WTC death toll growing (Polish daily)

[moodforaday]

The largest circulation Polish daily (Gazeta Wyborcza - some RW slant but does good investigative journalism on occasion) carries the following in today's issue - in my rush translation:

WTC death toll growing
10 Aug 2005

Nearly four years since Twin Towers were destroyed, rescuers who worked at the WTC site continue dying. Among them are many Poles.

According to doctor Roman Pabis, director of a Polish-language Institute for Mental Health in New York, patients flock in large numbers to seek help, depressed and afraid of death. Within the last year more than ten deaths have been recorded of workers who cleared the rubble at Ground Zero. Lung cancer and acute respiratory and cardiovascular diseases have caused most of these fatalities.

Despite toxic fumes from the smoldering rubble, workers wore masks which were not equipped with filters capable of stopping the poisons in the air they breathed. More than 500 Poles remain hospitalized in New York, many of them in critical condition.

Link to the article (in Polish; just for the record):
http://serwisy.gazeta.pl/swiat/1,34180,2862866.html

This is the article in full. I can't find any English-language source to corroborate the story. (Indira Singh talks about this at length in part 1 of the Guns and Butter interview, though.) Google confirms doctor Roman Pabis is the director at
St. Marks Place Institute
212-982-3470
57 St. Marks Place
New York, NY 10003
http://www.childabusepreventionprogram.org/manhattanresource.htm

The article is concerned with Polish expatriates in NYC, but with 500 hospitalized among those only, there must be many more Americans suffering the same. I don't know what else to say, I'm a little choked up right now to be honest. Is this receiving any media attention at all?

(edited for typos)

[Lisa]

1. thanks for posting ...

I've been collecting info on this topic, for an academic study -- some people will wait years to die.

And once the spotlight is off, the WH will cut back medical funding, even for the much-vaunted firefighters they used for PR purposes.

[moodforaday]

2. You could get in touch with the doctor

(contact info in my OP). I would assume he broke the story to the paper, so he may well be willing to talk.

[BrklynLiberal]

3. Another bit of info that the American MSM will not carry...

Also note that NYC was asked by Bush Administration to refund the money that NYC govt kept aside for long term medical treatment for those that that worked on the WTC looking for survivors and clearing the rubble.

[Beaver Tail]

4. Wasnt Asbestos used in the WTC?

Asbestos is a carcinogen. I had this worry sense the WTC was destroyed by the terrorist. How many people in NYC have died directly as a result or cancer cause by asbestos?

Edit for typos

[moodforaday]

8. Asbestos and all the plastics

from computer equipment and other electronics - when this burns, it exmits toxic fumes. Lots of mercury too, apparently (from fire detectors? - not sure).

[despairing optimist]

9. Yes, asbestos was used in the WTC towers.

I think one tower had it throughout, and the other had it up to the 40th floor because that's how far construction on that building had progressed when the law banning asbestos took effect.

I took a subway ride down to the site shortly after restrictions were lifted and "just anyone" could travel there. EPA assured residents and office workers that the air was just fine. I visited for about an hour just to take it all in, and I came down with cold-like sniffles and a sore throat that lasted for several days. Imagine what it was like to work directly on the ruins for long days on end. No wonder people are still sick.

[Lisa]

10. yes -- the epidemiology guy in my department looked at the cloud ...

... during the 9/11 TV coverage, and said that a lot of people would be getting sick. He's studied asbestos for decades. It can take a decade or two for the cancers to show up.

Unfortunately, the vacuum trucks sent down to the site may have made things worse. They didn't have the correct-sized filters to screen out asbestos dust, so they ended up kicking more of the particles into the air, for people to breathe in.

[hack89]

14. CHEMICAL ANALYSIS OF A DISASTER

http://pubs.acs.org/cen/NCW/8142aerosols.html

[EC]

24. I thought about this when Peter

Jennings died, since he quit smoking 20years before 9/11 and started again on that day, along with all the carcinogens in the air for months after....I really couldn't believe it was just the cigerettes...

[Princess Turandot]

26. I think that asbestos exposure takes longer to kill you..

either longer exposure or longer time sitting in your body, when you later get a cancer like mesothelioma.

