"All the coral, all the sponges, all the crabs...everything's dead"

[BurtWorm]

Some kind of environmental disaster (possibly red tide) has occurred in the Gulf of Mexico. (Thanks to Pepperbelly for posting this in the science group.) Does anyone have more news about this?

http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2005/8/10/112685.html

Gulf of Mexico mystery
Wednesday, August 10, 2005


...

"Right now, anywhere we go from shore to 20 miles offshore, from Sarasota to Tarpon Springs, we can't find a single creature alive on the bottom right now," said Miller.

Miller says he's never seen such death and devastation under water in his 20 years of diving.

"All the coral, all the sponges, all the crabs, not a single living thing, all the star fish, the brittle stars, everything's dead," said Miller.



The sea turtles that died are being preserved with ice at the aquarium, where a necropsy will be performed in hopes it will provide some clues as to what's lurking in the waters of the gulf.

Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission scientists will ultimately decide whether red tide is causing the sea turtles to die. The results from the test could take anywhere from a couple of days to a couple of weeks. ...

[walldude]

1. 20 miles off shore... damn

something wierd going on there....

[Dr.Phool]

2. I live in the Tarpon Springs area

News reports said that this is the longest and strongest red tide ever recorded. It could be that the Gulf temperature is 91 degrees and it was 93 degrees a couple of weeks ago off of Clearwater Beach.

It's completely filled Tampa Bay. Devastating.

[soup]

9. Thanks. I wondered about the bay,

or the possibilities of a spill or something there contributing to the dead sealife. After reading the article, it sounds like they're leaning towards red tide intoxication.

Very strange, very scary.

[ultraist]

23. I used to live in Tarpon!

I lived in the neighborhood that is on the bayou, on Lemon St., in a historic bungalow. I love Tarpon Springs.

Red tide has been a real problem in that area for decades. It sounds like it reached the threshold level.

[Lorien]

39. Welcome to Global Warming. n/t

[kcass1954]

3. Well, once everything's dead...

there's no reason we can't start drilling for oil there.

:sarcasm: off

[Eloriel]

70. Hey, there's a happy thought!

:sarcasm:

[Generic Other]

4. Wasn't there a thread afew days ago about an mysterious

mile-long exodus of fish?

[Beelzebud]

25. Yes thre was. Immediately thought of that story...

Ever read about Easter Island?

We're doing that on a global scale...

[SteppingRazor]

5. As I posted in the Science forum, this is not some big mystery...

And this is hardly the first we've seen of it. Hypoxia in the Gulf is old news:

http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/products/pubs_hypox.html

[BurtWorm]

8. Very interesting,

Thanks.

[ChiciB1]

37. Did You Know That Mote Marine Has A Website And You Can

check to see what the levels are?? I check it because of my dog, don't want to take her down to the beach and have her roll around in the gunk!

[BurtWorm]

43. I grew up in Maine where red tide was an occasional problem.

It was a problem for the last two years that I know of.

I didn't know dogs could get affected by it until I was reading about the Florida problem today. Poor puppies!

[ChiciB1]

54. From The Way You Talked, I Assumed You Lived In My Area

Bradenton, Sarasota, Nokomis, Venice, North Port, Port Charlotte and points south all seem to run together and have been experiencing Red Tide for many many years now.

And I might add, at least 2 and maybe 3 outbreaks every year now.

And yes, I was surprised about my dog's infection, and it was AFTER the levels were deemed safe! This past year I was surprised by an the extreme amount of horse shoe crabs I saw washing up on the shore line. I wonder if there are different strains now because I can't recall seeing that many horse crabs dying before.

Anyway, the Mote Marine Lab has a good web site even though most of their updates run about a week behind.

[BurtWorm]

56. I've actually never been in that part of Florida.

I've been to the East Coast several times, but we never made that drive across Alligator Alley.

Mote Marine Lab, it turns out, is funded by a lot of the polluters on that coast, including Cargill and Exxon. Your local Sierra Club is suing them, I think. They've pointed out that the laboratory shies away from connecting red tide to pollution and human influences. They're doing Cargill's diryt PR work for them.

