My take on Cindyfest: Why I can't support her now.

[CubsFan1982]

I realize this may (certainly will) get me flamed, maybe even banned, but I feel this has to be said:

Cindy Sheehan has become DU's latest cause celebre. Her gripe is legitimate, and if not for certain circumstances, I would wholeheartedly support her.

The excess attention paid her by certain groups on this forum is almost frightening, as well, and is mostly the reason why I can't support Mrs. Sheehan.

Witness what happened in a thread dealing with her son asking her to come home to be with their family at a stressful and psychologically wrenching time. Her son is vilified as a sexist, misogynist bastard for wanting his mother to be close to the family. That's out of line. We are the first ones to complain when innocent victims are assaulted, yet we do the same thing. That makes us no better than our opposition.

Whenever a dissenting opinion is raised about Mrs. Sheehan, it is immediately shot down as "disruptive" or "divide and conquer" or "freeper garbage". Those opinions aren't entertained in rational, intelligent discussion because Mrs. Sheehan has been almost deified by DUers. I have seen her compared to Rosa Parks, Mahatma Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, Joan of Arc, even Jesus Christ. This is overkill, pure and simple. When 90% of the threads on the first page have SOMETHING to do with Mrs. Sheehan, that's overkill, and that is the reason I can't support her anymore. Mrs. Sheehan can do no wrong, Mrs. Sheehan is damn close to perfect, Mrs. Sheehan is a saint. She's not. She's fallible like every one of us -- whether we admit it or not.

We have become what our opposition is: a faction overrun with groupthink. All contrary opinions must be silenced. Anyone who does not think Mrs. Sheehan's motives are pure and without fault is called out as a freeper or from "the forum that shall not be named".

Is this really what liberalism and progressivism is about? We pride ourselves on our intelligence, our ability to debate, our acceptance of other points of view. We're not doing that here.

Mrs. Sheehan has, unfortunately, become the flavor of the week. If she ever gets her meeting with the President, she will be forgotten. We will move on to the next cause du jour, and that will be doing no service to her.

We have become more concerned with making points rather than winning battles. We place more value on a soldier's mother camped outside the President's ranch than we do on elections. We are expending all our words of support for Mrs. Sheehan here rather than informing our friends, family, co-workers of her cause. We already know who Mrs. Sheehan is. Most Americans do not. That is where we should come in and make it our business to educate those who do not know.

I can't support Cindy Sheehan because of the words and actions of her supporters. We, in general, need to step back and re-analyze how best we can "support" Mrs. Sheehan.

All mature, rational responses are most heartily welcomed.

[uppityperson]

1. The reason I support her is she is fallible, common with a good point

Same reason I supported King, Mandela, Gandhi. They started out as common people with a good, peaceful point. I will avoid further discussions about her family, except for how it relates to the current situation as all I know is the little I have read, and we all know how accurate the media is. We can help by letting her be fallible, letting her have her private life and following her message about Mr.bush, Iraq, lies and death.

I will continue to support her and use her as a good example.

[CubsFan1982]

12. Thank you.

You've explained your passion for this subject in a clear and dispassionate way, and I appreciate that.

[eileen_d]

2. Hey, I'm with ya.

I've been away from this forum for a long-long time, just posted in a Sheehan thread because I couldn't understand the lack of sympathy for Sheehan's family.

I still support Sheehan's action though, even if I disagree with some of her supporters.

As for the whole groupthink thing: seems to me that is a curse afflicting most political message boards -- hell, even some non-political ones.

Perspective is important, and it is best achieved by stepping away from the keyboard. I'm not putting myself forth as a role model in that area (far from it) but I do believe that is true.

[K8-EEE]

15. It's Just So NIce To See Somembody Stand Up To GWB!!!

God damn it Dem politicians, take note: PEOPLE LOVE THIS. Call the bastard out!

[eileen_d]

25. You're right, it is nice

I think she is a very brave person to do what she's doing.

[Caleb]

3. I agree with you

I posted how I didn't like her comments on Israel, and people here had a problem with that.

Is Cindy Sheehan beyond reproach?

[K8-EEE]

23. Is Israel Beyond Reproach?

I hate that anybody who criticizes the Israeli government is "anti-Semite." It's no differnt from calling people with a GWB problem "un-American."

[CubsFan1982]

26. No one said she was an anti-Semite.

Disagreeing with Israeli policy is not anti-Semitic, and the poster you replied to was not calling her that.

[Caleb]

28. Of course not!

Where did I say anything about anti-Semitism or Israel being beyond reproach?

[K8-EEE]

39. I Had Been Reading Freep Comments About It...

the corporate media is trying to paint her as anti-semitic. What did she say about Israel that was so out of line?

