Jesus: A Problem for the Christian Right

[ArthurRuger]

Today Jesus presents a problem for those at the forefront of conservative religious activism in America. Christ and his teachings have been and remain exceeding difficult to reconcile with the Bible-driven theology and philosophy proclaimed as a rationale for religious re-birth in this country.

This perhaps is the reason why Old Testament books such as Deuteronomy, Jeremiah and others are cited far more frequently than quotes from Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Furthermore, the bulk of scriptural verbal references are not made to Jesus (proclaimed by evangelicals to be God) but to the "God" of the Old Testament. This suggests that if Jesus is God as is commonly accepted today, then what God said in the Old Testament and what Jesus said in the New Testament come from the same single source.

However, God as quoted in the Old Testament is judgmental, harsh, punitive and a proponent of war and ethnic cleansing. You cannot find corresponding words and attitudes in what Jesus (God-become-mortal) taught as a spiritual foundation of living while mortal himself.

Aggressive Christian advocates and manipulators then quote "God" from the Old Testament while strongly implying that the New Testament Jesus, the "Living God," agrees with and approves their actions and assumptions.

Led by Reverend Falwell, Pat Robertson, James Dobson and other prominent televangelists, the gospel of Christ has been reframed. As Jerry, Pat and gang would have us believe, the following religious objectives of America are contained in the Gospel as they see it:

Empire and a long-term "war" on terror: Publicly proclaimed by their "Christian in the White House," these religious leaders would have you believe that Christ approves of aggressive and violent spreading of the American version of "freedom" much in the tradition of the War God of the Old Testament.

Jesus at no time ever proposed or commanded a "crusade" approach to global evangelizing, yet led by Mr. Bush, aggressive Christian supporters of the president are openly insisting that Jesus approves.

Changing the constitution: Without invoking the "God" of Exodus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, there is absolutely no acceptable rationale for changing the U.S. Constitution to reflect theological supremacy over the document. This is a serious reconciliation problem with Jesus' Gospel, typified by "render unto Caesar."

Issues around civil liberties, particularly those specified in both the Constitution and Declaration of Independence continue only as modern crusaders studiously ignore Jesus. If the judgmental and punitive "God" of the Old Testament spoke specifically against homosexuality and with rigid cruelty toward the rights and dignity of women, corresponding rigidity and cruelty are not found among the sayings of the Living-God, Jesus.

"Judge not" elevates the right to justifiably condemn cleanly out of the hands of mortals. The deliberate acts of acceptance and forgiveness far outweigh any pretended scriptural mandate to exclude, condemn, excommunicate or penalize those who do not measure up. Jesus, the Living God, did not forbid homosexuals to marry or prescribe or proscribe a woman's or man's right to choose. Without the "God" of Deuteronomy, Christian activism against the Constitution has no justifiable basis. Before encouraging activism, these dominionist Christians must justify themselves to all of us.

In the parable of the Prodigal Son, the Falwell/Robertson/Dobson Pharisee's are aptly portrayed by the older brother of that Prodigal and Jesus aptly fills the role of the forgiving Father.

Jesus and the poor: Privatizing government programs to assist the poor by assigning those duties to merchants who are then allowed to pursue profits before human well-being is not in the Bible anywhere. The Old Testament God says nothing about it and Jesus, The Living God, says everything against it.

The environment? Only by privately interpreting and defining the early words in Genesis about exercising dominion - and conveniently leaving out the commandment to Adam to literally "tend" the Garden - do today's Pharisee's successfully side-step accountability for the consequences of their political actions. Jesus, The Living God, did not say or imply that merchants have a blank check to exploit the ecology and environment. Had he done so, the early Christians could have justifiably plowed up the lilies of the fields and replaced them with commercial enterprises. Modern Christians would be told that to plow up the lily fields and dig oil wells or open-pit mines or build polluting factories would be doctrines of Jesus.

We cannot remain timid with these religious demagogues, for that is what they truly are and practice. They have not been timid with us, acting instead with brazenness based on some sort of religious intimidation. These are not gatekeepers for St. Peter, nor Promise Keepers for the Lord. They are in fact bluffing and in dealing with their angry rhetoric, many have wilted, stepped back and blindly allowed themselves to be led about like sheep.

In this regard, Paul was prophetic and his devious wolves have proven to be precisely the manipulators pretending to speak for Jesus to the masses.

