Fired for "romance" while SEPARATED???

[SoCalDem]

Violation of "adultery regulations"... Boy howdy....I guess a legal separation doesn't mean a whole lot to the military...

I doubt that this is the reason the General got fired, but they are trying very hard to spin this ....

There HAS to be more to this..

He was 3 months away from retirement..why bnot just let him retire, and let it go?? He must have REALLY pissed someone off..

Does he still get his pension?? That would suck to put in that many years, be a general, and lose a pension over a trumped up charge..

Maybe he'll be mad enough to SING LIKE A BIRDIE ???

[Avalux]

1. HUH?

I must have missed this....do you have a link to the story? Thanks! :hi:

[SoCalDem]

2. USA TOday..(found the link)

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-08-10-general-romance_x.htm


Posted 8/10/2005 10:26 PM



General lost job over romance, his lawyer says


By Dave Moniz, USA TODAY

WASHINGTON — The four-star Army general who was fired this week had been romantically involved with a civilian woman while separated from his wife, his attorney said Wednesday.

Lt. Col. Dave Robertson, the attorney for Gen. Kevin Byrnes, said the woman was not connected to the military and the relationship has ended. He challenged the severity of the punishment for Byrnes, 52, who was three months from retirement when he was fired as head of the Training and Doctrine Command. He had served for 36 years.
The Army announced the dismissal Tuesday after reviewing the report of a Defense Department investigation. It gave no reason, but Army spokesman Paul Boyce cited "personal conduct."

"We were surprised" at the dismissal, "based on my reading of the findings of the investigation," Robertson said.
He said the relationship, a violation of adultery regulations, was the only allegation of an improper relationship in the investigation. He would not comment on whether he plans to challenge the firing.
Boyce said the Army would have no further comment.

snip

[Avalux]

14. Thanks. He did something else -

this sort of impropriety occurs all the time in the military and action is rarely taken. For such a drastic move against a 4 star general, they were looking for a reason to get rid of him. Unfortunately, he gave them one.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

4. It made the papers, too

NYT,
ChiTrib
others.


It does seem to have more to it.
The House of Rummy is a scary place these days.
Sleep with someone after you file divorce paper? you are out.
order torture until death, and you get a white wash.

[SoCalDem]

5. She was not even connected to the military

:eyes:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

6. there has to be more to the story.

I do not know what
perhaps the proposed changes to the US military's right to take action within US territory?

[RaleighNCDUer]

25. I missed that - what proposed changes? nt

[ChairmanAgnostic]

27. debate between HSA and DOD over who controls troops on US soil

they have plans to use US troops to enforce martial law either locally, regionally or nationally.
"In case of a major terrorist threat" or some bull like that.

It was in the papers, under a slightly different tone, just this week.

If you read between the lines, they are saying that our military can be used against us. in the name of democracy. Security. terror.

[SoCalDem]

28. posse commitatus

suspension of civil rights..martial law.. (George Bush's fondest dream)

[ChairmanAgnostic]

31. bingo

I cannot wait.
Maybe gun ownership is not such a bad idea.

[RaleighNCDUer]

33. Thanks.

Been on vacation for a week and blessedly out of touch. Sometimes it's difficult being constantly appalled by these ... people.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

3. He disagreed with the administration....

imho

link to LBN thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1687961#1688036

Wayne Madison says....
August 10, 2005 -- Sudden resignation of TRADOC Commander, Gen. There's much more to this story than a "sexual indiscretion." The sudden firing of U.S. Army Training and Doctrine (TRADOC) Commander, four star General and New York City native Kevin P. Byrnes, one of only 11 four star generals in the Army, has much more to do with a policy dispute than an anonymous Pentagon-reported story about an alleged "extra-marital affair." Although Byrnes has recently been involved in divorce proceedings, Pentagon insiders report that Byrnes was fired for insubordination. Byrnes' firing fits a pattern of neocon demonizing of policy opponents by tossing out unsubstantiated charges from "anonymous source." For example, when Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski was demoted to Colonel over trumped up charges over her role as commander of Iraqi prisons during the time of the prisoner abuse (and after she revealed the presence of Israeli interrogators in Iraqi prisons), the Pentagon spin machine, joined at the hips with neo-con think thanks and media outlets in Washington, cited a dated and totally unsubstantiated shoplifting accusation against her. Army Chief of Staff Gen. Peter Schoomaker, who Donald Rumsfeld hauled out of retirement to head up the Army after Gen. Eric Shinseki was fired and after no other active duty general wanted the job, relieved Byrnes of his command at Fort Monroe, Virginia. Byrnes had previous run-ins with the neo-cons in the Pentagon. In 2002, Byrnes was faced with being retired at Lt. Gen. after he clashed with then-Rumsfeld aide Stephen Cambone over proposed troop strength cuts. Then Army Secretary Thomas White, intervened on behalf of Byrnes and he received his fourth star. White was later fired by the Pentagon neo-cons.

