Is the term "White Power" racist?

[dhinojosa]

Poll question: Is the term "White Power" racist?

I have seen on people's cars, and on a tatoo once on someone's leg the words "White Power". So this poll is:

Do you consider the term "White Power" racist?

P.S. Also keep in mind that people have signs, tatoos, etc. that say "Black Power" "Brown Power".

[ck4829]

1. This white guy says: "Yes!"

[Solly Mack]

2. Sure as shit is

[geek tragedy]

3. Yes, and so is the Aryan Brotherhood.

Did this really need to be a poll question?

[DistressedAmerican]

4. Are You Kidding Me? Just Google It!

Tell me how many non-racist sites come up!

No poll needed...

[Fescue4u]

5. Yes,but so is "Black Power"

Or any other "<race> Power" terms.

[MercutioATC]

8. Agreed. (nt)

[K-W]

13. That isnt neccessarily true.

It depends on the context. It isnt racist unless it refers to racial superiority. If it simply refers to empowerment it is not racist.

Since white people are not currently descriminated against as a class, it is very unlikely anyone would use "white power" to refer simply to the empowerment of whites. But that is exactly why those who use the term claim that whites are descriminated against.

[Fescue4u]

33. Its not rocket science here

" It isnt racist unless it refers to racial superiority."

Lets see. TWO WORDS...."<race>" and "Power"

So 50% of it assigned superiority, the other 50% identifies a race.

Yup, according to your test, its racist.

[K-W]

40. Wow, that is rediculous.

Needless to say, the word power does not mean superiority.

[Zenlitened]

14. Totally disagree, considering "power" has been entirely...

... a "white" thing in the U.S.

Can someone who espouses "black power" be a racist? Yep, absolutely.

But the concept as a whole is a reaction to gross inequity, not simply another type of racism. Defense, not offense.

[Terran]

18. WRONG

The phrase "Black Power" was created as a response to white racism, and has nothing to do with Black people dominating or killing whites or anything of that sort. It is solely about the survival of Black people as a group.

"White Power", on the other hand, was a response to people of color demanding to be treated equally under the law, and is about nothing less than White people maintaining their traditional dominance over people of color. It's also inextricably linked with white violence against people of color.

[Fescue4u]

32. So its a one way street?

mmmm kay...

Frankly I don't care what the term is "about".

Its two words, 50% of which focuses on race, the other 50% focus oppressing everyone else.

Pretty damn racist no matter what excuse is attached to it (from any race group)

[K-W]

41. You need to invest in a dictionary, make sure it has a P section.

The word power does not mean oppressing other people anymore than it means superiority.

Your argument is patently absurd.

[Fescue4u]

58. SO then neither is racist?

Your views sure are confusing!

[Terran]

44. In this case, yes.

You seem to be ignoring the context and intended meaning of both phrases, which frankly is kind of, well, um, er, I can't say what it is, but you get my drift. If you did that with all language, you wouldn't understand anything anybody said. It's not just about the words themselves, it's about what people intend them to mean.

[Fescue4u]

59. Sounds pretty hypocritical

But whatever suits you.

[noiretextatique]

51. racial politics in america have never been fair or equal

the term "white power" is not inherently racist, but it has been used by white supremacists, hence it has a racist context.
the term "black power" is not inherently racist either, but may well have seem racist to some who know absolutely nothing about american race relations.
in reality, the black power movement was more a reponse to white supremacy than a statement of black supremacy. it was about crafting an affirmative sub-cultural identity in a hostile dominant culture vs. creating the black version of the KKK.

[Fescue4u]

61. I agree with that.

Sounds like quite a few folks want to enjoy racist slurs while calling others racist.

I guess if that serves their hypocritical political interests then apparently its ok.

[Raksha]

70. It all depends on what meaning you attach to the word "power."

Power in terms of empowerment (power-from-within), or power in terms of domination (power-over). In neither phrase, "White Power" or "Black Power" is the type of power spelled out, and yet which one you mean is absolutely critical. My take is that "Black Power" in context usually means empowerment rather than domination, while "White Power" is an expression of the whiny sense of injured privilege emanating from those who are used to ruling the world, and who can't understand why anyone is contesting their "right" to rule it indefinitely.

