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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:33 PM
Original message
Was this a stupid thing to do?
My local paper ran this picture on B1 of local news.



It was just typical "Summer" fun kind of pic, but it seemed to me to be in very questionable taste.

The publisher defends the pictures saying they "were worth showing". He explains that the possibility of offending blacks was discussed, but they went with them anyway.

http://blog.news-record.com/staff/jrblog/archives/2005/08/more_than_1000.html

So, they did this with both eyes open, but somehow felt these pictures were compellingly newsworthy that offending blacks was an acceptable risk.

Your thoughts?
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. Honestly, I dunno that I would have thought of that point if you
Edited on Fri Aug-12-05 04:35 PM by GreenPartyVoter
hadn't made me aware of it.. but I see what you are saying now that you have.
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KyndCulture Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. My first instinct was yes... it was poor taste.
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. Doesn't everyone like watermelon? I gots one in the fridge...
...
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
99. Me, too!
It just isn't summer without watermelon!
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. I know it's an innocent picture but if I was in charge, I wouldn't
Edited on Fri Aug-12-05 04:46 PM by cat_girl25
have run with it. Surely they could have chosen another pic? But that watermelon does look good. :-)
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. I agree
To me, if they had just run the picture and not had a discussion, that would have been one thing. They would have been able to say, "Hey, we didn't even THINK of that. Gee, how times change."

But they DID talk about it, then ran the picture anyway. It occured to them the pic could be viewed as racist, then ran it.
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Booster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
5. I think I would have reserve that answer to blacks. It certainly
doesn't offend me, and I had no thought about it until your post.
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CBGLuthier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. I don't find it offensive
It's a girl eating watermelon in the summer.

All the racist stereotypes in the world should not and will not distract from the simplicity of a happy child.

Not for me anyway.
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Used and Abused Donating Member (401 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
94. i agree
I know all too well about that racist stereotype, but everyone likes watermelon. So if the pic was put up with racist intentions, it backfired. Although it's sick that they would involve a child.
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skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
7. It's a cute child eating a watermelon
Yeah, I understand what you're saying but I think it's extreme to label it questionable taste. Kids eat watermelon in the summer. It never would have occurred to me that there could be something offensive about it if you hadn't pointed it out.
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laura888 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
91. Yes - I agree with this assessment. n/t
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Reformed_republican Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. I see nothing Wrong With it.
Just A little Girl eating a Watermelon to me. :shrug:
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
9. I think we need to get past some of this.
Yeah, I can see why there'd be some hesitation, but it just doesn't seem right that there should be a problem.

We could show a little blond girl eating watermelon, but not a black girl?

I'd give it a coin toss.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. Or as another poster pointed out
A group of pictures of different children eating watermelon would be completely innocent, even with this little girl included.

But the print edition had three pics of the girl and her siblings.
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
10. i dont get it???
A kid eating watermellon??? I dont get what the issue is???????????????
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Blacks eating watermelon
has been a racist stero-type in the South for about 150 years.
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. sorry, not familiar with it n/t
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. Bless your innocent heart. :)
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. thanks, I see your point now.
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Qanisqineq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #23
75. Don't worry, I only learned of it a few years ago
I never heard anything about watermelon or fried chicken until I moved away from ND. Now I feel really strange if I offer watermelon to my black friends but it is just watermelon dammit! I like to eat watermelon (and so does my cat)!
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
11. I see a little girl eating watermelon on a hot summer day
and thats all i see.
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VTMechEngr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
103. Same. What did I miss?
:shrug:
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insane_cratic_gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
12. Among many faces








you get the idea..

honestly I only see a beautiful little girl eating watermelon
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. In this context, I would have no problem
They ran three pics, all of black children.
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Ah, now that's different
Are there links to all three pics? Are they all of eating watermelon?
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. No,
the three pics appear only in the print edition, all are eating watermelon.
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Ok, gotcha
The newspaper made a mistake.
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Rich Hunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #26
65. uhhh

I guess three pics is a little obvious. But you know how disingenuous some neo-con racists can be. They will take things as far as they think they can, but stopping short at admitting their true sentiments.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
13. The publisher's comments give me the impression that they ...
... don't have any blacks on their staff - as though "offending blacks" was something remote from the personal experience (and comprehension) of whomever "discussed" the "possibility."
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
28. Apparently they didn't give a damn if it did offend anyone.
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #28
40. Apparently not.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #40
86. all these are drawings with negative implications,
none are photos.

