Movies going right wing?

[Rainbow gatherer]

I can't help but believe that the mood of the nation changed in regards to things like the death penalty due to movies like the Dirty Harry series in the 1970s. The courts are characterized as weak and pro criminal with the "hero" being a cop taking matters to the extreme.

Are movies going back to this? I just watched Sin City the other night and I believe the message is totally right wing. The "heros" dispense justice in ways that would make an Iranian court gasp. They are vigilanties who don't let anyone stand in their way -- and the machoism is well beyond even an Arnold movie.

Any thoughts or am I just imagining things?

[wli]

1. it's real, everything's been slanted to the right

Bear in mind things like P2 and Gladio were there to shift popular opinion to the right. P2 is even "Propaganda Due" (Italian words, "due" pronounced "doo-ay"). The idea being that Communism needed to be fought for some reason, so they manipulated public opinion to shift it to the right by propaganda, committing false flag terrorist attacks and blaming them on left-wing groups (P2 was caught doing this, and an agent confessed), and so on.

[girl gone mad]

2. I haven't seen Sin City...

but I would be surprised of Robert Rodriguez were a RWer. I don't know much about the comic...er, uh, Graphic Novel, but it doesn't seem very political in nature to me.

BTW, I saw Batman Begins and thought the underlying themes were very liberal. I was kind of (pleasantly) surprised.

[cprise]

3. 'Incredible' Propaganda

From a review of The Incredibles in the Guardian UK:


For a film made by a company that appears to have discovered some kind of magic formula, The Incredibles demonstrates an initially alarming willingness to dispense with everything Pixar has ever done before. Its main characters are all human. Its cinematography is sparer and simpler than anything the studio has previously produced; the film lasts two full hours and many shots are slow or completely still. The mood is darker, and more intense; unusually for a cartoon, peripheral characters actually die during some of the action scenes. But what will probably jolt viewers most of all is the Message.

Every Pixar film has a Message. But where Toy Story, Monsters Inc and Nemo explored themes of self-knowledge, or of growing into adulthood, The Incredibles is positively Nietszchean. Some people are just better than other people, it seems to say, and their resentful inferiors ought not to try to suppress them, but to let them shine.

When we meet The Incredibles - Mr Incredible (Craig Nelson), his wife Elastigirl (Holly Hunter) and their three children - they are languishing in dreary suburbia. A barrage of lawsuits have forced the world's superheroes out of business, and the government has forced them into anonymous lives in anonymous neighbourhoods, under a compulsory superhero relocation programme. They are banned from exercising their powers, so that Mr Incredible, known in regular life as Bob Parr, must toil as an insurance executive.

So far, so depressing - until, inevitably, a new threat emerges that requires the Incredibles once again to save the world as only they can. "When everyone is special, then no one is," the film's characters regularly note, ramming home its surprisingly elitist political message.

[Kipling]

9. I noticed that too.

The Incredibles really was all about Nietszcheanism/Randism: "some people are born best, and they should be in charge. Weakness is by definition evil and weak people deserve death".
The villain's ultimate aim is to give everyone superpowers. The heroes have to stop him so that they can still be "super" compared to others.
It was terrifyingly propogandist. Milton Friedman is smiling in his grave - well, coffin at least.

[iwantmycountryback]

31. Wow, people take movies WAY too seriously

I saw the Incredibles and I thought it was a pretty good movie. Didn't see any kind of political message in it. Sometimes it's a good idea not to take your politics into every aspect of life.

[sweetheart]

42. subconscious propaganda

For every person who notices, 100 don't, and are drip fed the propaganda
without even a hiccup.

[cynatnite]

11. Wow...I never looked at the movie that way

I thought it was a throwback to the 50s in it's very appearance. The characters reminded me of the dolls and action figures sold in stores. Even the hair was that way. I thought it was visually impressive.

The message to me was more about how parents have over-indulged in raising their kids' self esteem to such a degree that they ALL think they're special. There is no middle ground and that being average is somehow unacceptable. There is nothing wrong with being average and it doesn't mean you are less because you are average.

The kids showed their self-esteem in every way. Dash thought he was better than everyone else and the girl (can't remember her name) thought she was less. It was two extremes on opposite sides of the same coin. A middle ground had to be found.

You also see the villian overcompensating for his need to be 'special', too. He hated who he was and hated being average.

