"This is not a big issue" - Howard Dean on Sierra Blanca nuclear waste

[wyldwolf]

Efforts will continue to find a site in Texas to ship Vermont's low-level radioactive waste, despite the rejection of one location by a state panel there, Gov. Howard Dean says. (PROOF that Dean knew Sierra Blanca was an option.)

Dean rejected calls by some anti-nuclear activists that Vermont should take care of its own waste, storing it above-ground at the Vermont Yankee nuclear plant in Vernont.

"We have much too much moisture in the ground and too much rain," Dean said. "This is not a big issue. Texas has the responsibility to site this (nuclear waste dump) and they will."

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/4745/LLRW/Texas/vermont.html

No big issue?

Wastes from nuclear power plants (would have) comprised 97 percent of the dump's radioactive content. "Low level" waste from power plans includes irradiated components and piping, the control rods from the reactor core, poison curtains from the reactor core and irradiated fuel pool, resins, sludge, and entire plants when they are decommissioned. The waste includes elements like plutonium (hazardous 500,000 years), iodine-129 (hazardous for 160 million years), strontium-90 (hazardous for 300 years) and nickel-59 (hazardous for 760,000 years). The "acceptable body dose" of plutonium is one millionth of a gram, because of its cancer-causing properties.

http://www.marfalights.com/sbdump.html

"We have much too much moisture in the ground and too much rain,"

That is why above-ground facilities are built! So moisture in the ground and rain isn't an issue!

"Nuclear waste dumps are a terrible way to store waste - all burial sites leak," said Lea Terhune, head of the Vermont Sierra Club. "What Vermont Sierra Club supports is storing the waste above ground, in a secure facility at Vermont Yankee."

Activists in Texas and in Maine and Vermont said the town had been chosen because it lacked political clout.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/4745/LLRW/Texas/vermont.html

[wyldwolf]

1. And for those who keep trying to spin this and say it was a FEDERAL issue.

The article says: Vermont... signed the agreement with Maine and Texas.

Sounds like a STATE issue to me!

[VermontDem2004]

2. You forgot to post this

Public Service Department Commissioner Richard Sedano said, however, that the state had studied the Vermont Yankee location and decided it was not the place to store waste.

Before the Texas agreement, Vermont had its own Low-level Radioactive Waste Authority, which spent more than $3 million in three years designing a dump and trying to find a community that would host it.

The Vermont Yankee site was ruled out because of wetlands and its location on the Connecticut River. Three Vermont towns expressed some interest in hosting the dump but eventually decided they did not want it. The state abandoned its search for a site in Vermont after it signed the agreement with Maine and Texas.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/4745/LLRW/Texas/vermont.html

[wyldwolf]

3. No, I didn't. But thanks for bringing it to my attention because...

...it further makes my point that Dean knew the waste was dangerous.

Three Vermont towns expressed some interest in hosting the dump but eventually decided they did not want it.

So go ahead and address the rest of the post. Links please.

[VermontDem2004]

5. I never said Dean didn't know the waste was dangerous

It can be even more dangerous depending on where you place the site. That is why it was placed in Andrews County because the effect on the area wasn't nearly as bad as anywhere in Vermont or Sierra Blanca.

[wyldwolf]

11. But you sure demanded proof that Dean KNEW about Sierra Blanca!

[VermontDem2004]

13. No I didn't

I demanded proof that Dean supported dumping it in Sierra Blanca, the article comes close to telling you but it is not enough. It just states that Dean couldn't store the waste in Vermont which I 100% agree with.

[wyldwolf]

16. Sure you did!

But the article says Dean had to drop back and punt after Sierra Blanca was rejected.

What? Dean didn't KNOW it was Sierra Blanca?

bwhahahahahahaha!

[VermontDem2004]

20. Now you lost me

I never said Dean didn't know it was Sierra blanca and I never demanded proof that Dean knew, (this is a no-spin zone lol) I just wanted to know if he wanted the site moved, but this is an article after the site was rejected so it doesn't prove anything I was asking.

[wyldwolf]

30. How soon you forget...

When Will Pitt said, "Explain to me how asking these questions is a bad thing?"

Your reponse was, "I would if anti-Dean people would stop asking the question without providing a quote or an action Dean took which indicated that he supported dumping the nuclear waste on a small mountain near a small hispanic town WHILE knowing the dangers that exsisted."

Well, I provided the quote you wanted.

but, then again, you said, "an action Dean took to indicate he supported this while knowing the dangers."

[VermontDem2004]

32. I asked for a combination of things

not one or the other. The combination was did he support it while knowing of the dangers of the Sierra Blanca site, now I know he knew about the dangers after the site was rejected but I don't know of the dangers before the site was rejected and I don't know what his stance was. I know you are going to say, "well Dean and Maine and Texas struck a deal." Of course I knew he supported dumping waste in Texas, but Sierra Blanca is what I am asking.

[wyldwolf]

36. You are grasping big time now...

You just won't believe it until you see Dean on TV say, "I knew the dangers and I knew it was Sierra Blanca."

But if that happenned you'd probably say the tape was edited!