[Caleb]

44. Don't want to hijack this thread

There are numerous threads talking about her Israel comments.

[K8-EEE]

80. It Seems Fairly Obvious To Me....

that the Basque, Irish, Palestians have a lot of history in common and a lot of the things that were done to them are conducive to fostering desperation and terrorism. I'm Basque-American myself, I don't like violence but when people are totally frozen out of justice in their homeland things start goin' KaBoom.

[Scurrilous]

74. You did take pains...

...to link her to David Duke though:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=98446&mesg_id=98537

I'm sure this was done out of love for her cause. :thumbsup:

[Imagevision]

58. And we'll join Cindy in Washington...!

[FreedomAngel82]

4. And you know this is all real how???

I didn't know you knew the family so well. :eyes:

[CubsFan1982]

7. And obviously you do.

All I'm asking for is some perspective. Why is she beyond reproach?

[FreedomAngel82]

53. Because her personal life is none of your damn business

Just like it's none of mine. So butt the hell out.

[hiley]

59. No person is beyond reproach.

I am thankful for what Cindy is doing, however I most certainly can understand what you are saying.
Just because her son said something he was attacked that is crazy.
Everyone is human and no human is perfect.

[merh]

69. Then read the Times article that was linked in that thread and

try to gain some perspective.

The dissolution of the marriage and the struggles of that family happened because Casey was killed. He died in an illegal and immoral war. Cindy is trying to make the weed answer the question "why did he die, what is so nobel about this war, what about the DSM, what about your lies Mr. prezidip?"

She is doing what no one else will, she is demanding answers and accountability. She is more of an American than anyone of us, we post on a silly message board, she takes to the ditches of Crawford and she demands the truth. She has the eyes of the world upon her and she is trying to get real answers, not spins, not lies, but the truth.

Her family has suffered a terrible tragedy and it is because of the weed's illegal and immoral war. She stands for what she believes in and she doesn't mock the thread of the week or the cause of the week, she actually does something. If I could, I would be right there with her and I applaud all that stand with her, that give her encouragement and that admire her sacrifices. Her sacrifices are not just for herself, they are for her children, so that they don't have to fight in the illegal and immoral war. They are for our children, for our future, so that we have a nation to be proud of and not ashamed of.

If you want to discuss other matters, post them and keep the threads kicked and active. There is an election forum, go post there about the elections. Don't try to blow out the flame of hope that Cindy Sheehan has given the anti-war, anti-bush movement.

[BeTheChange]

47. Is this a canned response?

Ive seen it 3 times in 2 threads.

Do I have to know the Sheehan family to have an opinion? If that is the case, what's the deal with the bazillion other posts about Cindy in this forum?

[eleny]

5. I read here at DU that Rosa Parks called Cindy as a show of support

I can't find the thread just now. But if this is true, then I'll take my cue from Ms. Parks.

Take care.

[Erika]

17. Cindy is an articulate voice

against this insane and immoral war. I suggest those of you who have not lost their first born to an insane and immoral war, ask yourselves as why you choose to judge her.

[eleny]

45. Are you sure that you meant to respond to me?

You and I are in agreement.

[Erika]

I agree with you also

I must have gotten off a line. Sorry.

[eleny]

72. I was thinking maybe I didn't express myself clearly. Thanks!

:hi:

[FreedomAngel82]

Seriously?

Anybody else know about this? Also if you visit truthout.org's website and section on Ms. Sheehan you can see an interview with a guy named Rev. Johnson. He was the youngest person to march with Martin Luther King junior. Speaking of which: where is Jesse Jackson?

[eleny]

63. I found the link for you about Rosa Parks calling Cindy

Go here to Truthout http://www.truthout.org/cindy.shtml and see the pictures on the right hand side. Go down to the 19th photograph. It's one of Cindy in a sort of profile. She's wearing a white tee and a hat. The text under the photo is this:
"August 10, 2005 | Wearing a hat with supporting messages from friends, Cindy Sheehan of Vacaville, California, takes a moment's rest in the ditch on Wednesday. On Friday afternoon, she was contacted by Coretta Scott King and Rosa Parks."

[Generic Other]

52. Coretta Scott King and Rosa Parks called Cindy to offer support

I stand with Eleny, Rosa, Coretta and Cindy. Maybe you should just stand aside.

Coretta Scott King and Rosa Parks called Cindy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4336289&mesg_id=4336289

[FreedomAngel82]

57. Thanks

That must be pretty amazing to get a phone call from Rosa Parks!

[Generic Other]

64. And Maxine Waters was there today

Notice the gender of that "group" the OP is worried about?