The message is, yes, you have value, but you are no better and no less than anyone else.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

20. I actually posted about this "when everyone is special, no one is"

That really bothered me, because everyone IS special and unique. Not only that, it bothered me that Dash took pride in beating kids in a race. There is no honor in that. It's like a black belt kicking the shit out of a child on his first day of karate class and thinking he's great for it.

[cynatnite]

21. It's nothing like beating up another kid

It's a race. That's all and like most people, Dash wants to win and if you think back he took second place.

on edit: Dash learned, even though he was special, he wasn't too special to the degree that he shouldn't get punished when he did something wrong.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

23. But he is so far out of competition it isn't fair to the other kids.

Ok, it's like...if you gave a math test to a very intelligent kid and a below average intelligence kid. Would the victory achieved by the intelligent kid be a surprise to anyone? Would it have ANY honor? No. The only thing it would do was make the other kid feel bad about himself in a contest that was never fair to begin with.

It's the reason that college kids don't race with first graders.

[cynatnite]

26. This is capabilities we're talking about...has nothing to do with honor

The math test would be an indication of who is more apt in that area. The 'less intelligent kid' could be far superior in reading comprehension than the 'smart one'.

The only lack of honor there would be is if the 'smarter' one cheated.

Oh, and the college kids racing against first graders is a really poor analagy.

[cprise]

28. Mmm. I dunno if that helps...

Putting the below avg. intelligence kid in a different class can also be harmful.

In some other leading countries, it is common to put the bright kids in charge of helping the underperformers in the same class. Over time, what you find is that not only do bright/dim kids often switch roles over the years, but they grow up better equipped to run a cooperative society.

Obviously there is more natural ability involved in athletics, but unless someone is disabled then performance has more to do with what sport you pick and your level of dedication.

[Rainbow gatherer]

29. I can see that with Incredibles.

[Rainbow gatherer]

4. Then there's War of the Worlds...

Those from the outside will kill you. Seems a lot like the movies of the 1950s in which the invaders were metaphores for communist Russians/Chinese.

[Kipling]

10. I think you misunderstood that.

War of the Worlds was originally written with the message "Do not invade other people. Look, it would be bad if another species did it to us, so why do it to one another?". HG Wells, the writer, was a socialist pacifist.

[sweetheart]

43. The latest tom cruize film was disgusting propaganda

It was a police state movie that sold a POV on human unity only in the
face of overwhelming alien invasion... and then it's everyone out for
their family or insular family unit.

War of the Worlds in the DU films:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=254x4615

[cynatnite]

5. It's good vs. evil

It has been used to the extreme for years. Whenever a movie is based on that theme, for the most part the directors or writers will add extreme elements for the purpose of manipulating their audience. They want the audience to cheer for the 'hero' and boo the 'villain'.

Adding things such as corruption, malevolence and other negative characteristics will get the audience to hate the bad guy that much more...it pushes them to want the good guy to win against the odds. On that same end, they'll add elements to get the viewer to like the protagonist more and some of those can go to the extreme as well.

I don't think you're imagining things...I think you're seeing more lame attempts at the movie industry to get people in the theater. It's classic audience manipulation.

[Solomon]

6. That's why I always hated the reality "cop" shows on tv.

As a lawyer, I saw them continually violating peoples rights on those shows. They desensitize americans so that we accept that it's right.

After all, those dirty criminals deserve it, don't they?

[cynatnite]

8. But most American's aren't lawyers

Their legal education usually comes in the form of legal dramas and 'Cops' so they won't have the advantage of knowing how someone's rights are being violated.

[cprise]

12. Not only that, they're always "Oh look they were right after all."

Do you think they're likely to show those instances when the police illegally accost and search people.... then find nothing?

Ha.

And it all follows a common theme: Average people on the street are stupid/greedy/dangerous. Whether they're being shown on Survivor, or COPS, or Who Wants To Gold-Dig A Millionaire?, or Po Ugly Bimos We Turned Into Nice People With Plastic Surgury.

Someone very badly wants us to hate our fellow human beings... or at least have TV reflect their nasty views of what the average American is like.

[cynatnite]

13. They want to make money

Whether they have to exploit the less than educated, naive or even themselves, they'd do it in a heartbeat. It's all about greed and who gives a damn about their fellow human being or their lack of integrity.