What has not been reported is that recently, one of Byrnes' subordinate commands, Fort Rucker in Alabama, had been told to stand by for an influx of 50,000 military trainees -- a level the base has not seen since the Vietnam War. Byrnes' relief of command came on the heels of the Pentagon announcing that it might permit Spanish-language entrance examinations. Byrnes, who was in charge of Army training, would not only face recruits with lower education levels, criminal records, but a lack of proficiency in English. Pentagon insiders report that it was Byrnes' policy disagreements with the Pentagon neo-cons over the new recruitment policies and the potential for calling up Army retirees and reinstating military conscription without adequate TRADOC funding that resulted in his firing. The personal misconduct charges were concocted by the Pentagon to cover up the fact that there are serious disagreements with Bush and Rumsfeld among the flag officer ranks in the military.

Byrnes was also associated with a group of officers who spent time at the U.S. Army War College at Carlisle Barracks in Pennsylvania. The Army War College has been a center of opposition to the war in Iraq and it is believed that Byrnes was recognized by the neo-cons as one of the unofficial leaders of a group of Army flag rank opponents of Bush's war in Iraq and potential military action against Iran.

http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/

FYI - always take Madison with a grain of salt.

[tsuki]

24. Why is Wayne Madsen afraid of the word "Conservative?" He always

uses the term neocon. I am in a red area. Everyone I talk to is NOT a "neocon." They are "Conservative." Nevermind that they spout every talking point, every lie. "Neocons" are bad. "Conservatives" are good.

NEWS FLASH - Neocons are Conservatives down here, and I suspect everywhere else. Don't give Conservatives a free pass. Don't be frightened to use the term Conservative; it is what they are.

[spotbird]

32. Wayne is a kooky but he's right about this.

Conservatives want government out of people's lives, neocons want governmental control of individual rights. Conservatives believe in fiscal responsibility, neocons believe that the bankruptcy of the country is a laudable goal.

The list is long but there are extreme differences in the two political philosophies.

[tsuki]

37. You are confusing Republican and Conservative. eom

[Mairead]

35. Nope. Conservative isn't at all the same as neo-con

Conservative is what Eisenhower was. And Gov. Elmer Anderson of Minnesota. People like that. Decent people. Even people like Nixon.

Keillor pegged the difference. Conservatives were (and are) "pragmatic Main Street businessmen in steel-rimmed spectacles who decried profligacy and waste, were devoted to their communities and supported the sort of prosperity that raises all ships. They were good-hearted people who vanquished the gnarlier elements of their party, the paranoid Roosevelt-haters, the flat Earthers and Prohibitionists, the antipapist antiforeigner element. The genial Eisenhower was their man, a genuine American hero of D-Day, who made it OK for reasonable people to vote Republican. He brought the Korean War to a stalemate, produced the Interstate Highway System, declined to rescue the French colonial army in Vietnam, and gave us a period of peace and prosperity, in which (oddly) American arts and letters flourished and higher education burgeoned—and there was a degree of plain decency in the country. Fifties Republicans were giants compared to today’s. Richard Nixon was the last Republican leader to feel a Christian obligation toward the poor."

Neo-cons, on the other hand, are the "hairy-backed swamp developers and corporate shills, faith-based economists, fundamentalist bullies with Bibles, Christians of convenience, freelance racists, misanthropic frat boys, shrieking midgets of AM radio, tax cheats, nihilists in golf pants, brownshirts in pinstripes, sweatshop tycoons, hacks, fakirs, aggressive dorks, Lamborghini libertarians, people who believe Neil Armstrong’s moonwalk was filmed in Roswell, New Mexico, little honkers out to diminish the rest of us, Newt’s evil spawn and their Etch-A-Sketch president, a dull and rigid man suspicious of the free flow of information and of secular institutions, whose philosophy is a jumble of badly sutured body parts trying to walk".

That's a damned big difference, 'f ya ask me.

[tsuki]

36. That is why we cannot frame. We always give them an out.

We yak and yak about minuscule intelligentsia points. We bisect, parsec, compartmentalize until we finally stand for nothing. Neocon IS Conservative.

Eisenhower was a MODERATE Republican, he was never a Conservative. Nelson Rockefeller was a MODERATE-TO-LIBERAL Republican. Republican does not equal Conservative, but neocon does equal Conservative. There is no neocon. It is simply a way to keep from having Conservatism branded like they branded Liberal.

[raccoon]

30. I was wondering when this was coming!

"Byrnes' relief of command came on the heels of the Pentagon announcing that it might permit Spanish-language entrance examinations. "

It won't surprise me AT ALL if the US in the near future has entire companies made up of Spanish-speaking people.

