I Suggest We Jack Up The Taxes On Gasoline To Pay For The Oil War!

[DistressedAmerican]

We should just jack up the taxes on gas a dollar or two a gallon to cover the costs of the Iraq war.

It just hit me that this would be one great way to make those that need the oil we are stealing pay for the war we are using to steal it. They are the folks that are using the stuff. Let them pay for this disaster. Why borrow the money and rape us ALL for it later? Hummer drivers SHOULD pay more.

Pay as you go!

It would have a couple of additional positive benefits. First, it would remind America why we are fighting over there. Let's stop lying about it. Just fucking admit we need the oil. A nice tax would be a good way to remind folks.

Second, it would reduce our use of gasoline. Jack up the cost 2 bucks a gallon and I bet people would get really interested in fuel efficient cars. That would reduce our need for oil. Maybe we could pull out after we stole just half of their oil. That would be better than taking it all.

I know it would screw the economy up a bit. We would adjust. Hey, could it screw up the economy than this war? This presidency? Nah. We'd adjust pretty fast.

I see this as a win, win, win kind of proposal.

Wadda ya think?

[many a good man]

1. Tax oil company profits instead

High gas prices are already hurting regular people.

[xray s]

2. and military contractor profits

it's the least they can do.

[DistressedAmerican]

7. Tax The Fuck Out Of Them TOO!

But if the people do not feel the pain. They will never care at all.

[sintax]

10. US has lowest gas prices of "industrial" world

Read "industrial" as overdeveloped colonial countries.

The real cost of gas is our air-water-land-health, in short our lives. The problem is we are hooked with no way out at the moment. If priced appropriately gas would be at least $5.00/gallon in US.

Mass grass roots movement for mass transportation.

[DistressedAmerican]

15. Sure, The Saudis Sell It To Asia At Vastly Inflated Prices So We can Get

it cheap.

Our low gas proices are nothing but a reflection of the ongoing dealings between Bushco and The Saudi Royals. It is theft and corruption to the core.

We are raping the world so that Bushco and the Saudis can get rich while we drive and drive.

[TX VN VET]

18. Mass transit is great but not all can use it

I am in construction and there is no way I could carry all my tools on a bus etc. Also the jobs I work on are in a fifty mile radius of where I live. For example, let's say my average drive to work is 25 miles. My 3/4 ton truck gets around 15 miles per gallon, I hate that part but I need my truck to carry tools and material. That's 250 miles per week just to drive to work and pro ably more like like 340 when you add trips to the lumber company. That translates into about 23 gallons or $115 dollars a week.
At $15 an hour that is close to 20% of my pre tax earnings just for fuel. There must be a better way to tax the rich without hurting the working man.

[DistressedAmerican]

20. Well, Let's just stick our kids with the burden then...

This is not about taxing the rich. This is about being honest about this rediculous debt. I can no longer justify making future generations pay for our lifestyle anymore.

I hear what you are saying. But, our kids are going to be more screwed that we are if we do not get real NOW.

[TX VN VET]

38. Kids

I know what you are saying, but if I cannot feed my kids now they will not be alive to be more screwed than we are. Your idea to raise gas taxes only hurts the common man and solves nothing.

[many a good man]

63. Price of gas is linked to costs of Empire

The gas prices we see at the pump are subsidized by your tax dollars. The main mission of the US military is to protect the flow of oil required for our high-consumption economy. Military spending comprises about half your federal income tax bill. For me that's many times more than what I pay at the pump.

[LiviaOlivia]

3. Not with the GOP in control

They are murderers and thieves. The money would go to all the wrong places like their pockets or some cornhole congressional district boondoggle.

[KarenInMA]

4. Yay!!!!!!!! Me too!! Carpool bitches!!!!

[Mnemosyne]

5. Are you poor? n/t

[DistressedAmerican]

6. Poor Grad Student. Yes.

[Mnemosyne]

8. A tax like that would totally annihilate my small town.

Most of the town (possibly up to 65%) have to commute to work up to 30 to 40 miles one way. Many share rides and with wages as they are, avg. $8.50, housing, food, etc. there will be people living in the streets, even here, if such a tax were enacted. It will be bad enough when the gas itself hits $5.00.