"Efforts will continue to find a site in Texas to ship Vermont's low-level radioactive waste, despite the rejection of one location by a state panel there, Gov. Howard Dean says. (PROOF that Dean knew Sierra Blanca was an option.)"

The Sierra Club and other activists TOLD him of the dangers.

Just keep living in your dreamland.

[VermontDem2004]

40. I get tired of arguing with you

because I keep telling you the same stuff over and over again.

I KNOW HE KNEW OF THE DANGERS

"Efforts will continue to find a site in Texas to ship Vermont's low-level radioactive waste, despite the REJECTION of one location by a state panel there, Gov. Howard Dean says. (PROOF that Dean knew Sierra Blanca was an option.)"

I KNOW HE KNEW SIERRA BLANCA WAS AN OPTION, BUT DID HE SUPPORT DUMPING IT THERE BEFORE THE SITE WAS REJECTED? THAT LINE DOESN'T PROVE NOTHING EXCEPT THAT THE SITE WAS REJECTED.

[wyldwolf]

52. I would suggest then that you place me on "ignore."

No one is going to give you the sworn testimony you need from Dean to prove his gross irresponsibility in this matter.

[VermontDem2004]

56. I don't place people on ignore

and why would I place people on ignore I don't agree with?

[StopTheMorans]

60. word to the wise

he tells people that habitually disagree with him to put him on ignore, and if you keep disagreeing with him, he'll call you a stalker and possibly post a thread about you in GD.

[wyldwolf]

63. second word to the wise...

...we will continue to butt heads on this Dean issue so you have two choices if you're tired of arguing the point - don't respond or ignore it.

[VermontDem2004]

64. I don't get tired of arguing about Dean

but I get tired of repeating the same point over and over again.

[StopTheMorans]

70. well get used to it:)

appears to delight in making people respond to the SAME QUESTION over and over again within the SAME THREAD when they've already answered his inquiries.

[wyldwolf]

72. Until they give fact instead of speculation, yeah!

[VermontDem2004]

78. I have been giving facts

You just choose to call it "speculation".

[wyldwolf]

71. Your quote, not mine: "I get tired of arguing with you"

[VermontDem2004]

75. That is not my entire quote

This is it "I get tired of arguing with you BECAUSE I keep telling you the same stuff over and over again."

You keep doing this, you keep picking and choosing what I said and don't include the entire quote.

[Japhy_Ryder]

79. C'mon VD2004

Just admit that Dean wants to give all Hispanic people cancer, and vote against him, ok?

Also he hates children and puppies.

[StopTheMorans]

66. we will continue to butt heads

but if you continue to browbeat people with half-answers and threaten people to put you on "ignore" while repeatedly asking them questions they've already answered and then making them out to be the ones in the wrong, you'll make a lot of enemies and put your credibility (i won't go there) further into question.

[wyldwolf]

74. Look who is preaching credibility...

...someone who can add nothing to this discussion.

[VelmaD]

25. The article never says they "couldn't"

store the waste in Vermont. Reads more like "wouldn't" to me. It didn't say those other Vermont sites were unsafe...only that the locals didn't "want it" there.

DV

[VermontDem2004]

28. The article doesn't give any info about the other Vermont Sites

but he "couldn't" based on unsafe reasons at Vermont Yankee, I don't know much about the other sites though.

Public Service Department Commissioner Richard Sedano said, however, that the state had studied the Vermont Yankee location and decided it was not the place to store waste.

Before the Texas agreement, Vermont had its own Low-level Radioactive Waste Authority, which spent more than $3 million in three years designing a dump and trying to find a community that would host it.

The Vermont Yankee site was ruled out because of wetlands and its location on the Connecticut River. Three Vermont towns expressed some interest in hosting the dump but eventually decided they did not want it. The state abandoned its search for a site in Vermont after it signed the agreement with Maine and Texas.
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/4745/LLRW/Texas/vermont.html

[wyldwolf]

39. So the article is lying?

Your quotes of the article lend nothing to your position. They show Vermont couldn't or wouldn't house the waste themselves, several towns sure didn't want it, so Dean wanted to ship it off someplace else where he wouldn't have to deal with it!


When Sierra Blanca was rejected, Dean still demanded Texas take it.

[VermontDem2004]

45. Did I say the article was lying?

I just said it doesn't give enough information about the other sites, where were the other sites located? what would be the effects of the nearby population if the waste was dump there. You need to quit putting words in my mouth, (or text)

When Sierra Blanca was rejected, Dean still demanded Texas take it.

So? I supported dumping the nuclear waste in Andrews County.

[VelmaD]

6. NIMBY at it's worst

So, Vermonters didn't want to store their nuclear waste in their own backyard. Why the hell should I want to store it for them in mine?

DV

[VermontDem2004]

10. Well they needed a place to store it and Bush agreed to it

blame him, don't blame Dean.

[wyldwolf]

18. Dean agreed to it and shares the blame

[VermontDem2004]

21. He would of been blamed if

he kept the nuclear waste in his state.