[cprise]

15. When most of your stock is owned by the ultra-wealthy

...which is the case with most corps now, then you are working for people who have come to feel they have everything in the world to lose because they have almost all the wealth.

That makes them very nervous and they start prioritizing CONTROL and SECURITY over all else. They become either highly uncomfortable with or dead-set against egalitarian values. They start stressing heirarchy and organic models of society (i.e. only the individual, then family, then tribe exist; whereas society is a deception)... because those are all that people have left.

This is a large element of fascism.

[Solon]

35. Actually I like L&O for the opposite reason...

Now, I'm not an expert in law, and I DON'T expect to get a lawyer's education from that show, however, there are some things about it I like. First, neither police nor prosecutors are perfect, sometimes an innocent suspect is convicted(sometimes to be released later in a season, sometimes not), or a guilty suspect goes free. But it is NOT like Matlock, as an example, but actually has an uncertainity about it that I like. Granted, lately I HATE the asshole running the procecutors office(forgot the SOBs name BTW) but McCoy I like, sometimes. He's no radical rightwinger on the show unlike his boss, that's for sure.

[eShirl]

7. "going back" ? they never left.

Hollywood isn't right wing or left wing, it's mercenary. they will make more of whatever type movies made the most money recently.

[cprise]

14. The plot could have been arranged in a much more civil manner

...and their profits probably would have been slightly better for it.

Not like people are often picking movies for their ideology anyway. They go for the effects, action, and interpersonal emotive qualities (for a movie in this genre.)

[cprise]

16. That Howard Hughes movie was also right wing

It was very back-handed to the Hepburns incl. a sanctimonious verbal smackdown of what was portrayed as a family of silly, two-faced socialists. Yes they are explicitly attacked for being socialist, and made to look defeated asshols by the end of the scene.

Then there is the whole subplot involving PanAm and Congress. It didn't reveal that Hughes played nasty lobbyist as well, and portrayed Congress' intent as a desire to establish a monopoly. It conveniently left out that having to compete with British Airways, Air France, Quantas, etc. is NOT a monopoly situation. It also left out that those airlines mopped the floor with the American brands in the subsequent decades (probably because the latter group amounted cannibalistic infighting).

It didn't show what most of Hughes' adult life was like (Kleenex cartons for shoes and broken heroine needle tips sticking out of his arms).

There was the repeated theme that throwing more and more money at a person like him was a Good Thing (TM).

So in short it was a very biased capitalist hero-worship piece, with some very good acting and effects.

[JackDragna]

17. Trust me - Sin City is NOT right wing.

In case you missed it, the movie glorifies a group of hookers who stand up for themselves in the face of city corruption and intrusions by the local syndicate. As far as going "beyond the law," it doesn't make a very interesting story when the cops just putter along with police procedure to fight crime. The whole point of "Sin City" is that the corruption in the city is intractable and cannot be fought by ordinary means. In many ways, I cannot think of a more leftist sentiment. You're looking too deep into your entertainment.

[cprise]

19. By your description, its anti-urban and pro-vigilante.

And I couldn't disagree more with your conclusion.

As a gay man who's been around (and out) for some time, I remember what it was like to have police systematically lose police reports for some of the most heinous crimes against GLBT people... not to mention police harrassment. You know what? That isn't a problem in most areas anymore and the way it is now is WORLDS better than that miserable existence.

I agree with what happened at Stonewall. But it happened ONCE. I've met some of them personally and that is no way to live.

I think people who romanticize this sh!t ought to move to Iraq (and that means most libertarians).

[Rainbow gatherer]

30. Isn't that the message of some of those right wing novels...

that are popular with the militia movement? Urban society is corrupt, buy and know how to organize and use guns to defend your rights.

Also, isn't the way the big guy (sorry, forgot his name) goes after criminals and then finally kills them rather like the ultimate right wing dream of how to deal with crooks? The wolf scene was rather gruesome, don't you think?

[cprise]

18. Hotel Rwanda was propagandist in its timing, not overall message.

Why not a movie about genocide in E. Timor? After all, that is more closer to the American foreign policy experience.

But the E. Timor situation wasn't mishandled by FRENCH and BELGIAN state and business leaders... with a CANADIAN *UN* peacekeeper standing by through all the carnage. This is what we see in Hotel Rwanda: The evil begotten by EU and UN passivity against a backdrop of self-hatred caused by Belgian colonial racism.

