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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:02 PM
Original message
Poll question: A poll for DU males under the age of 35 (or is it 42 now?).
Please only vote in this poll if you are a male under the age of 35 or 42 or whatever the new maximum age is to join the military. If you were drafted before 1973, I'd really like to hear your comments on the draft. Of course, I'm interested in everyone's opinion, but this poll is not about whether the draft is a good idea or a bad idea...

If the draft were put in place tomorrow, and you (males of military age) had a low number, what would you do?
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SeanQuinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Either get C.O. status, enlist in USAF, or go to jail.
I'm a pacifist but if I am asked to enlist ina branch of military, I'd not want to be drafted. I'd enlist in the USAF because I like aviation.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I would probably enlist in the Navy.
However, I would see if there was some way I could put it off for 2 years so I could graduate college and become an officer. If the option is to be enlisted for 2 years or be an officer for 4, I'd probably pick being an officer.
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tk2kewl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. i suspect a draft wouldn't come until after an invasion of Iran
and if there were another invasion I'd leave for Europe because I would be too ashamed to be an american.
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katsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. AHEM...
Do you really believe women would be exempt from a draft?

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frictionlessO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. A very good point!
Thanks for reminding that the world has changed a bit.
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frictionlessO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I'd get CO status I've been a devout pacifist for a long time (15 yrs)
have online postings and friends and family to prove it. It is part of my spiritual path as well and I have objected to this war since 9/11 (wasn't sure until then that lil boots was gonna invade Iraq) and some high ranking military folks know it.

Though in my darker hours I sometimes wonder if I wouldn't go through some false sense of being able to help and protect the younger ones...
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PatriotGames Donating Member (896 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. Enlist before I got drafted. Join the AF. Happened to my dad during Nam.
Left for boot camp in the AF and two days later his draft card came.
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Strawman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Same thing happened to my dad
He ended up in Germany instead of Vietnam.
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PatriotGames Donating Member (896 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:24 PM
Original message
My Pop ended up as a Chinese linguist.
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Incitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. hmmm
C.O. If that fails, I'd stay in the US. I know a few people who own large amounts of land. If I get caught, jail. If all else fails, I would slit own throat before I murder people for *.
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Rob H. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
7. I picked "Other"
I'd try to get conscientious objector status, but failing that I'm not sure what I'd do--leave the country, maybe. I dunno.

I'd also watch the heads of those friends of mine who support the Iraq war explode. I have one right-wing friend (he says he's a Libertarian, but he's deep in denial) who thinks we should just cut to the chase and lay waste to the entire Middle East--his cranial detonation would be especially fun to watch. ("Holy shit! A draft?! No way I'm gonna go! Wa-a-a-ah-h!")
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olacan Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
8. Well past
Edited on Thu Aug-11-05 09:20 PM by olacan
the ages you were asking about but here is my opinion. I spent just over 23 years in the Air Force (1962 > 1985) I had a great career. I think every American should serve about two years in some type of service. It does not need to be the military but we should give something back. I have a very good friend that spent a couple of years working in an inner city because he was a conscientious objector. I also think it would be good if people would live in another county for at least a year. We have our problems/differences but I still would rather live here than any place else.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. I echo your sentiment.
Indeed we have our problems, but so do all countries. Honestly, I can't think of any country I'd like to live in more.
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Ptah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
10. Just what I did in 1970
Enlist in the USAF.

P.S. My number was between 25 and 30; i.e. I would have been
drafted quickly.

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TimeChaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
13. First of all
Even though I'm a women, I don't think that'd get me out of the draft this time around.

I'd smuggle my boyfriend into Canada, since I doubt they'd give him CO status, since he considered joining the Marines before he realized this war was BS. Then I'd complete my education before joining him in Canada.
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Placebo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
14. Tell them I am OVER THE RAINBOW FLAMING GAY!
And that if they draft me I'm going to get the shit kicked out of me and/or be too tempted to orally pleasure all of those hot manly man studs in the trenches, thus being unable to focus on combat.

Might as well show up to the draft board in a dress too. Ya know. For added flavor.

(I am gay, but not that obvious, but I could definitely play it up for the right reasons...I'd consider this a right reason...)
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pointblank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. I think that a lot of guys would turn 'gay'
What do you think?
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Placebo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. I certainly hope so!
In more ways than one. :9

:dunce:

But yes, I imagine they would.
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lotus Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
31. Won't work
Sorry but being gay won't work anymore. You'll still serve. Suddenly the "don't ask don't tell" policy doesn't seem like such a great idea anymore.

