Black Power: Explain why this term is/is not "racist?"

[noiretextatique]

but first, explain what you think the black power movement was about.
and second, tell me how that movement differs from what bill cosby is doing right now.

for those who don't know...
cosby had been shooting his mouth off about "those black people" for a few months...
then he started going to poor black communities and talking TO the people he was initially talking ABOUT. i read an article about what he is doing NOW vs. then, and what he's doing now sounds remarkably like:
EMPOWERMENT.

i criticized cosby initially, but now i fully support his efforts and i now believe his intentions are honorable...more than that...they are commendable, inspiring and motivating.


cosby makes no bones about WHY he's doing what he's doing...he wants to empower black people.

my final question: is cosby's mission "racist?"

[jpgray]

1. "White Power" is built around believing whites are the superior race

It's less clear to me that Black Power came out of the idea that blacks are the superior race. Seemed more that it was out of a quest for social parity, though derogatory stereotypes, prejudice and discrimnation have been associated with the Black Power movement at times.

[noiretextatique]

2. i got the distinct impression from the other thread

that there are some here who disagree. i would love for them to have the opportunity to explain their views.
on edit: but i suspect they will be too cowardly to do so :eyes:
hit and run types...

[jpgray]

5. If Black Power was founded on the idea that blacks are the superior race

Then it too would be racist. To me Black Power and White Power have more differences than their representing different races.

[noiretextatique]

8. i was wondering

if some people really knew what the movement was all about. if not, i know some good information will be posted here.

[donheld]

24. Let me pull up a chair

:beer: :popcorn: :banghead:

[noiretextatique]

26. LOL

:popcorn: i'll join you while i'm waiting...

[ultraist]

3. "Free your mind and your ass will follow"~ Funkadelic

Black power IS about empowerment and the original political movement embraced the Black culture. Today, embracing a culture is more often referred to as multiculturalism or respect for diversity.

http://www.umich.edu/~eng499/concepts/power.html

Black Power was a political movement that arose in the middle 1960s, that strove to express a new racial consciousness among Blacks in the United States. Robert Williams, who revived the Monroe, NC chapter of the NAACP and later entered exile in Cuba and China, was the first to put the actual term to effective use in the late 1950s. Williams, who was also the first to publish the poetry of Ray Durem, used the phrase "Black Power" in the American political context.

The movement stemmed from the earlier civil rights movements, but its meaning was vigorously debated. To some African Americans, Black Power represented racial dignity and self-reliance (i.e. freedom from white authority in both economic and political arenas). To others, it was economic in orientation.

Led in some ways by Malcom X, who supplied the rhetoric, style, and attitude, the Black Power Movement encouraged the improvement of African American communities, rather than the fight for complete integration. The Black Panther Party for Self Defense were truly the vanguard of the Black Power Movement. In addition to Robert Williams, Stokely Carmichael played a key role in the formation of the ideas of Black Power. Carmichael made Black Power more popular, largely through his use of the term while reorganizing the Student Non-violent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) so that whites would no longer possess leadership responsibilities.

Some African Americans sought cultural heritage and history and the true roots of black identity as their part of the movement. This was thought of as the "consciousness" aspect of the Black Power Movement. The classic phrases belonged to the musicians: "Free your mind and your ass will follow" (George Clinton/Funkadelic) and "Say it loud, I'm Black and I'm proud" (James Brown). The recognition that standards of beauty and self-esteem were integral to power relations was also a significant aspect of the movement.

Edit to add:
No, Black power is NOT racist. White power is, as it equates to maintaining a superior position and dominating other races.

[noiretextatique]

6. thanks, ultraist

a part of why i posted this copycat is that i got the feeling some didn't really know what the term meant...or why the movement came into existence.

[Guaranteed]

4. self-delete.

Racism is the institutional oppression of people of a certain race or color, IMO.

So, apply that however you like to what Cosby is saying.

[noiretextatique]

9. cosby is saying what i was taught all my life

re: the system...
you will have to figure out a way to progress in spite of it.

[Guaranteed]

10. Well, maybe some would say that that's not what he's saying at all.

I think some would say that he's saying that you're supposed to adhere to the system- join it- instead of making your own way.

