Gen. McCaffrey on Iraq: "The wheels are coming off it."

[swag]

Atrios (http://www.atrios.blogpost.com) culled this quote from a Washington Post report via MSNBC

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8917944

"It's a race against time because by the end of this coming summer we can no longer sustain the presence we have now," said retired Gen. Barry R. McCaffrey, who visited Iraq most recently in May and briefed Cheney, Rice and the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. "This thing, the wheels are coming off it."

[swag]

1. Oop, forgive cross-post, but it's maybe worth another look.

I find the bluntness jaw-dropping.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=146811

[Dudley_DUright]

2. The wheels came off long ago

Now it is up on blocks with the motor stripped and all the doors missing. Actually, the wheels came off the moment Bush got it in his pointy little head to invade Iraq for reasons he still cannot articulate.

[Zenlitened]

3. The wheels fell off the day the invasion phase ended...

... and our troops were left standing around asking, "Okay, now what?"

Don't let anybody suck you into a debate over whether Bush's Iraq policy has failed or not. It has. His policy was to invade without a plan for what comes next.

And it failed catastrophically, as anyone with the ability to reason could have predicted. What we've seen since the invasion is an effort to recover from that failure.

[leesa]

24. Nope. The wheels fell off when they decided to launch an unprovoked

invasion.

[ohio_liberal]

4. Gen Clark, Gen McCaffrey, Col Hackworth, Gen Shalikashvili...

There are many, many retired military (some who became TV analysts) who have said this thing is a fucking disaster. Nobody in the White House bothers to listen.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. They are merely four-star generals... what would they know?

They are not spoiled, bellicose frat boys appointed by God to lead America into a permanent state of hopeless war, so WTF would those guys know???

[FreedomAngel82]

38. I remember reading all the top generals

telling Bush "no". Even the most decroated solider in our country's history told Bush "no"! Did he listen? Of course not. All the general's, John Kerry and John Edwards should stand up at a press conference and say: "I told you so."

[EVDebs]

42. Dov Zakheim and the other neocon Israel-first crowd have sharp elbows

[ScamUSA.Com]

5. Mccaffrey himself is a total scumbag

heres a great quote from the former Drug Czar: "In my day everybody smoked and everybody drank, but noone did drugs."

[SoCalDem]

7. What he said is true, though..

People used to booze it up and most adults smoked.."Some" smoked pot, but most people did not do the kinds of drugs that are aoround today..

Soldiers in the orient probably tried opium, bnut most did not develop the kinds of addictions we see today..

[ScamUSA.Com]

9. not recognizing booze as a drug is the illogical irony of his statement

and people have been doing drugs for thousands of years

[Toots]

8. By his day I am sure he meant his Crowd

We know people have been using drugs for centuries or I should say millinium. He is not stupid and knows that as well. Drug use increased during his tenure I believe so evidently he did not do his job very well.

[swag]

10. Which makes his scumbag frankness on this point even more compelling.

[kenny blankenship]

12. I wish he had gone into more detail about the reason

why he thinks we can't sustain our presence past the end of next summer. Politics? Money? Not enough recruits?

[swag]

15. Here's a report that he gave to the Senate in which he puts some

lipstick on the pig (because perhaps in this case, of course, his audience likes their pigs to look pretty for the dance), but you can find several points therein (example: "insurgent" infiltration of Iraqi Security Forces) that give cause for concern if not for alarm:

http://www.foreign.senate.gov/testimony/2005/McCaffreyTestimony050718.pdf

[PurityOfEssence]

I think he's actually talking about THIS summer

He said this in May, talking about the end of the coming summer. It's hardly clear, and I was trying to figure it out too, but he may very well have meant the summer we're in right now, which is about 2/3rds over.

[bossfish]

34. Because of the mid-term elections?

Manipulating crappy situations for politcal gain is what the GOP does best.

[FreedomAngel82]

40. Yes

I remember seeing several weeks ago on CNN's scroll a message stating that the Pentagon was talking about pulling out of Iraq by next summer. Just in time for the midterms eh? Remember that 2002 was just in time for the midterms. It just goes to show they don't really care anything at all about the Iraqi's. Just use them and dump them. :mad: It's disgusting. For a while the Pentagon was denying anything about the "rumors" but it's obviously going to be true. I'm sure Bush will have something staged of some glorious "victory" like the Saddam statue and "finding" him in the hole.