Very convenient.

A person could walk out of that theater thinking she ought never again refrain from interfering abroad.

[fujiyama]

41. I find that pretty stupid

The genocide that occured in Rwanda is some of the worst in the last fifty years.

I don't know how a film that actually shows the US doing nothing as well to be propaganda in any ways. I think you're reaching for straws on this one.

And in that case, the EU and UN do deserve part of the blame as well. The UN has on many occasions shown itself to be absolutely unwilling or incapable of doing anything to stop genocide (partly due to the US lack of involvement and hostility).

[Swamp Rat]

22. What, mainstream, corporate Hollywood?

That genre just plain sucks. Furrin' films in other languages can good, or try Bollywood (much of it is in English, though with lots of Hindi and Bengali words). Cannes and Sundance have great selections too... or, make your own. :)

Maybe I should do one about the "Texass Chanisaw Pretzeldent." :D

[Boredtodeath]

24. Going? Ever seen "Rambo?"

Rambo 1 through 500 maybe?

Or Chuck Norris films?

Or Steven Segal?

We raise our children on this trash and wonder why they go to school and shoot up the place!

Then, we have the termerity to be "surprised" when boys play Rambo over and over again in thier imagination - then act on it.

What was Columbine except the Rambo mentality of David vs. Goliath and one man getting even with bullies?

[Bosso 63]

25. Red Dawn

This movie is a classic. If you want a right wing "fantasy", this is my pick. It shows that children should have guns and liberals should be shot. Red Dawn is so over the top, I kinda like it.

[cynatnite]

27. I like Red Dawn...Patrick Swayze was hot

Yeah, it's way over the top and I think it fed into the good vs. evil and us vs. them mentality we all had at the time.

In some ways I do believe society evolved past that. The Day After with Jason Robards proves it to me. Yes, there are still those action packed movies with the whole 'we gotta kick their ass or they'll kill us' mentality, but for the most part audiences recognize them for what they are.

It's why those action movies with Stallone and other action celebs don't make the money they used to. People are tired of the repetitiveness and recycling of the same constant 'USA is the greatest' theme.

We'll still get them from time to time...Hollywood's gotta make a buck since there is still an audience for them even though it's not as big as what they'd like.

I do think we'll start seeing more realistic Iraq war assocaited entertainment. 'Over There' comes to mind. We watched it once here and I thought it was okay. No big political message and it stayed with the individual soldiers and their struggles.

[Solon]

32. Just wait for V for Vendetta to come out...

I saw a preview, it is probably the most anti-fascist film coming out this year or so.

[Warren DeMontague]

33. Right Wing, Left Wing, My take on "Sin City" was that it was like being

beaten bloody for two hours with a raw steak.

I'm no prude, but even for the "let's be so over-the-top gratuitous the critics will consider it irony" genre, this thing was just too much. Visually, it was interesting, but the content was just poop. There's only so many graphic cartoon mutilations I can deal with, after about #40 it gets tiresome.

And this is from someone who thought "Pulp Fiction" was the easily best movie of '94.

I guess I'm getting old.

[all.of.me]

34. i don't watch tv, but i have noticed that....

....there is a LOT of emphasis on the military. i was passing through my daughter's room the other day and saw a commercial for a cartoon movie with little birds dressed in military outfits - like donald duck does iraq. of course, the military is the hero here.

i also saw part of a commercial (can't remember what for) that had a definite right wing slant to it, pro military.

now... i USED TO watch tv, and i don't remember anything quite this blatant. hmmmm..... can you say propaganda? how about brainwashing? ugh. what the kids are growing up with makes me sick. i'm in a constant battle to undo everything the tv does to their sweet little brains.

[Rainbow gatherer]

36. What do people here think of "24"?

Liberal or conservative?

[lildreamer316]

38. Very alarmist.

Oh! Look! Lets! Keep! You! On! Edge! For! Every! MInuite! Of! The! Show!
Hence its condensed timeline. Defintately serves the 9/11 worryists (not a word I know)

[fujiyama]

39. I find it an entertaining show *spoilers below*

It's relatively well written and keeps the suspense. I've seen all three seasons and I'll explain what I've noticed over the last few seasons.