[noiretextatique]

13. that is only a part of what he's saying

an MA in Business (adhering to "the system") doesn't make me any less vulnerable to racism.
it does, however, give me some options and choices, including living in a relatively integrated community, and self-employment...just some examples.
it's all about having options and choices, not assimilating, per se. i think many who have assimilated would agree that it's overrated.

cosby is indeed saying that people need to achieve, in spite of the system...that's exactly what he did.

[JohnnyBoots]

7. Bottom line all this shit boils down to socio-economics

[noiretextatique]

11. yes, it does

cosby is actually addressing that as well. a part of his program is helping people find jobs, providing mentors, etc.

[JohnnyBoots]

17. a great way t lower abortion rates too, god forbid an

educated poor class, the thing the powers that be the most! It explains my last year in Appalachia for AmeriCorps.

[noiretextatique]

29. that is truly what frightens the the most

an empowered/educated poor class. notice how republican use the class card? almost always by excusing democrats of class-baiting, e.g., hating the rich :eyes: it's one of the many disgusting things about the GOP.

[Just Me]

31. They no longer "discriminate" to acquire SLAVES.

They do project "chaos" to acquire their SLAVES. However, those greedy, power-mongering bastards don't give a shit about empowering humanity 'cause they are into EXPLOITING humanity,...for their own SICK obsession with power.

[Cleita]

12. I think "Black Power" is

not racist because blacks still don't have full equality, and haven't achieved full color-blindness in the eyes of others who are not black. So I think it's an appropriate term. But for a demographic who IS on top of the heap, calling for "**** Power" says to me that they want to be the only demographic on top of the heap. There is no reason for them to need to achieve that equality, which they already have in superabundance.

[noiretextatique]

14. as someone mentioned

it seems a lot of white supremacists are folks who don't feel privileged, and who aren't especially privileged, economically speaking. i believe that how people like tom metzger recruit...in economically depressed areas, for example.
not surprising that the NOI does the same thing.

[ultraist]

16. The GOP recruits using the same premise

They play to the lower income, less educated white voters by opposing affirmative action, claiming that it will take away from them in some way.

The flaw in their claim is that educational/financial empowerment programs, in no way, harm people affected by classism. The Repuke policies certainly do though. Those people are voting against their own interests by supporting the Right. It would be advantageous for Democrats to better explain the inequalities in the tax system and how Bush's economic and social policies cater to the top 4% elitist wealth holders.

[noiretextatique]

18. classic divide and conquer

example: dismantling affirmative action vs. expanding it. people keep shooting themselves in the foot.

[Cleita]

21. I lived in one of those depressed white ares in the

Northwest. The reason they are economically depressed is because they vote for Republicans, who do nothing for them. However, most of the locals are not White Supremists. The Supremists found a place to breed up there because the locals have a live and let live attitude about minding their own business. So they don't have a "there goes the neighborhood" attitude about these people.

Most of the Supremists are nothing better than white gang bangers, who claim to be Christians and they are the ones who commit most of the crimes in these areas. Also, since the Northwest is very gun friendly, it gives them the opportunity to keep fire arms without any raised eyebrows.

So economic depression isn't a reason there as they are quite well fed, armed, housed and even provided with nifty military type uniforms as long as they talk and do the accepted things. The reverends of their church tell them it's okay to be lawless because our government isn't legitimate anyway. So this is how they support themselves. Well, I guess they are right these days.

[noiretextatique]

30. i spent some time up there myself

i met the nicest people in the world there. i have to find that poster i got from a UAW civil rights conference i wnt to that shows the connections between all the white supremacist/christian indentity movements and more <ahem> mainstream organizations, including one poltical party :7

[SkyIsGrey]

15. From Memory.

Black Power is not racist. The Movement(correct me if I am wrong, and is not going into great detail, as I am a real cr**y writer,and type slower than a corpse, that is why I spend most of my time here lurking.) was based on the wanting of recognition of Africans in the U.S., for achievements, so well deserved, after the build-up of the civil rights movement.
When I first herd Cosby, from the speech that he gave,I think last year?, when he hit the map with this controversy, My first reaction was, WTF?,he's gone off the deep end, and agreed at the time, with the comment I read somewhere, that "The only way Cosby got to were he is today, is not listening to someone like Cosby". But giving thought into this, I said did he do this out of spite, anger or frustration. I came to the conclusion frustration. Because he got to were he is today is not by rebelling in the sense of bitterness, but by applying himself, even through the most toughest of obsticals, and not saying that it is at all easy to do, under the circumstances.
And here to hoping he does.
Racist? See Above, or NO.