[Capn Sunshine]

22. Each and every one of you is complicit in this

unless you tried to stop your State government from shipping the waste out. To keep it for yourselves.

BTW what we're talking about is mostly medically related stuff, not reactor trash, which is not low level.

NO, that comes under FED jurisdiction and they buried all that in a mine in Nevada located over an earthquake fault.

But sure, Howard Dean's porifereral involvement with old xray robes and techniciam gloves is MUCH more important than actually DOING something.

"Howard must be defeated at all costs." Even the soul of the party.

[wyldwolf]

33. You're just not reading this thread, are you?

Each and every one of you is complicit in this unless you tried to stop your State government from shipping the waste out.

Oh, so the buck doesn't stop with Dean. Are we all complicit in the Iraq war if we didn't try to stop Bush?

BTW what we're talking about is mostly medically related stuff, not reactor trash, which is not low level.

Wrong again. Wastes from nuclear power plants (would have) comprised 97 percent of the dump's radioactive content. "Low level" waste from power plans includes irradiated components and piping, the control rods from the reactor core, poison curtains from the reactor core and irradiated fuel pool, resins, sludge, and entire plants when they are decommissioned. The waste includes elements like plutonium (hazardous 500,000 years), iodine-129 (hazardous for 160 million years), strontium-90 (hazardous for 300 years) and nickel-59 (hazardous for 760,000 years). The "acceptable body dose" of plutonium is one millionth of a gram, because of its cancer-causing properties.

NO, that comes under FED jurisdiction and they buried all that in a mine in Nevada located over an earthquake fault.

No. All the Feds have to do is approve a state brokered deal. Which they did.

But sure, Howard Dean's porifereral involvement with old xray robes and techniciam gloves is MUCH more important than actually DOING something.

Repeating the same lie. look above.

[bicentennial_baby]

8. I would be inclined to agree

"The Vermont Yankee site was ruled out because of wetlands and its location on the Connecticut River"

I'm live 10 miles from Vermont Yankee in Vernon, and that location is possibly the worst choice for storage of nuclear waste, imho. Then again, I protest there every year to get the fucking place shut down, so I'd be just as happy to see it decommissioned.

[JaneQPublic]

4. Why not blame Bill Clinton and Congress for signing the bill?

http://www.sunsonline.org/trade/process/followup/1998/09250798.htm

Outraged environmentalists protested Clinton's action last weekend in quietly signing into law the Texas/Maine/Vermont Radioactive Waste Dump Compact, effectively giving the nod to Texan officials to start up the bulldozers if they chose to do so.

Congress earlier passed the bill, under which Texas would accept radioactive waste from the northeastern states of Vermont and Maine, in exchange for 25 million dollars each. In January, the Texas legislature will vote on funding the proposed dump site - which will also store nuclear waste from Texas.

"The radioactive waste gun was pointed, loaded and the trigger cocked and Clinton's signature effectively pulls the federal trigger," said Diane D'Arrigo, an activist with the Washington-based Nuclear Information and Resource Service. "This makes is harder for local residents to fight it but fight it they will, with growing local, national and international support and concern."


And here's a response from DeanDefense.Org:

http://deandefense.org/archives/000017.html

As Vermont’s Governor, Dean supported getting nuclear waste out of his state into safer storage sites. The 1998 proposal of using Sierra Blanca, Texas as a repository was part of a compact, supported by Texas, Maine and Vermont, passed by Congress, and signed by President Clinton. As President, Dean would work towards a non-political solution to the nuclear waste storage issue based on science and safety.

[StopTheMorans]

7. because it wouldn't meet Wyldwolf's primary goal

of bashing Dean now, would it;)?

[wyldwolf]

14. Exactly! We agree!

No one need worry ever again about anything policies of Bill Clinton's. But Howard Dean?

He could be our next president.

THERE is the difference!

[VermontDem2004]

15. And I hope he is our next President

:toast:

[wyldwolf]

9. Because Clinton isn't running for president...

...and Dean is.

[stickdog]

12. Compare this to hundreds of tons of depleted uranium.

Common thread: Nuke waste is a bitch.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

19. That Wasn't Clark's Call, Though

That was standard military doctrine established by people much higher than Clark.

Next!

DTH

[gully]

23. And, Dean didn't invent "Nukular" waste...

Next!

[DoveTurnedHawk]

29. No One Said He Invented It...But Didn't He Sign the Deal to Dispose of It?

Or is that not relevant to you?

DTH

[wyldwolf]

43. He's going to ignore this. If he pretends he didn't see it..

...it means the point wasn't made.

[gully]

47. Ah, disposing of "nukular" waste is important thanks!

And, it's important to dispose of it in a place far from water, which is what the good Governor did.

You see, we've been over this tired issue here before, many many times. It's no great revelation.

However, see my thread # 41 for some exciting NEW news... :boring:

Im out for today, I've had enough 'toxic' shit for today.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

53. New? Please.

All that shit's been aired before. I haven't seen:

http://www.wafflepoweredhoward.com

posted here before as its own separate thread, however, so if you want to play the escalation game, please be my guest.

