Need help with response to email...

[Dawgs]

Just received this from my Uncle. It goes through several examples of where God and the Ten Commandments already exist around government.

...near the end it asks the question.

"It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God. Therefore, it is very hard to understand why there is such a mess about having the Ten Commandments on display or "In God We Trust" on our money and having God in the Pledge of Allegiance."

If you agree, pass this on

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I usually don't respond to these emails out of respect for my Mom's brother, but not anymore.

Any ideas on how I should respond? I want to say something factual, respectful, and to the point.

[justinsb]

1. It may be that 86% believe in God

But is it all the same god? Even according to this 14% of Americans are Athiest (That's a hefty minority, about the same as the number of African Americans). Of the remaining 86% how many are Christian? Muslim? Jewish? Buddhist? Other?

[NYCGirl]

2. This might help from Snopes:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/capital.asp

[Avalux]

3. I got the same thing - laughable

here's a good site with quotes from our founding fathers. Let 'em have it!
____________________

The Bible? Here is what our Founding Fathers wrote about Bible-based Christianity:

Thomas Jefferson:

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth."
SIX HISTORIC AMERICANS,
by John E. Remsburg, letter to William Short

Jefferson again:

"Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus."

More Jefferson:

"The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.

Jefferson's word for the Bible? "Dunghill."

http://www.postfun.com/worbois.html

Also, "God" on money and in the Pledge of Allegiance was added in the 50s to paint Communism as evil. Propoganda.

[Bluerthanblue]

16. Jefferson actually wrote his own version of the

bible-
and i agree with most of what he wrote-

You know what the difference is in my opinion bush USES god to 'get what he wants'-

i was really surprised at how many times JFK's speeches refrence god- very blaitlently- but not as 'offensivly' as this administration.

Nor did Carter's 'faith' set me off either- but i believe it is the difference between heartfelt PERSONAL belief spilling over into public persona, rather than an intentional USING of a 'buzz word' or 'in-road' to garner support that otherwise would be unattinable.

[DistressedAmerican]

4. Tell Him I An One Of The 14 Percent That Doesn't And That I'd

appreciate if he stopped trying to shove HIS God down MY throat.

[ET Awful]

5. Neither reference existed until they were added in response to the

so-called "red scare."

"In God We Trust" wasn't added to paper money until 1957. The pledge did not contain the "god" reference until 1954 and was not contained in the original pledge which was written in 1892.

[yardwork]

6. The U.S. Constitution was designed to protect the minority

The U.S. was NOT founded as a "majority rules" nation. It was founded as a place where minority opinions would be protected.

Those rights protect everyone. Your uncle may believe that because "86% of Americans believe in God," that means that 86% get to run the show. Wrong. The U.S. Constitution says that the 14% who don't believe in God get equal protection. Not that I believe that particular "statistic" anyway.

Anybody can live in a country where the powerful run everything. It's called a dictatorship. In the U.S., we're supposed to be different.

[endarkenment]

12. Not to quibble...

(meaning of course that I am about to quibble) but a dictatorship is rule by one. An oligarchy is rule by a set of elites (which is what we have.)

A pure democracy is a system where 'majority rules' and is not the system that we have. Nominally we have a constitutional republic (corrupted into an oligarchy) which, as you correctly point out, safeguards the rights of minorities regardless of majority opinion.

So the OP can get the rules changed through the constitutional process, which process requires a super majority. As the claim is that 86% of the population will agree to this change, amending the constitution to abolish the 1st amendment should be no problem. Of course the real logical flaw in this rightwing fascist argument for introducing theocracy is that even if 86% of the population 'believes in god' that says nothing at all about the belief of the same population in the abolition of the 1st amendment or the transformation of our secular republic into a fascist theocracy.

[Thtwudbeme]

7. Usually I respond by asking the person if they truly feel good

about having God's name on money. I ask them to consider what God himself would say about that.