We as Christians must stop the killing immediately. It is not up to George, Dick and Donald. It certainly is not up to Jerry, Pat and James.

What would Jesus expect from Christians?

Would it be helpful for Reverend Jerry Falwell to condemn and show horror at the killing, the violence and the hate on both sides of the ocean?

Or are we to be inspired toward peace when all we get from Reverend Jerry Falwell is the pompous proclamation that Bush should "Blow them away in the name of the Lord"

Would it be helpful for Pat Robertson to condemn and show horror at the killing, the violence and the hate on both sides of the ocean?

Mr. Robertson, as you once said about , "low and behold, people are dying." Well sir, in Iraq, human beings - citizens of many countries - are also dying violently, in much larger numbers and in a more powerfully moral violation. Military abortion-by-bombing is going on as this is read.

What are you going to do about it? Talk is cheap. Self-righteous pretentious talk is even cheaper. You owe it to all those who raise their hands and clap in awe when you bluster.

I ask you in the name of God and the Christ of Compassion, Pat Robertson:

What are you going to do about the killing?

Would it be helpful for James Dobson, PhD to condemn and show horror at the killing, the violence and the hate on both sides of the ocean?

Or are we inspired toward peace when all we get from James Dobson is the pompous proclamation that "So you could have polygamy. You could have incest. You could have marriage between a father and a daughter. You could have two widows, or two sisters or two brothers."

These three prominent Pharisees passionately played a powerful role in persuading millions of voters that the spirituality of George Bush was focused on the highest Christian values.

Between all those mind-washed voters and the indisputable major voting fraud in Ohio and Florida, we are left with not only their evangelical public hypocrisy but an American tragedy in the making in which they and George will be the least hurt and the most guilty.

Recommended link: Carolyn Baker in The Dissident Voice: Dominionist Dementia - What’s Jesus Got to Do With It? 12/20/2004. http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Dec2004/Ba...

[Dogmudgeon]

1. Good article!

But please, if it's not explicitly OK to post it all, cut it to 4 paragraphs and put in a link.

If it's OK to post the whole thing and there's a notice, copy the notice, too.

This keeps the lawyers away.

Thanks!

--p!

[ArthurRuger]

21. Thanks for the info

The article is mine published earlier on my own site.

Hey, I'm new at this stuff on DU and going to be 59 in a week ... you have to make allowances for an old dodderer who doesn't know when enuf said is enuf said.

[Triana]

32. Great article...thank you.

Thanks for writing, sharing your thoughts and speaking out. If the article is yours, you can certainly post all of it you want! If articles are someone else's or from some other publication, they like to limit to 2-4 paragraphs so as to not violate copyright.

I'm bookmarking this thread for future reference. I'll look forward to reading more of yours, should you choose to post them.

Welcome to DU!

[tavalon]

35. That's your article and it's a good one

You aren't an old dodderer, you are insightful and laser sharp.

Welcome to DU!

[postulater]

2. Thanks for this post

Their hypocrisy is numbing.

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. You have to understand the mindset of these people. Their faith

is abll about how evil people are and how they have to have the right codewords (Jesus, salvation, Calvary) in order to get into heaven..that life on earth is only about getting into heaven and to Hell with the mess you leave behind.

[FlashHarry]

4. Absolutely. Cherry pick OT quotes. Ignore the NT.

Especially Matthew 5:38-9

Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Pretty much refutes the Old Testament on capital punishment, I'd say. And here I thought being a Christian meant following the teachings of Christ. Silly me.

[Clark2008]

8. And don't forget that the Beatitudes usurp the 10 Commandments.

1. Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
2. Blessed are the meek: for they shall posses the land.
3. Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted.
4. Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill.
5. Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
6. Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God.
7. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
8. Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

[FlashHarry]

11. You got it.

Not to mention, they've been occupying themselves with trying to squeeze a camel through the eye of a needle for years now.

[hootinholler]

44. Lot s O' Hungry and thirsty people these days. n/t

[kestrel91316]

45. Unfortunately, these days it seems as if being a "Christian" has

NOTHING to do with following the teachings of Christ and EVERYTHING to do with saying the magic Jesus passwords to get a free pass into heaven and permanent dispensation from good behavior.

We got two groups here: Christofascists, and Followers of Christ. By their fruits you shall know them.