[eleny]

70. "Cindyfest"

That says a lot.

[Mr_Spock]

6. What-ever

Your point is well taken, but I think you are overreacting. Hide all the treads if you don't want to talk about it.

[CubsFan1982]

8. I would, if I could.

But my clicking finger can't keep up with you people, that's my point. You're obsessed with her.

[Mr_Spock]

13. "you people"

Maybe you should take some time off - I've had to do that when the topic-DU-jour was disturbing to me too much. :D

[K8-EEE]

32. Good Idea....

Cindy's there for a month, for his vacation, you could take a vacation from DU if it's too much trouble to weed out the Cindy threads because the fact of the matter is this is a groundbreaking deal, her standing up to Bush and getting so much support, we're gonna talk about it.

[Mr_Spock]

48. Yeah, maybe the OP will decide to do this.

I'm enjoying the American tradition of standing up to our oppressors/fighing the "man" when he's wrong. This is a good and honorable cause for me - I'd go there if I could get away.

[pnorman]

9. I recall a comparison to Rosa Parks somewhere.

I thought that particularly apt, and posted that reference on my union BBS. As for the rest of your litany of complaints, I think you're making FAR too much of a relatively small group who don't really amount to much. The rest of the gang here pretty well ignores that chaff, and goes onto some really worthwhile give & take discussions. Feel free to elaborate on yours.

pnorman

[K8-EEE]

10. HERE IS WHAT I SUPPORT...

I support that she is holding Bush accountable for wasting all these lives FOR NO REASON and calling it a noble cause. Thousands and thousands of dead and maimed people FOR NOTHING and we need answers.

On her personal life, ex-husband, other children, etc. I have no comment, no opinion, nor do I think anybody else should.

[uppityperson]

24. Exactly.

well put.

[Montauk6]

11. But it's NOT just about a mother camped outside of Bush's ranch

It's about a woman who is taking directly to the source questions that SHOULD have been raised by the press, by the Democratic Senators and Congressmen (if they weren't so goddamned worried about the polls), by ALL parents who end up, as the song says, "send(ing) that boy off to die." And for Ms. Sheehan, it made her wanna holler and throw up both her hands.

Considering how leviathan The Machine is, what she's doing 1000% merits the praise she's getting. The scorn, ridicule and hatred that she has to endure in this fight; I don't know if I'd have the guts.

I guess I don't understand your rationale for rejecting Sheehan per se based on what other say about her. Ideally, you would want to judge what she's doing on its own merit. And it boils down to you agree with her or you don't agree with her. And if you don't agree with her, no skin off my toes.

[CubsFan1982]

22. I'm saying that the energy WE put into this on DU could be better spent.

If we are concerned with our Democratic Senators and Representatives' lack of support, then it's our responsibility to find ways to replace them with someone who will. Yet I don't see anyone volunteering to run for Congress.

My problem is that she has been deified to the point where nothing she does is wrong or with ulterior motive. When questions are raised about this person, the questioners are attacked. You don't see anything wrong with this picture?

[FreedomAngel82]

41. Did you forget

this is a message board?? If you don't like it don't read it! Good grief! Or make your own post's on something you'd like to talk about!

[Montauk6]

68. But we don't have to check for ulterior motive or THE DIRT..

The Machine is doing a more than adequate job for us.

But I agree that good-faith questions should not be greeted with hostility. I totally disagree with your statement and/or sentiments but I'm not about to flame you or insult you, it's not that kind of hangout, as far as I'm concerned. And the Moderators should be on the case if someone DOES personally attack you or anyone else with dissention; but even then, the rules state up front that this is not a conservative forum (not that your views are conservative per se).

I'm just sayin'...

[Generic Other]

97. Who's "we" kemosabe?

I have been collecting threads since early last week and I haven't seen you lift a finger to get involved. What the hell do you care what we are doing?

Join the throng or get the fuck outta the way.

[CubsFan1982]

102. Hmm, collecting threads or knocking on doors...

Which one is going to do more for the liberal cause? Posting on a liberal internet forum, of course! :eyes:

[beam me up scottie]

14. I agree.

Hand me one of those t-shirts with the target on it, will you?
Size small.

When no dissent is tolerated we have become our own enemy.

I don't imagine you are expecting your last sentence to be honored?

[Mr_Spock]

19. LOL - dissenting against supporting dissent - it's a circle :D

It's just making me chuckle - you can't please everyone most of the time.

[beam me up scottie]

56. I don't expect to be pleased.

And I think the lady has a story to tell and a message to send.
Perhaps this will start the movement everybody is hoping for.

But many seem to think of her as the new messiah.