My grandfather, father, and 2 uncles all were asbestos workers and all died from cancer. My father & one uncle made it to 60, one uncle died at 40, and I think the GF made it into his early seventies. They'd all worked for at least 15 years with the stuff, before the need for precautions were even publicized by a great doctor & researcher named Irving Selikoff. My mother developed a cancer when she was 38, and my much older sister had thyroid cancer when she was 14. For the first 15+ years of their marriage, my father used to bring his work clothes home & my mother would wash them in the machine used for the family clothing. They started taking more precautions around the time I was born and so far, both my older brother & myself have been okay. (My mother survived her cancer, altho she later developed another type which she also beat, and my sister is alive and well and abt as horrible a human being as you would ever meet!)

Living abt 2 miles north from the WTC, I still remember days of an awful odor in the air, especially when the humidity was high. At the time I was thinking more abt breathing in the remains of fellow NY'ers, not pollutants, altho I'm sure they were present.

[Spinzonner]

5. Any comments from the EPA on this ?

OF course, we know about their lies about the safety of the air post 9/11.

[Incitatus]

6. Yup

EPA Report: White House Lied to New Yorkers About Health Hazards Near Ground Zero

An Environmental Protection Agency report released Friday reveals that the National Security Council pressured EPA officials to downplay the health hazards caused by the collapse of the World Trade Center.
The public was lied to about the extensive presence of asbestos from the two buildings, toxic dioxins floating in the downtown air, and increased amounts of lead found in the atmosphere. The report reveals the trail of public misinformation began in the White House.....


http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/08/26/145232

[despairing optimist]

11. That lie may have been at least one of the reasons Christie Whitman quit

EPA. Of course she would have done the public a far greater service if she had refused to release the dangerously misleading report and had resigned with a press conference explaining her reasons. But then I must be confusing her with the tooth fairy or someone with a conscience.

[moodforaday]

13. Bush to New Yorkers: Drop Dead

Air Pollution (and Deception) at Ground Zero - Sierra Club
http://www.sierraclub.org/groundzero/summary.asp
(Detailed article)

Bush to New Yorkers: Drop Dead
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0903-01.htm

[moodforaday]

16. One more from Salon

Needs subscription though:
http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2003/08/15/dust/print.html

[Al-CIAda]

7. More murder on the Bu$hco Crime Family hands.

Most of the search dogs are already dead. It is thought Christine Todd-Whitmann resigned over this , but remains silent.

Collateral damage in the war on truth.

[nashville_brook]

12. wondering if christopher reeves wife spent time near ground zero ??

[Tuesday_Morning]

19. Didn't Peter Jennings

do a fair amount of reporting from Ground Zero?

[nashville_brook]

22. good point -- wonder how many new yorkers are going to be coming

down with lung cancer. hmmmm.

[Alpharetta]

15. WhiteHouse WTC death toll will exceed Osama's

When more cleanup workers die than were killed on 9/11, then which will be the bigger killer?

Christine Todd Whitman and the EPA's verdict that lower Manhattan was safe on 9/12?

Or Osama?

[MelissaB]

17. I'm still amazed at the lies from this administration.

My brother lived a few blocks away from ground zero and reading things like this scares me and makes me angrier.

[Gay Green]

20. It should make you angrier. I remember news photos of the insides

of peoples' apartments and the layer of powdered cement, etc., etc., that had settled out the air was an eighth of an inch thick.

:mad: :grr: :nuke:

[frictionlessO]

23. Here's the sad part...

it should.

There was no excuse to keep so many people so close in for so long so quickly after the chnaces of survivors decreased. The public would have understood the health hazard because everyone was concerened about it.

The entire country should be mad as hell, but most don't even know.

[Mr_Spock]

18. bummer

that sucks

[CHIMO]

21. Another Link

On the topic.

http://www.democracynow.org/search.pl?query=world+trade+center+asbestos

[bobbieinok]

25. thanks for finding + posting.......info we all need

[applegrove]

27. Thanks for posting. There were heroes all over the place on that day.

The high metal workers who built the WTC(originally from Iroquois Country in Quebec & and some descendant from Newfoundland fishermen) showed up to help clean the WTC site and find victims. Some of them have PTSD, illness and marriage troubles. And some of them will be rebuilding on the site.

