Myers: release of photos would cause violence

[Cocoa]

we can't have that now, can we?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/12/politics/12photos.html?pagewanted=print

Senior Pentagon officials have opposed the release of photographs and videotapes of the abuse of detainees at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, arguing that they would incite public opinion in the Muslim world and put the lives of American soldiers and officials at risk, according to documents unsealed in federal court in New York.

Gen. Richard B. Myers, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said in a statement put forth to support the Pentagon's case that he believed that "riots, violence and attacks by insurgents will result" if the images were released.

The papers were filed in Federal District Court in Manhattan in an ongoing lawsuit by the American Civil Liberties Union to obtain under the Freedom of Information Act the release of 87 photos and four videotapes taken at Abu Ghraib. The photos were among those turned over to Army investigators last year by Specialist Joseph M. Darby, a reservist who was posted at Abu Ghraib.

The documents reveal both the high level and the determination of the Pentagon officials engaged in the effort to block disclosure of the images, and their alarm at the prospect that the photos might become public.

more...

[darkism]

1. Maybe they should've thought about the world reaction...

...BEFORE THEY ORDERED THE DAMN TORTURE.

[JDPriestly]

2. Ditto.

[saigon68]

86. Myers is a MURDERER and a WAR CRIMINAL

He is SCUM

[Kber]

97. Ditto ditto

[Dawgs]

103. Right on...

It's not the photos that would bring on more violence, it's the goddam torture itself.

[GreenPartyVoter]

108. Except that they shouldn't have done the torture just on

principle, never mind about the political fallout!

[tavalon]

119. No, no, no

the problem wasn't that the torture occurred, it was that some traitors took pictures. Ban the cameras, solve the problem. :eyes:

These neocon creatures who pretend to be humans are beyond appalling.

[Fovea]

3. I believe that not exposing and punishing wrongdoing

is far more likely to result in blowback of greater severity and durance than taking steps now to deal with these violations of international law and treaty.

[Erika]

4. What BS. Why shouldn't we see all photos?

What are they hiding?

[MADem]

111. I think there are some egregious VIDEOS

...in addition to photos. Rape of a child is said to be one of them.

I have no personal knowledge of this, it is just one of those things that is in the rumor mill.

[wtmusic]

5. Why would it result in violence, General?

Is there something in the videos that might make people mad? Let's all have a lookie and see what might make people so angry...

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Sodomizing kids

for starters, but you knew that

[madeline_con]

25. They're afraid of violence here, too.

The jig is up on these freaks, and they're a few pics short of being torn limb from limb by an angry mob. :mad:

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. yep,. and many of us will lead the charge

but I will give them a beneift they did not give these victims... a trial

[madeline_con]

39. Remember Cousescu (sp)?

He and the wife were just shot and thrown in the street...

But I'm not encouraging or condoning violence against the Shrub....

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. Oh I have considered that scenario plenty of times

trust me I have... but the Murican people are NOt hungry or cold enough YET

[madeline_con]

60. That's an excellent point....

people would have to get "uncomfortable" and that would take some doing. We're fat and spoiled, and I'm afraid it will be our downfall. Like Rome. :(

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. Nah we are getting more and more

restless, which means the misery index is rising. This has been a fairly hot summer, which means teh people are stirring, but not to the point of going the Caucescu route, YET

[DistressedAmerican]

102. Merry Christman Nikoli!

[Stand and Fight]

113. Ceausescu, Nicolae n/t

[The Magistrate]

6. The General Should Have Thought Of That, Sir

Before allowing and encouraging the behaviors that were photographed in the first place. He does not have a leg to stand on in this matter. his statement is tantamount to someone protesting that complying with a subpenea to turn over records would result in his conviction of the crime he recorded in them....

[TahitiNut]

19. Yes, the evidence always prejudices the jury.

:eyes: Chutzpah has hit a new high.