Photos of 'everyday life' subjects generally have the associations that the VIEWER brings to them. A percentage of viewers --both black and white-- did not see any implications. To be really scientific you'd need a poll, but I'm going to take some hope that that means this PARTICULAR cultural association is dying out...

I guess since it seems there are a wide range of viewpoints, I'd rather see this more positively than negatively as I don't think one could make an argument that interest in this theme (as a racist slur)
is GROWING! That would be TOO weird! And you wouldn't promote it using photographs this ordinary either.
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
15. Well if there were fried chicken and kool-aid in the pic as well
Edited on Fri Aug-12-05 04:55 PM by ohio_liberal
I might be offended.

edited to add that this is <snark>
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Kenroy Donating Member (768 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
16. I don't think so
it's a good photograph. I understand the hypersensitivity regarding the stereotype of "watermelon-loving negroes", but I don't think it means black people should NEVER be depicted enjoying a popular fruit.

Plus, I think the stereotype is dying out, as evidenced by people in this thread who were unaware such a stereotype even existed.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
36. Yes, I am glad to see so many folks
who didn't get it.

Perhaps, living in the South, where such things are still lurking I am oversensitive.
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Racism is not confined to the South
;)
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Nope, it isn't
But the wounds are still pretty fresh down here.
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. Well, yes
But even in states with a low Black population, the gaps are just as bad in the North, as in the South. Iowa, for example, has about a 2% Black population, yet THE GAPS in income, education, health care, etc are just as bad as Southern states. NY also has horrific gaps between whites and Blacks.

I live in NC, btw.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Where at?
I'm in High Point (this was the Greensboro News & Record).
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #44
55. Raleigh n/t
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #39
93. Maybe that has something to so with the abundance of Confederate
flags and racist people that still live there. I'm not saying everyone in the South is racist, but I certainly have seen (and met) many, many racists attitudes. Very sad.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
18. The picture is not offensive.
Though there may be some people who are offended by it.

The question is, can we ever show black folks and watermelon in the same picture?

--IMM
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Yes, with other people ALSO enjoying watermelon
who don't happen to be black.

The reason this bugs me is that my personal experience is that racism is still very alive in the South, lurking just below the thin veneer of civility show by many whites.

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HeeBGBz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
20. It's a beautiful pic, IMO
However I'm not black and don't know if that crosses the PC boundaries or not.

Nowdays just about anything will offend SOMEBODY.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #20
41. I don't care about a "PC boundary"
I simply question the wisdom of the editors with running such a picture after discussing the racial overtones.

The picture doesn't offend me. But the reasons, overt and covert, *trouble* me.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. Before this thread dies, I just want to thank you for your awareness
and understanding.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
25. I think it's a great photo, and I hate that something so innocent is
something so touchy. :-(
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lotus Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
27. I'm white and like watermellons too
Its fine. Nothing derogatory about eating a water mellon.

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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:52 PM
Original message
Whatever.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #27
45. BTW, welcome to DU!
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
30. I doubt they decided to 'risk offending blacks...'
Newspapers these days don't risk offending anyone unless maybe this is a real RW rag. You didn't say if the paper was known to have such a slant. Pic doesn't offend me, and I would say I am very sensitive to racial or other sterotyping. I find it cute+summer+fun. Why do you find it questionable kelvin mace? Does black kid + watermelon = insult to you? :) no harm meant

Maybe one day maybe this kind of question will all go away. I'm looking forward to that day.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. No, the pic doesn't "offend" me
it makes me question the judgement of the editors.

As I explained in earlier posts, in the print edition there were three pics, not one. All of the little girl and her siblings eating watermelon.

The N&R is typical of the spineless newspapers these days. Middle of the road and deathly afraid of offending the Limbaugh crowd.

It occasionally does some good reporting, but those times have gotten few and far between.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #33
71. OK gotcha ...well look at it another way...
FYI I grew up in the South and my parents both worked for major southern dailies. Judgment calls like this are always split-second when you are working against publishing deadlines. Photographers will do a little spread of a few pix from a single photo-op (it's all about time constraints...can't ask them to go looking around for(for ex) people of all races eating watermelon if the pix were good with the kids they first came up with, and they have exactly 20.5 minutes to get the paper to press). I don't say you couldn't be right--it's possible some real jackass thought he was making some kind of ridiculous point I suppose. If you have seen other stories you thought were blatantly racist in this paper then I'd say there's more of a case for it. I agree newspapers are spineless these days but in my head that's another argument for why they wouldn't have taken a risk of offending anyone. Generally they're killing themselves striving for bland neutrality.