I tried to vote "leave the country" but I just registered so it wouldn't let me. Philippines for me! Beautiful country.

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Placebo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. Welcome to DU!
:hi:
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lotus Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Thanks!

:)

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don954 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
15. have boat, will travel..
I think I will do that circumnavigation that I always wanted to do on my sail boat..
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mixedview Donating Member (206 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
16. other - fight it out in the Supreme Court - women should be drafted also
I shouldn't have to go fight wars simply because of my gender.

I would fight it out until they jailed me - I wouldn't run to Canada either.
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antigone382 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
34. Women WILL be drafted also.
I'll bet money on it...assuming they have casinos in Canada.
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
17. Well, due to my medication, it doesn't look like I'll be recruited
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TimeChaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Whew...
Thanks for bringing that up. That would probaby disqualify my boyfriend as well. I can sleep easier now.
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wli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
18. major medical conditions, so I'm ineligible for drafting anyway
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Jamison Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Me too
I'm 5'8" and weigh 270, they're not going to want me.
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Geoff R. Casavant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
21. Actually, I'm Selected Reserve right now
I expect they'll call me before there's a draft.

Then again, maybe not -- do you think they want MORE Navy lawyers in this war?
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volitionx Donating Member (86 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
22. Ok, here's my take...AND YOU PROBABLY WON'T AGREE...
First of all, I'm generally ANTI-MILITARY.

I believe that countries should have a very NEUTRAL foreign policy, like Switzerland, unless they're DIRECTLY attacked, WITHIN THEIR OWN COUNTRY.

The U.N. should take care of ALL conflicts between nations. My uncle was a high-ranking official in the U.N., in Geneva, and although he disses the U.N. constantly, I still believe in its mission.

I feel very ambivalent about "supporting the troops". That is, I sure as HELL don't support their mission in Iraq, but I don't want them to die. But I don't want them to kill, either. People love to place different values on people's lives, based on their nationality and skin color. That's disgusting. What's the current exchange rate of human life? Does one U.S. soldier = 100 Iraqi civilians? Is one U.S. soldier worth more than a U.S. civilian? If so, why? Is one American worth 100 Frenchmen? If so, why?

The Iraq war is ILLEGAL, and hence anyone who participates in it is a WAR CRIMINAL. No, that's not my opinion, that's a logical FACT. I'm sure that some DU-ers out there hate that notion and totally disagree with me, but think it through.

If you assist in an illegal enterprise, you're culpable. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, as they say.

SO, I feel more sorry for innocent civilians in Iraq than I do for U.S. soldiers. They CHOSE to go, even if it would mean going AWOL not to go. They used their free will to decide to go. They knew they might die in combat, and that it's part of the risk of being a soldier. Civilians who die in war have little or no choice. Soldiers DO, because contrary to common opinion, they don't have to go.

I find it pretty interesting how quickly pacifists are willing to overlook the fact that EVERY soldier in Iraq IS COMPLICIT in the Iraq war crime.

It's hard to accept for many people, but it's a logical fact.

I have NO PROBLEM with soldiers going AWOL to Canada or staying here and taking their chances. THAT'S THE MORAL THING TO DO. I fully support soldiers who oppose the war.

Going to Iraq is aiding and abetting an illegal war, illegal occupation, corporate fascism, and a Global Corporate Empire, and greatly increases the suffering in the world.

Saying "I'm just doing my job" is about as brilliant as a German soldier saying "It's just my job to put Jews in the boxcars and showers." What's the difference? As Jean Paul Sartre says, that's an act of "bad faith". YOU MUST BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS. Isn't that what we all want from Bush and the neocons?--Accountability?

Participating in an unjust war can only be UNJUST.

Therefore, it's wrong to go to Iraq, even if you're Casey Sheehan. The RIGHT thing to do is NOT to go.

Now, that doesn't mean whatsoever that I'm happy that American soldiers are dying. The whole war, like all wars, IS A TRAGEDY, but it didn't have to happen, just like all other wars didn't have to happen.

Waging war should be one of the biggest taboos on earth.

I believe in self-defense, and this war is NOT self-defense. It's imperialism, and that's obvious.

I was getting ready to be a conscientious objector during the first Gulf War (I was 21), and I was scared shitless. Who knew it'd only last 3 days (Desert Storm, that is). I thought it'd be something a lot more like THIS occupation of Iraq.