[tabasco]

43. Probably lack of recruits. They have enough of everything except

privates. The Army needed 80,000 recruits this FY and they are going to be 10,000 short. This is a BIG problem.

I'm hoping McCaffrey has enough integrity to join the many other generals telling the truth about Iraq.

[ScamUSA.Com]

13. true it does

my comment was totally OT

no reason not to believe what he's saying on the military info

[swag]

16. Your post gave the quote some more context and grounding.

Thanks.

[ohio_liberal]

17. True that

He's not been the typical cheerleader neo-con, although he has been open about wanting the military to succeed. Hell, all the retired military people wanted it to be successful. Even Clark.

[swag]

35. I want a successful outcome for the people of Iraq.

I fought hard (obviously not hard enough) as a citizen against this war as far back as summer 2002, when it became obvious that something was amiss in the Administration's drum-beating. I want successful outcomes for US troops (home now safely), and for workers for US contractors (home now safely), and for middle east stability.

But Team Bush has fucked things up so badly that a single good outcome of US actions in Iraq now seems impossible, and it is even sinking in with such folks as Gen. Barry McCaffrey.

[swag]

37. Note: I know for the folks who had read the manifesto at

newamericancentury.org long before that that it was obvious long before 2002 that something was sorely amiss, but even though I had seen PNAC's plans before then, via metafilter, I had no idea of the audacity, mendacity, and nefariousness of the usurping regime, yes, "regime."

So I apologize for my flatfootedness.

[lonestarnot]

11. 'sok, I had not seen it.

[KoKo]

14. McCaffrey says: " American people are walking away from this war."

McCaffrey said Bush's strategy of building Iraqi political and security institutions makes sense, and he estimated an 80 percent chance of success. Even so, he said the fading public support represents a genuine hazard for the president: "We want to get out of this. . . . The American people are walking away from this war."

[gratuitous]

18. Walking away from the war, are we?

Well a little draft will fix that now, won't it?

[leesa]

25. Well, he's not very good at his job if he thinks what Bush is doing makes

sense. Blowing up people that haven't done anything to us does not foster stability. Any military strategist should understand this basic fact.

[In_The_Wind]

19. Not one more drop of American blood should fall on foreign soil!

Not. In. My. Name!

[BeFree]

20. Not in my name either

We are speaking out, and we are loud and clear. We want out. Even Generals hear us, why won't the president listen?

He won't listen to us because he wants war, he wants death. A crazy minority of people do too, but the rest of us freedom loving people are not now and never have been for war.

We are the majority, lets act like it. We shall overcome.

[In_The_Wind]

22. I agree ~ BeFree! Stop the killing! Stop the war!

War has never been the answer!


I'll be in DC on September 24, 2005 ... adding my voice to many others who also want to put an end to war. Will you be there?

[BeFree]

26. If I can make it, I will be there.

I'd love to see you there.

I understand this gathering on the 24th is gonna be well attended. How would I find you? Are Du'ers gonna meet up in one particular place? Who would organize such a thing? Would it be wise to let it be public information?

One problem I might have, if I were to go, I'd probably get thrown in jail. Authority figures, and all that; knowhatimean?. lol

[In_The_Wind]

27. Then here's all you need to know about DC

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=148&topic_id=619&mesg_id=619

http://www.brainshrub.com/dcdumeetup


There is no reason to get thrown in jail ... after all ... We Are A PEACE Loving group of Americans!

[BeFree]

29. Thanks, Joan

I didn't know. But know this, it is very hard for me to leave my home of freedom and go to the big city again. But the 24th looks like the best reason yet to tear myself away. After all, if all this war goes on much longer, my freedom may become severely limited. Besides, even though I am a pacifist, I am also a cop magnet! lol

[In_The_Wind]

31. I left the city life many years ago. I wouldn't be in DC if not for DU.

I'm not a cop magnet, I just don't like large crowds.