A couple of other things that lead me to question if there was actual pandering to racist readers...

#1-- What would the Limbaugh crowd GET out of this? I mean really, how could they use such an innocent image (I'm assuming all 3 pix were equally cute) to any possible advantage? How does this pander necessarily? If racist readers don't particularly want to see pix of black kids at all, how does a spread on them reinforce that?

#2 -- Many younger readers these days would have NO idea what this was about, and if their elders were to try to indoctrinate them in some put-down about black kids and watermelon, it would just be TOO lame. This crap IS fading and will be ancient history in another generation. Actors like Eddie Murphy have done a lot to ridicule such stereotypes, effectively deconstructing them.

I respect your judgment on it --and I really dont know enough to say--but am just trying to imagine another not quite so depressing scenario. I know racism is out there, but not so much in mainstream papers, one would hope. :)
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. I agree with you that deadlines
could have come into play, execpt for the fact that the editor admits that they discussed the pics and their racial implications at length.

I don't see this as overt racism, I see this as clueless insensitivity.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #74
85. Well maybe the positive thing is
that this has sparked discussion about the survival of old sterotypical associations --it's obviously evoking some strong feelings so I have to think the discussion is productive.

The following is not an argument so much as a comment. I have been around graphic art and photography for a long time. I would not see a modern-day photograph of kids and watermelon as the SAME thing as one of the drawings of black kids and watermelon posted in this thread. To me is is not in the same realm even. The photos carry no implication, other than associations the viewer brings to them. As the newspaper's blog showed, viewers both black and white have a lot of different interpretations. In the case of the drawings, the artist obviously has a viewpoint that conjures up negative associations for the majority. I would imagine that the parents of the children being photgraphed gave their consent (any idea bout this?) and they must not have been offended. Do you think black parents would tell their kids--you are never to be photographed with a watermelon? In my head, that would be perpetuating the stereotype.

We all see photographic images that bother us on a regular basis. If I were to catalogue all the sexist images I see everyday, well...let's just say--it would consume my life to complain about them.

Maybe sometimes it's better to get this out in the open and try to get past it. If the paper had not done this, we would not be discussing it. It appears to me the newspaper is (at least) providing a place for discussion about this and is soliciting feedback that will help them in future.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #85
88. Excellent comments!
And I do give the paper top marks for having a place for feedback.

I agree with that a drawing WOULD be different.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
32. We had a message thread on something similar a few days ago


I would have gone with NOT running the picture.
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. Racist stereotypes should be avoided
Even the racist stereotypes that were created long ago, carry a lot of power and NOT just in the South.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #37
48. Agreed. And some people don't even know what the stereotypes are
But it sounds like that newspaper knew and still figured it would be okay.

Bad idea
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Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #37
52. So you deny this little girl ate a watermelon on a summer day?
Preposterous.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #52
67. no...he denies that running pictures of only african-american
Edited on Fri Aug-12-05 06:02 PM by noiretblu
children eating watermelon in a southern paper is "innocent."
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #52
72. No, I question the wisdom
of running three pictures of black children eating watermelon in a city where the Klan and Nazis murdered as recently as 1979 (my first year in Greesnboro) and in a state where crosses were burned on lawns as recently as two months ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_Massacre
http://www.guilfordian.com/media/paper281/news/2002/11/15/Features/The-Greensboro.Massacre-325707.shtml
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/2448526p-8852502c.html

The editors discussed the possibility that the pics might be viewed as racist, but went ahead anyway.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
34. Sometimes you just want it to be about a cute kid. nt
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OhioBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
43. it may have been in bad taste
but, it is a cute little girl eating watermelon. I guess it is all in the context. If they did as you said title it as "typical summer fun" and it wasn't at a watermelon festival or something, and it was 3 pics of black children eating watermelon, then the context may make it questionable. For a typical summer fun kind of pic display, i would have envisioned children swimming or running through sprinklers, playing ball in addition to eating summer treats. If they discussed it, you would have thought that they would have seen the context.
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emdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
47. I'll bet that cutie was so excited to have her pic in the paper!
I hope that a big deal is not made of this because I'll bet she's tickled to death to be in the paper! What a sweetie-pie!
emdee
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. I agree
The little girl is precious.

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Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
49. Why should anyone be offended by a beautiful girl eating a yummy melon?
What should they hide the picture? If it was a white kid, should they hide the picture?