Truth to be told, I DON'T have a big problem with Dean's environmental record. To parrot the anti-Clarkers, however, I do believe that scrutiny of his record -- especially since he's the one so proud of it that he's touting it to all -- is legit.

DTH

[wyldwolf]

55. But he agreed to dispose of it in a poor hispanic area...

[DoveTurnedHawk]

57. Sorry...Where Is That, Again? I Must've Missed It.

Thanks.

DTH

[wyldwolf]

69. Here...

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/4745/LLRW/Texas/vermont.html

First paragraph. After Sierra Blanca was rejected by the Texas Natural Resource Conservation Commission , Dean said they'd have to keep looking for another place.

This is obvious unless one wants to believe that Dean didn't bother to find out where the waste was going to go in the first place.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

76. Aha. But That Doesn't Say To Me That Dean Is Anti-Poor or Anti-Latino

It sounds like Texas was the state to try to foist off the waste on the poor people of color (which surprises me not at all).

What am I missing?

DTH

[wyldwolf]

85. I'll explain it in simple terms..

Vermont. Howard Dean. Nuclear waste. Problem. Deal with Texas. Dump in Sierra Blanca. Poor hispanic town. Environmental groups protest Vermont. Paul Wellstone protests Vermont. Texas Commission says no to Sierra Blanca. Dean says, "well, we'll have to find another place, then."

[DoveTurnedHawk]

88. Yeah? So?

I still don't see how that makes Dean anti-poor or anti-Latino. It's not like HE was pushing Texas to designate that site, right?

Dean represented the people of Vermont. Hell, if I was governor of a state, I'd sure as hell try to make a deal (assuming it made reasonable business sense) to ship my nuclear waste out-of-state, if I could, too.

DTH

[wyldwolf]

95. Let me ask you this...

Where did you get that I said Dean was anti-poor or anti-Latino?

No, he wasn't pushing Texas to designate that site but he agreed on the site despite protests from the Sierra Club and Paul Wellstone.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

98. From Your Post #55

But he agreed to dispose of it in a poor hispanic area...

Your implication clearly seems to be that Dean is anti-poor and/or anti-Latino. If you're saying that's not what you meant, then I suppose I'm glad to hear it.

DTH, Who Promised Himself He Wouldn't Be Defending Dean Any More After His Attack on Clark, But Old Habits Appear to Die Hard

[wyldwolf]

107. That is how Wellstone described it, too.

My implication was it was a poor, hispanic area - just as Wellstone and the Asociated Press termed it. No more. No less. Unless those two entities are implying Dean is Dean is anti-poor and/or anti-Latino.

[VermontDem2004]

100. He agreed on the site?

No, the article says he supports dumping it in Texas and says he won't dump it in Vermont Yankee. Remember the article was written AFTER the site was rejected.

[wyldwolf]

112. The article says...

"Efforts will continue to find a site in Texas to ship Vermont's low-level radioactive waste, despite the rejection of one location by a state panel there, Gov. Howard Dean says."

Tell us right now if you don't believe Dean KNEW it was Sierra Blanca BEFORE Texas rejected the site.

[VermontDem2004]

115. oh god

make that 3,001th time I repeated it. I said I am sure Dean KNEW about the site before the site was rejected. And I said no where in the article says Dean approved of the site and you just proved my point. The clip you gave me said they will continue to find another site despite the fact Sierra Blanca was rejected. I don't have a problem with them looking for another site.

[wyldwolf]

118. OK, Dean KNEW the site but didn't approve it...

:eyes:

[VermontDem2004]

120. I didn't say that

there you go putting words in my mouth again. But you don't know that he did approve the site, and I don't know he didn't approve it. I was just asking for a source or a quote. Let's go to the timeline again.

1. Texas, Maine, Vermont strike a deal

2. Bush proposes a site

3. The Texas Legislature vote on the site.

[wyldwolf]

123. Don't forget the rest...

4. At some point, Vermont (Dean) is made aware of the site but has no problem with it

[VermontDem2004]

124. Can you give me a quote or a source

where Dean says I have no problem dumping nuclear waste near a small hispanic town? I like the way you use circumstanial evidence to prove your point.

[wyldwolf]

127. Here you go with that "give me a quote" again.

No, Dean has not or will not go on TV and confess this.

Paul Wellstone said it was a small poor hispanic town. Activists in Texas and in Maine and Vermont said the town had been chosen because it lacked political clout.

But somehow Dean didn't notice any of that. You admit Dean knew it was Sierra Blanca BEFORE the site was cancelled BY TEXAS. Dean did not cancel it.

He did still insist, though, that Texas take the waste.

[VermontDem2004]

129. So don't use circumstaniel evidence to prove your point.

Dean did not cancel the deal but said he would look to find another site.

[Japhy_Ryder]

130. Yes, please stop asking for actual real evidence

None of that is needed here to levy a racist charge on people.

[StopTheMorans]

131. and all you have to do is look further up this thread

to see wyldwolf saying "quotes please? links?" I don't smell hypocricy here when the shoe is on the other foot :eyes:

[Japhy_Ryder]

103. Every single post you've made here

carries the implication that Dean is racist.