Just my opinion, bad idea.

[DistressedAmerican]

14. I Bet That Would Make A Lot Of Them Reconsider This War.

You will all be paying for it in the end. You do realize that, right? They will be screwing you for the cost in the end. The debilitating effects on the economy will still be there.

This is one way to make the pain of the war affect average Americans. As long as they feel no pain, they will not oppose this oil war.

[Mnemosyne]

16. I understand that DA, I just want to see the enormous suffering

that is coming to be postponed somehow. Everyone I know HATES * and voted against him. They are stretched to the limits and have NOTHING left to cut back on. They couldn't get together money for a ticket to Crawford, they can barely afford to get the 40 miles to work. Their savings are gone and they carry almost no debt.
We need to take to the streets, I agree, but the horrendous suffering I feel is coming here needn't be rushed if unnecessary. There is too much suffering on the Earth as it is now. Why would anyone wish for more?

[DistressedAmerican]

17. Don't You See That Is The Problem. Everyone Thinks We Should

delay the economic impacts. Our children are born right now carrying a $25,000 portion of our current national debt. That number is going up every day in large part due to the war. I don't think it wise or sound financial thinking to just keep borrowing.

It has real everyday effects as well. Your interest rates on mortgages and car loans are higher because of the debt. The dollar is weakening daily reducing its value. We are paying NOW just in covert ways.

Lets just get honest and pay for what we are spending so that our kids do not have to. We have to be realists and face this problem. it is getting worse every day.

My daughter is going to suffer for a war that she was born during for years to come. We can not keep doing that.

Individuals get their credit cut off. Our government just keeps taking out loans (from other countries) that she and everyone will be paying on and suffering from for years. I can't believe anyone thinks that is sound fiscal policy.

[Mnemosyne]

61. You keep saying WE, well maybe it's YOUR lifestyle

that our kids will suffer for, but it's NOT mine.
I am disabled and live on $600 a month. I drive a 10 year old car (less than 200 miles a month usually and live in a $28,000 home that needs much work that I will NEVER be able to afford to do).
When I was in the workforce, I didn't live much "higher on the hog". I have spent my life trying to have the least impact on our environment and economy as possible. Even when I was married and my husband was making $100,000 a year I used my brain and lived frugally.
I'm tired of being held responsible for those that live their lives in greed and selfishness, never thinking of the consequences of their actions or lifestyles on others or the Earth.
When you toss WE around, better look somewhere else, I have a clear conscience.

[DistressedAmerican]

62. Americans Collectively...

Fair enough though.

[Gildor Inglorion]

9. Agree 1,000%! Tax the hell out of gasoline!

}(

[TX VN VET]

11. Bad Idea

This would hurt the minimum wage folks more than the Hummer drivers. If you can afford a Hummer a couple of bucks more a gallon is no big deal. If you are forced to drive an old pickup that you need for your job another $40 a week takes groceries of your table

[punpirate]

12. All consumption taxes are regressive...

... and hurt the poor in far greater proportion than the wealthy.

It would reduce fuel use a bit, but not much, for one reason--public transit is in such a mess in this country that for many people, public transit--as a means of reducing commuting costs--isn't available.

The simplest way to reduce consumption is conservation, true, but Congress doesn't have the will to increase fleet mileage requirements and to include now-exempt large vehicles--that's the way to get conservation implemented within a few years and ensure its continuance for longer than that.

Most European countries have had high taxes on fuel for many years, and it hasn't diminished growth in demand, but the taxes have been used to subsidize public transit. That has not happened in this country to any significant extent. Without public transit infrastructure in place, your plan tells the working poor to starve or not have enough money to get to work.

Cheers.

