Excellent point regarding the Pledge

[Ready4Change]

Just watching a local TV news report. Talking about a guy in VA who is objecting to the words "under God" in the Pledge, and was trying to not have the Pledge be a part of public schools.

He made a very good point.

If the words "under God" are not an attempt to inject religion into schools, why are religious organizations so up in arms over attempts to remove those words from schools?

Dang good point.

[Spider Jerusalem]

1. An even better question:

why do we need the damned thing in the first place? It amounts to a loyalty oath, being imposed on children many of whom are too young to understand it. Can we say "nationalistic indoctrination"? I can't think of any other countries (save those with totalitarian regimes) that expect this sort of thing of schoolchildren...if you ask me, the whole thing is un-American.

[lildreamer316]

5. Even better point.

Never thought of it that way. Arg.

[jayctravis]

9. The words that should be removed are "to the flag"

I pledge allegiance to the United States of America.
And to the Republic for which they stand;
one Nation under God, indivisible, with
Liberty and Justice for All.

Every elected official at a swearing in should say this.

And it should be official that no person shall be persecuted for leaving "under God" out, or speaking their personal word for "god" in its place.

[Spider Jerusalem]

10. But it oughtn't to be required of schoolchildren.

I personally have a problem with making an oath compulsory upon people who aren't assuming office under the US government and aren't joining the military. No reason for it.

[jayctravis]

11. I agree.

I was going to note that but didn't. It should certainly be taught in a government or history or perhaps even social studies class, and I do believe it to be one of the few texts that *should* be committed to memory. When someone *does* recite the pledge you should be able to know what they're saying and know what it means.

In high school we had to memorize the Preamble to the Constitution. We also had to pass a half-year of government studies where you're *supposed* to be taught the danged structure of our political system.

[wli]

2. as an atheist, I was always offended by it

[Ready4Change]

14. Always seemed weird to me, too.

I wasn't bothered by it, but I wondered what kids in my class of other religious thought of it/did about it. Even at a young age I believed in respecting other religions, and that some people weren't of the same religion I was brought up in.

Silly me, daydreaming and thinking when I was supposed to be being brainwashed?

[WMliberal]

3. if there's the word Gawd and it's already in the schools,

they'll fight tooth and nail to keep it there. They don't care how asinine it is. The word Gawd is there.

[reformedrepub]

4. Pledge Info

The phrase "under god" was not added to the Pledge until 1954, when President Eisenhower and Congress during the height of the "Red Scare" added it to appease the Knights of Columbus. The "greatest generation" never said "under god" during the pledge in schools and they did alright!!

[Gildor Inglorion]

7. I remember it well...

we had to start saying "under God" and it sounded so STRANGE...I was in the fourth grade at the time. To tell the truth, we didn't say it every single day. Maybe once a week if the teacher thought about it. On the other hand, school always opened with a prayer by the teacher.

[TechBear_Seattle]

8. And further

The author of the original Pledge -- the one with no mention of God -- was Francis Bellamy, a Baptist minister. If he didn't see any need to include supernaturalism....

[VPStoltz]

18. I'm with you on that.

If the Repugs want to turn back the clock to things the way they used to be, then let's go back the Pledge the way it used to be and leave God out of it.

[ConsAreLiars]

19. Not only a baptist mister, but a socialist, like all true Christians or

Muslims or Hindus or atheists. All teach that we are one world, we are in this together, and serving the common good is best for all of us.

[TechBear_Seattle]

6. No better proof of religious intent

Than President Eisenhower's own words when he signed "Under God" in to law on June 14, 1954:

From this day forward, the millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty. (see http://www.bartleby.com/63/88/88.html)

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

12. Personally, I favor . . .

...a pledge more reflective of the country we now
live in:

http://www.karlandkinggeorge.com

[newyawker99]

20. Hi Mr_Jefferson_24!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Sapphire Blue]

13. Original Pledge... as written by Francis Bellamy, a Christian SOCIALIST

The Pledge of Allegiance
A Short History
by Dr. John W. Baer


Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931), a Baptist minister, wrote the original Pledge in August 1892. He was a Christian Socialist. In his Pledge, he is expressing the ideas of his first cousin, Edward Bellamy, author of the American socialist utopian novels, Looking Backward (1888) and Equality (1897).

Francis Bellamy in his sermons and lectures and Edward Bellamy in his novels and articles described in detail how the middle class could create a planned economy with political, social and economic equality for all. The government would run a peace time economy similar to our present military industrial complex.

The Pledge was published in the September 8th issue of The Youth's Companion, the leading family magazine and the Reader's Digest of its day. Its owner and editor, Daniel Ford, had hired Francis in 1891 as his assistant when Francis was pressured into leaving his baptist church in Boston because of his socialist sermons. As a member of his congregation, Ford had enjoyed Francis's sermons. Ford later founded the liberal and often controversial Ford Hall Forum, located in downtown Boston.

<snip>

His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. < * 'to' added in October, 1892. >

Continued @ http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm

[niallmac]

15. Makalaka Hi Muka Hynee Ho! n/t

[GuvWurld]

16. I'm stuck on the word "indivisible"

First let me say that I have never said the pledge, even as a kid. I just stood silently. I hate forced recitation like I hate choreography. My loyalty, my word, my dance or any other expression, must be free, unforced, and unencumbered entirely. I especially didn't like the "under God" part.

But in more recent years the word I've been expecting to see emphasized is "indivisible." Who are we fucking kidding? This government has amassed its fascist powers and controls by intentionally being divisive. It always works that way.

[progressoid]

17. Plus it's inaccurate - we aren't one nation under God.

Even if you dismiss the 10-15% of us that don't believe in god, it's quite a stretch to think that the rest of the nation is talking about the same god. It would be more accurate to say "one nation under gods". If a Christian, Hindu and a Wiccan all say the pledge, one can safely say they aren't talking about the same God.

Besides,if I were a believer, I would take offense that the gov't has decided to declare some generic, all-purpose god for the pledge. That's pretty assuming of them.