Doesn't it piss you off when conservatives call hitler a leftist?

[Michael_UK]

Not only is it not true, but even if it were, it's completely irrelevant. I've just been getting hot under the collar with some rightwingers recently

[Not_Giving_Up]

1. It pisses me off whenever a conservative opens his or her mouth

All that comes out is bullshit.

[Crankie Avalon]

2. Not really, since it's so obviously and ridiculously false...

...if there were actually even a small case for a claim like that, I might feel differently, but, as it is, I just laugh at the ignorance of the person tryong to make the statement.

[meegbear]

3. Yeah! I thought leftists were communists ...

talk about people who flip-flop.

[endarkenment]

6. The standard argument is

that as the official name of the nazi party was National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP) they were socialists. This argument is, to put it mildly, simplistic. Of course pointing out that your opponent is an idiot might make you feel good, but it rarely wins points or debates. So, some facts are in order. First, despite the use of the term Socialist in their name, the NSDAP was ardently opposed to the soclialist and communist parties in Germany, and when it came to power it of course arrested and executed the leadership and quite a few of the rank and file members of both parties. Second, the NSDAP did not practice economic socialism, it practised economic fascism.

"In an economic sense, Nazism and Fascism are related. Nazism shares many economic features with Fascism, featuring complete government control of finance and investment (allocation of credit), industry, and agriculture. Yet in both of these systems, corporate power and market based systems for providing price information still existed.

Rather than the state requiring goods from industrial enterprises and allocating raw materials required for their production (as in socialist/communist systems), the state paid for these goods. This allows price to play an essential role in providing information as to relative scarcity of materials, or the capital requirements in technology or labor (including education, as in skilled labor) inputs to produce a manufactured good. Additionally, the unionist (strictly speaking, syndicalist) veneer placed on corporate labor relations was another major point of agreement. Both the German and Italian fascist political parties began as unionist labor movements, and grew into totalitarian dictatorships. This idea was maintained throughout their time in power, with state control used as a means to eliminate the assumed conflict between management labor relations."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi

Economically this is not socialism. In no sense other than the use of the term 'Socialist' in their name, was the NSDAP a left wing party.

[Touchdown]

18. Good work, but it needs simplification.

Remember who we would be talking too in these instances. And easier argument is this one.

"Have you ever heard of Orwellian doublespeak? They may have had the term "socialist" in their party name, but they were far from using socialist policies. It's the same as the German Democratic Republic (DDR) later on. By the words alone, East Germany should have been a bright, shining example of rule by and for the people, with accountability in representation, much like the United States. Why wasn't it? It has all the right words in it?" :shrug:

[endarkenment]

25. I've used that one as well. Simple and to the point.

it depends on the audience how deep you want to go with the debunking of this nonsense. If you are debating an innocent who doesn't know his history, giving them the background might actually chip away at their internal confidence in their ideology. If you are debating a dishonest freeptard, the semantic rhetort with the GDR example generally leaves them sputtering, claiming that that's not fair or not the same thing or descending into personal attacks or attempting to change the subject: the usual admissions of freeptard defeat.

[Hubert Flottz]

26. But chipping away is what we must do!

There are some GOPers who are starting to open their eyes! It's better than throwing up your hands and joining the sheep!

[zbdent]

7. That would mean that the leftists defeated the leftists

Mind-boggling, ain't it?

The Russians were knockin on Hitler's door. The Russians were the leftists.

Hitler, the "leftist", was cowering in a bunker.

:crazy:

[jmowreader]

4. Well, to THEM he was a leftist

When you are further to the right than Adolf Hitler, and figure that anyone who's to the left of you is a "leftist," then obviously Hitler was a leftist.

Now, who's further to the right than Hitler? Turn on Faux News and wait till Ann Coulter comes on. Or Hannity. Turn on the radio and listen for Limbaugh, Ollie, Liddy...

[MalibuChloe]

12. invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to...

christianity...

i believe ann coulter said that. or was it hitler? hmmm.

[jmowreader]

27. That was Ann Coulter

Hitler didn't have to say it. He actually went out and did it.

Well, maybe not the "converting them to Christianity" part; the countries he invaded were full of Christians already.

[YOY]

5. Possibly because they think this because...

his party was (after all) the National Socialists. Of course it was focused 99% on the National and 1% on the Socialism part.

Then again they throw around the words 'freedom' and 'democracy' quite a bit and as I recall we are a Democratic Republic.

[kiki]

8. Yeah, that Hitler...

Hated Jews and other non-whites.
Hated homosexuals.
Hated intellectuals and "liberals".
Hated organised labour.
Loved war.
Loved religion.

Why, it's practically a checklist of left-wing attitudes...
:eyes:

[Hubert Flottz]

9. People who say that crap, are too lazy to read up on the Nazis!

Propaganda experts like KKKarl Rove and Joseph Goebbels use things to throw their victims, or their targets, off the trail of the truth! Phrases like "No Child Left Behind" but what they were hiding with that phrase, was the fact that Bush was gutting public education in the US. The Nazis did the very same thing when they included the word "socialist" in the name of their party, to trick people, who they knew were too lazy and dumb, to ever search out the facts.

To see how much the Nazis were "FOR SOCIALISM", as the right wingers claim, go and read up on who the very first people Hitler rounded up and murdered after the Reichstag fire, REALLY were. Look at who the Nazis blamed for the Reichstag fire. Look at what happened to the people and political groups, that Hitler blamed in the days and weeks following the Reichstag fire.

We all know, that the knee-jerk GOPers are too lazy and ignorant, to study anything, but how to get over on, or take advantage of, someone weaker then they are! The Right wing in the US today and the Nazis in Germany were and are, driven by exactly the same motives...POWER and GREED!

Reichstag Fire

On 27th February the Reichstag caught fire. When they police arrived they found Marinus van der Lubbe on the premises. After being tortured by the Gestapo he confessed to starting the Reichstag Fire. However he denies that he was part of a Communist conspiracy. Hermann Goering refuses to believe him and he orders the arrest of several leaders of the German Communist Party (KPD).

When Hitler heard the news about the fire he gave orders that all leaders of the German Communist Party should "be hanged that very night." Paul von Hindenburg vetoed this decision but did agree that Hitler should take "dictatorial powers". KPD candidates in the election were arrested and Hermann Goering announced that the Nazi Party planned "to exterminate" German communists.

As well as Marinus van der Lubbe the German police charged four communists with setting fire to the Reichstag. This included Ernst Torgler, the chairman of the KPD and Georgi Dimitrov of the Soviet Comintern.

Marinus van der Lubbe was found guilty of the Reichstag Fire and was executed on 10th January, 1934. Adolf Hitler was furious he rest of the defendants were acquitted and he decided that in future all treason cases were taken from the Supreme Court and given to a new People's Court where prisoners were judged by members of the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP).

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERreichstagF.htm


The Reichstag Burns

snip>

"You are now witnessing the beginning of a great epoch in German history...This fire is the beginning," Hitler told a news reporter at the scene.

After viewing the damage, an emergency meeting of government leaders was held. When told of the arrest of the Communist arsonist, Van der Lubbe, Hitler became deliberately enraged.

"The German people have been soft too long. Every Communist official must be shot. All Communist deputies must be hanged this very night. All friends of the Communists must be locked up. And that goes for the Social Democrats and the Reichsbanner as well!"

Hitler left the fire scene and went straight to the offices of his newspaper, the Völkischer Beobachter, to oversee its coverage of the fire. He stayed up all night with Goebbels putting together a paper full of tales of a Communist plot to violently seize power in Berlin.

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/burns.htm

People who are too lazy and stupid, to want to know the truth, really "DON'T CARE"! They "don't care" about their Country, their family, God, or the future of their children. They(the neocons and freepers)DO CARE about money and their power over you and me and covering their own selfish asses and they will lie to you, cheat you and steal from you...they will even murder you and your children,(ask Cindy)to get what they want...

If Jerry and Pat and that Doktor Dodson fool, support and condone people like Bush, then they too are nothing but EVIL liars and criminals also. Preachers of evil, who help spread the lies and deception, that people like Ann and Rush vomit forth, do not represent Christianity! If they were true men of faith, they would be on the next plane to Baghdad to HELP PEOPLE. They are afraid to test their faith, because they know, in their own greedy selfserving hearts, that in their quest for personal power and personal wealth, they have broken most of the ten commandments, over and over. If the people the Freepers look up to, are as fucked up as Bush and his lying enabler are,(shepherds) then how on Earth, would one expect anything better out of the sheep!

[Mr_Spock]

10. They are trying to deflect from their being described as Nazi's

They think a good defense is a good offense. They are simply offensive to me :D

[Hubert Flottz]

11. You are exactly right!

It's an old PR trick!

Folks, we need to keep this kicked up and try and debunk this outright LIE, about the Nazis being ANYTHING like the left!

I'm nominating this thread And I ask others to do the same.

[Swamp Rat]

15. While y'all take care of that, I will call THEM what THEY really are:

Red Commie Bushevik Alien Lizard Drones. :D

[Stirk]

13. They always base the claim on the word "socialist" in the Nazi title.

It's very easy to counter. Just ask if the Soviet Union was a Republic, and point out the word "republic" in the name. Do the same for the Peoples' Republic of China. And Vietnam.

That "Hitler was a leftist" claim is almost too ridiculous to even address.

[VTMechEngr]

28. UH, they are republics.

Republic is any government that is not ruled by a Monarch. The US is a Democratic Republic, vs an islamic one, etc

[MalibuChloe]

14. Did Hitler ever personally kill anyone?

My Wingnut co-worker gets really pissed when I call Bush a murderer because he orders people to their deaths, which is exactly what Hitler did. So if Hitler didn't personally kill anyone, according to her logic he was not a murderer.

[Touchdown]

20. The rumor goes that he shot Ernst Roehm.

The leader of the SA (Brownshirt stormtroopers) because of the machevellian works of Himmler, who wanted his SS to take charge. It was reportedly easy to get rid of the brownshirts, since they were supposedly all homosexual, so they just killed them while they were in bed, a putsch called "The Night of the Long Knives". But as with anything Hitler, this could have been propaganda to make Hitler look more "manly" by doing some killing himself, as was the assertion that the entire SA was a big gay orgy club.

[Hubert Flottz]

22. I read somewhere, that Hitler did witness some executions...

in the days following the failed attempt to kill him with a bomb, in 1944. The Nazis strung up the people they killed at that time, with piano wire and hung them on meat hooks.

What gets me...is how our own people tortured POWs in Iraq and then the Repub party members here, tried to play it down as a "simple frat prank".

Let's see what happens if we place the electrodes on what little balls Rush has and shoot the 220 to him, live on the radio. Would he think it was funny or cute then?(he'd prolly like it) A bag over his head would be a blessing, I will not argue that!

[WMliberal]

29. well, he was a front-line soldier in WWI. I'd only assume so...

[MojoXN]

16. These r-tards want to have their cake and eat it too.

ANYONE who they don't like is a leftist. Especially Communists.

MojoXN

[KarenInMA]

17. If I called myself a unicorn, that wouldn't mean I'd grow a horn.

[tjwash]

19. Set the way back machine for Germany in the thirties.

The Nazis have come to power. The problem is, they don't have full control over the peoples hearts and minds yet. What followed was an unrelenting campaign, which included making labor unions illegal, imprisoning socialists and communists, and intimidated liberals, educators, homosexuals, Jews and immigrants in an unyielding propaganda blitz.

Sounds more like a Rush Limbaugh / Shawn Hannity wet dream to me...

[RandomKoolzip]

21. Huh.

One dumbshit radio talk show host remembers that Hitler called his party "Socialist" and suddenly now everyone to the left of Michael Ledeen is a Nazi. Innit great how that works?


It doesn't piss me off. Rather, it makes me lower my head and shake it slowly in recognition of someone who chooses to be so ignorant.

Here:

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-hitler.htm

[PurityOfEssence]

23. If National Socialism is socialistic, then Soviet Republics are Republican

The like to use the word "socialism" as proof; remind them that it's "National Socialism". It was fascism, the blending of corporatism and government. Everything about it was right-wing: destroying unions, crushing dissent, enslaving workers so the rich can become richer and using religion to keep things in line.

Hitler hated communism more than anything except possibly the Jews, and one of the things that really got him wound up was its atheism.

[Hubert Flottz]

24. RIGHT Great Point...

How many of Saddam's Republican Guards voted for Bush?(probably all of them, since they did choose to follow a dictator, just like Rush and Ann have choosen to!)

[FreedomAngel82]

30. Yes

It's so untrue. :eyes: Of course they don't like history so they re-write their own.

[RagAss]

31. I guess that would make Stalingrad a war game between allies.