Justice Sunday: "Our laws are based on Ten Commandments"

[Bluebear]

U.S. House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, speaks during the 'Justice Sunday II' broadcast in Nashville, Tenn., Sunday, Aug. 14, 2005. The program was designed by the Family Research Council to educate voters on how the courts affect the every day lives of Americans. (AP Photo/John Russell)

Thousands of people filled a church Sunday night for "Justice Sunday II," an event organizers said wasn't necessarily about pushing for the confirmation of John Roberts for the U.S. Supreme Court, but more about supporting justices who don't have radical agendas.

"We've seen a conservative president get re-elected, the conservative Congressional base expand. The (Supreme) Court is part of a cultural problem," said Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, the organization responsible for "Justice Sunday II: God Save the United States and this Honorable Court!"

The second in a series of demonstrations televised for broadcast at churches across the country included in its list of planned speakers U.S. House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, Focus on the Family founder James Dobson and conservative Christian activist Phyllis Schlafly.

Perkins said the rally was intended to help educate evangelical Christians about the Supreme Court and to encourage them to talk to friends and elected officials about what they want for the Court.
Mike Miller, 54, of Gallatin who attended the rally, said he believes Supreme Court justices try to create laws with their rulings instead of interpreting the Constitution. "Activist justices — we're trying to find out what we can do to stop that activity," he said. "Our laws are based on the Ten Commandments."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050814/ap_on_re_us/justice_sunday&printer=1

[Connie_Corleone]

1. Oh really??

I didn't know there was a law to keep the sabbath holy or to worship only one god.

:eyes:

[kestrel91316]

8. There will be soon enough, if DeLay and friends get their way.

[DanCa]

2. Only two laws that we have our based on the ten commandments

Thou shall not steal and thou shall not kill. Of course stealling doesn't apply to elections and killing is okay when it comes to invading other countries.

[shaniqua6392]

6. Well said

and very true.

[Crunchy Frog]

16. Those aren't even based on the ten commandments.

They predate the ten commandments are a part of the legal code of just about every human culture. The fact that they happen to be part of the ten commandments is incidental.

[Wizard777]

25. Novus Ordo Seclorum

Murder is the greatest deprival of personal freedom. Theft is the deprival of the personal rewards of living in freedom. There are some concepts of morality and ethics that are universal. Those laws also existed long before Moses was even born. The Ten Commandments is a moral code given to the Hebrews by God through Moses.

[Journeyman]

29. In 2003, Alan Dershowitz wrote an interesting piece on this. . .

They've Fallen Off the Top 10 List

Read closely: The Ten Commandments reflect a primitive worldview.

By Alan Dershowitz
Alan Dershowitz is a law professor at Harvard University.

September 14, 2003

During the debate over removing a 2-ton monument featuring the Ten Commandments from the rotunda of the Alabama Supreme Court, it has been repeatedly asserted that "America was built on the principles of the Ten Commandments" and that our system of government is based on the Decalogue. The opposite is much closer to the historical truth. As Thomas Jefferson --who rejected the divine origin of the Ten Commandments and found them to be "defective and doubtful" --recognized, our nation was founded on a rejection of much of what is in the actual content of the commandments.

Most Americans are unaware of what is included in the nearly 300 words that make up the Ten Commandments as set out in Exodus and Deuteronomy and translated in the King James (and other) versions of the Bible. They know only the CliffsNotes version: "Thou shalt not kill" (or "murder," depending on which translation one accepts); "Thou shalt not commit adultery," which, in its time applied only to married women, not married men, who were free to have sex with unmarried women; and "Thou shalt not steal" or "bear false witness."

In theory at least, all civilized societies recognize those ancient principles, which aren't original to Mosaic law. They are based on earlier laws, such as the Code of Hammurabi and the Code of Lipit-Ishtar. Can it be said then that the United States is based on pagan codes?

<snip>

So what is so American about the Ten Commandments? Nothing, I submit. The rules we accept actually precede the Ten Commandments and are accepted by all civilized nations. The remaining provisions --which call for punishing children for the sins of parents, acknowledge slavery, mark Saturday as the exclusive day of rest and were read as exempting married men from the prohibition against adultery --the United States has generally rejected.

Not only do the Ten Commandments not belong in public courthouses or classrooms, they do not even belong --at least without some amendments and explanatory footnotes --in the hearts and minds of contemporary Americans.


http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-dershowitz14sep14,1,6046935.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions

(Unfortunately, it seems the link has been archived)

[DanCa]

30. Ah I never advocated that they belong in public places, .

I just meant that out of the ten commandments only two are actually in the law. Sorry am distracted watching a special on the bruce springsteen on channel eleven. I totally agree its inappropraite to force religion on people. Let me know if were cool.