[The Magistrate]

57. An Excellent Turn Of Phrase, Sir!

[bobbieinok]

76. reminds me of a little moron joke.....what did the little moron say

in his defence at his trial for the murder of his parents???

that the court should be lenient b/c he was an orphan

[jobycom]

7. Invading innocent nations caused violence, too. They didn't protest

against that, though. May they burn forever in the hell they believe in.

[Cleita]

8. I don't want to see or hear the videos.

However, they should be made public for those who have the stomach to witness them. These atrocities were done in the name of the American people and with their money and their military. The American people need to demand that they are made public.

It is then we might be able to indict this administration for committing atrocities and war crimes in our name. We must demand that they are made public.

[Cocoa]

10. Scott McClellan responds to Myers

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/07/20050712-4.html

Terrorists have been carrying out attacks for years -- for a couple of decades at least. I mean, if you go back and look at the attack on the Marine barracks on Beirut; you can go back and look at the first attack on the World Trade Center; certainly the attacks on September 11th. Terrorists don't need an excuse, and there certainly is no justification for the taking and murder of innocent human life. They have no regard for human life. This is a battle of -- hang on -- this is a battle of ideologies. This is a struggle of ideologies. The President recognizes that this is not a limited war on terror, this is not just related to Afghanistan and the Taliban; this is about an ideological struggle, and that's the kind of battle that we are waging. But there's a lot history of attacks by terrorists that pre-date anything that occurred in Iraq. So that's just a misunderstanding of the nature of the enemy that we face in this war on terrorism.

[smoogatz]

109. Good call on the Bushco bullshit, Cocoa

As usual, they're trying to have it both ways. On the one hand, nothing we or our allies have done has in any way been a causal factor in the terrorist attacks against us. On the othe rhand, releasing photos of things we and our allies have done WILL cause terroist attacks against us. Which is it?

[Rex]

11. So unholy acts of barbarism are now covered up

with the hollow cry of national security? :eyes:

[MADem]

112. Par for the course

This is not the first time we have done very bad things. But it's those doggone internets that are interfering with our gubmint's ability to paper over the bad spots!

During Vietnam, it was a pain in the ass to get pictures, still or moving, because the equipment was heavier and not everyone had a camera or super-8 movie camera and film. Nowadays, everyone has little cellphones that take pics and video, and there are all sorts of tiny gadgets that can record events for posterity. And they can be sent round the world with a click...

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. yep especially against Richard Myers

(he does have a point, but this is a screen)

he is afraid that the outrage will lead to him being sent to a nice little place called the hague... yep will lead to violence, against him and the rest of the gang

[Theduckno2]

53. Yes, it may be that self preservation is the prime motivator.

It seems likely that the Middle East would see an increase in violence should that evidence of attrocities be made public. I'm just concerned that increase in violence would provide an excuse to increase the size of US military forces in Iraq/Afghanistan and increase the duration of the occupation.

That being said I think the material should be released as quickly as possible and any pretext of a military solution to the conflict in Iraq be ended.

As for Bush, Cheney, Rummy, etal, send them to the Hague!

[guruoo]

120. Maybe not. I seem to recall something Myers said

that indicated that he wasn't completely 'on board'
with the administration's handling of the war.
But for the life of me I can't remember the specifics.

[Cocoa]

13. Condi Rice responds to Myers

http://adbusters.org/blogs/The_Excuse_Makers_Condoleezza_Rice.html

“When are we going to stop making excuses for the terrorists and saying that somebody is making them do it? No, these are simply evil people who want to kill. And they want to kill in the name of a perverted ideology that really is not Islam, but they somehow want to claim that mantle to say that this is about some kind of grievance. This isn't about some kind of grievance. This is an effort to destroy, rather than to build. And until everybody in the world calls it by name — the evil that it is — stops making excuses for them, then I think we're going to have a problem.“

[madeline_con]

29. Condi and McLellan are grasping....

"these guys are evil. What we did is justified, but you can't see it."