[wyldwolf]

116. Your interpretation...

Every single time this story was reported, Sierra Blanca was described in those terms.

Play the race card with me and you'll have to include such progressive sites as commondreams.org.

[Japhy_Ryder]

125. You've played the race card

Perhaps race is an issue here, but the point is that Dean was, at worst, ambivalent as where TEXAS chose to store the radioactive waste that TEXAS had agreed to take. Your beef is that the governor of VERMONT did not tell TEXAS how to handle its internal affairs.

This is a Federal issue. Not a state issue. It's a concern for the nation, and as much as you want to imply Dean's failures here, the problem is that the Federal government SHOULD NOT be leaving this to the states to handle.

[wyldwolf]

132. Look at your post #103 and say that with a straight face...

My beef is that the governor of VERMONT did not protest when he found out where VERMONT'S waste was going.

[Japhy_Ryder]

136. So a lack of protest indicates support?

That's a pretty high standard. And I stand by my statement. The implication being made is that Dean is racist.

[VermontDem2004]

90. Paul Wellstone didn't protest Vermont

He protested the proposed site, get your facts right and you accuse me of "speculating".

[wyldwolf]

92. He protested Vermont's proposal on Sierra Blanca.

...fact.

Is that all you have?

[DoveTurnedHawk]

93. Again, How Was It Vermont's Proposal, It Sounds Like a Texas Proposal

:shrug:

DTH

[wyldwolf]

97. It was a proposal between Texas, Vermont, and Maine...

...and Vermont was in agreement on Sierra Blanca.

[VermontDem2004]

101. No they weren't

they were in agreement on dumping the nuclear waste in TEXAS, it was up to the Texas Legislature to decide where.

[VermontDem2004]

96. rotflmao, is that all you have?

That wasn't Vermont's proposed site, that was Bush's proposed site in which the Texas Legislature voted on. fact... Now this is your most laughable post if you honestly believe Vermont proposed the site.

[wyldwolf]

102. If someone proposed to rob a bank, and I agreed...

...telling the police, "but it wasn't my idea, I just agreed to it" would really get me a lighter sentence, wouldn't it.

Howard Dean had knowledge of the site.

[VermontDem2004]

104. Apples and Oranges

Robbing a bank is illegal, he aggreed to a deal with Texas, dumping Nuclear waste is not illegal, Bush proposed the site Sierra Blanca, I don't recall Howard Dean voting in favor of the proposed a site. I repeat for 3,000th time I know Dean had knowledge of the site, I hope you understand that for the 3,000th time, but did he support it while knowing of the dangers of the SITE? or did he want the site moved?

[DoveTurnedHawk]

105. Wait a Minute

Are you saying Dean knew of the site, and possibly even had a role in approving it as well? That it wasn't just Texas?

That would indeed bother me, to be honest. Race issues are huge with me, and I particularly despise environmental racism.

DTH

[VermontDem2004]

108. I am sure Dean knew of the site

but he had no role in approving of the site. The only role he played was striking a deal with Texas.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

110. So at the Time He Struck the Deal, Dean Knew It Was Going to Sierra Blanca

Is that right?

Thanks for your honesty.

DTH

[VermontDem2004]

111. No

He struck the deal with Texas and Maine, then Bush proposed a site and the Texas Legislature voted to approve of the site, the site happened to be Sierra Blanca.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

113. Oh, Then I'm Back to "No Problem" on This

Sorry for all the questions!

DTH

[wyldwolf]

114. The article says...

"Efforts will continue to find a site in Texas to ship Vermont's low-level radioactive waste, despite the rejection of one location by a state panel there, Gov. Howard Dean says."

Dean didn't KNOW it was Sierra Blanka BEFORE it was rejected?

[VermontDem2004]

117. I am confused

I said Dean didn't know where the site would be before he approved of the deal, I never said he didn't know about the site before it was rejected. Your clip just says to they will continue to find a site even though Sierra Blanca was rejected.

[wyldwolf]

109. Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying...

...Wellstone called something similar to environnmental racism.

[Capn Sunshine]

26. YEAH HE'S ONLY A 4STAR COMMANDER OF THE NATO FORCES

He can't be expected to be responsible for anything under his command.

After all, he's a leader, not the authority

After all, it was those pesky "higher ups"

So it seems he has evasion of responsibility down. That's presidential, judging by W as example.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

31. It's Civilian Command of the Military

Isn't that a good thing?

DTH

[Japhy_Ryder]

17. Does Dean advocate...

sending the waste in a rocket ship destined for the sun? This seems like it would solve the problems of storing it in Texas or anywhere else.

[5thGenDemocrat]

38. Unless, say,

This hypothetical rocket exploded a la Challenger -- a couple miles above eastern Florida and contaminated everything south of Jacksonville with highly radioactive debris.
John
I can't speak to the specifics of storing radioactive waste. I know it's a complicated issue. But I am more nervous about one of those container trucks dumping a load of waste for whatever reason in the middle of Toledo or Kansas City.