[noiretextatique]

78. in terms of cultural context

i would say that's very accurate.
when it comes to this topic, it seems context magically disappears for many and we get into these ridiculous parsing of definitions discussions about the absolute meaning of words, devoid of any social or cultural or political or historical context.

[Zenlitened]

80. Well said.

...context magically disappears for many and we get into these ridiculous parsing of definitions discussions about the absolute meaning of words, devoid of any social or cultural or political or historical context.

:thumbsup:

Happens in threads about feminism, too. This presumably progressive discussion board can surprise ya, sometimes!

[noiretextatique]

84. p-r-i-v-i-l-e-g-e

"The chief privilege of privilege is ignorance, feigned or real."
-noiretblu :7

[Zenlitened]

88. Sweeeet! I like that!

:applause:

[noiretextatique]

91. thanks to DU

i came up with that :-(

[Zenlitened]

95. That which does not kill you makes you...

... really good at coining a catchy phrase!

:hi:

[noiretextatique]

106. good point

:rofl: touche!

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fescue4u]

66. nope...are you?

should I be afraid now that Im being watched?

Are you from Homeland Security?


But if you want examples of the other racism, you'll find plenty over there

[ultraist]

73. I agree, Terran

Black power=empowerment of an oppressed race
White Power=continued domination and superiority over other races

The terms must be put in context. Whites have NEVER been the oppressed race in the US.

[KingFlorez]

92. I agree

I think Black Power was used more in terms of fighting a struggle against oppression

[donheld]

49. Then as a gay man, me saying "queer power"

Is that heterophobic?

[Fescue4u]

60. of course

[Zenlitened]

63. How about "Gay Pride" Is that derogatory toward heterosexuals too?

:shrug:

[Fescue4u]

65. Why would being Proud about being Happy

be derogatory against heterosexuals?

:)

Lets stay on topic. We are talking about racism, not about gays.

[Zenlitened]

69. So, empowerment is bad, pride is okay?

I think you're kind of flailing here, honestly.

Why is "queer power" just as objectionable to you as "black power"?

Your definition of "power" is loaded with incorrect assumptions in either case, and totally devoid of historical context. You're trying to make this into a matter of "reverse racism" when that's not the case at all. Good luck. :eyes:

[Fescue4u]

74. There is no such thing as reverse racism

At least in my opinion.

"insert object/person/saying" are either racist or not.

As for your statement...""Why is "queer power" just as objectionable to you as "black power"?"...well its not. Why would you assume such a thing? Yes there are some .weak. analogys to your term "queer power" vs "black power"/"white power", but they are weak at best.

While their are simliarites between homophobia and racism, its an entirely different issue with different built stereotypes, assumptions and rights and wrong.

Back to the subject at hand:

Its a simple term. TWO WORDS. "<race> POWER".

The term focuses on race and as such it is inherently racist.

The question to the individual, is whether that type of racism is a good thing or a bad thing.

TO me, *ALL* racism is bad. But to others some racism is good if it promotes a certain race. This is true for the KKK. This is true for the Nation of Islam.

Most of the folks in this thread are relating to the feelings that the term emotes....THATS OK (and I understand that argument). But Im not addressing feelings, but strictly fact.

For better or for worse "<race> POWER" is racist.

[Zenlitened]

77. Yee-ikes. Why would I assume such a thing?

Read your own posts, would you? Like, your response to #49, for starters.

How about "Black Pride"? That term focuses on race, too. So, by your shallow definition, that'd be racist, right?

:crazy:

In any event, your argument "it's racist because it's racist!" isn't very convincing, no matter how many times you repeat it.

[Fescue4u]

83. As for my response to #49

I was incorrect.

Sure I could proably still edit it now, but thats fine. I can admit a mistake.

The term "queer power" doesnt reference heteros at all.