As far as the pledge goes....it should read, "One nation, (COMMA) under God,...." NOT "One nation under God" as it so often does in those dumbass emails. God did not divide up the world...nor did he create only white folks.

No point in trying to point out that people's deeply embedded myths might be wrong, OK? Just ask them what God's opinion would be-

Steph

[Snotcicles]

14. Is your faith so shallow you need constant reminding? n/t

[salin]

8. Those who use God to try to obscure

devious political actions - in order to keep our support - are evil. Those politicians whose speech writers place "buzz words" to appeal to the faithful as a means of building political support - but that support is actually for things that are against the interests of the public (sending more jobs out of the country through CAFTA; sending more pork to political donors through the highway bill; passing a medicare reform that expands government - but has provisions that help companies more than recipients in ways such as preventing the govt from bargaining bulk rates from pharmaceutical companies in efforts to contain costs; passing a bankruptcy bill that pushes usury by allowing credit companies to charge more than 34% annual rates for late payments, etc.) those politicians are cynical, and they appear to be using God and Jesus as political marketing (for their agenda). If Jesus was angry at the money changers in the Temple (for using GOD to make money - in a holy place), I can only imagine the rage he would display at the political use of his name - especially when done in the absense of his teachings (that is - the policies pursued by those claiming "God" - often are in direct opposition to the teachings of Christ.)

[baldguy]

9. One of the hallmarks of Christianity is tolerance.

Unfortunately, the people who promote this sort of thing don't subscribe to that idea.

This isn't about promoting the Ten Commandments or faith in God. It's about power - and a small group of fanatics capturing that power and abusing it. The problem with putting the Ten Commandments in a courthouse is that our laws are not based on them. Our laws come from The Constitution. Under the Constitution, all faiths are equal.

If they spent more time trying the follow the Ten Commandments rather than forcing them on people of other faiths, the world would be a much better place.

[DrRang]

10. Maybe ask why . .

Maybe ask why so many extreme Christians want to enshrine an ancient Hebrew document, The Ten Commandments, rather than Christ's central statement on human behavior, The Sermon on the Mount/Beatitudes.

Or ask which denomination gets to write the obligatory prayers.

Or why we are slavishly following propaganda installed during the McCarthy anti-Soviet years, when the Soviet Union no longer exists.

Or whether he objects to your saying "Under Goddess," or "In Goddess We Trust."

Or if Christ was not endorsing separation of church and state with the story about rendering to Caesar that which is Caesar's and to God that which is God'.

And none of this will make any difference because all this bullying has nothing to do with spiritual seeking and everything to do with trying to force your point of view on someone else. Good luck.

[Beaver Tail]

11. LoL He reallt needs to be careful

Take a look at this.. good indepth "talk" about them

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_10co.htm

go to "Analysis of the individual commandments"

Anyhow only 3 of the ten commandments are found in law, they would be 6, 8 and 9. 9 refers to purgery.


1: Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2: Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
3: Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain
4: Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy
5: Honour thy father and thy mother
6: Thou shalt not kill
7: Thou shalt not commit adultery
8: Thou shalt not steal
9: Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour
10: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house

My questions would be
How many children have been arrestd for not "Honour thy father and thy mother".
How many people have gone to jail for adultery?
If I worship a golden calf will I spend time in prison?
Jesus healed people on the sabbath, does this make him a sinner?
Did Jessus break the sabbath when he picked grains to eat?

Speaking as a christian it makes me sick to see people using selective sculpture verses to justify what they do. They are not worshiping god, they are hiding behind the bible.

Edit here

1: The Crusades
2: The Inquisition
3: The Religious Wars of Europe

[Snotcicles]

13. The other 14%

can manage to do right, without being reminded every minute.

[Bluerthanblue]

15. have we ever had a 'pres' who thinks he's Moses?

and who actually said 'god chose him' to lead the nation?

People like this are usually either tripping on acid (one of my ex-bf)
or severely mentally ill.-