party is pretty united on Iraq

I actually remember when people would openly defend Iraq on these boards, and I'm talking non-trolls.

But no more

[damntexdem]

8. Maybe much of the Party is, after all a big majority of all people are, ..

but unfortunately, not all Democratic elected officials have caught on.

[JAbuchan08]

16. Why not? I'm asking rhetorically, but don't these fuc*kers realize

which way the wind is blowing?

[leftchick]

30. Not Biden, Clinton or Lieberman to name a few

they have not gotten the clue that the MAJORITY of Americans think Iraq is a mistake. They want "more troops, more troops".

:grr:

[glarius]

4. Bush and his buddies are responsible for the death of 100,000 Iraqis

not to mention all those young American soldiers!...There was NO REASON for this ILLEGAL war....Enough said!

[ignatius 2]

5. Nope,I was against him,spawn of another lying,murdering hypocrite,

and I was against and protested against the war from the beginning.

[damntexdem]

6. Oh, it wasn't a "mistake," no, it was and remains ...

a premeditated crime.

[OrwellwasRight]

7. You're kidding, right?

OK, I actually do have a friend who opposes Bush and yet was sold (hook, line, and sinker) on the Sadaam Hussein is an immediate threat argument.

I don't consider her a real Democrat though. She tells me that I have to shut up when I start talking about how we are on the road to fascism. She says that kind of talk minimizes the Holocaust. So I ask her how she thinks the Holocaust started if not by people just passively letting others lose their rights and trusting that it wouldn't go to far.

So whatever. I don't know if that answers your question or not. Sorry.

[AlamoDemoc]

9. It was illegal and monstrously unjust war

and history will record it as the most destructive and expensive war in the 21st century

[rumpel]

10. It was never a mistake, it was a calculated crime.

[Carni]

11. Huge ass mistake IMO

I know I am going to get called every name in the book by somebody for this but Saddam actually kept a sort of balance in that region that was beneficial to the west IMO.

Was his reign right for the Iraqi people? Probably not but given the fact that I have never lived in Iraq and am not an Iraqi I cannot say that with any level of confidence...and aside from all that he was THEIR bastard and their's to dispose of, not ours.

We had no place there. I am not even sure we would have had any rightful place there if he DID HAVE WMD's (unless he declared war on us which would have been about as likely as monkey's flying out of Cheney's butt)

The US invasion took the Iraqi people out of the frying pan and threw them into the fire. This illegal action based on lies has benefitted NO ONE (not even bush by the looks of his recent polls)

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

19. It HAS benefitted Bush, because he wouldn't even be in office now,

if it hadn't been for this war, even though it may be his undoing in this term (we can only hope).

[jmowreader]

32. Saddam Hussein was our boy in the Middle East...

until he decided to start taking Euros for his oil. Then he had to go.

All international oil transactions are conducted in US dollars. If you are an oil company in a nation where the dollar is not the official currency (there are several where it is), you must buy dollars before you buy oil. This is one of the reasons we have the lowest fuel prices in the world: we don't have to pay to trade our currency for dollars since our currency is dollars already, and we're not worrying about fluctuations in the currency market because, once again, our official currency is the official currency of the oil business.

Saddam was considering accepting either dollars or Euros for Iraqi oil sold under oil for food and if the embargo was ever lifted totally. Lotsa problems here for the US. If you're in the Euro zone, there's no currency-trading problem here: just call the Iraqi Ministry of Oil. If you're out of the Euro zone but not in a dollar-using country, you'll choose dollars or Euros for today's oil transactions based on the cost of currency and the cost of oil. If you're a non-Iraqi producer, you're almost forced to accept Euros just to maintain parity with Iraq. All these things work to destroy the value of the dollar--right now, the dollar is the most important currency largely because it is used to buy the most important commodity.

When you put Saddam up against the other dictators in that region, he comes out looking fairly good. This is because the other dictators in that region are all excruciatingly bad. Saddam's secular government didn't get into Sharia law, and that makes all the difference. I remember many years ago, a couple of Americans were caught stealing in Saudi Arabia and were sentenced to have their right hands and left feet cut off with a sword, and to be put into prison until this sentence could be carried out. The press talked to some Saudi legal scholars about this and were informed that the judge just wanted to "scare" these young men. The sentence wouldn't be carried out and all Saudis knew this. You see, all Saudis know that the Sharia punishment for stealing is to have your LEFT hand cut off with a sword. Now let me ask you something: how screwed up is it when everyone in the whole fucking country knows you're not REALLY going to have your hand cut off because the judge would have sentenced you to lose your left hand if they were really going to cut one off? And what's more fucked up is that everyone thought letting someone sit in jail for a year...wondering every morning if today is the day six huge men are going to come to your cell and drag you to the public square so the headsman could mutilate you in front of a festival crowd...was an okay punishment because they weren't REALLY going to cut off their right hands.