[evilqueen]

31. Let me translate that into Truth...

Condi Original : “When are we going to stop making excuses for the terrorists and saying that somebody is making them do it? No, these are simply evil people who want to kill. And they want to kill in the name of a perverted ideology that really is not Islam, but they somehow want to claim that mantle to say that this is about some kind of grievance. This isn't about some kind of grievance. This is an effort to destroy, rather than to build. And until everybody in the world calls it by name — the evil that it is — stops making excuses for them, then I think we're going to have a problem.“

Condi Translated : “When are we going to stop making excuses for the Bush administration and saying that somebody, like PNAC, is making them do it? No, these are simply evil people who want to kill. And they want to kill in the name of a perverted ideology that really is not Christian, but they somehow want to claim that mantle to say that this is about 9/11. This isn't about 9/11. This is an effort to destroy, rather than to build. And until everybody in the world calls it by name — the evil that it is — stops making excuses for them, then I think we're going to have a problem.“

And indeed, we do have a problem, Houston.

[demgurl]

49. Do you know that phrase could be applied...

to the US? At least by some countries it could. That is spooky.

demgurl

[countmyvote4real]

14. And the world will be really piss-off, too. n/t

[lonestarnot]

15. Well I'm already pissed off! But I'm not violent.

[madeline_con]

30. I could be....

I'm sure they WH is very afraid of the rage brewing just beneath the surface in America and the world right now.

[BikeWriter]

40. Me, too.

[madeline_con]

43. There's a pic on my site....

of a little guy in barbed wire with his Dad.

I just keep seeing him being abused, you know. I am SO mad when this subject comes up. That little guy looks like my oldest.

[lonestarnot]

47. Violence begets violence

[BikeWriter]

58. What is that biblical saying?

The meek will be ground into the earth?

[lonestarnot]

61. no shall inherit the earth, blessed is the peacekeeper for he shall

inherit the earth.

[lonestarnot]

54. madeline_con... why didn't you post link to your site, I am not familiar

with it.

[BikeWriter]

56. This little Doll captured my heart. She was gut shot and killed in Iraq...

by a British troop supposedly "firing warning shots in the air."
She was Hanan Saleh Matrud. I have vowed she will not be forgotten.





http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=3478

The report, titled "Iraq: Killings of Civilians in Basra and Al-Amara," also criticized UK authorities for failing to conduct investigations into the killings of civilians, citing the case of the death of 8-year-old Hanan Saleh Matrud last August near Basra as an example.

Saleh stood with other children about 70 meters from a British armored vehicle that stopped near the entrance of the alley which leads to her home.

According to eyewitness Mizher Jaber Yassin, a soldier aimed and fired a shot which hit Hanan in her lower torso. She died the following day.

[lonestarnot]

63. OMG... such loss in this evil world.

[BikeWriter]

65. I cry every time I see her sweet face. I can only imagine...

the grief her Family must feel!

[lonestarnot]

66. Or all the other families who have lost their children for lies. It's

so cruel and unjust and disturbing. Keeps me awake night after night.

[BikeWriter]

68. Yes, it is...

This stupid war has accentuated the PTSD that festered in me for years. I asked my fellow vets in my VA therapy group Wednesday and all of them have been deeply affected by it, too.

[lonestarnot]

70. Hope GT helps you... boards help me, boards and friends.

[BikeWriter]

73. I'm here in retreat...

from my own forum, my best Friends, and my Family. I get anti-social sometimes and I can't face them.

[lonestarnot]

74. Yes, I know that feeling. I can't let myself stay that way very long as I

have a youngster. We are going to get up in a couple of hours and watch the meteor shower.

[BikeWriter]

83. This criminal activity...

is finally being exposed. We can only hope it ends soon enough to save America and our world.

[Greeby]

16. Its total bullshit

The muslim world knows about all this, they don't necessarily need the videos and pictures. Like the old saying goes "What, you want me to draw you a picture?"

[alarcojon]

17. Just what was done in our name?

We deserve to know. The world deserves to know.

[Cocoa]

18. President Bush responds to Myers

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/bush/articles/2004/08/06/bush_defends_terror_threat_alert/


Anti-American forces were training in the 1990s, Bush said. "They don't need an excuse for their hatred, and it is wrong to blame America for the anger and evil of the killers."

