Ever lost a friend due to political persuasion?

[OKDem08]

I actually blew off a friend recently because I am sick of the anti-Clinton, anti-Hillary, anti-Democratic e-mails I received on a regular basis. Fewer friends, I presume, are better than false friends. Then again, I was close w/my mom & now I am becoming distant because of our differing political stances. It didn't used to be that way. Things are a' changin'...can anyone relate?

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. absolutely, I have lost many friends

and this is the prelims to any civil war, first it is cold... this is what keeps me awake at night by the way

[Is It Fascism Yet]

2. Are you kidding? Lost friends, family members, job ops, and lots of sleep

[OKDem08]

4. My husband has become completely

ostracized at work. I choose to keep my opinions to myself from that perspective because I know if I do so, I will prob lose my means of income (small office..large opposition) if you know what I mean.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

12. Poor girl. Thats awful, to have to spend time with the fascists under

cover and duress. My condolences. Fortunately for me, I haven't found work since Shrub first stole the White House, so, at least I need not tolerate the fundies 8 hours a day.

[TomClash]

19. That just sucks

I work with a few suburban freepers and we are at least civil to each other.

I feel badly for your husband.

[Catholic Sensation]

3. No

because people are my friends for reasons other than politics. People believe differently, if they're your friends, talk about something else. It's really not complex.

[OKDem08]

7. I'm not implying that it is complex...

actually, it is very basic. It's as simple as seeing the truth or being blind to the truth. Is it so wrong to ally yourself w/truth-seekers?

[DanCa]

8. Ah what do you with the ten percent who wont leave you alone?

No matter how much you ask them to bugger off. Just wondering.

[Hello_Kitty]

5. Yep

I lost a friend completely during the election cycle. And I know I'm biased and probably not very objective where this is concerned, but I did notice that when we argued I tended to argue facts or issues and she came back with emotionally based responses. "I just feel safer with Bush". She also took it very personally. It upset her that anyone dared to question her faith in the Chimperor. You were a bad American as far as she was concerned. And you were mean and insulting to her. You were calling her dumb. I guess it really is true that a lot of people vote their identities and the conservative propaganda machine has very cleverly exploited this.

Not all Republicans are like her but a disturbing number of them are. And yeah, I take some stuff personally too but I've been called all manner of tree-hugging commie socialist and it just doesn't hurt my feelings like that. Oh well...:shrug:

[DanCa]

6. My friend Kevin

He is the sweetest guy in the world than he changed when the occupation of Iraq started. Okay I though let him blew it off steam. But no matter how hard I tried and no matter how much I asked him not to talk about politics he wouldnt' stop. The final nail came when he started bible thumping on me. Thats was the last straw. Have spoken to him since october.

[silverweb]

9. Absolutely.

In multiple instances. It brought some previously hidden attitudes to the surface, and made me wonder just how we could have been friends before and what it was I thought we had in common.

The divide has served also to eliminate the phony "duty" affection with certain relatives because now I know exactly why I had to pretend before.

[Dastard Stepchild]

10. I'm acquaintances with non-liberals...

but they don't fall under the title of friends. I have only a few, very carefully selected friends. The non-liberal acquaintances aren't that overwhelmingly important in my life, thus their political beliefs are less relevant to me.

[Wetzelbill]

11. I had a friend that.....

I went to college with who sent me a weird e-mail after the 2 anniversary of 9-11. I sent out some of my thoughts on 9-11 and the Iraq War, and he tried to argue back and forth with me. I fixed him but good. I took his own words and systematically destroyed him with them. Ok, I'm a writer too, so I have a way with words, and I put him down hard. He deserved it though. I should say I wasn't cursing or anything like that, I just used his own arguments against him, and it was a pretty thorough shellacking. We've never been in touch since.

I thought I was going to lose another friend. He's very anti-Clinton, for no real reason. He don't like Clinton for stuff that Republicans did, haha. Go figure. When the Iraq War began he was total rah rah pro-war. He used to be in the Army and this guy has drank the Kool-Aid and then some. Typical inane RW arguments. Well, I did the same thing to him as I did to the other guy. Worse though. Just brutal. Take his own words and use them against him. Deconstruct everything he said in his e-mails. Well, the difference with him is he just kept coming back for more. I think he likes arguing back and forth, even though he gets hammered on, lol. Sometimes over the phone he goes too far though. He said things before that almost got us into a fistfight. It would if he said them in person, but we aren't like that in person to each other, lol. Don't really talk politics like that.