[DistressedAmerican]

13. This is not about hurting the rich. It is about making Americans

understand the costs. Let American feel the pain a bit. They ignore this war because it costs them nothing that they can see (haven't gotten the bill yet). As long as we continue like this were average americans do not feel the pain of the war, they will never seriously oppose it.

That is what I am talking about.

Maybe we do need to starve Americans a bit. They are too damn comfortable right now.

[punpirate]

22. I didn't say it would hurt the rich...

... I said it would hurt the poor.

Your idea will starve the poor, not the rich. Now, if you had to drive 25-30 miles each way to earn six bucks an hour and had a couple of kids to feed, you'd feel it a lot more than the guy who can afford a Hummer.

Now, public transportation saves fuel, but this country hasn't invested in it nearly to the degree it should. Without that, your plan creates unnecessary harm for the people who can least afford it.

Historically, the major improvements in fuel economy in the last thirty years have come about due to increases in fleet mileage requirements. Moreover, if those requirements were set high enough, you'd see a considerable diminishment of the gas guzzlers--because they couldn't be sold in the quantities they are today without meeting the standards.

If the object is conservation, the gas tax won't accomplish it nearly to the degree you imagine. It hasn't in those places in Europe where such use taxes exist.

And, on edit, you imagine that creating severe hardship will somehow convince the public of the necessity to conserve or that they'll connect the war with the price of oil. With the right wing in charge and in control of the media, that message might well go out as the need to invade yet more countries with oil or those controlling its distribution routes. What if the country starts screaming for more invasions to bring down the price of gas?

Cheers.

[DistressedAmerican]

34. How About The Debt? Do You Want Your Kids Paying This Mess Off?

Look at the oil embargo years. Americans demanded more fuel efficiency and got it because gas was expensive. That had nothing to do with legislation of milage standards. it was pure supply and demand.

[punpirate]

53. Again, that's just a regressive tax.

The wealthy and big corporations are the principal beneficiaries of the tax cuts which have, in large part, caused the debt (that's not just true of now, but of the Reagan years, as well). The fair way to address the problem is to reverse those tax cuts and further increase taxes on the wealthy and corporations to make up the shortfall from which they've unfairly benefitted.

Now, why is it that you're married to this idea of a regressive tax which hurts the poor, but you don't even suggest an alternative such as the above. It's no less possible than forcing a draconian gas tax on people whose income has been flat or declining for thirty years, and who are already supplementing their income with debt.

If your concern is actually about the debt to be transferred to the next generation, why not treat the cause, not the symptom? There are two principal reasons for the debt being as it is. The progressive tax system was effectively destroyed in the early `80s along with huge tax cuts for influential corporations, and second, our defense spending has far exceeded the actual need, for no other reason than the desires of the M-I complex and the neo-conservatives.

Last, by law, the federal gasoline tax is for the sole use of highway improvement. By instituting such a tax, you're simply feeding fatcat Republicans money with which they can continue to buy influence and reelection in their districts (just have a look at what states and districts got most of the pork in the last highway bill).

If we reinstitute progressivism in the personal income tax structure and once again tax corporations as they were before the `80s, we put money into debt repayment and take money out of the pockets of the very wealthy who have been funding the right wing groups and politicians for these last thirty-odd years, and who have sought to steer public opinion in favor of the wealthy and of the authoritarians in government.

Cheers.

[JohnKleeb]

23. what the hell are you talking about

"Maybe we do need to starve Americans a bit. They are too damn comfortable right now."
I am curious to know have you starved yourself because of this war, you want to starve people because they're not thinking like you. And your original idea is nuts, jacking up the taxes on oil will affect the poor and those who aren't so fortunate. If you want people to be aware on why the war is wrong, then have them understand the human price of war not punishing them to make yourself look good.

[DistressedAmerican]

37. This Has Nothing To Do With Looking Good. This Is About Basic Economics

You and much of the rest of the country are living in a fantasy land. How often do you consider how your kids will be effected by our policies today? I do all the time now that I have a baby. She already owes a $25,000 share of the national debt.