:shrug:
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #49
54. Are you serious?
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Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #54
61. Why wouldn't I be?
I don't get what all the hub-bub is about. This conversation plays directly into the hands of stereotypes - which in and of themselves aren't bad things. Stereotypes are usually based on fact. (Babies like milk. Dogs chase cars. Mexicans eat refried beans.) It's a function of the human brain - it's how it catergorizes things. It's when those stereotypes are used to abuse, seperate and oppress people the problems come in. Most people are lazy (stereotype) to the point they won't think past the stereotype to realize some Mexicans don't like beans and all black people don't like watermelon. (Although, there is absolutely nothing wrong with liking either. Calling someone a "beaner" or a "watermelon eating blah, blah blah" is the problem. It's really not about the food!)

My husband's black and I can say he LOVES watermelon. Guess what? So do I. (And I love refried beans, too.) So, if my husband was sitting at a function enjoying a piece of watermelon and got his picture in the paper, should he be offended? Hummm? I don't think so. I'm sure he'd just hope the picture turned out as good as this one did.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. The troubling part to me
Edited on Fri Aug-12-05 05:52 PM by Kelvin Mace
was the use of three photos, all of black children. Also troubling was that the editors (white) discussed the possibility of racist overtones but went ahead anyway.

My discomfort is based on comments I have heard in "all white" environments where people felt "safe" to express comments they would never have expressed in the presence of minorities.

Having heard many racist things said while people were explaining how tolerant they were, this decision bugs me.

Perhaps their intent was ENTIRELY innocent. If so, great.

I just wish I could believe it.
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Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #64
77. You're probably right, it probably WASN'T entirely innocent. But,
think of this scenario...

You're the editor of the paper. You choose not to run the pictures. One of the children's mothers calls you up and says, "Mr. Editor. There was a reporter out at our event yesterday and he was taking pictures of my baby. I was wondering why those pictures weren't in the paper today? I was going to send one to my sister in California."

And you say, "Well, ma'am... your baby IS black and she was eating a watermelon. So, well, we didn't want to offend anybody."

Until people get over these NEGATIVE stereotypes to the point they CAN see the healthy children enjoying themselves with a piece of food these things will perpetuate forever. Just in this one thread there are people who have now been educated in the "Uh, huh, them **gg*rs just love them some watermelon!" stereotype where they wouldn't have been before. To them, they would have looked at the picture and noticed what fun the girl appeared to be having. Now, the evil is passed on.

There will always be racists in the world. Every race has its biases. Every potbellied, cigar-smoking, Southern newspaper editor (stereotype) isn't always going to be on the "up and up" about race, but maybe, just maybe this time one tried. Maybe, he was being a sneaky smart-ass. Who cares? This girl got a nice picture in the paper out of it.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #77
79. There was a simple solution to the problem
as discussed earlier

Include pictures of other children of other races eating watermelon.

Then the whole issue is innocent. If there had been multiple pictures of various ethnicties, I wouldn't have given it a second thought.
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Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #79
84. Why is it a "problem?"
It's not a problem.

Ok, I'll have one more go at it and I'm done with the subject...

Four, or five, "good ol' boys" are sitting out on a bench in front of the corner store. (Stereotype) One's whittling, a couple are dozing, another's looking at the paper. As the paper reader is perusing he comes upon four pictures of kids eating watermelon at the park. There's a white kid, a black kid, a Hispanic kid and and Asian kid. Now, remember, he's a "good ol' boy," (which in my world, one of his stereotypical traits is he's a racist), and he leans over and nudges one of the dozers on the bench and says, "Look at this *igg*r kid eatin' her some watermelon!"

A racist is a racist is a racist. He doesn't care if there are other kids eating watermelon. Heck, his own kid could be sitting on the stoop next to him eating a piece right in front of his face and he'd still say the same thing. So do we deny this girl and her family her picture in the paper because of this fool?

Like I said earlier, I see a beautiful little girl eating a yummy melon, or you may see something else. Racism is in the eye of the bigot and whether we perceive our own bigotries, or not, we have them - as long as little girls eating watermelons cause a problem, we have them.
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #77
81. Educating people on the history of racist stereotypes is NOT
"passing the evil on." Raising awareness helps to counter racism, it does not perpetuate it.
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Used and Abused Donating Member (401 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #64
95. that is the troubling part
That the producers thought it might not be a good idea but did it anyway. I could see if they thought nothing of it (i.e., just thought of it as a cute picture). Otherwise, it is a cute picture.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #61
68. maybe you should ask him eom
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Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #68
80. I did. Here's his answer.
I sent him a link to the thread via AIM. Here's what he has to say:

"Some people need something to do in life. prejudice exist deal with it, and pick your battles. Don't perceive a battle when none is there. Great picture"

and he goes on...