[ultraist]

19. Welcome SkyisGrey!

I think Cosby's statements, originally, were poorly communicated but as you alluded to, it seems he meant to stress the importance of beating them at their own game, so to speak or empowerment through educational or economic success, as a solution.

Success is the best revenge. ;)

[noiretextatique]

25. yes...very poorly communicated

and he was making those comments at NAACP dinners...not exactly his target audience. i simple question i posed to my friends who initially applauded his comments: do YOU need to hear his message? :7
um, no...it's for "those others."

i saw a 2/20 or 60 minutes piece on what he's doing now, and he has my complete support now because he's talking to the people he was talking about...and they are listening and receptive. if he wasn't welcome...then i'd still be wishing he'd STFU.

i give cosby a lot of credit for listening to the criticism (though he says he didn't) and getting his act together.

[Jack_DeLeon]

20. It is...

[noiretextatique]

27. care to elaborate? eom

[ulysses]

22. I've thought for a while

that Cosby's idea was a good one. The teachers (all black) I work with agree with him almost 100%. It *is* about empowerment.

No, it's not racist.

[noiretextatique]

33. i like what he's DOING now

it's a GREAT idea...and he seems to have a lot of support from the communities he was talking about.
all of my friends and relatives supported his comments, but most of the them are educated and/or professional, and certainly wouldn't think those comments applied to THEM. as i mentioned, that was my chief criticism initially...black folks are always talking about what some other black folks need to do while exempting themselves...cosby wasn't the first.
but i admit...cosby's actions have made me a believer.

[Catherine Vincent]

23. The term "Black Power" was not racists back then when it was used

by oppressed people. It is no longer used now (at least I don't think it is). Nowadays "White Power" or "Black Power" should be said.

[noiretextatique]

28. so...are you saying it once wasn't racist

but now it is? are you aware of that a part of the issue cosby is trying to address is entrenched poverty? does that qualify as oppression...or not?

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ultraist]

34. Hmmm...

:popcorn:

[noiretextatique]

41. delicious, isn't?

:rofl: i love a little :popcorn: with my troll

[shugah]

62. well what's a thread about racism

without a persecuted white guy or two? ;-)

in response to your question, no i don't think the phrase "black power" is racist. i learned something about that movement just now reading this thread. i have generally assumed it is about empowerment.

i think some white people just get really frightened when they hear the phrase, without caring too much about what it may or may not mean.

i haven't followed cosby - and actually missed most of the initial controversy, so cannot speak to that. if you say he's doing some good work, i'll take your word for it. you're certainly a "trusted source" as far as i'm concerned!

:hug:

[Bluebear]

35. "Unwhitening our nations"

You speak as though caucasians were here first. So how is the US a "white country"? Hmmmm....

[noiretextatique]

38. he speaks with forked tongue

:rofl: connected to forked brain

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[noiretextatique]

54. it's economics that brings people to rich nations

nations that acquired wealth from exploiting places like africa and south america.

[jpgray]

60. Race is blinding you, let's remove it

Take a microcosm of our world economic system. In the manor unit of an old medieval economy, the high state of luxury and leisure enjoyed by the proportionally tiny number of people in the Lord's house was possible only through the existence of a proportionally massive number of agrarian serfs that lived with little to no luxury, leisure or property. Western Europe and the US's lifestyle (a proportionally tiny amount of people) is only possible through the continued relative poverty of the rest of the world (a proportionally massive number of people). Just as you wouldn't expect the impetus for social advancement to be a moving from lord to serf in medieval times, you shouldn't expect the impetus for immigration to be a moving from rich, elite economic systems to poor, subjugated economic systems. In other words, the serfs are trying to get into the lord's house, the lord isn't trying to get out into the fields to labor in virtual and actual slavery. The latter makes no sense, and race has nothing to do with it.