Please tell me how you justify that?

[CelticWinter]

19. Im pissed off enough already

I cant cut back anymore than I already have. I fill my car ONCE a month, I dont go to movies, i dont use credit cards, i gorcery shop every two weeks, i make a losey 7 dollars an hour and i am in school. and no im not a youngster im 47 and this is the poorest i have ever been in my life. the only ppl this will hurt is ppl like me who because of shithead lost good paying jobs do you really think he gives a good goddamn what the price of gas is?

[Catholic Sensation]

21. Punish everyone for the crimes of the few

I hated it when teachers did this in school, and I hate it just as much now.

[DistressedAmerican]

24. We Are Punishing Our Kids Right Now.

National debt people. We are destroying the future so that we can drive inefficient cars now. Do you not see why that is wrong.

[Catholic Sensation]

33. There are other ways of getting the money for this war than

raising gas prices one or two dollars. Raising the taxes back to their 2000 levels, creating a system of small tariffs on goods coming into the country, eliminating loopholes for corporations and rich people to hide their revenues and incomes from american taxation. There are a plethora of ways to do this without punishing blue collar and regular people whose only "crime" is being in a country led by Bush.

[JohnKleeb]

26. no kidding

not to mention this affects the least fortunate more so than those who already are fianically safe.

[DistressedAmerican]

29. No One Is Addressing It. But, You Are Making Future Generations Pay

for your lifestyle. That is just plain wrong.

Someone needs to see the forrest for the trees. Take the long view and see what we are doing to our kids.

[JohnKleeb]

30. Yeah lets screw the poor

how "liberal" of you. You want to make people aware of the price of this fucking war, let them see the human face of it, fucking up their lives is just a bullshit thing to do. Do you even know how I live btw? Ill probably be in debt myself with in the 5-7 years. You dont know how I live. So who are you to assume that I am well off.

[DistressedAmerican]

32. Yeah Lets Screw Our Kids...

You are living in denial of a huge problem that will be effecting us for many years to come.

[JohnKleeb]

35. Denial?

Youre suggesting we jack up the oil price just to prove a point, thats absurd, you also suggested above that we starve America a little, have you ever been starved?

[DistressedAmerican]

39. Again I'll Ask You About The National Debt. You Keep Ignoring It.

Address the issue please.

[JohnKleeb]

41. I honestly think the best way to get rid of the national debt

would be to increase taxes on the wealthy. Get rid of the debt in a way that doesnt screw regular people.

[DistressedAmerican]

43. Well, At Least That Is One Approach. I'd Love To Tax Their Asses

to high heaven. Hell yes. There are some, who's wealth I would endorse seizing and redistributing right now. That would go a long way. There is a level of personal wealyth that no individual should be able to amass, especially while others are suffering.

But, there are a hell of a lot of Americans that continue to be needlessly wasteful. Shouldn't we try to do something about that as well?

Higher gas prices would force people to consume less. Theat is good envirinmentally and financially.

Thanks for addressing the core isse though.

[JohnKleeb]

47. Another thing would be to reduce the amount of omnibus

spending packages like the 87 billion dollar one for Iraq-Afghanstan. High Gas prices are why a lot of my peers have a hard time with money. If the Democratic party were to announce it supported an increase in gas prices just ro reduce the amount of driving, it wouldnt endear us to the American public at all. Another hting is that like it or not, this country is a driving society, now I dont drive but driving is an efficent way to get from place to place. Thats not say I dont think people should use the subway, bus, or etc if they have that alternative. Another thing we could stand to cut are these nuclear programs from the DoD, we dont use them anyway, most of them seem to me to be a relic of the cold war, yet they are pricy, so get rid of some of them, have a better tax system that favors the average American, and cut the use of spending expenditures like I mention above, and we can get out of debt. Another thing is should we again get a surplus not to give large tax cuts like this administration did.