"I want know if the melon is sweet, or did she have to put salt on it to bring out the sweet taste"

****************************

There you go. Just one black guy's opinion. I'm sure you can find one with a different point of view. They don't all think the same, you know. (Sorry, I couldn't resist the joke.)
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #80
89. I'm not picking a battle
just posing a question, which has resulted in answers I have found very instructive. :)

Thanks for taking the time to explain your views.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #80
100. clearly other black people don't agree
from the blog entries. another black person's opinion: the editors chose the pictures to attract attention to their paper. it worked, of course.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
51. an interesting story from one of the blog entries
Edited on Fri Aug-12-05 05:26 PM by noiretblu
The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission in Birmingham on Thursday sued Tyson Foods after two black employees claimed someone at the company's Ashland plant posted a "whites only" sign on a bathroom.

The federal lawsuit, EEOC vs. Tyson Foods Inc., was assigned to U.S. District Judge Karon Bowdre. It alleges that Springdale, Ark.-based Tyson violated the civil rights of the two plaintiffs, Henry Adams and Leon Walker, along with other black employees.

The lawsuit says Adams and Walker were subjected to discriminatory behavior by Tyson management who had employees lock a bathroom, with one worker posting a hand-written sign and then a computer-printed sign saying first "out of order" then "whites only" with keys to the room distributed only to white employees.

http://www.al.com/business/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/business/1123838619259410.xml&coll=2#continue
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. Ah, you see why
I am troubled.

In NC we have Frank Perdue to abuse our minorities.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. yes, i understand
Edited on Fri Aug-12-05 05:40 PM by noiretblu
i don't think some people know how common those stereotypical depictions were at one time. i'm not sure how i feel about the pics, but they could have defused the entire drama by showing pics of other kids too.
reminds me of a cover and story a magazine i worked at decided to run about OJ...overruling the objections of the people of color and the women on staff. it was during the time that newsweek or time got in hot water for doctoring an OJ photo...to make him look more menacing, and the depiction they ran...plus the terrible story that accompanied it was just pathetic. they thought they were being "cutting-edge," but in reality, it was just offensive and clueless.
they got a zillion letters, phone calls, and they even got picketed.
:shrug: it was great publicity for them :eyes: and this in was san francisco, ca, btw
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VOX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
53. The pic is terrific. But IMO there is a negative association... <<PICS>>
Edited on Fri Aug-12-05 05:27 PM by KrazyKat
based upon American history that must be overcome to see the photo for what it is: a beautiful little girl just having a good time.

Edited to add these images from bleaker times in this regard:


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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #53
60. Maybe it's because I'm OLD enough to recall the horrible racial stereotype
... that I tend to go "Huh?!?!" when I see such a photo published. I wonder if the same newspaper takes as much care (and "discussion") when depicting blacks as doctors, scientists, and artists (other than as pop entertainers) -- or do they just "happen" (by chance, of course) to only depict whites in such roles in relation to some story?
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sepia_steel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
57. we can't hide from
ordinary people doing everyday things. There shouldn't be a stigma about this. There are definitely things that are done in poor taste, but this is a little girl having some watermelon. I think it's a little backwards to read anything else into it, especially on her behalf. Not trying to offend, I can get sorta passionate. But I don't see that eating something in a picture is something that anyone should feel the need to be defended from - that takes us backwards. I can understand why they had a discussion and printed it anyway, because I'd have done the same thing.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
58. I'm from the South and I am appalled. Photos of anglo, latino and black.
Edited on Fri Aug-12-05 05:31 PM by McCamy Taylor
eating watermelon would have been much better than this "summer fun" which is actually one of the oldest con jobs in the book. Photos which claim to show that the South keeps its freed slaves content by providing them the simple pleasures of life which is all that simple people like them are supposed to desire for happiness, they being lower on the evolutionary tree according the White Southern Way of thinking.

It must be nice to have grown up in some part of the country where a photo of a little girl eating watermelon is just a photo of a little girl eating watermelon, but do not be fooled. The SOBs who chose to run this picture knew exactly what they were doing. They were flexing their political muscle. That precious little comment "I naively look forward to a time when the stereotypes are not such raw memories" is Nice Southern Speak for "Slavery Ended A Hundred Years Ago, Get over it!" BUt you can bet that asshole has never had a store employee follow him around because of the color of his skin or had a teacher assume he wasnt college material or been pulled over by a cop for racial profiling.