I don't think other DUers should stop supporting her, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I've seen posters being crucified for asking a simple question.

It's like a feeding frenzy.

[Mr_Spock]

65. Scottie won't be beaming anybody up any time soon

:( - I guess I'm stuck on Vulcan for the duration!

I guess I can see some people feeling like this is overwhelming and not the kind of thing they want to support, but I'm not seeing the messiah thing - I am programmed to ignore silly over-the-top posts like that - I simply don't see them even though they are right in front of me. I've had to learn to have this "invisible" filter because there are just too many people here for me to agree with - I pick and choose my "type" of thread - just like I pick my friends in real life.

[beam me up scottie]

71. I get it, really.

I understand why so many support her but it is really scary when I see long time DUers accused of being freepers or told to shut up because their opinion is out of the mainstream.

Gad, some are doing it to the op in this thread.

[Mr_Spock]

76. I've run into those idiots here at times. Not worth it

to "take on" some of these jackasses. I've learned to ignore certain people too - they get factored into my filter. I've noticed some people I respect have a bad day from time to time - I just imply that tomorrow will be better if I want to help out, otherwise I ignore them until they feel better. There is no hope for some - and when something this encompassing shows up and you're not on board - go revive an old hobby you've been meaning to get back into. These type of treads are rarely satisfying to the OP.

[beam me up scottie]

79. If you're right, I just hope he lives long enough to regret it. :-D

[Mr_Spock]

82. You mean "lives" as in "doesn't get banned"

This doesn't usually happen to people who are having a bad day or really wanting to take on a popular DU "thing" like Cindy. The OP will decide what he/she wants to do in the long term...

[beam me up scottie]

92. No, I don't think he'll get banned unless

angry posters goad him into going too far.
I meant it metaphorically.

[SidDithers]

16. So, peoples behaviours surrounding Ms. Sheehan,...

something she has absolutely no control over, are more important to you than her own message and reasons for staging her protest?

OK...

Sid

[alittlelark]

18. I believe similar things were said about Rosa Parks and MLK

Similar statements were made regarding their movements.....

<"Mrs. Sheehan has, unfortunately, become the flavor of the week. If she ever gets her meeting with the President, she will be forgotten. We will move on to the next cause du jour, and that will be doing no service to her.">


Sometimes the flavor of the week carries over for YEARS.

[Montauk6]

46. OK, let's take Rosa and Dr. King off the table, so to speak.

Could we all, perhaps, agree that maybe Sheehan merits comparison to, say, John Kerry, circa 1971? He too posed a mighty question, "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?" It was a powerful question then and REMAINS a powerful question TO THIS DAY.

[mondo joe]

20. You can't support her because too many other DUers do?

That's pretty silly, IMO.

Is that what liberalism is about?

[Fovea]

21. Ok, then don't

I don't know how she will muddle on without your support, but I suspect she will try, somehow.

Perhaps the circle the wagons mentality is a reaction to the Rovian poo flinging of the right.

You seem concerned with the solidarity more than the reason for the solidarity. The solidarity is not a bad thing, per se. If she gets a meeting with ** and goes home content, the unity she has catalized will not evaporate, it will simply seek new outlets.

The goal remains the same... requiring those responsible for this wholly unecessary debacle to be held responsible both morally and legally. Does that goal trouble you?

But taking your point about other points of view into consideration, would you like to reiterate some other points of view for us to consider regarding asking ** to be responsive to Ms. Sheehan?

[Erika]

35. Great post

Cindy is as needed in today's time as Rosa Parks was in her time.

(I wonder if any democrats stuck their nose into Rosa Park's personal life for possible put-downs) and then broadcast them. I knew the right was trying to defame any protester.

[BiggJawn]

27. So why are you punishing Cindy for the actions of a few...

...Liberal Kool-Aid drinkers.

Yes, we got 'em too.

Support or not support. It's (for a little while yet) still a free country.

I just don't follow your rationale. Reminds me of a slacker telling me he wasn't going to vote "in order to send a message"...

[FreedomAngel82]

51. If you don't want to support

who cares? Just don't bitch about it. Good grief. Don't read the post's or stay in a certain part of DU that you enjoy if it's not the GD section. :eyes: Go to GD politics where it's 2008 or the lounge or something. Good grief.

[beam me up scottie]

66. Why can't someone "bitch about it"?

I thought everyone was entitled to their opinion?

This is EXACTLY what the op is talking about.

Disagree with him but don't tell him to shut up.
He's certainly not telling you to do that.

[Armstead]

29. How others react should have no effect on your support

I understand your unease about the extent of attention focused on Cindy Sheehan, and some of the other responses you mentioned.