I'm 34 now, and if the draft were reinstated and I got drafted, I'd leave the country. Fuck the military. Hardly any of the wars fought by this country had anything to do with actually protecting this country. And why would I kill or die for a fascist regime? Nope. It ain't gonna happen.

Imagine this scenario: A soldier comes back from Iraq and tells you a bunch of stories about atrocities he engaged in. Are you seriously going to think "oh, by the way, I SUPPORT YOU."? Seriously? I support many people way before I support that soldier. For example, how about supporting the women of Iraq, who are going to lose many of their rights under the new constitution they're trying to write? I'd support them first.

What does "support" mean, anyway? Of course I want to bring the troops home now, but that's about the limit of my support for them. I don't want to make them feel good about what they're doing, and I'm not going to blow smoke up their asses about it. This country is going BANKRUPT over this corporate war. That affects all of us.

I have a cousin in the Air Force who's about to do his second tour in Iraq, working inside the bases on computer crap. I don't support him being in the military, and I don't support him going to Iraq. He said it was "fun" the last time. He barely left the base for 3 months.

And another thing...patriotism is WRONG. We should foster a new ethos, a new paradigm of global citizenry, beyond borders and flags and all of that crap. Sure, it's seems like a dream, but if we don't do it, we'll just get more of the same. If you need something to "believe in", why don't you believe in the vision of a united planet instead of the WRONG notion that the "U.S. is number one"?

Yeah, the U.S. has the highest infant mortality of any industrialized nation. It also uses more resources per capita than any country on earth. And it's the biggest emitter of greenhouse gases. And it has the biggest military budget on earth. It's "number one" in those and many other ignominious measures.

Patriotism, the love of country, is idiotic. It was an ACCIDENT that we were born here. Were I born in Sweden, should I then be a Swedish patriot? It's totally ARBITRARY. Beliefs such as patriotism create divisions, which create wars. We have to get beyond that shit. It's infantile and based on insecurity.

When you say "I'm a patriot", what the hell does that _mean_? You love your country? DEFINE COUNTRY! Is your country the laws of the land, or your political system, or your heritage, or your culture, or the people, or the land, or the accomplishments of its people?

Most so-called "patriots" in this country hate 90% of their fellow Americans, disrespect the land, belong to a subculture and hate the rest, don't even know the actual heritage of America, and foster hatred of other countries. Furthermore, many American "patriots" don't even believe in the "democracy" they claim to support.

SEE BEYOND YOUR CONDITIONING...GET BEYOND THAT LIMITED THINKING...

ONE PEOPLE, ONE PLANET.

It's a hippy saying, but it's the only thing that'll save us.

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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #22
33. Bravo!
I am in complete agreement.
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
24. Jail.
Most of my heroes were prisoners of conscience at one time or another anyway. Then I would get to come back and stick it to those responsible for putting me there in the first place. Gotta keep the faith.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. Hi Autonomy!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Thanks!
Glad to be here. Not sure why I didn't join up years ago.

:hi:
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pointblank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
26. I chose other
Cause I'd just get a poor person to fight in my 'stead.


No, seriously, I don't know what I would do...I hope i don't have to make that decision. I am married to a woman, so I don't think I could convince them that I was gay....Shit, maybe I would just go......?
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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
28. i'd volunteer as a medical corpsman eom
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antigone382 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
32. Umm, if there's a new draft, women will go too.
A 21-year-old female (like me) is probably a lot more likely to get drafted than a 42-year-old male.

I think you should allow women of draft age to participate in this poll as well.
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lotus Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. Especially if you had some needed skill...
like in the medical field.

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Sgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
35. I would be 4F
not even eligible to be drafted in WWII. I essentially have no knees (5 major surgeries on both knees, over 50% of my kneecaps are gone, at age 30).

If it weren't fot that, I would volunteer to go through OCS and into the medical corp of one of the services.
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insanity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
39. I have a medical deferment
I only have one kidney and I also have a broken back, so I get a medical pass, however if it came down to it I would sign up for USCG or USAF before they could draft me.
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
40. My son is 20. I'd send him to Canada or some other
country where we have relatives.

I've already paid his ticket; a price high enough to pay for two generations. They're not taking him.

Redstone
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carpetbagger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
41. I'd get one of those sweet Iraq contract jobs.
Make 10 times the money, and always get my TP from The Man
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