[Ezlivin]

5. The first step is to adopt a Pauline theology

Christians move away from the teachings of Jesus by focusing on what Paul's interpretations of Jesus. All of the churches I belonged to (conservative SBC) spent way more time in the letters of Paul than they did in the Gospels.

[FlashHarry]

7. Interesting

Wasn't Paul/Saul a pretty hard-nosed guy before his conversion on the road to Damascus?

[Ezlivin]

19. Yes. He was an enemy of the nascent faith

He mentions this in his writings. He was not trusted by the early church because of this.

[I Have A Dream]

26. I think that Paul took Christianity away from its true path that Jesus...

prescribed. How differently (and how much better) the world would be if Paul never became a "Christian". He was the same kind of Christian that B* is, in my opinion.

[I Have A Dream]

24. I refuse to take anything that Paul said as the words or teachings of...

Jesus. I've never seen a word or action of Jesus that I didn't find amazing. Paul's teachings (at least as presented in the currently sanctioned Bible) are what caused the beautiful teachings of Jesus to be taken down into the gutter and are used to rationalize many of today's Chrisian religious problems as being OK. Jesus' message is extremely positive; Paul's teachings are extremely negative. Jesus' message is all about love; Paul's teachings are mostly about fear.

[Bluerthanblue]

30. oh i so agree-

while paul/saul had his place, using his words (or teachings) as being the 'will of god' or equivilent to Jesus, is the worst form of idolotry-

Did Jesus tell women to keep silent? Did he exhalt himself? not that i can see. Did he serve, and weep, and mourn, and sweat, and see to the needs of others AHEAD of his own? And what did he ask in return? not much.... just the company of his 'friends' in his last moments here on earth- and they fell asleep. and they denied him. at least Thomas was honest.- and Peter the bone headed blusterer...

i like the Jefferson Bible- ever read it?

[I Have A Dream]

31. No, I've never even heard of it.

I'll check it out. Thanks for the recommendation, Bluerthanblue! (By the way, I love your username.)

[Bluerthanblue]

33. here's a link-

the 'founding fathers' perspective is pretty telling-

http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/

(thanks, and ditto on your name-)

[kestrel91316]

46. You can always spot a Paulian by their attitude toward women.

[leesa]

6. Very good article. It is so sad that they have manipulated the teachings

of Jesus to allow the satisfaction of their own bloodlust and bigotry. I don't understand why they are unable to read the teachings of JC though and realize that is not what was said.

[ArthurRuger]

38. why our television evangelists cannot preach sermons with depth in them

The Bible remains valuable to me not because I go there to see "What the Bible says" but to explore what the Bible contains in more than one Biblical verse and how that combined commentary enlightens my thinking.

The spiritual construct of a spirit world where God fights spiritual warfare against Satan and where everything is ultimately good or evil is a false construct. We are handicapped by more than 2000 years of a Catholic Christian distortion of a Jewish reality already confused and grown lethal by the time Christ came.

When you look closely, slowly and with a serious attention to detail, you do not find Jesus teaching or supporting the Judgemental God of Spiritual Warfare whose sons and daughters are conscripts in an age-old battle with evil and a who-knows-from-where empowered Satan. You do not find Jesus teaching that we should be good because God will get us or let Satan have us in one final either or confrontation.

You will find however Jesus not just saying the words in some projected 21st century fundamentalist notion: "The Kingdom of God is Within You." You will find Jesus preaching that internal kingdom and "The Father and I are one," then trying to convey in conceivable and believable ways - "and so are you."

Jesus did not make nor announce himself to be the Incarnated Almighty God who appeared in subsequent Roman Christian theology after Nicea. Priestly political and arrogant exposition on New Testament writings created that whole concept of God.

Jesus' repudiation of the God of the Letter of the Law and declaration of the God of Compassion truly became lost in the shuffle of necesity for political survival. It was replaced with a Christianized form of the Letter of the Law Judaism against which Jesus preached.

We have inherited that construct now in the 21st century. What well-meaning but spiritually immature Christians have tended to do is hide behind the more simple acceptance of the myth of an inerrant Bible containing the once-spoken will of a Judgmental God who cannot tolerate sin with any degree of allowance; A god more interested in obedience than experience; a God limited to rewards or punishments as He presides over a conflict with Satan, giving lie to the literality of an Almighty God who cannot tolerate sin and evil with the least degree of allowance- because Satan just keeps on keeping on.