However, that has nothing to do with whether you personally support her or not. The only thing that should matter to you is how you feel about her as a person and her mission and message, and its' impact on the larger debate over the war and related subjects.

If you support what she is doing on its own terms (and her own terms) then she deserves your support, no matter how others react. On the otehr hand, if you disapprove of her cause for valid reasons about her or what she is doing, that's your right too.

However to announce that you cannot support her because the way otehr people here choose to express themselves seems misguided.

[CubsFan1982]

50. Her supporters are also her messengers.

Sometimes, the message can be lost or twisted into something it is not. As someone who gets most of his news from DU and the internet, when I see competing stories about her and the attention from the right wing and the attacks on her family, etc., I tend to lose focus from her message. People remember inflammatory things - peace in Iraq is not inflammatory, but calling her son sexist is - people remember that.

That's all I'm saying.

[mondo joe]

60. You might consider SUPPORTING GW Bush on the same rationale.

After all, the many who support Cindy are also opposed to Bush and just as zealously.

If they determine who you'll support in your efforts to differ with them, you ought to be out there supporting *.

Honestly, it's the same logic.

[Pirate Smile]

77. Get upset at the people who called the son sexist, not her and it is

certainly not everyone on the Board.

I read the Time article and can feel for the entire family, including the son who just wants his Mom and the Husband who grieves differently. Their is no "right" way to act when you lose someone. They are all doing what they feel they have to do.

Really, count the number of people who posted the stuff that pissed you off, that isn't all of DU.

Some of us just ignore the threads that piss us off or are too busy and miss some of the flair ups.

Sometimes a little perspective can do wonders, and a break can help a lot too OR go post in the Lounge about what crazy people are in GD.

I think you need a :hug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. If you can't see why Cindy is a heroine

I don't know what to tell you.

She has drawn the attention so many of us have been hoping for to a cause we feel pretty strongly about.

No one is calling her a saint or infallible.

What she is doing and how she is doing it is one of the most awesome things I have seen in a long time.

If you think this is all hype, you are certainly free to have that opinion.

You are also free to stay out of the discussions about Cindy. Just sayin . . .

[WCGreen]

31. I agree about the deification

But CS is really just a simple woman with a simple message.....

This is what moves people about her....

She is standing up as an example that we all must take a stand. We all must not remain silent anymore....

As for the round robins here and on other boards...

We all know that life goes on, baseball games still get played, people go on vacation, they work, they live, they love and they die....

But somehow, someway, a simple woman is making the people divert there attention and look around and see what this "war" is doing to our country.....

I lived through the ass end of the vietnam war, I protested in my Junior High.... The tipping point had already occured....

CS is "our" tipping point. She will either energize the antiwar sentiment in this country or the Bush propaganda machine will succeed in vilifying her and, by extension, the cause of peace....

It is a moment we should all be keenly aware of.....

[Horse with no Name]

33. That's your perogative.

But since Cindy Sheehan isn't at all responsible for what is written on this message board, I can't see withdrawing support from her cause unless you are just using it for an excuse.
She has no say about what happens here and if that is the only reason you decided to "pull support", then my take is that you probably didn't support her in the first place. Which again, is totally your perogative.
But don't use her as a reason to vent your frustrations for DU.
If you can't see the importance of what she is doing--hey--eyes wide shut and all that.
Everything is symbiotic. It all links together--stealing the election, 911, the memos, the lies, the outing of a CIA agent. It was all done for the sole purpose of going to fight a boondoggle war in Iraq so that we would control the Iraqi oil and steal money off the top.
If ONE grieving mother can bring that point home--then she has my undying gratitude and support and I don't give a fuck what anyone on a message board has to comment on one way or the other.

[Journeyman]

34. Thanks for sharing. . .

I always welcome hearing contrary opinions.

There's much I can't agree with in your post, and yet, there's a great deal you say that has validity. It is an unfortunate aspect of this board that a vast majority throws its support behind the issue du jour, debate and contrary opinion is stifled, and a disturbing group-think takes hold of many people. Not everyone, but a good number.

I continue to support Ms Sheehan in her efforts and -- more than anything -- hope her protest isn't overshadowed by a plethora of competing voices. So far, she appears to have avoided that fate. I wish her well and hope all voices -- even competing ones -- will continue to back her effort even if they can't bring themselves to support Ms Sheehan's advocates.

[steve2470]

36. I support her in whatever course of action she chooses

I think her current stand is really wonderful, both for her and her country. I do think it will be good for her family eventually. However, if she decides to return home to tend to family matters, I support that also. If her son and daughter are appealing for her return, I can understand why she would want to go home. I do have a problem with that TIME article, because it just seems a bit too slanted towards the right for me.