[Journeyman]

35. I'm sorry, DanCa. . .

I posted in response to your comment about only two being part of our law. That triggered my memory of Dershowitz's column. I didn't want to bring the "monument" issue into this; it just came with the paragraph on Tom Jefferson.

It's unfortunate the article is unavailable. There were lots of very telling comments in it.

[DanCa]

36. No need to appologize

You were nice it's my fault. I didn't express my view point cleary.
No harm no foul. Were pals.

[charlie]

42. Someone posted the whole article

in this forum thread (sorry, there's no direct link to the post, scroll down about 1/3). You're right, it's pretty good:

http://forums.techguy.org/archive/index.php/t-159972.html

[rndmprsn]

38. very well said

[sakabatou]

63. True 'dat

[Toots]

81. How about coveting thy neighbor's ass

:shrug:

[The Magistrate]

3. The Problem With This, Sir

Is that our laws are not based on that source. They are based on the English Common Law, which is rooted in ancient Anglo-Saxon practice, with an admixture of Norman law, rooted in a similar Scandanavian base, with an admixture to both sources of Roman law, particularly in matters of contract and liability. In other words, the actual historical sources of our law are wholly West European, and quite divorced from the Abrahamic matrix in the Near East.

[kestrel91316]

10. SHHHHH, we wouldn't want to confuse these nuts with facts.

[rodeodance]

11. 'go tell it on the mountain,......"

[shaniqua6392]

4. Revoke their tax exempt status

Why doesn't anyone file lawsuits or something? This is illegal and they should not be eligible for tax exemptions. If my church did something like this, I would walk out and never look back. My church (Lutheran) never even mentions politics, voting, or any such thing. This is horrifying and they should be stopped. This is the most un-Christian gathering I have ever seen. God would detest it as it goes against everything He has taught us. These people are not Christians.

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[sakabatou]

64. Anyone want to enlighten me on what happened?

Or should I just drop it myself?

[The Magistrate]

65. That Would Be Best, Sir

It has been dealt with....

[Just Me]

71. A misunderstanding being sorted out by human cultivation.

:hug:

I stepped into bile,...and am working to clean it up,...I guess.

[sakabatou]

73. Okay. Get it now

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[progmom]

18. what's up with that?

this was a great post. where is the intolerance?

[beam me up scottie]

50. I love your sig picture.

We owe a lot to those two uppity women.

[Name removed]

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[Cocoa]

9. they're getting DeLay's friend on #8

Abramoff didst stole big time.

[Erika]

12. Our laws are based on the 10 Commandments? What a joke

This pandering to zealots is just that. When was the last time anyone in this country was thrown into jail for coveting, adultery, or not observing the Sabbath?

Some of the most decent people I know are atheists and agnostics. They just believe it is wrong to cause harm to others. Very simplistic but bottom line.

Bush's interpretation of religion is do right or you will go to hell. I wonder why he didn't think about that before he condemned our kids to die in an unjust and immoral war. Even worse, is the innocent Iraqis who were killed by him.

[Clark2008]

14. Actually, they are.

HOWEVER, they also have been crystalized through the British legal system and our own for hundreds of years, making their original form less stringent in oppression of those who do not follow Christianity.

[rodeodance]

19. Xena Warrior Princess followed these rules also (well, she tried)

[Clark2008]

44. LOL!

:rofl:

[zoeb]

15. looks like a guy that is about to be indicted

and doesn't know crap about our constitution!!

[jim3775]

20. Okay then, everyone is guilty of thought crimes.

You can't want anything, what kind of shit is that?

Also, isn't that the height of hypocrisy? Republicans pushing the 10 commandments, can't kill, can't lie, can’t cheat on your spouse.

Seems like an awful lot of that stuff is going on in the republican party.

[Zenlitened]

33. Isn't Jesus quoted in the bible somewhere saying if ya even THINK...

... about murdering someone, you're guilty of murder??

Man, I'm going to have to seriously limit what I read on the 'net and in newspapers, see on TV, etc. etc. :D

[dave123williams]

21. You'd think the Constitution would mention God in it somewhere....

if that's the case. Strangely, it doesn't. Hmmmmmmmm.