As one who grew up in the South, it can be a really nasty, evil spirited place. That is why I spend all my time exclusively in the heart of the big cities, Houston, New Orleans, Dallas, Atlanta, Austin(except when I am forced to visit Crawford, Texas lol), places that are less toxic than the smaller communities.
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #58
62. well said.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
63.  I want some. Pass the salt!
What kid, young or old does not like watermelon?

I suppose it "could" be racist- but I'm not feeling that from this pic.
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FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
66. The very fact that they had to discuss the racial overtones
makes the decision to go ahead and run it all the more curious. What the hell did their editorial board decide? "So what if a couple uppity, sensitive Negroes get the vapors? It's summer fun!"

Oblivious doesn't begin to describe this nonsense.
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CBGLuthier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
69. Actually I would bet
Most younger people do not remember this stupid stereotype. It is old and not seen much any more.

So if we would let it go then we can just enjoy the picture and not have "our" daily dose of white guilt.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. guilt is self-serving
maybe, for once, it's not about you.
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CBGLuthier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #70
98. Say What?
I have no idea what you are trying to say.

I put the word "our" in quotes becuase I sure as fucking hell don't suffer from white guilt because I am not white.

I would try to reply more cogently to your reply but I am still trying to figure it out.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #98
101. sorry...i did make an assumption
Edited on Sat Aug-13-05 02:41 PM by noiretblu
because the term "white guilt" is dismissive, and often inaccurate, as used by some. "white guilt" is like masturbation...the only person who gets a benefit from it is the person doing it. except voyeurs, i suppose ;)
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
73. Oh my god that's right here.
I'm in Jamestown. NC. Shit what idiots
(I don't subscribe to the news & fishwrap)
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #73
76. I have a friend who's an editor at the N&R (not that section)
and he's appalled.

BTW, I live just outside of Jamestown, near Henry James BBQ. :)

The N&R is the clsoest thing we have to a liberal newspaper, which is just sad.
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. Maybe we should mull doing something about that?
Slowly; but in a few months I may just have some disposable investment capital. I certainly don't mean anything hugel; but a counter to that Rino would be nice, don'tcha think? Maybe enlist the help of a few students from UNCG and Guilford College? Put it on the back burner and let it stew; let me know.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #78
90. Definitely something to discuss!
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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
82. I went to a Univ. with a fairly large number of African American students
When I was in school (over a decade ago), the school paper neglected to do a story on the winner of the African American Homecoming Queen contest (or something like that). Naturally, they got a lot of flack for it, so they ran an editorial saying that they were a newspaper, they printed news, and the winner of the winner of the African American Homecoming Queen contest was not news.

The kicker? On the front page of that day's paper was a huge picture of the pumpkin that won the dorm carving contest.

I guess "compellingly newsworthy" is a matter of opinion. :eyes:
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SkyIsGrey Donating Member (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
83. For the people in the shi**y seats
Look at it this way. Would it be appropo to start talking to someone of Jewish descent about Germany's past, say around 1930-1940's, and be like totally ignorant of what occurred, and rail on about the Autobahn, Rocket technology,and what have you, and not expect some kind of reaction.
Granted this is not the same as what occurred with this article, but the blind ignorance of the past still applies. That this is a bad move on the Newspapers part. It is not just a cute little girl eating watermelon, it is a Big Stereotype, that a lot of people are still sensitive too.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
87. NOT printing the picture would be worse, IMO.
This is different from a stereotype that is inherently insulting--e.g., certain racial groups as lazy or thieving. Any images that portray something like that should definitely go.

But this is different. There is nothing that should be insulting about a little girl eating watermelon. IMO tiptoeing around the picture keeps the stereotype and its racist implications alive.

Printing the picture denies the stereotype and should be encouraged.
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Catholic Sensation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
92. no
do you look to be offended?
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KarenInMA Donating Member (821 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
96. No. people under 20 would think, summer=watermelon
and not even notice what color she was.

I'm the whitest little white girl ( as evidenced by my miserable, 20 minutes OUTSIDE sunburn), and I love me some watermelon.


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DivinBreuvage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
97. What's the racial makeup of the city in which this paper is published?
If it's predominantly black, it seems to me to make more sense to show a black girl rather than a white girl.

If it's predominantly white, maybe not so much given the legacy of the imagery.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
102. Glad 20 somethings dont remember. Us 40 somethings do.
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