[ChiciB1]

61. EEEEWWWW.... Thanks For That Info!!

I Do live in the heart of REPUKES!! Katherine Harris is my Congressperson! YIKES!

Well, I just get the info from there, never have donated any money!

But thanks again, I'll sure remember it.

[Eloriel]

71. You owe it to yourself to go. The Gulf is beautiful

and nothing I've ever seen of the east coast is, tho I've not been down to Miami or south of there. I imagine the Caribbean is okay, but Daytona and above -- Bleccch. You can have it.

Beautiful clear water on the Gulf side. We like Destin and other spots along the Emerald Coast with the sugar white sand (panhandle). Heavenly. Haven't been back in far too long, tho. But I'd take St. Pete or Clearwater in a heartbeat.

[BurtWorm]

73. I do intend to make it over there next trip.

Maybe this spring. I'm kind of fond of the Miami-Broward County coast, as tacky as a lot of it is.

[sexybomber]

6. What??!

Sarasota to Tarpon Springs is about 80 miles of coast. Times 20 miles is 1600 square miles of seafloor.

Speaking as a budding oceanographer (really, I'm going to grad school for it), that would have to be one HELL of a red tide to kill everything in an 80 x 20 mile area. A red tide of that magnitude on such a large scale is an incredibly rare thing.

I wonder if there have been any illegal sewage dumps or chemical spills in the area lately?

[BurtWorm]

11. This is in the NOAA Assessment Stepping Razor posted

"Agreement to Shrink Dead Zone

"BATON ROUGE, LOUISIANA--Negotiations have been raging for months over how to shrink the "dead zone" in the Gulf of Mexico (Science, 23 June, p. 2111). On 11 October, federal and state officials finally agreed on an ambitious $1-billion-per-year plan to revive as much as 30 percent of the dead zone by 2015. The plan could also help head off a crash of Gulf fisheries, officials say.

"Dead zones are becoming more common worldwide in areas where coastal waters are swamped with nutrients, particularly nitrogen, from sewage or fertilizer. The excess nitrogen allows algae populations to explode. Dead algae in turn feed bacteria, which gobble up most of the oxygen in the water. Shellfish suffocate, and fish must swim for more healthful waters. The Gulf of Mexico's dead zone swells each summer to about 18,000 square kilometers--roughly the size of New Jersey. Researchers blame the 1.6 million metric tons of nitrogen, much of it from farm fields, that washes down the mighty Mississippi River each year."

[sexybomber]

18. The Dead Zone is different, IIRC.

This particular red tide is like a mini DZ off the coast of Florida. The main one is right in the middle of the Gulf.

There's some wild stuff on the bottom in the DZ... I remember a research team finding a sulfate lake or something really weird down there. This was a couple years ago, I'll see if I can find the article.

[madfloridian]

7. Piney Point, Cargill, dumping, phosphate waste water.....google.

http://www.redtidealert.com/NewsandArticlesaboutPineyPointPhosphates.html

Here is the first thing, but many more. This just happened recently, and of course it is involved.

[soup]

10. Thanks, madfloridian. I couldn't remember the names. n/t

[sexybomber]

13. Yep, there's your smoking gun...

or at least one of them.

High temperatures + lots of phosphates and nitrates (nutrients) + summer sun (more energy) = GIGANTIC RED TIDE.

This has to be some sort of record for worst ever.

[kestrel91316]

51. This is the logical outcome of "shitting where you lie" ................

when we throw things "away" we need to remember there is no such thing as "away", really. When we pollute and it goes "away"...........same thing, not really "away" at all. Just polluting somewhere else.

This is what happens when farms become factories.