This is the real face of 9/11. Many, many heroes.

Too bad none of them would feel comfortable logging onto some of the forums here.

[Stephanie]

28. I really doubt it.

I really doubt 500 Polish WTC rescue workers are hospitalized in NYC. I think we would have heard about it. Hillary Clinton initiated a health study to track the rescue workers. If 500 POLISH ONLY workers were hospitalized, then how many Irish, Black, Hispanic, Italian? Say 500 each - so 2500 rescue workers are hospitalized in NYC? Highly doubtful. And out of how many rescue/recovery in total? I don't know how many there could have been but I doubt it was more than 5000. The site is not that big - it is four square blocks, approximately. So how many rescue workers could there have been in total? So according to my calculations, half of the rescue/recovery workers would be hospitalized right now. And Hillary Clinton's follow-up study on their health would not be noting this? I call bullshit on this story. NOT that I don't think the asbestos etc is going to kill people but I just can't believe 500 Polish rescue workers are hospitalized. Strains credibility. I don't think it's true. And I am right her in NYC, and there has been no reporting of this at all.

[rman]

31. "we would have heard about it"

Many things happen that we should hear about, but don't. Do you really trust the MSM to report on everyting that's important? Do you think that everything that is not reported in the MSM is not happening?

You should know that the MSM do not report on things that might hurt their corporate owners, who are intertwined with politics.

[Stephanie]

32. Apparently you think I am stupid.

Yes, I am well aware that corporate media lies. But this is a local NYC story. And I don't believe it, any more than I beileve there were explosives planted in the Towers. Just because the MSM doesn't report it doesn't make it true.

[rman]

36. The collapse of the towers caused massive health problems for many

Even though there was/is virtually no coverage of it in the MSM.

I'd suggest you listen to Indira Singh's testimony before the 9-11 Citizens' Commission. Part of her story is her experience as a resque worker at ground zero, and how ill she and many other became as a result.

Testimony before the 9-11 Citizens' Commission headed by Cynthia McKinney
http://911busters.com/911-Commission.html (audio and video)
- Indira Singh Sibel's Letter (testimony starts at about 10min.)

[Stephanie]

37. I am not arguing that people's health is affected

I'm quite sure it's going to affect my own health - I spent too much time in that vicinity in the weeks that followed 9/11. My only dispute is with this claim that 500 Polish rescue/recovery workers are hospitalized. I think that's a tall tale.

[moodforaday]

33. That's why I posted contact information

The doctor is real and so is his institute. I can't really say if the number he supposedly gave is true or not, but (1) you may be underestimating the number of Polish people in New York :), and (2) practically *everybody* who worked at Ground Zero will be at risk now. And not just the rescue workers, but also, I suppose, all those many New Yorkers whose apartments were flooded with the toxic residue.

[Stephanie]

34. I agree that everyone who breathed the air at Ground Zero is at risk

And that would include me, as I am a mile north of there. But I don't belive 500 Polish rescue workers are in the hospital. I really don't think so.

[dmr]

29. From the Salon article:

http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2003/08/15/dust/print.html

The snippet below is a discussion concerning just Deutsche Bank:

- snip -

The dust, 3 feet deep in places, filled the hallways. A dangerous toxic mold spread from the two damp basement levels, shooting sticky black vines like alien fingertips through the elevator shafts to the upper floors. On the north side of the building a 24-story-tall gash exposed the dust and mold to the wind, sun and rain. Most of the windows were gone.

The building was directly downwind of the plume of toxic debris pumped through Manhattan and Brooklyn by the force of the Trade Center collapse, and it provides one of the best records of what made up the cloud. For months after the attacks, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency insisted that the dust contained few contaminants and posed little health risk to anyone but those caught in the initial plume from the towers' collapse. "Everything we've tested for, which includes asbestos, lead, and volatile organic compounds, have been below any level of concern for the general public health," Christine Todd Whitman, then the Bush administration's EPA chief, told PBS "NewsHour" in April 2002. Even last December, assistant regional EPA administrator Kathleen Callahan reiterated that assessment before the New York City Council: "I think the results that we're getting back show that there isn't contamination everywhere."

