Global warming: worse than we thought.

[trof]

There's a thread up in LBN.

It is a scenario climate scientists have feared since first identifying "tipping points" - delicate thresholds where a slight rise in the Earth's temperature can cause a dramatic change in the environment that itself triggers a far greater increase in global temperatures.

A vast expanse of western Siberia is undergoing an unprecedented thaw that could dramatically increase the rate of global warming, climate scientists warn today. Researchers who have recently returned from the region found that an area of permafrost spanning a million square kilometres - the size of France and Germany combined - has started to melt for the first time since it formed 11,000 years ago at the end of the last ice age.

The area, which covers the entire sub-Arctic region of western Siberia, is the world's largest frozen peat bog and scientists fear that as it thaws, it will release billions of tonnes of methane, a greenhouse gas 20 times more potent than carbon dioxide, into the atmosphere.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1546797,00.html

Until I read this I thought there might be time to work our way out of this. Not for my generation, but maybe my daughter's or grandson's.
Now I don't think so.

My grandson is three, and I wonder how different his life will be from mine. A lot, I bet, and not much of it good.
crap

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. My kids HATE when I slather sunblock on them. I apologize and explain

that we grownups broke the sky and that the sun is dangerous now. They are angry about that. If only they could grow up to be the guys who figure out how to fix it.

[90-percent]

5. Character

Think of all the character building gifts we are leaving for the unborn. global warming, massive defecits, world hunger,burger flipping career opportunities, fascism, fighting for a smaller slice of the ever shrinking pie.

They will turn into such good people as they grow up and fix all this or die. They will all be thankful and grateful to their preceding generations and will probably have parades where they throw flowers in the street to thank us.

-85%

[Greybnk48]

2. I just posted this question over in LBN

but will post it here as well. Does anyone know the latitude of the area where the permafrost is thawing in western Siberia?

[JimmyJazz]

3. When I think about what a relatively short time the world has been

"industrialized" compared to the amount of damage that has been done, I just cry. I don't know what, if anything, will be left for our children and grandchildren. :(

[XemaSab]

4. time to get that 900,000

and move well inland before the buyer realizes that what was the coast ain't gonna be the coast much longer.

"I have a piece of seafloor I'd like to sell you..."

[GreenPartyVoter]

6. You ever taken a peek at the earth changes maps of various

psychics? I know, I know.. not grounded in science. But the more I hear about the sea rising the more I wonder where my back-up camp should be!

[XemaSab]

7. I'm not sure

what you're talking about.

Do you have a link?

[GreenPartyVoter]

12. Sure thing. Take all with a grain of salt BUT it's worth thinking about

knowing what we know about melting glaciers.

http://www.greatdreams.com/maps.htm

[XemaSab]

13. Interesting stuff

thanks for the link.

[GreenPartyVoter]

16. Like I said, does make me think about where to go next. Another reason

why I want a tent camper or hard wall pop-up. Great for vacations but also useful if we ever need to set down somewhere else for whatever reason.

[trof]

10. You know it!

Would you believe I just said the same thing to Miz t.?

[trof]

8. More on Siberia from Wikipedia

The West Siberian Plain consists mostly of Cenozoic alluvial deposits and is extraordinarily flat, so much so that a rise of fifty metres in sea level would cause all land between the Arctic Ocean and Novosibirsk to be inundated. Many of the deposits on this plain result from ice dams; having reversed the flow of the Ob and Yenisei Rivers, so redirecting them into the Caspian Sea (perhaps the Aral as well). It is very swampy and soils are mostly peaty Histosols and, in the treeless northern part, Histels. In the south of the plain, where permafrost is largely absent, rich grasslands that are an extension of the Kazakh steppe formed the original vegetation (almost all cleared now).

The Central Siberian Plateau is an extremely ancient craton (sometimes called Angaraland) that formed an independent continent before the Permian (see Siberia (continent)). It is exceptionally rich in minerals, containing large deposits of gold, diamonds, and ores of manganese, lead, zinc, nickel, cobalt and molybdenum. Only the extreme northwest was glaciated during the Quaternary, but almost all is under exceptionally deep permafrost and the only tree that can thrive, despite the warm summers, is the deciduous Siberian Larch (Larix sibirica) with its very shallow roots. Soils here are mainly Turbels, giving way to Spodosols where the active layer becomes thicker and the ice content lower.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia#Geography_and_geology

[XemaSab]

14. If that area gets warmer

the spodosols (peat soils) will begin to decay, and then we're really in trouble. Not only will the whole area collapse, but it will dump out BUCKETS of CO2.

[MsTryska]

19. You know...that area of Siberia is

actually populated by a migrant tribe of reindeer herders. They spend their entire lives on the permafrost.


they are also the genetic ancestors of Native Americans.


pretty interesting huh? I wonder how this will affect their way of life?

[Deep13]

9. Buy a snorkle.

It is not just that the waterlevel will rise, but weather patterns will change and become more violent. Expect crop failures.

Stock up on canned goods. Have lots of vegitables because they are easy to digest and contain water. Have a way to acquire fresh water. Stock up on bullets.

[trof]

11. Wait until the gulf stream disappears, or reverses.

British Isles=deep freeze.

[JAbuchan08]

15. Worse than who thought?

I didn't have any scientific projections of my own but I don't want to be grouped in this "we" with everybody else.

[trof]

18. consider yourself un-grouped

;-)

[Greybnk48]

17. Just a bizarre idea

I just looked up some maps showing global latitude and found that ANWR sits between 60 and 70 degrees N latitude, the same as much of Siberia. There are portions of Siberia that fall farther north (70-80 degrees N) but not much that falls south of this. I understand on an uneducated simplistic level that the jetstream impacts climate as well as location having lived in Ketchikan, Alaska for a couple of years, which was down right balmy compared to Wisconsin were I am now. But it's at least possible that if the permafrost is thawing in Siberia, that the permafrost is not healthy in northern Alaska either.

I have been wondering the past few days if this whole drilling in ANWR thing is a red herring to divert us. And if drilling up there is really possible even with modified equipment given the possibility the the area is now becoming unstable due to global warming. Who would know given the location of the refuge?

As I said, this is an uneducated speculation on my part, but I would not be surprised if the prospect of drilling there is not actually feasible at this time.

[MsTryska]

20. I wonder if there's a way to Harness this methane to make

fuel from it?


isn't that what they're doing with the Methane beds in southern Russia.


I could have sworn that's what the Unocal Trans-afghanistan pipeline project (headed up by Adnan Chalabi before he became head honcho in Afghanistan) was for.