[BurtWorm]

19. What a depressing site!

But a necessary one. I was just reading about the connection between forest fires (which are becoming more common and severe because of global warming) and red tides. :scared:

[madfloridian]

21. Try this for depressing: "Barge arrives to dump polluted water."

http://www.sun-herald.com/newsarchive2/071803/ch1.htm?date=071803&story=ch1.%0Dhtm

07/18/03
Barge arrives to dump polluted water

Fishermen ready to fight dumping plan

"Weeks overdue, the 500-foot-long barge "New York" docked at Port Manatee on Thursday and began taking its first load of polluted water from the defunct Piney Point phosphate chemical plant.

Officials at Florida Department of Environmental Protection plan to use the barge to dump some 500 million gallons of treated -- but still nutrient-rich -- wastewater from the plant into the Gulf of Mexico. But commercial fishermen are gearing up for battle to block the dumping. They include third-generation sponge diver George Billiris of Tarpon Springs.

"You have a lot of people depending on the Gulf to make their livelihood," the 76-year-old Billiris said. "How can I expect a guy that has nothing to do with working on the water to understand it?"

The dumping is urgently needed to avoid a washout of dams containing 2 billion gallons of untreated highly-acidic wastewater into Bishop Harbor, a once-pristine estuary along Tampa Bay. The water is currently perched on top of rapidly eroding phosphogypsum stacks at the chemical plant -- and summer rains could cause the dams to blow, according to DEP Deputy Secretary Allan Bedwell.

But the plans may get changed in a last-ditch attempt to address the growing swell of protests from commercial and sport fishing groups, DEP spokeswoman Deena Wells said Thursday."

The utter chill of that headline.

[BurtWorm]

22. Who owned that plant?

I noticed your link to another story that names Cargill as a dumper of radioactive water during Ivan (was it?).

Now I'm curious what Katherine Harris has to do with any of this? Isn't her district near this area?

[madfloridian]

24. Cargill owned a plant in Polk County as well.

I am looking for the info. Cargill is, I believe, connected to the Piney Point? Will need to check.

Everyone knew this was going on, so I guess Dear Kate did as well.

It just discourages me so.

[BurtWorm]

26. I just went to opensecrets.org and found that Cargill gives big to

Adam Putnam. Is he that little fascist runt, the youngest Congress twerp?

http://opensecrets.org/pacs/memberprofile.asp?cid=N00009618&cycle=2004&expand=A

[madfloridian]

27. The young red-headed twerp who is arrogant.

I am still looking for the names of the owners who bailed out, left Polk County high and dry, and had no responsibility to clean up things. I have the records somewhere.

[BurtWorm]

28. Weird that it's not part of the story, isn't it?

It makes it sound like it's the public's fault. :wtf:

[madfloridian]

12. More on this outrage...how dare they pretend innocence.

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/05/23/Tampabay/Wastewater_may_go_far.shtml

Wastewater may go farther into gulf
U.S. Rep. Mike Bilirakis says officials are listening to the public's concerns about the dumping plan.
By CANDACE RONDEAUX, Times Staff Writer
© St. Petersburg Times
published May 23, 2003

Building on conversations with lawmakers last week, federal and state environmental officials say they're considering more changes to a controversial plan to dump millions of gallons of wastewater into the Gulf of Mexico.

A key change calls for barges to start dispersing the treated wastewater from the Piney Point phosphate plant as far out as 125 miles from the Gulf Coast and work their back toward an area 40 miles from shore.

The suggestion was one of several points federal and state regulators touched on during a Washington meeting with U.S. Rep. Mike Bilirakis, R-Tarpon Springs, on Wednesday. Bilirakis said environmental officials are listening to the public's demands for changes.

"I have confidence that they are going to go out farther" into the gulf, Bilirakis said in a telephone interview Thursday.

"I've told them, "Why don't you start at 100 or 125 miles?' " he said. "Then come in in increments. That way if you run into a problem where the monitoring is showing there's a problem then you can stop it before it gets close to shore."

The wastewater now is being stored in an unstable earthen mound at Port Manatee. State officials worry that untreated water could spill from the mound, which is nearly full, and pollute Tampa Bay."