[madeline_con]

32. So, any violence has nothing to do with sodomizing Iraqi kids...

it's because they "hate our freedom."

:puke: on that s.o.b. rat who calls himself president!!! :mad: :nuke:

[Booster]

20. It's not the insurgents in another country that scares him, it's the

people in our own country and will be appalled and turn on them when they see these pictures. I think the rest of the world probably knows more about the contents in these pictures than the American people, and we need to see them; to see what we've become under this evil administration. I don't really want to look at them either, but to save our souls we need to.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Bingo

the stage is set for something nasty

[wtmusic]

24. They're more afraid of war crimes charges

If the videos are as clear and compelling as rumor has it, there is a wonderful chance Rummy and others could be prosecuted under the 1996 War Crimes Act and even be sentenced to death.

It has taken on the tone of desperate self-preservation.

[Booster]

26. But how do you fight a criminal who supresses evidence like

these people do? Do we have to wait until a whistleblower leaks them, even though everyone in Congress has seen them? This is what I don't understand; it's not like they haven't been seen.

[wtmusic]

35. The ACLU is doing a hell of a job

and they are fighting truly desperate, insane people. People who do not want the truth to be told, who are devoid of honor.

To anyone with a sense of civility that is sickening. It might take some time, but this story and all the evidence that goes along with it will come out.

[madeline_con]

33. Let's hope for a Pentagon insider who can "leak" them!

:patriot:

[thebigidea]

37. or hammer the Washington Post for keeping them for Woodward's personal use

they have them, and i'm surprised more pressure isn't being applied to them. The Pentagon can stall for ages, but what about the WP?

[madeline_con]

44. The F-ING POST has them??!!

What are they waiting for?

[Warren DeMontague]

122. You have a link on this info?

I'm pretty surprised, myself, that if there are add'l copies floating around (and I'd imagine there are, otherwise the government probably would have had an "accident" with theirs) no one has leaked them as of yet.

[thebigidea]

124. search the WaPo, the editor did a Q&A when the photos broke

he explains why they won't publish hundreds more, and talked of making a "representative selection."

oh, how sweet. a tasteful selection of torture!

so every time you read them talking about torture, or editorials poo-pooing the coverup, remember they are participating.

[Warren DeMontague]

125. The WaPo aint what it used to be, that's for sure.

But then, neither is most of the "adversarial" press in this country.

[MADem]

115. Who knows what Myers will say once he is "got gone?"

Myers COULD HAVE qualified for a follow-on tour as Chairman, JCS. In "time of war" the term limits are off. Yet chumpy picked Pete Pace to relieve him. At the announcement ceremony, Myers looked like he wanted to break down and sob. Pace looked a bit tense.

You have to wonder if once Myers is out of there, they will blame it all on him--classic Rove smear. I certainly hope he copied all his files, stashed them in an undisclosed location, and kept his friends close/enemies closer. It would not surprise me if the word goes out the day after his retirement that he was the biggest fuckup since Custer...

Oh, to be a fly on the wall....

[FreedomAngel82]

21. And there isn't already violence???

[madeline_con]

34. Every Iraqi citizen would take up arms against the troops...

if the pics got out.

[bobbieinok]

79. after 1st issue of pics, there were many reports that people in Iraq

had known for some time what US was doing to the prisoners

the only ones surprised were the Americans

[wtmusic]

110. that's pretty much happening already

and what does hiding them accomplish, except show that we're:

1) dishonest
2) afraid to deal with our own problems

This PR, "sanitize the truth" tack only adds to our biggest problem over there:

trust.

[charlie]

22. Looks like we aren't any better

at "winning hearts and minds" than the last time around. Every passing day freshly compounds our reputation as the biggest dumbasses on the planet.

[madeline_con]

36. We've been hijacked....

the world knows that DUH-bya's ratings are plummeting.

HE looks like the dumbass, not us.

[jsamuel]

27. the exposure of a crime doesn't cause conviction,but the crime itself does

in other words:
"Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time."

[jsamuel]

28. "Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time."