[DistressedAmerican]

51. Open To All Suggestions. It Does Appear You At Least Recognize The

problem we face and that puts you light years ahead of most americans!

[Catholic Sensation]

49. no matter how wealthy someone is

the government and the people have absolutely NO right to take their wealth simply because they're rich. What you're advocating with that statement is government theivary, and pretty much an economic totalitarian state which would destroy this country economically as well as socially.

[Catholic Sensation]

40. his lifestyle? how do you know how he lives

he's a freaking 18 year old, and knowing him reasonably well, i doubt he's going around "rolling on dubs" with bling running off his neck throwin mad paper at random shit.

You too need to see the forrest for the trees. you're looking at the tree about the iraq war while neglecting to look at the other trees that our raising our national debt. there was a pork laden transportation bill which will cost the country at least 300 billion dollars. there was that ridiculous 2 trillion dollar medicare bill two years ago. how about focusing on these too instead of iraq?

[DistressedAmerican]

44. Our Collective American Lifestyle. Hey If He's Not Burning A Ton

of gas he won't be seroiusly impacted.

You knew full well what I was trying to say...

I am open to discussions of other ways to meet some of the same goals. Though those are subjects for other threads. This is about linking the cost of oil to the war that is primarily driven by oil.

[Catholic Sensation]

45. no because you directed at him

you didn't say "america's" you said "your". You're including him with every other american you believe is living some ultra comfortable lifestyle when most aren't. He may not burn a lot of gas, but maybe people close and important to him need to to go to work, run errands, etc. You're punishing the people who have traditionally made up the base of liberalism and the democratic party because you have some grudge against a small minority of americans who live comfortably and this wouldn't affect.

[DistressedAmerican]

50. Collective American Lifestyle. Now You Are Quite Clear On That Point.

This has nothing to do with a grudge against some small group. Americans on the whole are wasteful. We drive inefficient cars. And we prefer to borrow to cover OUR COLLECTIVE AMERICAN lifestyle at the expense of future generations that would probably also like to go to work, run errands etc.

[Catholic Sensation]

54. people have been screaming about this chicken little scenario

for decades and the system has corrected itself each time. With the massive spendings of Reagan, came the tax increases of Bush sr. and Clinton which created surpluses which helped pay down our national debt considerably.

Bush sr.'s record deficit was surpassed by Clinton's record surpluses. Have some faith in the country.

[DistressedAmerican]

56. To Quote The Bush Administration, "Regan Proved Deficits Don't Matter."

Yeah as long as Clinton comes along and bails it the hell out.

I am not assuming that will happen again. The debt is now at record levels. The situation is FAR WORSE than the mess that Clinton was able to clean up (BY PAYING FOR WHAT WE WERE SPENDING BY THE WAY).

I do not think we are talking about chicken little here. Sorry.

[Catholic Sensation]

58. You're proposing something that will crush the american economy now

tell me how does proposing something that could potentially cause people to go further into personal debt now make the future better for people later? So they can inherit the debts of their family, yeah instead of people paying more in income taxes in twenty years, they'll be paying VISA and Citibank instead. Sounds perfectly reasonable.

:eyes:

[DistressedAmerican]

60. Your Assumption That A Dollar Or Two More Per Gallon Would

"Crush the economy now" at best an exaggeration. We are a fairly robust economy. We can deal. Fiscal responsibility is what RESTORED the economy under Clinton. Some more of it now would go a long way to doing the same.

[JohnKleeb]

48. I dont burn any gas

I dont drive. I do see how this will affect other people though.

[ScamUSA.Com]

25. sorry man but if you're serious, thats not a good idea

You would simpy be putting more money in the pocket of the borg, directly hurting every american consumer...

illogical prospect my friend. maybe you can afford gas, or you have a car with good efficiency, but for the rest of us, we're already pushing the limit on gas prices.

[DistressedAmerican]

27. Your Kids Will Be Paying For Your Lifestyle. You Are Making The Choice

to expand the debt by resisting all efforts to pay NOW for what we are spending.