More
http://www.ecofloridamag.com/archived/news_phosphate_wastewater2.htm

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/10/22/State/DEP_seeks_more_time_t.shtml

[lectrobyte]

14. We enter the age of calamity.

[yardwork]

15. This is terrible.

[Divernan]

16. Check out Thread 1695356, posted by Minstrel Boy

Has story from Tampa Tribune reporter, headlined:
Diver in Gulf Report Zero things Alive.

This story is growing legs, as it should. Pinellas county has for years pumped its sewage into dried out wells, ie just into the ground. Florida has a limestone aquifer only 10 feet deep, so what goes down there has evidently started to come back out - into the ocean. Combine that with the red tide - from the description of the divers, if the coral has been killed, it will take decades to come back - and then only if the water was clean enough and the right temp to support growth. All those damn Florida developers have made their millions and can move off shore to some Caribbean Island. I wouldn't go in the waters off Pinellas County EVER. As someone said, for a few cents a flush Floridians could have saved those beaches - but no politician will run on a raise-the-water rates-save-the-environment platform

[Horse with no Name]

17. Doesn't Neil or Marvin Bush own some sort of refinery company

off the gulf? Mustang Island maybe?

On edit:
Here is something interesting from 2001:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/july01/oil_7-3.html
>>>>snip
While President Bush's plan met with approval from some environmentalists, others said the exploration still poses a threat to the region.

"More rigs mean more pipelines and tankers, and thus a higher risk to Florida and Alabama's coastal economies and fisheries," Frank Jackalone of the Sierra Club's Florida office said.

[madfloridian]

20. A lot of this dumping was done after Frances and Ivan last year.

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/09/10/Tampabay/Fertilizer_plant_gets.shtml
Fertilizer plant gets set for Ivan

"After Frances forced them to dump polluted water, a Cargill hastily looks to relocate billions of gallons more.
TAMPA - With Hurricane Ivan swirling near Florida, Cargill Crop Nutrition is scrambling to drain an industrial recycling system that includes a faulty gypsum stack holding a billion gallons of heavily polluted water above Hillsborough Bay.

A break in the stack Sunday caused by waves whipped up by Frances forced the Riverview fertilizer manufacturer to dump nearly 70-million gallons of treated but toxic water into a creek that leads to Hillsborough Bay.

The company repaired the break and plans to line the weakened area with plastic to avoid a repeat performance if Ivan hits, said Sam Elrabi, a spokesman for the Hillsborough Environmental Protection Commission, which monitors the water management practices at Cargill.

Now the focus has shifted to a nearby 238-acre holding pond, made of an 18-foot earthen wall, that is "full to the rim" and vulnerable to a similar break, Elrabi said."

A lot of the wastes from phosphate plants is radioactive, such as gypsum. There are huge piles of this throughout several Central Florida counties.

I don't know about the wastewater from the plants being radio-active, but it is highly acidic.

How can they even be surprised.

[madfloridian]

29. Burtworm, I connected Cargill, Piney Point, and Mulberry Corp.

Sort of anyway. Mulberry Corporation is the one who appears to have gone bankrupt in 2001 or 2002. It is their owners who left Polk County with all the pollution, and they took off to live comfortably. I am trying to find the owners' names now. There were some threads on this here last year.

There is a lot more in the article.

http://www.baysoundings.com/sum02/pineypt.html

The Story So Far
A troubled history

1966
Borden Chemical Company constructs Piney Point phosphate plant; four owners since then.

1989
23,000-gallon leak of sulfuric acid from a holding tank, forcing the evacuation of hundreds of people, including Port Manatee workers.

1991
Two air releases of sulfur dioxide and sulfur trioxide.

1993
Mulberry Corporation purchases Piney Point facility from Royster Phosphates, Inc. after Royster declares bankruptcy.


1997
Dam failure at Polk County plant sends 54 million gallons of acid water into Alafia River, killing more than a million fish.

Dec. 28, 1999
Citing a depressed fertilizer market, Mulberry Corp. notifies Florida Department of Environmental Protection of proposed facility shutdowns, with intent to re-open in six months.

