Help with argument: If war was for oil, how come gas prices so high?

[prolesunited]

I need info to counter someone who said the clearly the war was not for oil because we wouldn't be paying so much right now.

I know the general framework, but does anyone have any links regarding control of oil supply, profits, ect. I know it's complicated, but I need to spell it out as clearly and with as much evidence as possible for the simple-minded.

[dogman]

1. It wasn't for oil for the people.

It was for oil for the Bush supporting corporations who are enjoying record profits.

[prolesunited]

5. Do you have any data

or links on the record profits?

[karlrschneider]

11. just googled "oil company profits 2005"

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=oil+company+profits+2005&btnG=Google+Search

[sinkingfeeling]

2. LOL!! Because the idiots blew it! They didn't expect an Iraqi

resistance, didn't expect them to 'object' to selling off their national oil companies to foreign interests, and didn't expect people to keep blowing up the pipe lines. They can't believe that there is a 'reaction' to their illegal, immoral action of invasion.

[prolesunited]

6. Do you know what companies

were involved? Any links to articles about these plans?

[sinkingfeeling]

22. Here's a summary of Iraqi's Oil Industry....

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/iraq.html

And here: http://www.fpif.org/iraq/occupation/0309oilrev_body.html

And here: http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=11936

[karlrschneider]

3. Iraq is only exporting a small fraction of what it did before we invaded

and "we" aren't getting any of it. Hell, they are IMporting gasoline!

[prolesunited]

9. Where did you learn about this?

Any numbers?

[karlrschneider]

13. Here's one

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=2&url=http%3A//www.detnews.com/2003/politics/0310/16/politics-299588.htm&ei=P8n7QrKUGcOMiAGus9xM

[htuttle]

4. Because the Bush administration aren't just imperialists...

...they are incompetent imperialists.

They had no plan to deal with any contingencies outside of their rosey projections and they fucked up, plain and simple.

[rainy]

7. Because things do not always turn out as you plan

They were suppose to have handed over the oil production to private american companies, pay for the war plus rebuild Iraq with the oil proceeds. However, they didn't know the fields were in such bad shape and they can not control the production because of the insurgency.

[fob]

8. Does "Oil Company Profits at Record Highs" clear things up any?

The war was for OIL, commodities go UP in price/cost during wartime so it's a self-fulfilling profit orgasm for Big Oil. If the emphasis was to be on cheaper oil, then PEACE is the word your friend needs to understand.

Find your simple-minded friend and Econ 101 book from any nearby college. Oh and a Social Studies and History book may also prove beneficial.

I wish you success, your S-M friend, and our, lives depend on it!

[McCamy Taylor]

10. War was for OIL FUTURES.

[NewInNewJ.]

12. Bush will let the American People

suffer from higher prices and after a while he can justify invading Iraq and bringing the oil on!

[Yellow_Dog]

14. Because we are loosing the damn war

because of utter incompetence on the part of Commander Cuckoo Bananas and the rest of the 43rd Reich. This jerk has so many dead and misfiring brain cells I'm surprised he can walk and maintain control of his bladder and bowels at the same time.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

15. 43rd reich

i likey.

Welcome.

[Tactical Progressive]

16. It wasn't for oil for YOU!

It was for oil for THEM.

Does this person not understand that Republicans don't care at all about anybody but themselves? Not poor Americans, not middle-class Americans, not Iraqi peasants, not Afghani schoolchildren, not people who didn't vote for them, not people who did vote for them.

Republicans and their oil-company sponsors are thrilled at the price of oil. They got America to go get them oil contracts for free - well, for them free, just military action paid for out of public coffers, which they get too, and blood, for which they get to paint you as unpatriotic - and now they've got the high-priced oil on top of that.

Tell the person you're arguing with that facts are only helpful when you know what's going on, and he doesn't have a clue.

[Dave Reynolds]

17. One thing that I have not checked out, but have heard

is that all the fuel being used by our forces in Afghanistan and Iraq is not coming from Iraq or our strategic reserves, but from the oil that would normally be coming to us.

We are in competition with the military, IOW.

[Stirk]

18. The Iraq invasion was about *controlling* the oil supply, not just

seizing it and selling it.

Besides, the beneficiaries are US oil companies, not US citizens.

[Cocoa]

19. put "oil profits" into Google news

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=oil+profits

first headline, "as gas prices rise, so do big oil profits" and hundreds of other articles.

[The_Casual_Observer]

20. The monkey tries to get a banana out of a bottle

He reaches in, grabs the banana but can't get his fist and the banana out at the same time, so the banana stays in the bottle.