That circumstance is why our television evangelists cannot preach sermons with depth in them and are left to resorting to form and sizzle above substance.

[ismnotwasm]

9. As a non -Christian

It's one of my fondest hopes that those who exemplify the teachings of Jesus get their religion back. I know enough to know it must be absoutely horrifing to see the words spoken and deeds done in his name. Keep up the good fight!

[ArthurRuger]

39. Staying silent is not only looking the other way, but in fact implies cons

In the early 1990's, during my years as an active Mormon, I was posting online on Prodigy in an LDS message forum. In national news, an extremist Christian shot and killed an abortion doctor somewhere back east.

Now in the Book of Mormon there is an account of God commanding that Nephi, the "righteous" protagonist, kill a man who had charge of all the genealogical records in Jerusalem at the time.

The rationale was that it was "better that one man should die rather than a whole nation perish in disbelief."

One of the message board posters quoted that passage as a justification for he who had killed the abortion doctor.

I had always taken exception to that B of M story as being inconsistent with my understanding of Jesus' teaching and Mormon doctrine. But to my surprise, I encountered little support from other posters when I disagreed with him.

Sometimes we tend to be selective and choosing to look the other way rather than confronting something evil.

It's not unlike being part of a group around the water cooler where someone says something extremely vulgar and denigrating about another person.

Staying silent is not only looking the other way, but in fact implies consent.

I realize that none of us are Don Quixote charging every offensive or evil windmill that we find on our path so I suppose I'm willing to imply consent with my silence or refraining from comment concerning gnats - but not camels.

[DanCa]

10. Thank you for posting this to quote Springsteen

The right loves to "Take a god filled soul and fill it with devils and dust." I ve said it a million times before whatever sick thing this red god is that they worship it's not Jesus Christ. All's I know is that Jesus loves everyone and he doesn't care if thier gay, pro choice, american or muslim. Of course what do I know my gods a teacher and a healler he isn't the god of madness riches and war.

[ArthurRuger]

40. Christian "tolerance."

It seems to me that intolerance is not a virtue to be sought after. Disagreeing with everything from attitudes to actions is probably an natural and instinctive reaction when we encounter something we would not believe, say or do.

I know of many things, people, words and manners of speaking that I would not tolerate or would be intolerant-of in my home -and would take action to avoid their presence beforehand if possible or take action to remove them after the fact if possible.

Sometimes that kind of intolerance is the only pragmatic way to enjoy or even survive life's variety.

However, when what one will not tolerate gets transmuted to a verbal and actual intolerant condemnation of another person instead of another persons words or actions, we move in the direction even beyond discernment.

I can say I hate fleas because of what they do to my flesh and how they keep me awake at night and I can bug-bomb the hell out of them But at no time can I declare that fleas are evil or do what they do with specific evil intent against me - nor can I ever justifiably claim that fleas are minions of Satan just because everything they do brings out the worst in me.

[Hubert Flottz]

12. We need to focus on the "MORALITY" issue!

What could be more immoral than Iraq?

You may well answer my question with, 9/11 was more immoral, but the neocons STILL will not let the whole truth be told about 9/11! Why are they hiding the facts? Why did they help the Saudis get away, when no other planes in the country were allowed into the air?

When we invaded Iraq because the neocons lied, the terrorists WON!

[FlashHarry]

13. As the bumper sticker says...

Jesus, Save Me From Your Followers!

[fishnfla]

14. Rich man walks up to Jesus

he asks: WWJD?
The savior replies: sell everything and give the money to the poor. Needle, camal, eye, etc

Fast forward to today, Christian coalitions first order of business: making Bush's tax cuts permanent

Jesus would kick these assholes out of the temple

[Bluerthanblue]

25. Gandhi pegged it-

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
Mohandas Gandhi

The sad truth.

[I Have A Dream]

27. Yes, it makes me cry to think what this world would be like if...

more Christians actually used Jesus as an example of how to live in this world rather than warp his teachings or put words into his mouth that he never said to make this world less than it was before Jesus came along.

Jesus' teachings adds light and love to the world; conservative Christianity has brought darkness and has added hate and fear to the world.