2000
DEP increases frequency of inspections and hires consulting firm to verify water storage calculations.

Jan. 30, 2001
Mulberry Corp. contacts DEP to say that financial difficulties will prevent it from assuring environmental security at its Polk County and Piney Point plants; abandons plants 48 hours later.

Feb. 7, 2001
EPA jumps in on emergency basis to run operations for two weeks.

Feb. 8, 2001
Mulberry Corporation files for bankruptcy.

Feb. 21, 2001
DEP takes over with initial $4 million in state emergency funds, most of which is needed to pay the electric bill to keep water pumps and water treatment devices working.

Nov. 2001
DEP authorizes emergency discharges into Bishop Harbor following Tropical Storm Gabrielle; 10 million gallons of partially treated wastewater released to prevent total collapse of dikes.

Jan. 2002
Agency on Bay Management forms task force to develop alternatives to discharging partially treated wastewater from site.

Spring 2002
DEP hires FSU finance professor to develop recommendations for strengthening corporate financial assurances.

May 2002
Cargill Fertilizer announces plans to take over Mulberry Corp.'s defunct Polk County plant.

[madfloridian]

31. And aerial views of Piney Point from the Florida DEP

http://www.floridadep.org/secretary/news/2003/pp/pp_photos.htm

CAVE-IN AT PINEY POINT, MARCH 2003 Slope failure occurred at the base of the 70 foot tall phosphogypsum stack.


EMERGENCY WATER LEVELS, JANUARY 2003 Historic rainfall of 16.5 inches in December 2002 generated over 200 million gallons of additional acidic wastewater, bringing wastewater volume to dangerously high levels.


This is the water they took out to the gulf in barges and dumped it. Then they wonder why the Gulf of Mexico is dying.

[BurtWorm]

33. Holy shit!

I feel like I'm reading about a third world country--actually about the way first world corporations treat third world countries.

This is a scandal, isn't it? Or should I say, why isn't it?

[lonestarnot]

30. Red tide from practiced some bioterra or an ocean nuke? Read this

last night and am freaked out, but is there anything we can do about it?

[Trevelyan]

32. After the Tsunami I typed in Beached Whales + Navy and was shocked by the

incredible number of Beached Whales including deep-diving which are seldom stranded, dolphins and Giant Squid with blood pouring out of orifices in almost every shoreline of every country or island in the world including Japan and Australia and smaller islands. When Whale Rider DVD was released, that day several whales were beached in Australia.


http://www.earthportals.com/beachedwhales.html

The Killing of Earth's Whales by Sonar

US Navy, and NATO test Low Frequency Active Sonar (LFAS) system to detect diesel and nuclear submarines.The information you are about to read in this article is not pleasant, and is very sad. It questions the wisdom of the scientific quest, and makes you want to stop this unbelievable madness.

"Insights", as a Conscious E-Zine, presents issues and ideas that are not always pleasant, but need to be expressed due to their severity, and need for awareness.

The internet has become a global voice and by presenting this awareness we can better question our own actions, and how that may impact our surrondings and our planet. It is clear beyond doubt that current ideology is allowing not only the killing of ocaen life, but indigenous people, forests, rivers and waterways, and ultimately our own species. As writer and publisher for "Insights" I too try to express my opinions, as we all should, now that we have access to a global communications medium. If you think that our planet is not in serious trouble then this article will pin point a devastating look at what technolgy and poor thinking is doing to the oldest living creatures on Earth.

I wish with all my heart I could weild the power to stop this activity. I want it to stop. We should all want it to stop. Why must it continue? Please use this information to help others become informed.