[noiretextatique]

36. ask bush about empowering you

and other white people in america...and get back to me :eyes:

[Catherine Vincent]

37. Actually we need to get away with calling oneself "white" and "black"

No person is the color white or black.

[noiretextatique]

40. good idea

that should solve everything.

[noiretextatique]

44. on second thought, i should really address this

who is it that has taken power away from you? the great colored hordes, and the people who look just like you?
you have some really twisted ideas about WHY you feel powerless.
may i suggest to take a good long look in the mirror? that will give you a clue about what your enemy looks like.

[jpgray]

50. It's a question that deserves an answer

Whites are villainized because predominately white nations currently hold most of the economic power in the world, and have acquired and held it in part via the purposed subjugation of poorer nations (of any race). Our t-shirts are cheap because a girl in Beijing works sixteen-hour days for pennies--in explaining why China doesn't have an "immigration problem" you have to recall that people from Western Europe and the United States aren't exactly compelled to emigrate for that sort of job. For the same reason, people from poor nations can work just as hard in a rich nation and make much more money, and that's why they immigrate to this country and those in Western Europe in great numbers--we have hoarded enormous economic power. So for example if in the coming years China draws more and more economic power to itself, waves of immigrants from poorer nations would go there in the same way that they go to white rich countries. Then those of Chinese descent could be bitching about Caucasian Latvians stealing Chinese jobs and debasing Chinese culture--it isn't about the race, it's about the economic power.

[noiretextatique]

53. a really great answer

i think it's wasted on ths one, however i really like it :thumbsup:

[Bluebear]

59. Indeed. nt

[Lydia Leftcoast]

61. Japan has people from other Asian countries coming in illegally to

work, so why not China one day?

[maveric]

39. "Black Power" expresses the struggle to overcome oppression.

Not Black Supremecy.

[Bluebear]

42. Jinx! I JUST referenced that event!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4309625

[Bluebear]

43. AND MY THREAD WAS LOCKED!!!!

WTF?????

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

46. Did you see the thread?

How can a moderator get inside my head? I saw NO locked thread and I am not trying to "restart" anything!

I thought some history via the pageant was extremely appropriate. Watch me get banned next.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Catherine Vincent]

51. hmmm...

Shouldn't you edit that post? Are you talking about the mods or DU members?

[noiretextatique]

55. both eom

[Catherine Vincent]

47. LOL!

Not laughing at you, Bluebear.

[Bluebear]

49. I know

[SkyIsGrey]

56. Did the moderator...

just read the subject line? As if that would have any controversy at all. The subject itself is not controversial, why lock it? My head hurts.

[Bluebear]

58. I dunno. I guess I was "trying' something

Welcome to DU btw.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

57. "White Power" was the racist reaction to Black Power

I remember when Stokely Carmichael started preaching it. Because his pep talks occurred in the same general time period as the Watts riots and other "long hot summers," they scared a lot of uninformed whites, especially those who had something to feel guilty about.

To me, the White Power movement is semi-Astroturf, fomented as a divide and conquer technique to convince ignorant poor whites that their plight can be blamed on African-Americans.

I'm not up on Bill Cosby's recent activities, but I know that there are constructive and non-constructive ways to respond to oppression. The commercial media have chosen to glorify a specific subculture within the Black community (and every other community where poverty is rampant), the gang members, the mean, tough, sexually irresponsible, materialistic lowest common denominator, the artists most likely to die from gunshot wounds, not the positive practitioners of the hip-hop esthetic.

That glorification of the criminal and semi-criminal, like the explosion of crack cocaine in Black neighborhoods in the 1980s, is a handy way to keep Black youth out of the mainstream.

If Bill Cosby is telling youth not to be taken in by the marketers of violence, crass materialism, and sexual irresponsibility, more power to him.

[pinto]

63. Locking.

Questions/comments about moderator actions are best addressed to DU Administrators directly, via this link.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/contact.html

Thanks for your consideration.