To coin a term, it might be sexuallyorientedist.

STILL..were not discussing homophobia. BACK to the subject at hand.

You ask the question:"How about "Black Pride"? That term focuses on race, too. So, by your shallow definition, that'd be racist, right?
"

Let me change *ONE* word of your question which will answer it quite succiently.

"How about "WHITE Pride"? That term focuses on race, too. So, by your shallow definition, that'd be racist, right? (Me: you bet it is)

Anytime you focus on race, its racist. Simple logic.

[Zenlitened]

86. "Anytime you focus on race, its racist. Simple logic."

Simple crap. Simply one of the most absurd statements I've read on DU in a while.

Again... the CONTEXT is everything here. Historical imbalances in power. Historical efforts to denigrate nonwhites as "inferior."

Why you insist on pretending context has no bearing is beyond me.

[Fescue4u]

90. Context DOES have meaning.

I spelled that out quite clearly a few post up.

However, anytime you focus on race, IT IS RACIST.

The next question is whether that type of racism is acceptable.

Lets take Affirmative Action.

Is that a racist program? Of course it is. Is that kind of racism acceptable? Yes it is..That kind of racism is acceptable to most of the American public as a method of ending centuries of injustice.

Lets take the KKK.

Is that racist organization acceptable. Hell NO! They focus on race just as much as the administrators of AA. But the vast majority of Americans reject (as do I) that kind of racism.

[Zenlitened]

93. Uh, I'm out. I really don't think I'm going to get dragged into...

... a discussion of what you consider "acceptable racism."

:silly:

[Fescue4u]

94. fine

I thought we were moving towards agreement.

It must be a privledge to close ones ears and listen to the sound of silence.

[Zenlitened]

96. You flatter yourself. Believe me, we're not moving toward agreement.

As for closing one's ears... I'd say that's a matter of "the pot calling the kettle black," but who knows where THAT would lead. :crazy:

[Fescue4u]

97. Hey Im willing to continue the discussion

Its not me who feels the need to run.

(btw, I was trying to flatter YOU, that you were coming around to my viewpoint)

[Zenlitened]

98. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

:rofl:

Repeating the same flawed argument over and over again does not = discussion.

Are you for real? :rofl:

[Fescue4u]

100. Oh good, you are back !

I figured you wouldnt stay gone for long.

The balls in your court.

(to recap)
I agree with Affirmative Action

I vehmently disagree with KKK, Aryan Nation etc.

All are race focused groups (or programs) and by definition racist.

disagree?

[Zenlitened]

101. I'm back only to laugh and laugh and laugh. Seriously.

:D

[Fescue4u]

102. You keep promising to go away

Yet you keep replying?

Must have the last word?

Not willing to admit defeat?


WHich is it?

[Zenlitened]

103. "I'm rubber, you're glue, what bounces off me sticks to you"

Nyah nyah! :silly:

Your turn. Go ahead and invent some more nonsense.

[Fescue4u]

105. Tell ya what. I'll feed your precious ego

And let you have the last word.

(Its ok. My children are the same way, so I understand your issues)

So, we'll just have to agree, to agree on this one.

buh bye! And please do enjoy that last word and let it fill you with joy!

[donheld]

75. Whatever dude

:eyes:

[ultraist]

76. No, "queer power" is not heterophobic

It's a call for empowerment and equality, NOT, domination or superiority as is white power.

[jeffrey_X]

82. Yes...because they have sooo much power.

using "power" when you are the oppressor is a far different cry than using the term when you are in the minority.

[Fescue4u]

87. Oh I agree with that 100%

Usuage of the term connotes FAR different meanings.

But the question is the term, not about the many layered and nuances of baggage they carry.

But its still racist.

[liberalitch]

6. Not if you're an albino wrestler......

You could get some "props" from a name like that.

[The Straight Story]

7. Maybe the poll should ask the same about black power

ala your mention of it. Might be interesting to see the responses/reasoning.