I become depressed and angry when I see all of the suffering, the homeless, the hungry because I know that we can do a better job of taking care of our citizens.

We can do so much more to provide adequate medical care and education. War is a waste of our most precious resource - human life.

[BeFree]

32. Yeah, DU Rules.

If it wasn't for DU I'd think the Whole World had gone completely insane.

I've stood down the cops before and managed to get away scot-free, maybe I can do it again? The 24th is looking greener and greener.

[In_The_Wind]

45. Perhaps we'll see you in DC ~ BeFree

I'm looking forward to seeing ALL of the DUers that I've already met.

I know there will be many new faces of DU there too. I hope you'll be one of them, I'll like to meet you.

[Talismom]

46. This "president" doesn't listen to anyone when he sets his mind

on something. It's like he's got to prove he's a real man and never change course.

[lateo]

21. Why does this General hate America?

[Lefty48197]

23. He's being too kind. The wheels are already off.

.

[stevietheman]

28. ...as the wheels come off our economy... and country. n/t

n/t

[MattSWin]

30. The kneejerkers are at again...

McCaffrey constantly criticizes Bush on Iraq and some DUers still think he's a right-wing hack because he doesn't say the words "immediate troop withdrawal."

Face it he's not going to just come out and call for troop withdrawal because it'd put him in a bad position since a general's job isn't to question public policy.

A general's job is to analyze strategy for winning a war, and McCaffrey certainly isn't admiring Bush's strategy.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

44. McCaffrey has been more anti-war than most Democratic Senators

I have picked on many things McCaffrey has said over time. But I'd rather have his voice representing me in the Senate than quite a few so-called Liberals who are there right now, at least on the Iraq war issue.

[Jamison]

33. Hmmm...If that's the case...

then how's Bush gonna go after the Iranian nukes???

[Disturbed]

36. The operation was a success but..

the patient died.

The invasion of Iraq was successful. The Occupation is a failure.

The Iraqi people do not view the new Iraqi Govt. as representing them as long as the U.S. is in charge. NO matter when the Occupation ends there will be chaos. This Bush Regime agenda is a Pipe Dream.

The PNAC goals have been partialy met though.

Bush Regime Iraq Successes

1. Saddam will no longer sell Iraqi oil via the Euro.

2, A military foothold in the ME. Other than Saudi Arabia.

3, No countries will be able to buy Iraqi oil that the U.S. disapproves of.

4. The Multi-Intl. Oil Corps are reaping great profits, esp. Bush Junta fave ally Saudi Dicktatorshit.

[Donailin]

39. Jesus Christ. The wheels are coming off this whole damned country

I'm ready to scream. No, I have screamed, I've been really really screaming for about a week. The price of oil is killing me. Having no health care is killing me. When oil goes up, the first thing people start cutting back on is luxury items and services -- that's me. I'm fucked. A single mom with three teens. I'm totally fucked. The death, the waste, the fact that this STUPID MOTHERFUCKING ASSHOLE HAS NO GODDAMED COHERENT SENSIBLE PLAN to steer this country back on track isn't bad enough, what's bad enough is that every fucking wrong decision he can possibly make he makes. Every wrong word that can come out of his mouth, comes out in droves. We are FUCKED. Totally fucked. The wheels aren't just coming off the sensless war, they're coming off the whole damn planet, thanks to the fucking capitalist PIGS that have hijacked religion, the weapons, the money, the power, all of it.


SOMEBODY FUCKING HELP US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[EVDebs]

41. Gen Zinni "They've screwed up" article

CBS New's 60 Minutes
Gen. Zinni: 'They've Screwed Up'

May 21, 2004

www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/21/60minutes/main618896.shtml

This article deserves to be read over and over again and again.

[Bluebear]

47. And he was a "traitor" at the time

according to the RW.

[EVDebs]

48. Namecalling seems to be all the RW can do at this point

Have you seen the results of their handiwork ? Iraq is poised to create another "Islamic republic" right next door to that other one. Just what they anticipated, right ?

Cindy & company should be DEMANDING Shrub answer questions about THAT since MSM won't even ask...