[Japhy_Ryder]

51. And if the rocket crashed in Florida

That would indeed prove that Dean hates Hispanic people.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

44. Unless the rocket crashes, of course.

Edit- Sorry for stepping on your toes, 5GD.

[wyldwolf]

24. The fact is, Dean KNEW it was Sierra Blanca and he knew WHY...

...it was Sierra Blanca.

Activists told him. The Siera Club told him.

He knew the danger after towns in Vermont said, NO WAY!

Face it! Dean backed dumping Vermont's waste onto a poor hispanic town.

And thought it was NO BIG ISSUE!

[VermontDem2004]

27. This is an article after the plan was rejected

and they were in the middle of proposing a new site, so dean didn't back dumping waste at Vermont Yankee, but he did support dumping it in Texas and he said 'it's texas responsibilty for deciding where to dump it' which it was.

[wyldwolf]

46. But the article shows he knew of the Sierra Blanca deal...

...or did he just say, "take the waste, I don't care WHERE you put it!"

bwahahahaha!

[VermontDem2004]

49. I NEVER SAID HE DIDN'T KNOW OF THE SIERRA BLANCA

SITE, IS THAT CLEAR NOW?

[wyldwolf]

77. YOU REPEATEDLY ASKED FOR PROOF HE KNEW IT WAS SIERRA BLANCA!

...and then you wanted proof that he knew it was Sierra Blanca and the waste was dangerous at the same time.

[VermontDem2004]

82. You keep repeating the same fucking question

and I am going to keep repeating the same fucking answer. I wanted to know DID HE support the site when the dangers of THE SITE were being arose, not THE WASTE, everyone with half a brain knows nuclear waste can be hazardous. Now you post an article which was written AFTER the site was rejected and the article even states the site was rejected so I repeat, it doesn't prove anything I was asking.

[wyldwolf]

87. You keep spinning out of it...

Vermont. Howard Dean. Nuclear waste. Problem. Vermont says get rid of it. Deal with Texas. Dump in Sierra Blanca. Poor hispanic town. Environmental groups protest Vermont. Paul Wellstone protests Vermont. Texas Commission says no to Sierra Blanca. Dean says, "well, we'll have to find another place, then."

If Dean DIDN'T know it was Sierra Blanca BEFORE it was rejected, that shows a serious lack of job attention.

If he DID know, it shows a serious lack of responsibility.

With the Siera Club and other activists protesting in Vermont BEFROE the site was rejected, tell me Howard Dean somehow overlooked it.

[VermontDem2004]

94. Let me create a more in-depth timeline

Vermont and Maine, Nuclear Waste, need a place to dump it, they sign a deal with Texas, the Texas legislature proposes the site and vote on it, Paul Wellstone PROTESTS the proposed site, Sierra Blanca is deemed unsafe, another site is proposed and accepted.

You are spinning my words, I wanted to know did he support dumping the waste AT THAT SITE while knowing the dangers? I said nothing about Dean didn't know it was Sierra Blanca.

[wyldwolf]

119. You left out a few events...

Vermont and Maine, Nuclear Waste, need a place to dump it, VERMONT DOESN'T WANT IT, they sign a deal with Texas, the Texas legislature proposes the site and vote on it, VERMONT AND MAINE ARE INFORMED OF THE SITE, Paul Wellstone PROTESTS the proposed site, SIERRAS CLUB protests site, HOWARD DEAN DOESN'T WITHDRAW FROM DEAL, Sierra Blanca is deemed unsafe, HOWARD DEAN DOESN'T WITHDRAW FROM DEAL, another site is proposed and accepted.

[VermontDem2004]

122. Why do you make a big deal

about Dean not withdrawing from the deal after the site was deemed unsafe? Maybe the deal prevented him from pulling out or maybe it didn't who knows? But the site is deemed unsafe, so they look for a better and safer site, who cares?

[wyldwolf]

126. Because it is a big deal!

Dumping cancer causing waste in an area picked specifically because it isn't a factor politically is a big deal.

And not protesting it once that is found out is a big deal!

[VermontDem2004]

128. Hold on you said

after the site was deemed unsafe, HOWARD DEAN DIDN'T PULL OUT OF THE DEAL.

Of course not, I wouldn't, I would look for a safer site to store the waste. Just the fact that you don't pull out of the deal even though the proposed site was deemed unsafe doesn't mean you want them to dump the waste their despite what the enviromental experts say, it just means you have waste, you want it dumped somewhere else.

[wyldwolf]

133. The deal being that is would be dumped in Sierra Blanca...

..at no time did Dean say, based on the evidence, that if Sierra Blanca is the spot, we won't out.

Now, you can try to make it sound as if I advocated Dean pulling out of the whole deal if you want.

You think you've found a point to argue when it is really semantics.

You want "deal" to mean one thing. I am using it in another sense.

[JNelson6563]

34. I have a feeling that if I wanted to know

what you looked like I could look up the word "shrill". I do believe I am witnessing a fine living example of that word in your behavior of late on this forum.