[brettdale]

41. August 15th?

So If the judge rules in favor of the ACLU on the 15th, do the photos get released straight away, or am I wrong on this?

[Warren DeMontague]

77. Not sure. The government has been playing games for 2 years with this

they made noises like they were going to release them, asked for an "extension" to make the faces in the images and videos not recongizable... then at the last minute, in what I can only guess is a pretty unusual move, they filed for this 11th hour 7(F) exemption to the FOIA (when previous exemptions had already been claimed and rejected) using, among other things, the bogus Newsweek Koran "incident" as justification. And not only did they file this last minute thing, they insisted upon keeping most of that hidden from the public, as well.

The judge can't be- CAN'T be- terribly enamored with the DoD's behavior in this case. Is Monday the last day? Who knows. But it will be very interesting to see what happens.

[Jose Diablo]

85. Nope, then the appeals restart, it's a stalling game n/t

[brettdale]

87. so they appeal if the Judge rules in favour of the aclu?

So its delayed again, but there has to come a time, when a final decision is made, six months? a year?

[Warren DeMontague]

121. I don't think a FOIA case is the kind of thing that can be appealed

or "shopped around" to different judges.

As far as I understand it, the judge would have to recuse himself; otherwise they're stuck with him. I think this is why they're shitting themselves. They've been stalling for two years. The clock really is running out on this crap.

[SammyWinstonJack]

42. Here's a thought!

No torture, therefore no photos, therefore no violence. :shrug:

[Mr Rabble]

45. War Crimes have a way of pissing people off.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

46. Hasn't this issue already been litigated?

With the Judge balancing the interests involved and finding in favor of the public's right to know?

[Warren DeMontague]

78. Yes, but the government keeps playing games.

They pulled this 7(F) exemption at the last minute. Actually, this stuff was supposed to come out last summer, believe it or not.

They've been stalling on this for a very, very, very long time.

[rodeodance]

107. but the gov. filed 11th our papers!!!1

[deadparrot]

48. It's gonna cause violence either way.

What Gen. Myers means to say is that "it will politically fuck me and, by extension, the Bush Administration."

You made your bed, general, now lie in it.

[SoCalDem]

50. That's like saying that arresting a criminal might make him "mad"..

The pics WILL get out..mark my words.. people KNOW about them.. when was the last time you heard of film/tape an incriminating event NOT being duplicated before turning the originals over??

Once the prints/tapes are out of your hands, you have no way of knowing what will hapopen to them.. people who turn these things over do it for a REASON.. That reason is NOT to have the "evidence' shoved under the rug..

[madeline_con]

51. Sick thing is, why were they documented?

It's like finding a pedophile's exploits right there by the TV once the warrant is issued.

EDT: on 2nd thought, maybe they could show the videos to other family members to get info. (??)

[SoCalDem]

52. Two reasons.

1. Some people were pleased with themselves and took them for a 'trophy"
2. Some probably "played along", but were disgusted, and wanted proof for a later date

[madeline_con]

62. Yes, because weren't the first pics....

turned over by someone who was disgusted?

Trophies. Yes, that would be like Vietnamese "earlobes", huh?

[charlie]

59. The sick thing is this vile situation

they've put us in. Our gov't, in possession of snuff smut and wailing "you caaan't, it's too dangeroooous!"

And I always thought Nixon clutching his tapes was a sordid spectacle. Life in the age of the Dubya Republicans is rancid beyond words.

[madeline_con]

64. I only hope his legacy is that of THE most hated Prez EVER!!!

he desrves to die a lonely hated old drunk!

[Warren DeMontague]

71. Well, to show you how seriously they take this, the first act your gov't

took in response to these atrocities was to ban digital cameras.

It's not the behavior that's the problem, it's the evidence - and particularly the evidence reaching the public.

[jarnocan]

93. true -so many reasons to IMPEACH

BushINc. endangered OUR troops with his lies of course but even more so by not just allowing but advocating torture.
If they do NOT release them publically, they should turn them over to the GENEVA convention or the UN and war crime charges should ensue. I would think covering this up in itself would be a war crime.
THAT is excactly why there has been all this anti-UN spin from the far right neocons and reconstructionist -because they DO NOT want to be held accountable for their premeptive wars and war crimes. This was all premeditated.