I separate Cindy from her supporters. I think they are two distinct "entities", to use a cold term. You may wish to consider this approach. I respect your decision either way.

[seabeyond]

37. kick ass post,... but... i continue to support her with all my heart

i appreciate all she sacrifices. i dont need to analyze her family or her. i appreciate the voice she speaks out with, it is what all of us have been saying for a couple years and it has not been heard. it is being heard now. i appreciate and thank all the supporters and the people providing money and driving across country to add their voice

i support cindy sheehan and all involved

and i agree 100% with your post. very very good.

[ugarte]

38. Who cares if you support her?

Maybe your support was never there to be had anyway, know what I mean?

[deadparrot]

40. I understand your views,

and I agree with them, to a point.

As someone above mentioned, Rosa Parks and (I believe) Coretta Scott King have contacted Cindy. That, I think, is from where a lot of the comparisons come.

How/If history will remember Cindy Sheehan remains to be seen. I'll just say that hers is a story that is developing at a dangerous time for the Bush administration. Of course, it's happened before, and nothing serious in terms of public backlash has resulted.

I have voiced support for Cindy, but I also understand her son's point of view. He's got a lot on his plate right now, and I find it sickening how so many people are demonizing him based on one sentence. Aren't we, as liberals, the ones who can see shades of grey in most arguments?

But please don't say you can't support Cindy Sheehan simply because of the careless and/or cruel remarks made by others. Your point that she is human is one of her greatest strengths, in my mind. She's human, a woman whose child was murdered, and she wants to know why. Please don't let that original message be tainted by others.

[Warren DeMontague]

42. Thanks for your input

Clearly, there are many, many people who are irked by all the attention she's getting. Of course, most of them are in the GOP.

But your thoughtful comments on how we should approach the matter are certainly constructive.

[CC]

43. I would not let

those that might go over board deter me from supporting her. I support her because she has a right to get answers from the source and is standing up to the supposed most powerful man in the world. (Idiot that he is.) I also understand her wanting answers and focusing on Casey to the supposed detriment of the rest of the family. We all grieve differently and we all figure out our own way to come to terms with death, specially the loss of a child. Until you have been there you cannot understand. I support her because she is a mom whose son was killed senselessly and she is trying to make some sense out of it.

[Turn CO Blue]

49. I propose it's the MOMENTUM that everyone is excited

about, not Cindy specifically -- especially as all these events we've been carefully fanning the flames of seem to be snow-balling to some big bang in the next two months (such as Plame-gate indictments before October, the dropping approval polls which should hit below 40% within a month or so, and the Abu Graib pics that may be released in a month or so, also the huge rallies in DC in 4-5 weeks. I've noticed more and more anti-bush, pro-liberal stories and op-eds being published in the M$M -- we are gaining MOMENTUM. We are finding our way, our voice.

I get the feeling that it's all going to converge in the next few weeks.

No one finds Cindy infallible -- but her soft-spoken yet straight-forward speaking style (calling a jerk, a jerk, like Howard Dean tends to do) -- coupled with her humanity is red meat to this hope-starved crowd.

I really don't see any harm in people getting excited about it, really. As Arianna pointed out -- Cindy has been stepping into the "leadership void" on the pro-peace, out-of-Iraq issue. And I for one, appreciate all the voices and FOCUS on that front we can get.

[enigmatic]

54. I support her, and you should, too

Don't let groupthink color your perception on Cindy; she has nothing to do w/ it.

Take a break from GD; it always works for me.

[girl gone mad]

55. I haven't seen what you say you've seen...

to any large extent.

Even if I do, it won't cause me to stop supporting Cindy in her efforts to ask Bush to end the war and bring the troops home.

If she starts another cause that I don't agree with, I won't support her.

It's really that simple to me.

Edit: would you like someone to help pay for a ticket to TX so you can visit Camp Casey? Because that's kind of the vibe I'm getting. No offense intended if I'm wrong. Honestly.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. How I support cindy

I send the money they need, I don't get involved in the soap opera.

By the way, she will most likely be a women that our grandchildren will read about in history classes, but they will not care about what was said, or not, at DU... overall

I would have supported Doctor King if I were alive at the time, or old enough.

Definitely I would have supported Ghanhi... and Cindy may (I use the term may for history will have to judge yet) be in that category. This is non violent resistance.

As to her son.. I am sorry for her son, I sympathize with his son, but I will tell you something I learned many years ago.. EVERYBODY, yes even you, has an agenda. I will not even want to fathom what the kid's agenda is... for what some are saying may be far from it, but everybody has an agenda.