Willard Van De Bogart - Publisher "Insights"

~~~~~~~~~

"BEWARE, THE BEACHED CANARIES*" What Stranded Dolphins and Whales are Trying to Tell us About a Global Emergency Beneath the Sea"

By Bobbie Sandoz
(*The death of canaries taken into coal mines warned the miners of trouble below.)

In the last few months, hundreds of dolphins are washing up dead along European shores while dolphins and whales are again playing with people in Hawaii after two years of ignoring them following our government sonifying these high level beings in their own Marine Sanctuary. This grateful return of their friendliness toward humans in Hawaii is clearly an act of forgiving the unforgivable. In January, hundreds of dolphins stranded along our eastern coast, while a superpod of orcas off California circled a group of boats to flirt and play with the people aboard, then remained afloat on the surface as the sun set on their fins. A similar contrast occurred last summer when a group of San Juan Orcas appeared in time to appreciate a human concert given in their honor, showing particular interest in Amazing Grace, or forgiveness without merit, while hundreds of their gray whale cousins washed up dead on west coast shores.

Although these events contribute to an uneasy yet growing pattern of marine mammal strandings juxtaposed to their kindness to us, there has been little media coverage of this disturbing phenomenon or a true investigation of why it is happening. Are we so indifferent that we don't really care or is there a massive cover-up....or both?

{More}

[faithnotgreed]

34. as painful as this is people need to read this

[ailsagirl]

35. Oh, that's so sad... all those beautiful creatures

We bring on so much misery by our arrogant sense of entitlement.
The cause may be unknown at present but I have absolutely no doubt
whatsoever it was caused by humans. :(

:banghead:

[FizzFuzz]

38. what you said.

:cry:

[ailsagirl]

40. FizzFuzz...

:hug:

[FizzFuzz]

67. Thanks ailsa; this is beyond sad

I hate this. A world without animals and wildlife is not a world I want.

:cry:

:hug:

[ailsagirl]

68. I know... I feel exactly the same way. It's not fair. :=(

:hug: :grouphug:

[FizzFuzz]

69. *nodding somberly*

yep

:hug:

[ChiciB1]

36. I Live In Nokomis/Venice... Just Had Some Nasty Red-Tide

that's dissipating now. I take my dog to the "doggie beach" and she got infected eyes from swimming in the water. Tells you something, huh??

Had some friends who just came back from the Keys, guess it's not as pristine as it used to be either! Used to go down there EVERY year for lobsters, don't anymore. My friend told me that most of the lobsters were too small to keep. And the last time I was there you weren't allowed to have any conchs either.

I remember many many wonderful times down there. Sarasota is noted for the Whitest Beaches in the world, which is true, but Red Tide sure makes for a mess! I remember one time several years back, maybe 1995 it was so bad you HAD to stay inside. I live near Nokomis beach and you literally gagged!

[AnnieBW]

58. My MIL Lives in Venice

And her and her second husband are right-wing repugs. I was under the impression that they didn't even let Dems into Venice! :D That must be why you live in Nokomis.

We were there in April, and I noticed even then there was something wrong.

Oh, BTW, Sarasota/Bradenton is Katherine Harris' Congressional district. That might be something to use against her in the Senate campaign.

[BurtWorm]

60. I looked into her legislative work around the Gulf of Mexico

and haven't found anything too damning so far. But I was distracted by the discovery that Cargill, which is one of the main polluters, gives tons of dough to Adam Putnam in district 12, which is probably where a lot of the runoff causing this disaster is coming from.

[ailsagirl]

41. Found this website-- "The Red Tide Alliance"

I have to confess (to my shame) I've never heard of red tide.
I'll certainly never forget it now.

http://www.redtideonline.com/index.htm

[BurtWorm]

42. Interesting map of the Florida coast red tide situation

http://www.floridamarine.org/features/view_article.asp?id=9670#Map

[BurtWorm]

74. I just noticed something weird about the legend to this map.

Notice how gradual the "low" counts are--four separate categories, five if you count "present"--and only one category each for medium and high. This makes it seem as though the counts are mostly low except in a few spots. So how is it that those few high and medium counts are causing all this damage?

[ailsagirl]

44. It's a small consolation but at least it's not a new phenomenon...