As for the show's political agenda, it's been varied. The first season was not very political, mostly about a war criminal from Serbia trying to kill Bauer (Sutherland) and the first black presidential candidate, Palmer (who is shown to be a democrat) because they had targetted him for assassination but end up killing his family accidentally. In that light, a somewhat liberal democrat was portrayed as the moral authority and the issue of blow back is discussed. The same continued in the second season, showing Palmer trying to do his best defending the US. Atleast it wasn't very blatant in portraying liberals as wusses.

The second season had what some might argue, a "liberal" theme. It was about American oil barons and rogue military agents in cahoots with Islamic terrorists trying to set a nuke off in LA, then trying to start a war based on false pretenses. The president and Bauer both are shown as the "good guys" trying to discover the truth.

The third season features an ex MI-6 agent that goes nuts and tries releasing a virus.

The fourth is where the show has a somewhat blatant political agenda. At times it did really piss me off and make me cringe. The son of the Defense Sec (a puke) is portrayed as a far left stoner and ends up being gay, inadvertantly "helping" the terrorists, by spending the night with one. The show also defends the use of torture, which had been used in prior seasons but not quite as blatantly. An American is accused of helping one of the terrorists is taken for "interrogation" (basically torture). The man is about to be beaten, but then the mastermind calls "Amnesty Global" (Gee who does that sound like) and then they rush to defend the man. The show then spouts some RW talking points about how the information has to be brought out of him.

At the same time, the season portrays defense contractors in a somewhat poor light, showing them to have sold arms to terrorists.

So, as you can see, yes there is a bit of that paranoid "Oh my God we're going to get killed" aspect, but Muslims aren't always shown to be the bad guys. Just as often, it's white people...But the defense of torture is what bugs me about the show...and that aspect is somewhat blatant.

[fujiyama]

40. I think you're thinking of that pigeon movie

It's about some birds in WWII...I guess the birds are shown to be French and British fighting Nazis.

I don't think fighting Nazis is political propaganda, though I do understand where you are coming from regarding the militaristic themes.

But I wouldn't say it's necessarily getting any worse though. I grew up on GI-Joe, but turned out fine...though I would have to agree that that was propaganda at its finest.

[cprise]

37. "Over There" - New TV Series

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=6798

Barely two minutes into the premiere episode of Over There, Steven Bochco's gritty television series about soldiers fighting in the Iraq war, and already the myth of the "stab in the back" – the nutty idea that we are, somehow, not being allowed to win by pansy generals and public relations hacks – had reared its ugly and all-too-familiar head. The Americans are moving in on a mosque that is chock-full of insurgents, taking fire, while "Sergeant Scream" – AKA Chris Silas, played by Erik Palladino – is bellowing at his troops that he's being kept in Iraq for an extra 90-day stint. All the while they're being pinned down by enemy fire, he's complaining that they aren't allowed to just go in there and blow everyone to smithereens "because al-Jazeera has a reporter in there" and "some general 1,000 miles away" is more concerned with "public relations" than with winning the war.

Sergeant Scream's ranting rages continue throughout episode one, and, one suspects, throughout the series, although we are soon no doubt to be clued in that he really has a heart of gold. This rapid-fire stream of abuse, self-pity, and untrammeled rage is echoed – albeit less harshly – by the rest of the platoon, all freshly recruited to our noble Iraqi enterprise. These people are constantly talking – even as they're blowing apart insurgents, taking enemy fire, slinking through the desert, or just hanging out back at their base. The chatter is incessant, like the sound of cicadas in summer, and always about the same subject: their lives, their troubles, their cliché-ridden histories. What few Iraqis we see are merely stick figures waiting to be mowed down, moving through the garish yellow of the desert like zombies in Night of the Living Dead. This war might as well be taking place in an Arizona trailer park for all the characters seem to be aware of or even faintly curious about their surroundings. It isn't about Iraq, it's all about the Americans – their feelings, their class and ethnic divisions, and their endless narcissistic banter.

[Mairead]

44. Right wing? I don't think so. Right wing would be a 'soviet realism'

sort of thing in which the bad guys are the government or anarchists and the good guys work for the benefit of corporations. That would be right wing.

To me, the 'Dirty Harry' and similar films are all of a piece with films like 'Enemy of the State' -- an individual, fed up with corruption in high places, ignores bought-and-paid-for laws and hits back. That seems to me to be much more like anarchic socialism, in which every person has the responsibility to act on behalf of social justice.