[Bluerthanblue]

29. i can't even call it 'christ' ianity-

it is 'bibloity'- or 'religiosity'-

Because Christ is ignored- downplayed, and used,- Jesus summed it up so beautifully with his LIFE- service, humility, compassion, honesty, tolerance- the golden rule, which is ALWAYS right- even if you are the only one using it-

He said, many would call you crazy for following him- and the religious call me crazy, when i question why we kill pre-emptivly, and as punishment- and judge each other as unworthy of Him- while if we're honest, none of us are 'perfect' or 'selfless' or 'clean' enough- But we all are loved. Just as we are. even the 'least' of these. even the religious right.

it does sound crazy- but most really wonderful things do.

[ElectroPrincess]

15. The link ...

I think the link you referenced "got cut off" in the process of referencing it - so I took the liberty to find. Hope you don't mind and here it is ...

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Dec2004/Baker1220.htm

On Edit: Forgot to add = THANKS! I'm sending it to my Parish buds. ;)

[BiggJawn]

16. I used to get the feeling Jesus wrote "Leviticus" and "Revelations"....

Because those books seems to be the favourite ones of the Thumper Preachers.

[DanCa]

20. But Jesus said to beware of scribes and false prophetes

Many think the word scribe refers to law givers. I think the word "scribe" tends to be those who wrote the gospel such as lectivicus. Even back then the Dobson's of the world twisted Jesus' words and used it to fit thier own political agenda.

[YOY]

17. Not to worry! They're working on the image problem:

[charlie]

18. It's only a problem if they recognize it as a problem

Until then, they're our problem. Sorry, I'm sure your arguments are sound, but you can parse scriptural minutiae with those clowns all day and never gain an inch. They like invoking the authority of Jesus to justify their bent impulses and won't let that power go, not for honor, decency, or Jesus himself.

[BeFree]

34. Hello, Charlie

What this thread is about is how the thumpers have denied what Jesus said, and put the Old Testament first. They do not use Jesus' words to justify their reptilian impulses, they use the ancient history of common men and not that of an evolved spirit like Christ's.

I have deep pity for those who should know better, yet continue to support murder, death and injustice. Their rewards shall do them justice and it won't be pretty, I would imagine.

Until then, as you say, they're our problem. But they now are revealed by the likes of threads such as this and it is our job as true Christians to educate them as to their sins.

There is no way Jesus would ever support the warmongering and resultant death and destruction. No way.

[seabeyond]

22. bIG conversation with a fundie friend yesterday about this

she wanting to go to christianity for law. me telling going to old testament isnt going to cut it. she bringing up christ, and i saying they dont go to christ, whole different story if they sat in christ they go to old testament for rule and control.

talked about dobson, and how so many say good man, yet refuse to listen to his sick and perverted words, hand ot ear la la la ala.

agree totally with this article. just gotta educate

[DoYouEverWonder]

23. First of all, most of the fundies

have never read or don't know about the part in the gospels where Jesus explains that he is the fulfillment of the Old Testament, so that the old rules no longer apply. When people start quoting the Old Testament, I just say, "I didn't know you were Jewish?"

Second, there were 3 distinct major groups of early chistian, the Jewish Christians which included Jesus and the original disciples, the Gnostic Christians which evolved from the Jewish Christians and which Jesus is considered to be part of, especially since he probably studied with the Essenes and lived in Egypt during his youth and the Pauline Christians who are the one who joined up with the Romans and created the Holy Roman Empire and the abomination that is seen has mainstream christianity today.

If Jesus was a gnostic then he did not follow the god of Abraham. That is why there is such a disconnect between the two. The gnostics have very controversial views of the world and the god of Abraham who they believe is one of the fallen angels. However, when you look at the world from a gnostic POV in a strange way things start to make a lot more sense.

BTW: I do believe what we are starting to see happen down in Crawford is the beginning of the Second Coming. Again, from the gnostic POV the Second Coming not about the physical return of a man named Jesus who live 2000+ but rather the return of the Christ energy which is inside all of us and that we are beginning to see emerge right before our eyes. Peace be with you.

PBWY
DYEW

[loverevolution]

28. Blessed are the warmongers?

[Iris]

36. There's an article that is similar to this in this month's Harper's.

It basically says the new mega-churche have created a God that justifies the selfishness of their members.

[Top Lizard]

37. Unfortunately, I Have Little Hope

that most of them will come around. Many of them "have eyes but cannot see," and will probably not have the scales fall from their eyes until someone close to them suffers or the consequences of Bush's misrule become too colossal to ignore.