[readmylips]

62. My...aren't we fickle...

Mrs. Sheehan may be the flavor of the week but we don't see any elected leader in the front lines leading the fight for our dead soldiers. Great job Mrs. Sheehan. I take two scoops of chocolate.

[carpetbagger]

67. What else have we done that's led the evening news.

First, I'm not taking credit on behalf of DU or myself for Sheehan's actions. However, I think our time in Crawford, mine included, was damn well spent. You can't buy this publicity.

As to elections, I live in a gerrymandered district which is safely republican, and John Kerry didn't exactly have a chance down here. This is the best I can do locally.

Also, no one's motives are pure. Not even the leftist saints (Gandhi, Roosevelt, King, etc.).

[omega minimo]

73. Righteousness inspires ridicule?

Veterans of previous wars fought for your freedom to not care about whatever you care to not care about; the freedom to judge others for their use of their time; for you to have the time to have the freedom to have the time to judge others for their use of their freedom and their time.

Veterans of this war fought a war of choice and acquisition, for the profiteering global pirates who set up camp in the Oval Office.

"This is overkill, pure and simple."

Comparing overkill over Camp Casey to Bushco's overkill seems a bit petty, hmmmmmm?

How's college going?

:hi:

("re-analyze" is that a word?)

[City Lights]

75. So you no longer support her because you don't like the way some

of her supporters are behaving? Rather than stop supporting Cindy, maybe you should distance yourself from the supporters that have rubbed you the wrong way. Why punish Cindy for something beyond her control? :shrug:

[nofurylike]

78. i don't care if daddy is a senator! i want him right here! with me! home

where a fit daddy should be!!

BAD daddy!!

:sarcasm:

[Montauk6]

81. Oh, I just thought of something (not that this'll change your mind)

Think back a couple of years. Remember around the time of the start of the war, ALL those anti-war rallies. Remember how the MSM did their best to downplay them. And I'm sure that the rallies have continued around the country to zero coverage (with the possible exception of C-Span). Even the Democrats ignored the antiwar movement, for all intent and purposes, during the '04 Campaign (zero mention at the convention).

I applaud the mere fact that Sheehan forced the antiwar movement onto the front page FINALLY.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

84. Perfect. You are hoping the op gets flamed and/or banned.

For having the gall to disagree with your point of view.

[omega minimo]

99. Well honestly, Beam, what the hell are we talking about?

Were there misunderstandings going on as usual or actual groupthink-- or is the rush of good feeling and awe over recent events just too tempting not to stick a pin into? The threads I've seen have been absent any "Kool-Aid drinkers" so I don't know....

Why can't he just go on and do all those important things he thinks DUers should be doing instead of talking about something he chooses to dismiss, then diss?

Ya know?

:bounce:

[omega minimo]

85. "It's the stupidity, stupid"

:evilgrin: Isn't anyone gonna point out that this is a total waste of time that the OP urged was better spent on pursuits other than Cindy diefication?

:patriot: So many died for our right to be spoiled brats with superiority complexes!

[nofurylike]

89. yes! well said! agree! eom

[eileen_d]

90. Her son isn't entitled to his own opinion?

Or for that matter, his own private grief for his dead brother?

I'm not a Christian, but for God's sake: Judge not lest ye be judged.

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

103. Actually, you couldn't have paid someone

to better illustrate your point.
For posters who haven't seen that attitude before,
there it is, in all its glory.

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

104. as a mother i would not have that expectation of my son

and as a mother, as in if cindy is reading this post, i would be pissed some unknown talked about my son this way. wow.

hm

i would prefer to stay out of cindy's personal life. i dont know why anyone feels comfortable smack in the middle of it.

we can certainly support cindy without judging her people, i would think

[Marlie]

86. Cindy has more guts than any of us

She decided on her own, with little or no support from anyone,
to go camp out in a ditch for her son and others. We all sit
in the comfort of our homes and credit or discredit her but would
any of us had have the courage to do what she did? Bet not. A lot
of us here at DU are good at talking about issues but Cindy actually
did something and now because she has gained some momentum, both her
and her motives are being questioned. Well, say what you want, she
will always be a hero to me and I just wish more Americans had just
half of her tenacity as the World would be a far better place.

[nofurylike]

101. well said! eom

[Catholic Sensation]

87. This needed to be said

The posters on this message board have taken their positions on the Cindy Sheehan saga, and for some, anything but absolute adoration and love for Ms. Sheehan is taken as pure unadulterated hatred for her, and support for the war. Some of us, myself included, support the idea that Ms. Sheehan should get answers for her son's death, and explain why she doesn't agree with what the President did in March of 2003. However, we don't believe that she should be made into some launching pad for something other than her own reconciliation.