[LibDemAlways]

67. The time for Myers to have worried about the

consequences was before these heinous acts were authorized and approved. Tough shit, General. You reap what you sew.

[Warren DeMontague]

69. So, essentially, what General Myers is saying is that the FOIA is

totally fucking meaningless.

Because if "we really don't want to release that" is a valid argument for the government to put forth re: the FOIA, nothing will ever be released, because if the government wanted to release it, you wouldn't need a FOIA in the first place.

[Warren DeMontague]

75. The NY Times only got it part right...

The A.C.L.U.'s papers drew attention to the Pentagon's filings, which had been unsealed last week.

First of all, some folks have been paying attention to this story for two years, particularly since these photos were originally supposed to be released last summer (can't have that, election and all!) ...and the Pentagon's filings weren't "unsealed", the public portions were immediately avaliable to the public; but about 70% of the four filings are "redacted" and secret, presumably because they refer to specifics about what the images and videos contain... and another part of the hearing on the 15th (Monday's a big day!) is to determine whether or not the redacted portions of the filings can continue to be withheld from the public.

[Warren DeMontague]

80. Link to thread with latest ACLU release: (today)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4321711

Also 14 media groups filed a friend-of-the-court brief in support of the ACLU and contesting the governments arguments regarding the FOIA and this material:

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Reporters_Court_must_order_release_of_Ghr_0804.html

[Spock_is_Skeptical]

81. gee, I wonder why that might be?!

how despicable.

[shanti]

82. WHERE ARE THE DEMS ON THIS ISSUE!!!????

this really pisses me off! :grr:

[BikeWriter]

84. Well, gee, golly, gosh, I'm a Dem, and I know where I am!

[rman]

90. Yeah but where's the Dem leadership?

[lynettebro440]

94. So why not throw this on top

of Cindy, the million or so of us dems that are going to be on the White House lawn on September 24th and DEMAND to see those pictures. We the people demand. Screw the Middle East, WE THE PEOPLE demand to see those photos. Can we still do that in this world anymore?

[shanti]

116. see rman's response

:eyes:

[Cocoa]

96. are you aware of what Carl Levin has been doing?

[shanti]

117. no, i have not heard

can you bring me up to speed?

[BelgianMadCow]

88. Well that would pass, if it weren't for Seymour Hersh's article

explaining how Geneva circumvention was a policy first finetuned in Gitmo and prisons in Afghanistan, and later succesfully exported.

If this WAS "a few bad apples", one could argue the case.

But since it was a policy, this doesn't hold water.

Jon Stewart had a nice graph showing army organigram all the way to the top, and then showing the torture scandal had repercusiions al the way up to.....

staff sergeant.

the whole guilty piramid above would be toppled when all comes out.

Imagine the Taguba report getting airplay.

[enough]

89. kick

[Robeson]

91. We have a right to see what you did in our name, General.

[Talismom]

92. I'll tell you what violence they're worrying about, US citizens waking up,

and storming our "Bastille" and beheading the despots who have taken over and perverted our country! Notice that most of the "homeland security" measures have done nothing to make us safe from attacks from foreign terrorists and done everything to cut back on OUR civil liberties! They are afraid of US using our rights and depriving them of some of the powers they have grabbed!

[leftchick]

95. I thought they hated us for our freedoms?

they won't care about any photos or videos of torture and abuse at the hands of the US. They want to kill us for our freedoms. Just ask the chimperor**.

[PATRICK]

98. Curious admission

If the insurgents need actual photos to prove what they already know and part of the horrors they already believe then perhaps the true perspective might cause the American public likewise to react to the reality in learning the exact truth not the opposite feel good drivel at the other polar end of this hidden scandal.

In other words the truth would be better to balance out and open air what is already out of the bag. The only people who actually suffer from the truth coming out, that is from the clarity of visual evidence getting people world wide in better contact with the truth, it is the lars who benefit most from secrecy, the crimes committed, the ultimate goals of both the former.