[growlypants]

22. Ya know, that psycho freak Pat Robertson is calling for his minions

to use the entire month of August to (get this) "PRAY FOR VACANCIES ON THE SUPREME COURT." So basically this FRAUD, this CRIMINAL is asking his mindless zombies to pray that someone (hey, maybe MORE than one!!) DIES. I swear there is no lower scum on this planet than these evangelical wack jobs. :puke:

[charlie]

26. It's an old habit of his

He's been doing that regularly for years. Hasn't worked yet, though. You'd guess he and his minions would finally figure that going squinty-eyed does nothing to bring about the happy mayhem they desire.

[FreedomAngel82]

55. And what if it doesn't happen?

:shrug:

[growlypants]

67. Then he simply says "God didn't mean for it to happen today"

or "you didnt pray hard enough and give me enough money"

[progressivebydesign]

23. Then why isn't Newt Gingrich in jail????

I mean.. isn't adultery one of those Commandments? How about lying? Bush would be in jail for that one. Should I go on? Or can we all see the unbelievably SCARY ignorance from those people. I tell ya, the religious evangelcal right are the biggest threat to our country.

[spindoctor]

24. So Tom DeLay is working on the Sabbath?

That goes against commandment no. 3 if I am not mistaken.

[FreedomAngel82]

56. Actually I think the Sabbath

was on the day we know as Saturday. They had a different calendar then we do. And why aren't they selling their kids into slavery or stoneing them when they disobey? :eyes:

[Al-CIAda]

28. The Christian Nation Myth

The Christian Nation Myth
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/farrell_till/myth.html

America's Most Famous Deists

"The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy."
-George Washington

"The founders of our nation were nearly all Infidels."
-The Rev. Bird Wilson, an Episcopal minister and historian (lamented in an 1831 sermon)

Founding Father Quotes You Won't Hear on the 700 Club

George Washington

George Washington to Tench Tilghman, (March 24, 1784):
"I am a good deal in want of a House Joiner and Bricklayer, (who really understand their profession) and you would do me a favor by purchasing one of each, for me. I would not confine you to Palatines. If they are good workmen, they may be of Asia, Africa, or Europe. They may be Mahometans, Jews or Christian of an Sect, or they may be Atheists."


John Adams

From a letter to Charles Cushing (October 19, 1756):
“Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, ‘this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.’”

A Defense of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America, 1787–88:
“The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. … It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses. …Thirteen governments thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery… are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind”

Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11: Written during the Administration of George Washington and signed into law by John Adams. 
“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”

John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, (July 16, 1814):
"Cabalistic Christianity, which is Catholic Christianity, and which has prevailed for 1,500 years, has received a mortal wound, of which the monster must finally die. Yet so strong is his constitution, that he may endure for centuries before he expires."


Thomas Jefferson

Letter to his nephew, Peter Carr, August 10, 1787
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."

Thomas Jefferson to Jeremiah Moore, August 14, 1800
"The clergy, by getting themselves established by law, & ingrafted into the machine of government, have been a very formidable engine against the civil and religious rights of man. They are still so in many countries & even in some of these United States. Even in 1783, we doubted the stability of our recent measures for reducing them to the footing of other useful callings. It now appears that our means were effectual."

Letter to Dr. Benjamin Rush, September 23, 1800
“ believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly: for I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man”


James Madison

Letter to William Bradford, April 1, 1774:
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise"

Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, Section 7, 1785:
“During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.”

Ibid, Section 8:
“What influence in fact have ecclesiastical establishments had on Civil Society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the Civil authority; in many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny: in no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty, may have found an established Clergy convenient auxiliaries”


Benjamin Franklin

From Franklin’s autobiography:
“Scarcely was I arrived at fifteen years of age, when, after having doubted in turn of different tenets, according as I found them combated in the different books that I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself ”

“...Some books against Deism fell into my hands....It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quote to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations, in short, I soon became a thorough Deist.”


Ethan Allen
From Religion of the American Enlightenment:
“Denominated a Deist, the reality of which I have never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian.”


Thomas Paine

Excerpts from The Age of Reason:

"My own mind is my own church.  All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

"Whenever we read the obscene stores (of the Bible), the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the Word of God." 


Many, many more-
http://www.deism.org/foundingfathers.htm

[Erika]

41. Our founding fathers saw religion as a threat

and tried to protect future generations.

Great post, I hope you spread it far and wide.