One of the FAQs on the website was:

Is red tide a new phenonomen?

No. The first official reporting of red tide in Florida was in 1844.
Government officials documented discolored water and massive
fish kills.

But it's still a huge drag.
:(

[BurtWorm]

45. I think it can only get to be a huger and huger drag.

Humans definitely have an impact on the oceans beyond what most of us are aware of.

[ailsagirl]

47. That's for sure. I always thought the oceans were so massive,

so huge and impervious to our assaults. Sadly, I was WAY off target.

Just goes to show, if you chip away at something long enough, you will
get results. I hope that's the case with bushco.

:evilgrin:

[BurtWorm]

46. Red Tide Alliance is run by Mote Marine, a pro-business group

that tried to argue that red tide was "natural." It's (Jeb) Bushist science, it seems to me:

http://www.redtidealert.com/Editorials.html (scroll down to CATHY ZOLLO)

Despite a significant change to the red tide information on its Web site, Mote Marine Laboratories says it hasn't changed its tune about the harmful algae that again is plaguing the Southwest Florida coast.

...

In the days after the Sierra Club Calusa Group announced last week its intention to file a lawsuit against Mote in Sarasota and the Florida Fish and Wildlife Research Institute in St. Petersburg over red tide, information on Mote's Web site changed significantly.

Before last week, the Mote Web site said, "Florida red tides represent a natural process not caused by pollution." Sometime last week, the site changed and now says, "The extent to which coastal pollution influences red tides is an area of intense interest and considerable effort is being placed toward those investigations."

Sierra Club Calusa Group members monitoring Mote caught the shift.

The dispute between the conservation group and red tide researchers working for the state concerns whether researchers, despite years of work and millions in tax dollars for study, have failed to seriously seek a possible link between land-based nutrient runoff and red tide.

[ailsagirl]

48. Good catch-- I didn't research it closely... just googled "red tide"

and found it.

Thanks for pointing that out!!
:)

[PinkyisBlue]

52. Research

This is the Bush regime's M.O.; just keep saying you're researching a topic and then you don't have to take any action. We wouldn't want to make companies more environmentally responsible, as this may cut into their profits.
Bush denied the reality of global warming for years, saying that the topic needed to be researched more. I, for one, don't remember a hotter, muggier summer than this one in my lifetime. Someday, when the power can't keep up with our demands for air conditioning, we're all going to be steamed.

[madfloridian]

49. One early morning kick for importance.

:kick:

[Lori Price CLG]

50. Kick. n/t

[Old Mouse]

53. followup

"Though it's not certain that red tide killed the turtles, scientists at the Fish & Wildlife Research Institute in St. Petersburg think the toxic algae wiped out sea life, creating the dead zone Miller and other divers discovered.

The scientists' theory goes like this: Red tide cells don't like to pass through water temperature differences of more than 2 degrees. Scientists think a thermocline, or zone of cold water, formed above the warmer water at the bottom, holding the algae bloom there longer than it naturally would stay."

http://news.tbo.com/news/MGB7OVBE8CE.html

[BurtWorm]

55. ``I'm talking zero things are alive out there,''

``I'm talking zero things are alive out there,'' Miller said. ``The only way to describe it is a nuclear bomb.''

[BurtWorm]

57. kick

[JCMach1]

59. There have been massive releases of fresh water from Lake Okeechobee

Included of course were all the nutrients put in place by the sugar industry.

Any questions?

We visited Sanibel Island about 1 week ago. The ocean looked and smelled like a filthy lake. I even got sick afterwards. There were VIRTUALLY NO SHELLS on Sanibel. This one-time piece of paradise has been systematically destroyed.

[BurtWorm]

62. kick

[madfloridian]

63. Are you here or in Dubai, JCMach1?

That is so sad about Sanibel. I have very fond memories of walking the beaches there when I was a teen-ager. It was famous for those shells.

[katinmn]

64. Thanks for posting this. What a disaster.

Just look how quickly things have slid backwards since the government was taken over by corporations.x(

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Richard Steele]

66. Well, I guess all those real scientists can shut up now!

Enjoy your stay, looney!

[burrowowl]

72. KICK!

and KICK!
Important story!