The dire results thus are really ONLY significant to those who should be held accountable and the agenda which the torture and truth repression serves.

Terrorists hide behind innocent shields. Villains take hostages. Liars divert attention to some other person and threaten more pain. Those making such excuses ring very clearly in the mind and gut as perps squealing protests and excuses. The degree of consequences can be marginally increased- things made "worse"- by letting more truth out? Their denial is for our own good and its everyone else's fault if someone looks at what THEY have done?

No wonder the RW refuses psychiatric treatment.

[SunDrop23]

99. How could it cause violence, those prisoners are in the lap of luxury

I mean, WTF they have it MADE.

[Cocoa]

104. did you hear, they get to read "Harry Potter"

lucky duckies...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4302461

[salin]

100. Meanwhile, the WH is willing to veto the war funding legislation

because it has a provision aimed at putting accountability into treatment of detainees and prevent torture/excessive abuse.

IOW, it isn't the actions (torture and excessive abuse) that would cause resistance, riots and put other troops in danger - it is just showing to the public - what people in Iraq already know (folks leave detention eventually, or some do, and talk) that would spark a violent reaction.

[GoBlue]

101. But more importantly...

their release would cause further disgust by the entire civilized world toward the perpetrators of these vile acts. Now who would that be, Gen. Myers?:nopity:

[NJmaverick]

105. I think bush should be held accountable for the actions

that these photos represent.

[rodeodance]

106. 'bring em on' by Bush has lead to the violence.

[triguy46]

114. No pictures, no problem!!

the neocons and military see this as a win, if the pictures don't come out, then abu ghraib didn't happen. It also allows them to once again ratchet up the fear factor of terrorism, a key tool of facism.

they are living in the "out of sigh, out of mind" world that * has created. If we don't see caskets coming off planes, then there are no dead!!

[lala_rawraw]

118. Ah, much of the world has seen a lot of this... what he wants to say

is that riots, violence, and so forth would happen HERE if WE saw what was being done in my name... be that as it may, if it is that bad, then why are we doing it dear general?

[nadinbrzezinski]

123. Martial LAw but I am sure you knew that

;-)

[Make7]

126. I don't know if my irony meter goes high enough.

The United States is committed to the world-wide elimination of torture and we are leading this fight by example. I call on all governments to join with the United States and the community of law-abiding nations in prohibiting, investigating, and prosecuting all acts of torture and in undertaking to prevent other cruel and unusual punishment. I call on all nations to speak out against torture in all its forms and to make ending torture an essential part of their diplomacy. I further urge governments to join America and others in supporting torture victims' treatment centers, contributing to the UN Fund for the Victims of Torture, and supporting the efforts of non-governmental organizations to end torture and assist its victims. - George W. Bush, June 26, 2003

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/06/20030626-3.html

"Judge us by our actions," Rumsfeld said. "Watch how Americans, watch how democracy deals with wrongdoing and scandal and the pain of acknowledging and correcting our own mistakes and, indeed, our own weaknesses."
____________________

"There are other photos -- many other photos -- that depict incidents of physical violence towards prisoners, acts that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman," Rumsfeld told the Senate Armed Services Committee. "And I am advised there also are videos of these actions."
____________________

"These events occurred on my watch," Rumsfeld told the Senate Armed Services Committee. "As secretary of defense, I am accountable for them and I take full responsibility."

Rumsfeld vowed to stay on the job as long as he could remain effective, but admitted that he had failed to convey the gravity of the abuse at the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad to either the president or Congress.

"If there's a failure, it's me. It's my failure for not understanding and knowing that there were hundreds -- or however many there are of these things -- that could eventually end up in the public and do the damage they've done," Rumsfeld said, talking about photographs of the abuse.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/05/07/politics.abuse.main

Is he saying he takes full responsibility for the pictures coming out?

-Make7

[nadinbrzezinski]

127. will have to charge you for a new keyboard

boy this IS FUNNY