How can you justify that?

[ScamUSA.Com]

28. your grasp of economics is really hurting

so I dont believe this conversation will be fruitful if you're already convinced your idea is a good one.

[DistressedAmerican]

31. How About You Tell Me What I Am Missing.

My Father was an economics prof. I am pretty well versed. please tell me what you think I am mising. Then talk to me about the effects of the national deficit. That woulf be fruitful.

[ScamUSA.Com]

36. ok, out of respect to you I'll try to explain what I mean, but wont debate

Gas prices are already through the roof.

The average American is already hurting.

The war needs to stop.

Your premise is "I Suggest We Jack Up The Taxes On Gasoline To Pay For The Oil War!"

Putting the screws to the average American to pay for a bullshit war is double-fucked and doesn't solve any problem.

It certainly doesn't eliminate any long term impact because any additional money will get routed to Halliburton's pocket, etc.

Im with you on the civil liberties issues, etc, but this idea of yours just doesn't fly.

[DistressedAmerican]

42. Our Gas Prices Are Among The Lowest In The World.

Our economy is more robust than most in the world. I understand thwat the average American is hurting. But, I have also spent years working in Guatemala, Mexico, etc.

Our standard of living is far better than most of the world. We have gotten used to than comfort, so we keep borrowing to pay for it. We have to make some changes to the situation or the long term prospects are going to be devastating.

I suggest that we pay for the war. Stop borrowing to cover the cost. That is not crazy talk. Borrowing indefinitely is.

[ScamUSA.Com]

46. borrowing indefinitely is a major part of the crisis

However it wont be solved by raising taxes on gas.

You're right there are lifestyle issues involved. I often speak with my European friends and they're already at $5/gal. Their truckers already gridlock city intersections, but it doesn't effect the price of gas.

Economically speaking, it would have made sense to make Iraq pay for their own war, but for some reason the oil infrastructure in Iraq is still a mess.

This right here (and as you have brougt up) is the problem.


If a tax on gas would actually help it I might support it.. just doesn't seem like the right or complete solution.

Its a philosophical issue.. There is no real limit to Republican borrowing. You gotta figure most of the economy is straight up fake imaginary numbers. The scumbags running the show sure dont care about a few extra zeros here and there. Bush probably has a couple trillion in Swiss bank accounts, HIS kids can afford the national debt... assuming the world is even around in 50 years.

Fixing not running a balanced budget is truly a noble cause. Simply jacking up the gas tax to fund a bullshit war just doesn't do a thing. So next time Bush is requesting 100Bil from Congress, he'll just ask for 150Bil because the gas tax is now funding it... same shit, higher gas prices.

[DistressedAmerican]

55. Here's Something You May Like

A now very old graphic when the debt was just 300 billion dollars.



I agree that we should never trust these fucknuts with money decisions. But, the behavior of average Americans would change re consumption. Would that be a bad thing?

[ScamUSA.Com]

57. consumption change is happening now

Remember the Internet bubble? The same overinflated shit will happen with the Oil market.

I dunno if you drive or whatever, but it costs like $10 just to go visit a friend and $200 for a month of heating oil in the winter...

this crisis is happening now.

[DistressedAmerican]

59. America Still Have Some Of The Cheapest Fuel Prices In The World.

Guess we should thank the Bush/Saudi connection for that.

I do not think that change is happening as fast as you seem to think it is. Still a hell of a lot of SUV's running around.

BTW - My heating oil WAS totally fucking outageous this winter. I have never had oil heat before. Always electric or natural gas. Holy crap that stuff adds up. It was not so much the base price which was a bit high. Just out furnace is a million years old and sucks. We need a more efficient furnace big time. But I rent that will never happen.

To bad the oil war had not made oil cheaper, just oil company profits larger. That is the REAL crime.

I'd love to tax them to high hell. But, when I think about it, it is clear that they would just pass that cost right along to us anyway. Ends up being much the same thing.

[stepnw1f]

52. Great Idea (nt)