We don't think she should be compared to Jesus, Mandela, Martin Luther King, and Gandhi, because the struggles each of them went through are unique. She's a wonderful woman for trying to end the potential suffering many other mother's will go to, and I support her (though I don't believe in bringing our troops home without Iraq being stable) for doing this. Her supporters on this board that I refered to earlier, however, will get nothing but absolute scorn from me for using this woman as a litmus test for one's liberalism and loyalty to the Democratic Party. Fanaticism turns more people off than brings them in.

[Lars39]

95. So you don't believe she has jump started a movement?

Interesting.

[CubsFan1982]

96. That's not what he was talking about.

I resent having my credentials as a liberal questioned because I question why this lady is out there doing what she's doing.

[Catholic Sensation]

100. I think she taken to a new level what has been going on since March 03

with the protesting of our invasion of Iraq. Going to the President's hometown and demanding a meeting is a new level in what used to be isolated meetings throughout the country.

However I think other people have used her to jumpstart their own movements, some of which look like McCarthyite witchhunts for "freepers" on this board.

[rockymountaindem]

88. Hey, at this website a lot of people think

that every problem the Bush administration encounters is going to be *the* thing that brings him down.

People like that have gotten so desperate that they think, somehow, that Cindy Sheehan's protest is going to make Bush look so bad that *this* is going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

They don't realize that these things are all denting Bush, not making him break down. This isn't a parliamentary system where if things get bad enough we can have new elections. Like it or not, Bush is going to be in office for the next 3.5 years. Yes, that sucks and we should do whatever we can to blunt his agenda during that time. But please realize, no matter what he will not be impeached or forced to resign.

And even if the 1 in a million shot comes through and he is impeached, it will not be Cindy Sheehan's doing.

I hope she gets her meeting, and I like seeing the administration squirm, but some people are really taking it too far.

[BeTheChange]

93. I agree with you on alot of this..

but, I do think that what Cindy is doing will help prevent the escalation of this war into Iran. I really do. It helps to raise the consciousness of the country. The pictures of the crosses make the number less ethereal to the american public.. The heartbreak of a mother makes it harder for the people to dissassociate.

I dont think that this is going to bring down the adminstration, but it will help unite the people. Maybe it will be that congealling point that we need to really get the DSM, plame, siebel, etc out there and actually heard.

[Liberal In Texas]

98. OK..You're FLAMED...Gee...let's start...

<stoke up the charcoal> and bring out the hot dogs....

1) Are you drunk?

2) and if not for certain circumstances errr... what are those exactly?

3) The excess attention paid her by certain groups on this forum is almost frightening

Let's break this down...

a) Excess Attention. As opposed to WHAT? This is a huge story for Democrats and progressives. Have you been living in a cave?

b) Certain Groups. ....on this forum. Now you Mr Cubs, think that there are certain groups here at DU that like to make "excess attention" on some people or stories more than others? Yeah, I'm a member of a certain group on DU. We have secret groups, don't you know? <the corn is heavy...pass it on..>

c) frightening...Yes we libs are that.

d) I can't support Mrs. Sheehan. because of the above statements. HUH? The ABOVE STATEMENTS make you sick and turn away? Dead soldiers in Iraq and perhaps hundreds or thousands of civilians dead are OK.
Got ya.

4)Witness what happened in a thread dealing with her son asking her to come home to be with their family at a stressful and psychologically wrenching time. Her son is vilified as a sexist, misogynist bastard for wanting his mother to be close to the family. That's out of line. We are the first ones to complain when innocent victims are assaulted, yet we do the same thing. That makes us no better than our opposition.
....umm hello there...YOU CANNOT PROVIDE ONE PIECE OF PROOF, I DEFY YOU.

5)I like this quote:

When 90% of the threads on the first page have SOMETHING to do with Mrs. Sheehan, that's overkill, and that is the reason I can't support her anymore.
Excuse me? Because DU is on about Ms Sheehan, you can't support her?
Yes popularity and timeliness are pretty bad.

6) I have seen her compared to Rosa Parks...
Do you know this is a Hannity talking point? And Mister, do you know she was called by Rosa Parks and given her seal of approval?

As far as the rest of your missive, it's banal and full of misdirection.

[jobycom]

105. Two things: First, there's a difference between groupthought and a group

whose members already have similar thoughts.

And rejecting a thought just because a lot of other people hold it is the same thing as groupthought. You aren't forming your own thought: you're letting the group's thoughts define yours.

Just disagreeing with you, not attacking you.

[The Magistrate]

107. Locking

This has become a flame-war.