[FreedomAngel82]

58. Don't forget Abraham Lincoln

The Bible is not my book, and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."
-- Abraham Lincoln

And also a lot of the founding fathers were Dietist. They believed in a higher being but not God and didn't go by Christianity. Benjamin Franklin grew up as a Unitarian but when he was older he became a Dietist. Also, a lot of them were Free Mason's and there are Masonic signs in DC and on our money. Don't forget the bird Muloch is on our one dollar bill and that weird eye thing is a Masonic symbol. So if anything Free Masonry formed our founding fathers. They came here to get away from all of that. Obviously these people love to re-write all types of history whether from our own or what Jesus Christ says.

[Rex]

31. DeLay the criminal needs to be in church.

It won't help him. See what happens when you let them fuck the Constitution?

[wli]

48. complete BS n/t

[OrlandoGator]

49. Only two of the ten commandments are law.

Nice try, fuckstick.

[FreedomAngel82]

51. What about

thou shalt not steal or thou shalt not kill? :shrug:

[Liberal In Texas]

52. NO they're not. And never were.

This view is a product of rewritten history.

(viz....Check out what Jefferson wrote.)

[FreedomAngel82]

54. Well what about this from Christ?

I guess they missed it? < It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."> Matthew 21: 13

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. They are?

I swear Jefferson and Hamilton must be doing summersaults in them damn graves... I think we need to go back to Congress being in session on December 24th,

[Greeby]

60. Ah, a Justice Sunday thread, perfect time for..........

:evilgrin:

[Lars39]

66. Ohhhh, nice! Can I nick that?

Got a few folks that would get offended over that. :evilgrin:

[BiggJawn]

68. "Remember the Sabbath day, and keep it Holy"

"I am the LORD thy GOD. Thou shalt have NO other Gods before Me."

OK, what parts of the United States Code incorporates those two "commandments"?


"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of Religion"
So, if I choose to have "other" Gods, or (GASP!) *NO* gawds, I think that's protected under the Constitution.

As for the "Commandment" stated in the subject line, we went to the store and bought caulk today. Is THAT "keeping it Holy"?

[Swamp Rat]

69. To quote Malloy, "batshit crazy!"

[Disturbed]

75. Amerika's greatest threats?

Fundies! So called Christians and Wahabists.

[Swamp Rat]

76. Dern tootin'!

Surreal. :hide:

[Mr_Spock]

70. That looks like a psychopath there - like Hitler or something

These people really do remind me of people like Hitler and his ilk. They can't stand that people can be happy who don't believe their gobbledygook. They are almost mentally disabled - maybe they should seek counseling?

[Spider Jerusalem]

72. No, Tom, they aren't.

Fucking idiot. If he's going to be in fucking Congress, someone needs to educate him. Our laws are based on the English common law and the Magna Carta. The Ten Commandments don't enter into it.

[Warren DeMontague]

74. Yes, having any Gods before Me is a Felony in some states

and coveting thy neighbor's ass can be a real breach of etiquette.

[...of J.Temperance]

77. Why is the cross

Black? I know you'll probably say it's black because it's a silhouette or it's shadowed. But isn't a lot of Fundie stuff "symbolic" and they choose to show a Black Cross and NOT a White Cross.

Personally, I've always strongly suspected that these Fundie types are batting for the other side, that the God they talk about is ACTUALLY the other fellow, the one with the tail and the pitchfork that likes to hang out in 2,000 degree temperatures.

Can anybody name ONE Christian thing the Fundie's have EVER done OR supported? As it says in the book: "Judge them by their deeds and not their words."

Has anybody seen a Fundie without their shoes on? We need to see if their feet are in actual fact Cloven Hoof.

[mmonk]

78. Are

"Christians" supposed to lie?

[...of J.Temperance]

79. As a rule of thumb

No Christian's aren't supposed to lie, it's against the Big 10. However, the utterly bizarre brand of Republican "Christians", yes they're allowed to lie and be hypocrites AND murder people.

There's a double standard don't you know for these freaks.

[...of J.Temperance]

80. I seem

To have the unique ability to kill a thread. I think I'm doing something badly wrong.

[mntleo2]

82. Have No Other Gods Before Me....

Seems like the very first commandment is already broken by having someone like Tom "I'm-not-greedy-because-I-do-not-covet-anybody's-wife (at leastI haven't been caught at it)- but-I-take-anybody's-money-and-power-so-forget-the-rest-of-the coveting-part-of-this-commantment-that's-ok," Delay. He worships money and tells offshore business people they are exactly what America stands for when they force abortions and prostitution as well as exploit and force women into slave labor. Looks to me like he has oretty much trashed the first commandment out of the gate here, lol

Cat In Seattle