Americans, even the Bushbots, don't want to lose their children in imperial wars.

To many people in Mexico and Central America, a regular paycheck in the US military would look good--certainly better than any opportunities they have in their own country. The US will offer US citizenship for military service.

I was wondering about this several months ago. I'd bet you anything this has been discussed by the decision makers.

[DanCa]

7. Okay they worry about this but torture is okay?

Nice set of family values huh?

[SoCalDem]

10. The 3 months is key here.. The guy was a BIG SHOT in the army

"professional courtesy" would say.. "hey let's warn him and start an internal "investigation"..he'll retire before we finish it, and then it will fade away"..

There's a reason they want to humiliate him and drag his name through the papers and tv-land..He may be about to start talking, and they got wind of it.. Pre-emptive character assassination..

[racaulk]

12. That's exactly what Randi said yesterday

Pain and torture = good

Sex between consenting adults = bad

[DanCa]

19. welcome to DU Racaulk

yeah this culture of life crew is a very odd click isn't it?

[racaulk]

34. Hi DanCa!

Thanks for the welcome. I'm glad that I'm here. Knowing that I'm not alone in my concern for the direction our country has taken helps keep me sane and focused. :-)

And yes, the "culture of life" is quite a misnomer. The concern for life apparently only applies to those that are inside a woman's womb. After birth, there is no concern for making sure everyone has affordable and effective health care to maintain their quality of life. And this "culture of life" allows the rich to profit from the death of the poor in an unnecessary war. It astounds me how the sheeple buy into that totally transparent hypocrisy.

[DanCa]

20. welcome to DU Racaulk

yeah this culture of life crew is a very odd click isn't it?

[DanCa]

21. welcome to DU Racaulk

yeah this culture of life crew is a very odd click isn't it?

[gumby]

8. FYI

Four Star General Fired For Organizing Coup Against Neo-Cons?

As per following post, link edited out.

Many people find this source unreliable.

[Avalux]

9. DU does not recognize that as a credible source -

and will delete posts that link to it. Please don't use it again (might be best to edit out of your post). Thanks!

[bonzotex]

11. classic...

Torture prisoners, kill civilians, get a medal and a promotion. Have sex with a non-approved consenting adult, get fired and run out on a rail.

This isn't new in the military. No matter how incompetent, it is almost impossible for a O-6 (full Colonel, Navy Captain)or above to get fired for anything except sex. Get caught screwing the help or anybody not your spouse, and you are toast. Getting "caught" is the key here.

There is something definitely wrong in a country where it's acceptable and common to talk about and even glorify violence, murder, War and death, but so many blush leaves the room when someone mentions sex.

[ohio_liberal]

13. He's not the first general to get in trouble

General Ralston also had a love affair when he was separated and it sidetracked his career. He didn't get kicked out, but it did do damage.

edited to add:

General Ralston was in line to be the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

[SoCalDem]

15. These panty-sniffers really worry me.. They seem to spend WAAAAY

too much time sneaking around looking for sex-capades..They need some counseling to help them concentrate on their JOBS instead of trying to figure out "who's gay".."who's doing whom" etc..

They seem to have a lot of free time to ponder all the possibilities..

Someone needs to order a TON of worry beads for these uptight repressed puritanical sex-hounds:)

[bribri16]

No, fired for being against Bushco! n/t

[jojo54]

16. The one thing that pisses me off about this whole thing is

this General is now pegged for the rest of his life, all because he was "not with us". He now has to bear a label for the rest of his life because he dared speak out against the administration.

How un-American of him!! :sarcasm:

[SoCalDem]

17. and a clever pre-emptive strike against him..(Scott Ritter ring a bell)

Any broadcast that might have been taklking to him regarding Iraq and training of new recruits, will be warned off him.. No book deal..no interviews..no credibility..

[wakeme2008]

18. He still gets full retirement

Only a Court Martial can take that away from you.

[tsuki]

22. B-effing-S. Sounds like he's being Blomberg-Fritsch'd. If history

is the model, he must have P.O.'d Rove and Cheney. Wonder what he knows if they feel the need to discredit him 3 months from retirement.

[RaleighNCDUer]

26. Might not be such a bad thing --

he can get started on his "where the bodies are buried" book three months earlier.

We can hope.

[tsuki]

29. But they discredit him in advance. That is the strength of the

Conservative movement. They are not afraid to slander and smear anyone.

[leftchick]

23. a first for me. I agreed with that cafferty jerk on CNN about this

He had a question of the day about this yesterday. he actually pointed out the absurdity of punishing this guy when no one of high rank has suffered for Abu Ghraib!

:wow:

[SoCalDem]

38. To agree with Jack Cafferty?? That IS scary, isn't it?

He's a loony guy.