[lukasahero]

17. When the world has been ruled by "Black power" for a few thousand years

that might be a legitimate question. Until then, in my book, white power = racist, black power = pride.

[The Straight Story]

21. I suppose that is somewhat subjective

Africa was ruled by blacks for a rather long time, not to mention many other non-white countries who rule quite a bit of the world (India, China, Middle East, Japan, Korea, and so on). Whites are outnumbered in this world and the number of them with real power is small percentage wise compared to the total number of whites in existence.

[Zenlitened]

25. Large portions of Africa & the Mideast, not to mention China and India...

have been dominated by Europeans for long periods in the past.

I think your argument falls a bit flat

[Fescue4u]

62. Well isnt that convenient

lmao

"in my book, white power = racist, black power = pride."


The KKK has a VERY similiar view, with just a minor distinction.

Congratulations!

[noiretextatique]

81. until fairly recently in american history

the KKK was not a fringe organization. and of course the reasons the KKK came into existence was to enforce the doctrine of white supremacy.

[Fescue4u]

85. And it was as wrong then as it is wrong today

Thankfully it is a fringe organization because many (not all) have learned from the errors of their past, or their ancestors past.

Lets let that trend continue.

[noiretextatique]

89. it was accepted then

because the doctrine of white supremacy was more acceptable then, as law and custom. fear of a backlash was more of a motivation, for both the creation of the KKK, and its subsequent fall from acceptability.
few have truly learned anything, but less are being taught the old customs.

[dhinojosa]

20. I agree...

I will.

[Norquist Nemesis]

9. Absolutely! It's not the words but

what the "term" is associated with. The term is a brand name for racism.

[WeRQ4U]

39. This is my feeling as well.

What the term REPRESENTS is what makes it hateful. "White power" was used as a slogan for violent hate mongers. WHen you hear it, you KNOW what's going on. It's synonymous with the Swastika in my opinion. The term "Black Power" is associated with fights for equality amognst citizens. When you hear of it, you think civil rights struggles, not violent oppression.

[YOY]

10. Unless you are talking about "The Whitening Power of Clorox Bleach"

then the answer is 'yes'.

[dhinojosa]

19. RACIST!!! (Just kidding) nt :)

[YOY]

26. One can't help but wonder if the KKK use more bleach than regular folks

to keep those pretty sheets dazzling white!

...and starch to keep the dunce-hats pointy.

[kweerwolf]

11. I can't imagine any context where it wouldn't be racist ...

... unless maybe you are using the phrase to sell a particular brand of bleach (and even then I think it would be iffy!).

Terms like "Black Power," "Brown Power," etc. don't bother me because they are used as expressions of solidarity by oppressed minorities. But "White Power" seems to me like it reinforces traditional power structures in an attempt to elevate the oppressor and keep the oppressed down.

[wurzel]

12. "White Power" is racist. "Black Power" is not racist.

"White Power" means the power to dominate. "Black Power" means the power to be equal.

[Paulie]

15. Amen

When you're in power, then claiming white power means the power to OPPRESS!

[K-W]

16. To be fair, some people do use black power to mean superiority.

And in that context it is racist, but you are right, that is not the crux of the black power movement just a fringe belief.

[SupplySideLiberal]

22. And to be fair, some mental deficients may use "white power" innocently,

thinking they are just taking pride in their heritage and ignoring the shameful history of those words.

It's a very safe bet, though, that if you see "white power" you're looking at a racist. That is not true when you see "black power".

[K-W]

23. Agreed EOM

[Cleita]

24. Without a doubt, unless they are talking about laundry detergent.

On edit I thought I would explain. I don't object to underclasses using the word power, like Black Power or Women Power, because they are struggling for true equality. But white men have access to the best schools, jobs, and property, and every other entitlement first so for them to want more power says to me that they want exclusive power. This is why I think it's racist.

[Jack_DeLeon]

27. No more so then Black Power...

which is to say yes.

[Terran]

45. Sigh. See post #29

and several others in this thread. The phrase "Black Power" has nothing to do with racism or racial supremacy.