So I've had it worth both ways.

[warrens]

13. I won't speak to former friends

And will never speak to my nazi father again. Big deal.

[awoke_in_2003]

20. "And will never speak to my nazi father again"

That is sad. I got lucky, it brought me closer to mine. I used have the blinders on, used to be a republican (perish the thought). Good thing about Bushie, he pushed me from the repub party and made me realize I am really liberal- just like dad.

[pointblank]

23. You sound just like me!!!

[Hardrada]

14. We have rid ourselves of the fascists

long long ago.

[firefox]

15. All old college acquantances

This year will be 30 years since we graduated. I told them last year I would not attend any more gatherings. Why some of them have so much religion now is beyond me. Some are just over the top on anti-gay, pro-war, and pro-Bu$h. But when you try to talk to them they cannot answer anything and if you present something not etched into their circuitry it flips them out. And I totally go off on any ignorant person that talks of a liberal media. The liberal media brainwashing is a litmus test for reality and thinking Americans. Disney, GE, AOL-Time Warner, Fox/Newscorp, and Red Wellstone are the media and who is anywhere near center, much less liberal. Then top it off with the ever famous liberal Clear Channel.

I have had enough of crazy people.

[OKDem08]

16. somebody tell me!

it's got to be a better to live in a blue state, right? I just can't fathom moving overseas.

[TomClash]

17. COME TO NEW YORK !

In my neighborhood, almost everybody voted for Kerry and Greens outnumber Repukes. Public services are still public. Almost no one is for the War even though 12 of the 30 firemen at the local fire station died on 9/11 - everyone knows the difference between Iraq and 9/11. The only question people ask about gay marriage is what kind of gift to give the happy couple. There's a huge Green Market and food coop. And few talk about religion, though many people practice it in their own quite way.

There are a lot of places like this in America.

It's your country too.

[awoke_in_2003]

18. Lost a few acquaintances...

but no real friends. I have few of them, and I tend to have ones that are smarter than me. Take my best friend- when we invaded Iraq we differed greatly over it- him for and me against. We just didn't talk much politics after that. Before the '04 primaries, however, he had come around. He is too smart to be lied to forever. Moral: pick smart friends.

[nookiemonster]

21. Fuck em.

If they want to be blind to what's going on, then so be it.

It's an exercise in futility to speak rationally to these types. My group of friends has become smaller, and that's quite alright by me.

[KayLaw]

22. Yes

I'd like to lose a few relatives, too, but can't. One seemingly intelligent friend changed after September 11th. She just lay on the couch and watched cable news and cried until her mother told her to get it together. Then she started repeating the administration's talking points and I lost all respect for her.

[Hubert Flottz]

24. Yes several and guess what...

"I DON'T CARE!"

[Hekate]

25. Yes -- but I try hard to talk politics only with those who agree

The reason for avoiding political discussions with friends and relatives who disagree with me is that I am passionate about my beliefs and could terminally offend someone I truly care about; also part of being a liberal (I think) is accepting that there are other points of view in the world. A dear elderly uncle of mine is probably two steps to the right of Ghengis Khan, but as he harms no one we have agreed to disagree and I love him still. He's different from my other uncle (his late brother, as it happens) who wouldn't let an argument die, but had to try to dominate -- I ended up really not loving him, but just tolerating him and avoiding talking to him at all.

As for your Mom, my personal feeling is you should try to find a way to do the same -- agree to disagree, and regain your common ground if at all possible. Families are complex; in most, though, there's really no need to allow a schism to happen.

Before the country got so polarized I didn't hesitate to try to persuade others in face to face discussions, but nowadays I confine my persuasive powers to LTTEs, occasional public speaking, and bumper stickers. People who know me know where I stand. If we are anywhere on the Dem/Progressive side of things we can have a lively chat about who's the best prez candidate or just cry in our beer together. Otherwise I really have no time or energy for rants on the other side.