Pretty much everything I have seen from youtoday so clearly negates your "apology" from yesterday. Of course I realize your behavior here is the fault of others as you clearly explained yesterday. Still, you are rather tiresome and, frankly, if not for your whining about Clark bashing I wouldn't know who you are backing or why.

Why not try something positive about your candidate, you've already impressed us with your bash skills. Broaden your horizons, yanno?

Julie

[Japhy_Ryder]

35. To sum it up

Dean appears to be guilty of paying someone to take his state's waste. Someone willing and happy to take it, no less.

If I pay my sewer bill every month, and I know that the treatment plant is by the poor section of town, the people living in the vans down by the river, does that mean I am a racist against those people in the neighboring town for not creating a storage facility on my property to house my household waste?

Until this story changes to say something like "Dean, who hates hispanic people, forced Texas to take nuclear waste and place in poor storage areas, near hispanic population centers" then this is not on Dean. It's on Texas and the Federal government for not fixing this problem.

[VermontDem2004]

37. Your last paragraph made me laugh

but they did fix the problem by moving the site to Andrews County.

[Japhy_Ryder]

42. Well, I speak of the larger problem

of having no clear cut way to deal with nuclear waste. And 50 different states trying to walk fine lines between discarding it or storing it.

[gully]

41. Wesley Clark WAR CRIMINAL...

I am tempted to start a thread on this subject, but I wont stoop to your level today wyldwolf.

http://www.zpub.com/un/clark.html

Your post about how Clark would deal with terrorists is much more effective at winning people over to clark then trashing Howard Dean...

In fact here are some potential threads about the General...

I think I'll book mark for future reference. Dean supporters, feel free to beat me to the punch.

http://www.wesleyclark.h1.ru/uranium.htm

http://www.occams-razor.info/archives/000089.html

http://www.iacenter.org/clrkbalt.htm

http://www.avnet.co.uk/home/montenegro/2001/clark.html

I will refrain from playing your game for now wyldwolf.

[wyldwolf]

48. Go ahead...

I am tempted to start a thread on this subject, but I wont stoop to your level today wyldwolf.

Go ahead. There are multiple threads on it everyday. One more will make you look like a slow and uninvolved person.

[gully]

54. slow, uninvolved? Hmmm, I hadn't heard about Wes targeting

civilians before.

But, I have heard about Deans supposed nuclear waste issue (over and over and over and over and over again.)

I won't stoop to your level Wyldwolf, not today.

I may kick the heartfelt apology thread from you yesterday however.

[wyldwolf]

58. Many times!

[Capn Sunshine]

50. I agree, someone is WYLD for the general

Are you on an 8 hour day or piecework is what I'm wondering.

[wyldwolf]

61. no, you only notice threads that have negative Dean info...

...but not the negative ones on anyone else! Hell, Deanies can't respond to questions about Dean without throwing Clark's name into for some totally unrelated issue.

You're like children who, when they get busted, want to point fingers and whine, "but Wesley did this and that..."

[Capn Sunshine]

73. Similes and metaphors

aren't effectively skirting the issue of your rabid posting on microparsing every teensy possible issue from 8 years of governorship of Dean.

Believe me, if we wanted, a military man is just so open to this kind of ad hominem.

But I slip over here when things calm at work for a moment. I don't have time to respond to anything except the most blatantly partisan ad hominem attacks on Gov. Dean.

Isn't it break time ? They are mandatory.

[XanaDUer]

65. Curious...

what does your post mean?

I get the wyld-for-the-general part.

Don't get the other reference.

[gully]

68. Wondered how he/she has so much time to 'trash'...

Who's paying him/her...?

[XanaDUer]

81. Well, I don't think it is constructive to call

other DUers with posts we disagree with, in a roundabout way, plants or disruptors. (Not saying you are doing it:you're just explaining what the other poster probably meant)!

Also, I have seen this leveled at other posters who post stuff others don't agree with. So what? Maybe they are out of work? Maybe they spend all their time at work on this site?

Maybe they are wealthy?

Also, no pun intended about "trash", the dumping of radioactive waste , especially in poor areas , and environmental rasism, is an important topic. Maybe not to all, but to some.

And, maybe Dean really believes it is no big deal. Which opens up other questions.

[gully]

106. Uhm, he doesn't believe that, the issue has been gone over many times

:shrug:

I think we could post our own 'big deals' about Clark if we so choose. See thread # 41

[wyldwolf]

121. "I think we could post our own 'big deals' about Clark if we so choose to"

You mean the Deanies haven't?

[gully]

134. I'm sorry, do you see any Clark bashing threads today?

I don't.