[htuttle]

28. Yes, no language exists in a vacuum

To point to a phrase and attempt to describe it's meaning without looking at how that phrase is actually used is either ignorant or disingenuous.

I have never seen the phrase 'White Power' used by someone who wasn't either a white supremacist, or was referring to white supremacists.

Language is more than etymology. Nobody uses the phrase 'white power' to refer to the power of the color white in interior decorating schemes, for example. It only refers to white supremacists and their goals, in my experience.

It is NOT equivalent to 'Black Power' or 'Brown Power'. Those were slogans adopted by movements of people attempting to obtain equality and respect under the law (and from society). 'White Power' was adopted by groups who attempt to promote white supremacy.

[Ms. Clio]

29. Yes, because what it actually means is, "White Supremacy"

and support for a social system in which whites remain dominant.

[The Magistrate]

30. That Is The Essential Point, Ma'am

The term is a mere euphemism, open declarations of supremacy having passed out of fashion....

[Ms. Clio]

54. Represented most graphically by the lynchers' noose

Another essential difference between the historical realities of "white power" and "black power."

[ulysses]

31. yes.

Had African-Americans or Latinos had the same centuries-long legacy of race-based power as whites have had, "black power" or "brown power" would be racist too. But they haven't.

[tomg]

34. Racist and, unfortunately,

redundant, at least given the distribution ( or lack thereof) of power and wealth in this country. The irony is that those who publically espouse "white power" ( on their cars, through tatoos, and in myriad other ways)are most often drawn from the working poor and the economically marginalized ( you'll find it on a beat-up camarro sitting on blocks a lot sooner than you will,say, on a BMW). As much as it is racist, and it clearly is, it seems to me to be equally a venting of that particular group of people's sense of utter powerlessness in the only way they know how.

[shanti]

35. there are lots of racist tatoos

ever see a spiderweb tattooed on someone's elbow? that's a white power symbol, most likely originated in prison.

[dhinojosa]

55. I didn't know that.

thanks. :hi:

[Fescue4u]

99. Interesting I didnt know that

I've seen those in the past, but I didnt realize there was a deeper meaning behind it.

[WeRQ4U]

36. Not if it's a Utility Company owned by the White family.............

"If you want what's best, choose White Power"

[slackmaster]

37. Yes, and so is any other term that tries to elevate one race over others

:nuke:

[Terran]

47. Such as...?

I can't really think of any other terms used by other ethnic group to "elevate" themselves over other people. Except other terms used by racist whites.

[slackmaster]

48. Louis Farrakhan using the term "white devils" is racism

It is clearly intended to elevate blacks to a higher status than whites.

I don't consider "black power" to be racist because in context it means bring black people up to a par with others.

[Terran]

50. Ok, yes.

Of course, Farrakhan is a singular nutcase. He's not only racist but just plain freaky.

[slackmaster]

52. Freaky but always good for a chuckle

I enjoyed it when Saturday Night Live's news parody compared Farrakhan with the late Senator Paul Simon because they both frequently wore dark suits, white shirts, and red bow ties.



Farrakhan has gone for regular neck stranglers of late.

[noiretextatique]

53. yep...and the black muslims are about as popular among black people

as the KKK is among white people :7 racist nitwits do come in every color. but unlike the KKK, the never NOI had any real mainstream support. i believe there was a time when the KKK was considered a relatively mainstream organization.

[The Magistrate]

68. That Is True, Ma'am

It is an uncomfortable history. Woodrow Wilson considered it a noble organization legitimately rsisting Reconstruction, a la "Birth of a Nation"; in the nineteen-twenties the Klan controlled political life in Indiana....

[noiretextatique]

79. it is the history

that many don't seem to know much about.

[jokerman93]

38. Maybe, maybe not

But it sure as hell is redundant. Those who use such a term have a tenuous grasp of the world around them.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

42. Is the Pope a Catholic? Are sheets a fashion statement?

When the "white power" folks stick there arms out, are the just showing off the cleanliness of their fingertips?