But Deutsche Bank's owners, curious to know the extent of their liability and to properly evaluate the potential danger to their own employees, privately conducted their own extensive tests. The findings: Astronomical levels of asbestos and a long list of toxic ingredients that pose a significant risk of cancer, birth defects, nerve damage and other ominous health problems.

More than 2,000 buildings in lower Manhattan were exposed to the same wave of debris and dust, and many were filled with residents and office workers within days after the attacks. Today, the Deutsche Bank findings and an emerging body of studies by private agencies and the EPA itself sharply contradict the initial EPA assessment and suggest that the federal government overlooked a substantial threat that could ultimately harm more people than the terrorist attacks.

The cloud of pulverized debris was a virtual soup of toxic substances: Cancer-causing asbestos. PCBs -- one of the most toxic and dangerous industrial chemicals -- from a giant electrical transformer and waste oil. Mercury, which can cause nerve damage and birth defects, from the thousands of laptop computer screens that were atomized that day. Thousands of tons of pulverized concrete, which can sear the soft membrane of the lungs. Dioxin, which can damage the central nervous system and cause birth defects. The EPA's final report on air quality released in January 2003 called the Trade Center collapse the largest single release of dioxin in world history -- more than enough, on its own, to establish lower Manhattan as a federal Superfund site.

Immediately after the towers collapsed, and as fires burned for days afterward, that cloud filtered its way through window seals and ventilation ducts of thousands of buildings, even those thought to be undamaged and safe. It accumulated in the corners of homes, behind bookcases and under beds. Even today, it is in the carpeting of schools and on the desktops of offices, in the ventilation systems of many buildings that have not been cleaned.

More ...

There's more devasting information out there that include other damaging chemicals. Just look at the links added in this thread. You can listen to some devastating discussions here: http://www.democracynow.org/search.pl?query=world+trade+center+asbestos

[demodonkey]

30. Anybody have any info about how FAR uptown the mess may have spread?

I need help regarding Houston St. and 6th Ave, what might be in thick gray dust still in an apartment there?

I understand there is somewhere a group still studying this with an eye toward possibility that the toxics traveled much further than originally thought -- if you know ANYthing about this please post and/or PM!

[Stephanie]

35. an apt full of WTC dust? I would think that is very hazardous.

I am 14 blocks north of Houston and I had to keep my windows closed for days because the smoke was so intense up here. If the apt owner is in NYC I would have them call 311 for information on how to get the apartment cleaned. My friends who lived across the street from the site had to abandon their apartment and most of their clothing and furniture.

[demodonkey]

38. Not sure if it is WTC dust or just plain dust...

I know it sounds crazy but apartment has been closed up since before 9/11. Dust is very gray and not exactly like regular normal NYC dirt, IMHO?

Apartment owner has already called Nadler's office, they got back to the owner once and said they would follow up with more info on who to contact about testing the dust. But no call again from Nadler's people in over 6 weeks.

Another thing to consider is that since it has been closed up since then, the apartment would maybe be a good testing lab if some agency is wanting to still conduct studies to see how far the dust actually went.

Are you near 14th Street then? And the smoke was horrible there? Was there any dust that settled that far uptown, or just smoke?

[Lisa]

39. just to chime in here -- very fine particulates can travel a long way

And those are the ones which may be most hazardous, because our bodies aren't equipped to filter them out before they hit our lungs ... and also they can have all kinds of nasty stuff stuck on the outsides. The more they find out about PM2.5 and smaller, the more unpleasant the picture. Lots of organochlorines released by the combustion, and gobs of ultra-fine particles for them to adhere to -- not a good combination.

The bad news is, the EPA vacuum trucks that were going around NYC weren't fitted out for this kind of thing, and might have made the situation worse. My guess is that the residences and businesses would need special cleaning (HEPA filters, even finer, to get as many of those particles as possible). Fine particles can get into buildings in all kinds of ways, air vents etc., so even rooms with doors and windows locked prior to the event and not ventured into since might have picked up some contamination. I think that your idea about the "testing lab" scenario is excellent, demodonkey. It could be used as a baseline (for comparison to other places in the city) and also as a way to check our suspicions about it being WTC dust. If you can't find anyone to check right away, taking a bunch of samples from various parts of the room and double-bagging them for later could come in handy.