As to the friends I've regrettably lost:

One is a woman I used to walk with for exercise; we lost touch. At some point she began to feel great sorrow over an abortion she had 20+ years ago, became religious, took instructions as a Catholic, and began to volunteer as a crisis pregnancy counselor. I didn't know the extent of this change in her life until we bumped into each other at a friend's during the troubles the Right to Life movement was causing with harrassment at clinics and much, much worse violence. When I indicated that I am a strong supporter of Planned Parenthood, and yes, pro-choice, the poor woman looked at me as though I had professed a devotion to Satanic rites, and literally backed across the room away from me. I have not seen her since.

The sad part is, to me being pro-choice means respecting other women's choices. No one can know what is in the heart and mind of another; women are not cattle, they are moral agents; life ultimately presents all of us humans with very hard decisions to make, and then we have to live with the consequences. In some cases, the choice is to have a baby that has not been planned for, and that will change the entire rest of your life, happy or not. Ironically, I've never had an abortion myself. I respect my friend's need to find resolution and solace; as she ultimately never had children (I have two) and now that the time has passed for her, she understandably ponders the meaning of her decision all those years ago. But that doesn't mean her long-ago abortion was evil, and it doesn't mean I'm Satanic.

The other former friend is someone I just don't understand. 9-11 really set off something in her -- I don't know if she liked Bush before that, but she sure decided to like him afterward, and believes his lies about Iraq. This nice old lady started talking about nuking the Middle East: "We oughta go in there and just clean'em out" she said once, which kind of made my hair stand on end. My husband and I both objected strenuously. Then she put me on her e-mailing list to receive material I find extremely offensive -- the kind of thing that conflates Christianity and American patriotism. One started off with "I just don't understand the people who ..." and ended "Since they are a small minority, they should SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP!" I hit the roof and wrote a long rebuttal with a Reply-All. Over time I cooled off. Then she did it again, and I rose to the bait again. This time she called my home (got my husband) to tell me how offended she was. I reconsidered my actions and wrote to her and her list that I was sorry that I had risen to the bait and had said some intemperate things, but that I wanted to be removed from this list forever. Two people actually have told me how much they appreciated my original responses, as they don't understand what she's doing either. But I just don't think it's good for me to allow myself to be goaded like that, and I am quite glad she's stopped sending me her spam.

Usually, however, friends who have changed that much from me just drift away or I drift away from them. I want the Bush gangsters to go away, and I have been working for that in many ways ever since he was installed, but I don't want personal enmity in my life.

Hekate

[zanne]

26. Invasion of the Body Snatchers

When Bush firt "took" office, I thought I was having a bad dream. People I've been close to most of my life were revealing a side of themselves I didn't know existed. My sister, who has always been my best friend, revealed that she was a right-winger at heart. That really threw me. Other people in my life went the same way. It was as though aliens had invaded silently and stolen the souls and personalities of people I loved! There is a sense of unreality about it, and even though these people have insisted that their political opinions are genuine, I keep trying to "reach" them and bring out what I think are their "true" personalities. I know I'm in denial, but it's the only way I can handle this and keep them as friends.

[silverweb]

27. This is a very interesting discussion.

The old adage has been to avoid discussing "religion and politics" in order to keep peace among friends and family. This administration is so polarizing and has done so much damage with its arrogance and deceit -- and it's adoption of the RW Pseudo-Christian Dominionist agenda has emboldened those fanatics and made them so much more visibly demanding -- that "religion and politics" have become the litmus test for almost any relationship, be it family, friendship, or business.

It took this for me to learn that "just politics" is not "just politics" and "respecting" other religions is not a mutual practice. These are things that affect each and every one of us in multiple and intimate and irrevocable ways. Now is the time when each of us learns who our friends really are and who we can trust.

There are two categories on the "other" side -- the blind and the malicious. Those who are still blind at this point are either lazy/stupid or brainwashed/terrorized. Those who are malicious and gleefully revel in this maladministration's policies are never to be trusted in the smallest measure.

I can only feel pity/disgust for the blind and loathing for the malicious, cut them out of my life as much as possible, and partner myself with like-minded people to keep up the fight against the evils we all face.