[AllieB]

43. Yes it is

[Cooley Hurd]

46. Unless it's the name of a new laundry detergent...

...I'd say "yes."

[Endangered Specie]

56. Yes, but ive been known to use the term...

"LEFT POWER!" (that is, for us oppressed left handed people :))

[izzybeans]

57. Any phrase essentializing categorizations based on presumed

biological characteristics, whether on ethnic or color lines, is inherently racist. Using "white" and "black" to identify the "other" is inescapably racist because we use race to organize social groups in arbitrary little enclaves...and so powerfully that we still segregate ourselves accordingly even though we are no longer being forced to.

That's why identity politics are self-defeating...they accept the very premise (in this case racist) that divides them (without erasing "the colour line" that defines their division).

Imagine some of our ancestors spending a bit more time closer to the equator than others, then migrating either voluntarily or through the slave trade, and then we "moderns", who inherited these arbitrary distinctions, sit here and bicker over such things like skin color without ever confronting the very sad past that such a distinction created. It feels good to say, "My neighborhood is diverse so I'm okay." Really? The very nature of your concept of diversity is built on the notion that there is a mixing of incompatible "races" rather than on the formation of a united community where "race" doesn't REALLY matter...a community where race no longer exists-where it was abolished.

For me its nothing more than an empty platitude to distinguish between whose racism is more justified. It's comforting to know that we are just being reactionaries and are fighting back in a dialectical fashion. Of course a backlash is justified and expected, after years of oppression, violence, and even genocide...however perhaps we are are coming to a point distant enough were its time to be honest and discuss how we move past the racist discourse on both sides. At least as I see it defined, racism is only escapable if the concept of race is rejected from the outset. "White power" and "black power" are semiotically related in a lingual structure...using the terms, even in a very mundane way, is racist plain and simple, though its usually politically expediant to side with the underdog and use the language they have chosen for themselves. They (white and black power) however are just the "scary" terms emanating from the more docile words like the "white" and "black" communities. Which should we be more concerned with: Forming a COMMUNITY or seeing to it that two "SEPERATE but EQUAL communities" coexist? The latter is what we implicitly accept if we accept the racist language that defines our cultural landscape (e.g. white and black).

Then again...

[Raksha]

67. I voted yes, it is racist.

It wouldn't necessarily HAVE to be racist, but in context it almost always *IS* racist. There is nothing wrong with being proud of your English/Irish/European-whatever heritage, but given the history of slavery and racism in this country, to proclaim yourself in favor of "White Power" implies that you are putting down somebody else who isn't white.

[jpgray]

71. Racism is the belief in the inherent superiority of a race

So I would say yes.

[Deja Q]

72. Is 'black power' racist?

It is okay to be proud of one's superficial features.

It is atrocious to deride or be cruel to others' because of theirs.

We're all human.

All that gibber now having been said, a part of me is disturbed when I hear the phrase. The term is a connotation to the KKK and that is understandably why it's accpeted as a racist term. It's not the words themselves, but the context they are in. Naturally, we all inevitably generally associate things so, YES, the phrase is racist. Even if the words could technically be used in a situation that is not racist in a bad way. (it is possible to be racist, citing solely good things instead of bad ones. Otherwise known as "reverse racism", I believe.) The historical connotation is more than enough to justify "white power" as being a phrase best left avoided. Indeed, why else has nary a bleach company use the term as a slogan? Just think or how they'd peddle Clorox, yipes...

[mixedview]

104. context is everything

In America, whites are majority and the dominant class, and so "white power" is an abuse of that dominance = hatred/racism.

In prison, however, "white power" is NOT neccessarily racist - because whites are the minority. There are many white guys who go into prison not at all racist - but join the Aryan Brotherhood in order to survive.

[Misunderestimator]

107. Yes, and a thread asking if it is... is flamebait.

[Technowitch]

108. Locking as "asked and answered"

This sort of 'straw man' poll exists solely for the purpose of stirring up trouble. Enough.

Technowitch
DU Moderator