Let's put it this way: if Saddam Hussein was the Kuwaiti dictator instead of the Iraqi dictator the day after the shooting stopped in Desert Storm, he probably wouldn't have rebuilt the palace to its former splendor while he demanded the US Army get the waterworks running again...you know, like the Kuwaitis did.

[Carni]

33. I totally agree

I am hip to everything you just mentioned--the only reason the Iraqi people put up with billboard man is because he was better than the radical right religious nutjobs that he kept at bay.

Iraq regardless of what our media wants us to think, was in many ways very westernized and Saddam kept sharia law at bay.

If I had to choose a leader I doubt it would be Saddam but he was heads and shoulders above what those poor bastards are dealing with now!

[jmowreader]

34. I'll tell you the most disgusting thing

If, right now, the United States let Saddam Hussein out of prison, sent him back to Iraq and told him to run in a free, fair election in which all Iraqis at least 18 years old were allowed to participate, I think Saddam would win by at least five percent.

[Carni]

37. I think you are right

I have read article after article stating that the only reason the people put up with Saddam is because he held the fundies and their Sharia law at bay.

I am not saying I approve of the man, or am a fan of him but I don't see where Iraqs leader was any of the United State's business in general (even if he did have *WMD* who the hell doesn't these days?)

bush co basically handed Iraq and all it's citizens over to Iran--
so much for his "spreading freedom"

[Just Me]

12. Betrayal,...is a serious violation.

Period.

[jobycom]

13. There were some here before the war arguing for it

But I think they believed the UN WMD speech. I doubt they still support it, now that the lies have been exposed.

[cloud75]

14. the war was a faliure as soon as it was discovered there were no wmd n/t

[Ian David]

15. I believed Collin Powell when he said Iraq had WMDs

I didn't believe Bush.

But when Powell stood at the podium and pointed at the pictures, I believed him.

And then when I saw pictures of people looting the art museums, I knew we'd been scammed.

[lildreamer316]

17. We could have taken Saddam out without all this.

I don't know if he needed taking out or not; I don't really think I am qualified to make that decision. But if he REALLY wanted to take him out he could have done so with a surgical strike if our intelligence community was all it is cracked up to be.
As it is, this whole thing was needless....unless you want oil. Crap.

[cloud75]

18. bush was my governor for six years i've known him to be a liar many years

before he was the president...i knew that every move he made was for political reasons...the war was one of them...his plan was gain extreme popularity with victory in iraq..

[pox americana]

20. I've come across quite a few.

They generally do not admit to supporting the war. Instead they find ways of silencing opposition to it.

[omega minimo]

21. Good question

:popcorn:

[Generic Other]

22. I believed before 2000 that we would invade Iraq if Bush won

He told us so. "Saddam tried to hurt my daddy."

Everytime I looked at Bush's face, I saw death's shadow. Remember when he got the gleam in his eye when he talked about the death penalty in Texas? In that look I saw our country's future.

I remember when there were so few of us that we could hardly find one another. When the rest of our countrymen were so consumed with fear and desire for blood that anything we could do or say seemed futile.

Lots more people have come to the same conclusions I reached so long ago. I don't feel so alone with my horror at Bush's evil plans anymore.

[spanone]

23. NO.... Pre-emptive War is Seriously Flawed....Obviously

IRAQ DID NOT ATTACK AMERICA. PERIOD. THIS WAS A CRIME.

[Sgent]

24. At first I supported him

Then I found out he lied.

Now I agree with Paul Hacketts opinions on the issue -- we broke it, we have to fix it or find someone else to do it.

At some point I might be willing to abondon the people, but I at least am not there yet.

[nookiemonster]

25. Face it America, this fucking administration punked us.

They're evil but far from stupid. This "war" was most certainly a planned event.

This only feeds my 9/11 MIHOP belief, but that's just me.

:silly:

[eallen]

26. That gives far too much importance to Iraq.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

27. You disagree that Iraq War is the one thing Bush II is and will be

most identified with?

If not Iraq, what then?

[eallen]

29. What do we associate with Nixon? Corruption.

[applegrove]

28. We were scammed into war. And they carried it out with incompetence.

That doesn't mean Saddam was not a horrid monster. It just means neocons are wrong whatever they do - because they have proven to be always wrong.

[mwb970]

31. It's the worst foreign policy blunder in American history.

Future historians will not be kind to the Chimp.

[RandomKoolzip]

35. I'd be against ANY president who invaded Iraq like Bush did...

I don't care if it was Clinton, Carter, FDR, whatever...if they went into Iraq the way Bush did, fuck 'em. The invasion of Iraq based on falsified intelligence is a crime that goes beyond political ideologies.

[WeRQ4U]

36. I got duped by the misinformation and post 9-11 fear propaganda.

But in hindsight, you better believe that I think it was a mistake. And I cannot express how pissed off I am at this administration for lying to me and actually making me think that it wasn't.