I belong to a Methodist church in Chicagoland, and just returned from this weekend's Vacation Bible School (meant mostly for the kids). One of our other members is a staunch Bush backer who amazingly manages to sparsely attend both the sermons and the adult Sunday School sessions, and when he does, he usually cracks jokes or makes rather ignorant comments about foreign peoples or religions. Today, he noticed my two Kerry/Edwards car stickers--which I vowed not to remove so that people would be reminded as things got worse that there was a better alternative last November.

One way I try to be a good Christian at church is to avoid picking fights with those who differ from me politically. (The only person with whom I usually discuss such issues is the pastor, who is clearly against Bush.) This other member likes to spar, however, so he asked me when I was going to remove the Kerry stickers from my car. I firmly replied, "They're not coming down," to which he responded with a diatribe about how we should all thank God that Bush won instead of that "lying loser" Kerry. :mad:

I wasn't going to let that slide, so I countered: "I think we're all losers. The real question is, 'Who's the liar?' If you ask me, he's sitting in the White House." The parishoner responded with a monologue about how His Fraudulency was keeping us safe from future terror attacks (a la London) and how all the people we're killing in Iraq are evil and out to get us. I said, "How do you know they're all evil? Is it because God tells Bush, or because Bush tells you that?" As is his style when faced with pointed questions (I've occcasionally debated him when he bothers to attend Sunday School and make some ill-informed pronouncements), this man didn't directly answer. He went on to argue that Saddam was a bloodthirsty tyrant, which I didn't dispute--although I asked, "Where are all those weapons of mass destruction?"

Other men of the church quickly tried to change the subject (none of them revealing any political leanings, I should add), but I was so burned up by this guy's ignorance that my wife, father-in-law, and I went home shortly thereafter. While this man may have been partially trying to ruffle my feathers, he's also the very model of a Bushbot because he apparently lacks any critical thinking skills. If his daughters were in danger of being drafted, or if someone he knew died in a terrorist attack, he might reconsider his political views. As it is, though, his simplistic worldview and unwillingness to analyze make him supremely confident that George III and his ilk are doing the Lord's work.

While I was still pissed off, I told my wife that if this member were hanging from a precipice, I would still save him, but I would think LONG AND HARD about it first! As long as a majority (or even sizable minority) of American Christians see things the way he does, I am not quite confident that we've turned the corner in combating the crimes which George W. Bush has committed in the names of both the United States and Jesus Christ.

And tomorrow I have to lay read and greet this ignorant schmuck! God grant me the strength! O8)

[Pathwalker]

41. Please! Do you know what bible verse tells Adam to TEND

to the earth? I need that for convincing my fundie cousin that we are supposed to tend the earth!
Please - anyone?

Thanks!

[ArthurRuger]

43. Tend the garden Adam, don't waste it.

The closest thing I've seen to a biblical justification for exploiting and abusing the environment is the Genesis command to multiply and replenish the earth and to exercise dominion over it found in the first chapers of Genesis.

What we're doing to the planet today and what the current administration has done about it while they've been the responsible party of control is the equivalent of perceiving that God filled the banquet table with all the food needed without understanding that the food was for a banquet and that after the dining, we would be on our own -expected to fill our own tables in the future.

God did not give us a fish. He expected us to learn to fish. He didn't give us turnips, he gave us turnip seeds.

He also didn't command us to form fish and turnip seed corporations to dominate our self-sustaining efforts at the expense of common sense. Otherwise, why did he create spawning grounds for more fish to appear and inspire us to learn crop rotation?

And if Jesus had commanded Christians to exploit the environment he wouldn't have talked of lilies of the field as he did. He would have told them to plow up the lilies, build housing projects, drill for oil, mine for metal or some other thing men have come up with to make land yield a profit.

And like you, I'd like to see any of those born-again anti-environment politicians tell me that environmentally we have nothing to worry about because if we fubar it badly enough, Mr. LaHaye's fantasy includes the promise that Jesus will sweep it all clean, whitewash the fences anew, flush the water sources clean, refreeze the polar caps and glaciers, smile in amusement at foolish mankind while he restores the forests with a magical sweep of his hand, like superman, suck all the pollution out of the air and in one gigantic whoosh spew it out of his mouth into outer darkenss.

[carpetbagger]

42. And think, Jesus sits off to the right of God. n/t