[lectrobyte]

21. Oil industry awash in record levels of cash

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8646744/

When major oil companies report their quarterly profits next week, they're once again expected to post record numbers. With crude trading around $60 a barrel, the oil industry is enjoying one of the biggest windfalls in its history.

[bvar22]

23. Does anybody REALLY KNOW...

Does anybody REALLY KNOW how much OIL is being exported from Iraq?

Are there oversight agencies in place that are actually counting the barrels?

Are documented reports being made available to the public?

Who would profit from bogus reports of "no significant exports"?

Before the Invasion & Occupation of Iraq, the Iraqi Oil Profits were pledged to "Pay for the WAR"! has anyone seen a plan submitted ny the Bush* administration to refund the American Taxpayer?

[lectrobyte]

24. If you start asking yourself, "Who profits?", then every move the

* administration makes suddenly seems much more transparent.

[LSK]

25. this should shut them up really quick

It is obscene that Lee Raymond has been allowed to take ExxonMobil for about $600 million over 12 years.
And it raises the question of what Boston-based fund managers, who control the purse strings, plan to do to stop this legalized looting of American private investors.
As we reported last week, Raymond, 67, will retire this year as Exxon chairman and CEO with around $520 million in shares, options and a pension fund, at least $45 million more in past option profits, and tens of millions on top of that in salary and other goodies.
It works out to about $47 million a year since 1993.


http://business.bostonherald.com/businessNews/view.bg?articleid=97212

[Spider Jerusalem]

26. Well...that's wrong, but it's nothing to do with control of supply/profits

It's about locking up access to large reserves of a dwindling resource. The reason for record high oil prices has nothing to do with gouging; demand is steadily increasing (currently at +/- 84.1 million barrels, of which approx. 25% is used by the US, who constitute 5% of global population). Supply has essentially flattened, though (OPEC has almost no spare capacity). So now the oil market is driven by demand; major producers can't bring massive new supplies online to stabilise price spikes. And so you get $60-65/bbl. oil.

And it's only going to get worse; it would probably help if Americans could learn to conserve, but as it is, considering the figures I gave for world production and US consumption, and the fact that there's a limited amount available, anyucomplaint on the part of Americans over this issue sounds like shortsighted, greedy whining (particularly when one considers that oil prices in the US are STILL lower than anywhere in the world except for Persian Gulf oil states).

[noiretextatique]

27. here's a study from the consumer federation of america

http://www.consumerfed.org/pdfs/oilprofits.pdf

from the executive summary:
RECORD HIGH PRICES; RECORD HIGH PROFITS
CONCENTRATION AND MARKET POWER AFTER A WAVE OF MERGERS
THE FAILURE OF PUBLIC POLICY
CHANGING DIRECTION IN PUBLIC POLICY

I found this quote from the concentration section most interesting:

"With increasing concentration, long-term strategic decisions by the industry to tighten production capacity interacted with short-term (mis)management of stocks to create a tight supply situation that provides ample opportunities to push prices up quickly."

[prolesunited]

28. Thanks!

Some of this is very helpful.

Anyone else have any links/ideas to add?

[JanMichael]

29. Look at oil company profits. That's enough.

They're making a "killing" for lack of a more tasteful word.

THAT makes it a "War for oil company profits"..."Their Oil" not "Our" oil.

[Cleita]

30. It's been reported on various programs on AAR that

the oil companies are so flush with profits that they have no idea what to do with all the money, except give it away to worthy causes, I presume.

[Disturbed]

31. Goals met.

Bush Regime Iraq Successes

1. Saddam will no longer sell Iraqi oil via the Euro.

2, A military foothold in the ME. Other than Saudi Arabia.

3, No countries will be able to buy Iraqi oil that the U.S. disapproves of.

4. The Multi-Intl. Oil Corps are reaping great profits, esp. Bush Junta fave ally Saudi Dicktatorshit.

[prolesunited]

32. That's an excellent list

Thanks. I'm going to have tons of ammunition. :-)

[NoPasaran]

33. We're losing the war

Every aspect of it is a disaster.

[Doo_Revolution]

34. Oh, that's simple......

America expected to get more Oil than it actually did.

Out of the deal with Israel, we were supposed to get around 60%. Because of peak oil, we instead get around 40%.

The oil foundaries Halliburton is protecting, are for Ariel Sharon.

If the Mossad CIA wanted, they would simply wipe out all the arabs and level Iraq. Our "alleigance" to them is the one thing stopping the zionist crusaders. "Nation building" is a joke...

We helped Sharon's zionists by installing a puppet dictator, Ahmad Chalabi who intends to enslave the whole country. The Middle East is meant to pay fealty to its rulers, that of Israel & Pakistan.