[JaneQPublic]

59. Look who supported this bill in Congress!

We're talking about the Texas Low-Level Radioactive Waste Disposal Compact Consent Act, which started out as HR 629, and once signed into law by President Clinton, it became Public Law No: 105-236.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d105:HR00629:@@@X

Sponsors of the bill included Rep. Bernie Sanders of VT and about 17 congressmembers from Texas, including Sheila Jackson Lee:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d105:HR00629:@@@P

U.S. Representaves who voted Yea for the bill included Rep. Dick Gephardt:
http://clerkweb.house.gov/cgi-bin/vote.exe?year=1998&rollnumber=344

Senators who voted Yea (all but 15 of them did) included Sen. Joe Lieberman:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=105&session=2&vote=00255

An important point is made by one of the sponsors, Rep. Bernie Sanders at:
http://www.house.gov/bernie/statements/1998-07-29-texas.html

“…there is nowhere in this legislation that talks about a specific site. Nowhere will we find that. We are not voting on a site. That decision is left to the authorities and the people of the State of Texas.“

And who was the Governor of Texas in 1999? George W. Bush. So, if you have problems with the nuclear waste being dumped on a poor, mostly Latino community, take up the issue with Chimpy.

[VermontDem2004]

62. Thank you

I made this point over and over again. They agreed to the deal and it was up to the TEXAS LEGISLATURE to approve of the site, somehow I forgot that Dean was a member of the Texas Legislature.

[VelmaD]

67. Actually, we should take up the issue...

with every single person who voted for it. It's a criminally stupid idea. Transporting nuclear waste the VAST distance between Maine and Vermont and Texas is an accident waiting to happen. How many major cities are on the route between there and here? This isn't just about the 3 states involved...it's about every single city and town those trucks are going to go through.

[JaneQPublic]

80. Besides Clinton, the House, and the Senate voting for it...

...it was also voted on by elected officials in all the states involved.

Take a look at this statement by one of the bill's sponsors, Rep. Bernie Sanders (VT)(paragraph breaks are mine):

http://www.house.gov/bernie/statements/1998-07-29-texas.html

...this compact bill has been passed overwhelmingly by the legislatures of Texas, Maine, and Vermont, and the legislation is strongly endorsed by the Governors of Texas, Maine, and Vermont. In fact, in Vermont the legislature approved this legislation by voice vote in the State Senate and by a 3 to 1 margin in the House.

In Texas, the Texas State Senate approved this legislation 26 to 2, while the Texas House approved it by voice vote. In Maine, both the House and Senate approved the bill by wide margins. Under a statewide referendum held in Maine, the legislation passed by better than a 2 to 1 margin.

This bill, Mr. Speaker, is supported by both Senators from Texas, both Senators from Maine, both Senators from Vermont. It is supported by the entire Maine delegation in the House, all two Members; the entire Vermont delegation, me; and as I understand it, two-thirds of the Texas House. So there is opposition from some Members of the Texas House here, but two-thirds support this legislation.

Mr. Speaker, this compact is not a new idea. Since 1985, nine interstate low-level radioactive waste compacts have been approved by Congress, encompassing 41 States. I think all we are saying, if this approach is valid for 41 States in nine compacts, it certainly should be valid for Texas, Maine, and Vermont.

[VelmaD]

86. Yes, I know they all voted for it...

but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

One has to wonder, with all those other compacts, was there not someplace a little close to Maine and Vermont where they could have sent their waste, thereby avoiding the long, overland trip to Texas and reducing the possibilities for accidents?

But even that is not a solution I'd endorse. If people want nuclear power then they should have to deal with the consequences. As long as they can ship the waste off somewhere else where they don't have to look at it then they have no incentive to find other, less toxic. means of producing power. Out of sight...out of mind.

[XanaDUer]

84. Exactly!

One bad accident, and forget about it.

[wyldwolf]

83. So you're saying Dean lacked the responsibility to find out?

You're saying Dean couldn't be bothered to know? That because others were involved, it is OK that Dean was, too?

Kid logic. It can't be bad if everyone is doing it.

[Japhy_Ryder]

91. Talk about logic

Nowhere on this post is anything resembling logic being used. And now you do an "if everyone else is doing it". That way oversimplifies this horribly complex issue. You have progressed, during the course of this thread from blaming the entire issue on Dean to now saying that he was just lazy and didn't find out all that he should have.

If you are going to post something ridiculous like inferring that Dean is a racist, at least be able to stand up for what you originally said. At best, you've presented circumstantial evidence here that Dean had a problem disposing of nuclear waste in his state. In order to do something about it, he took one of the very few options available to him. If you disagree with that option, fine, but you make wild inferences into the meaning of that decision which have no basis in fact or reality.

FYI, I'm not a Dean supporter.

[JaneQPublic]

99. Thanks, Japhy_Ryder!

I couldn't have said it better myself.

The real issue here is the growing problem of what to do with nuclear waste, when there is no GOOD place to put it.

[gully]

135. DEPLETED URANIUM, ring a bell?

You've gotten credible answers to your questions. You refuse to accept them.

[haymaker]

89. Much ado about nothing....again.

Dean isn't allowed to get rid of nukular waste? If some idiot county in Texas wants money for waste, more power to them. Wasn't all that hashed out by the people of that county? Do you mean to imply that Dean had something to do with the political process in a Texas county that decided to build a nukular waste dump?

Nukular waste is an HUUUUUUUGE problem in the entire US, not just in Vermont. I'm sure you know about Nevada, right? Do you think Nevadans want that Yucca Mountain site? Get a clue.

Exactly what the fuck are you getting at?

Grasping at straws again, and again, and again, and again, and again.

:boring: