What happens when democracy fails to materialize?

[Patsy Stone]

How will the NeoCons continue to spin this war of choice after an Iraqi constitution fails to materialize? How will they justify not allowing the majority to decide that they want to have a theocracy? That they want to curb women's rights and scientific research? That they choose not to have a secular government?

If the constitution is ratified, yet a civil war breaks out after we leave, what then? What is the cost-benefit analysis? It's a zero sum game as we all know, but to have it disintegrate in front of them so spectacularly surely requires a new "game plan".

What will the NeoCons say? What will their next lame talking point be?

We've already been fed two or three reasons our troops needed to go and fight in Iraq -- all have failed in logical tests and have been proven to be lies. When the last reason, democracy, falls away, what happens?

What will it take for the people still blindly following the script the BFEE and PNAC have been playing out to stand with us and with Cindy and the other families suffering because of this poorly conceived and horrendously planned grab for oil, to hold * accountable? To require Rummy and Condi and all the other automatons tell the truth and stop their evil lies?

Will it take indictments? Resignations? Impeachment proceedings? War crime tribunals? What, if anything, will do it?

There's been so little coverage in the corporate media of the failure to work out the differences between the Sunnis, Shiite's and Kurds I'm not sure people even know that any modicum of success in Iraq --as measured by the NeoCons at least -- is about to slip away.

I, for one, plan to share this news today with as many people as possible. Won't you join me? It's up to us.

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. Notice how much Joe Q Public cares about Afghanistan these days.

Not saying you shouldn't speak up. You should. Just that the sheeple have a lot of wool stuffed in their ears.

[Patsy Stone]

4. I think the wool is starting to fall out

The poll numbers suck. People are talking around the water coolers and gas pumps.

I've read several stories this weekend about conversations with neighbors and freepers and the people who don't think about politics on a daily basis -- and all of them were positive encounters. They focused on the growing displeasure with the lies and the murder and the stupidity. Most were unprovoked discussions.

I do plan to speak up, and I understand your point about Afghanistan. In my part of the world, we haven't forgotten about Afghanistan, or the fact that OBL is no longer on the "Things To Do" list, and maybe that makes me lucky. There are still plenty of people around here who believe in the words and deeds of this regime. They are my intended audience.

[slay]

2. It is indeed up to us

So the media have betrayed us and our elections are riddled with fraud. So what? Do we lie down and roll over? No. Not just no, hell no! When the outlook is the darkest is when we must fight the hardest. The future of not only this country, but the world is at at stake. Our message is the winning message - of that I have no doubt. It's not going to be easy, but if we stay true to ourselves and refuse to compromise with these NeoCon bastards, we will surely win. Let's show them how REAL Democrats play ball.

[Patsy Stone]

3. Excellent.

I'm under no delusions that what I say today will change the outlook for the troops still serving, or for the Iraqis killed everyday while trying to learn to defend their country, in any immediate way.

I do believe that people need to understand that just because they don't see things on their TeeVees doesn't mean things aren't happening.

Even if the media wakes up (which they may be starting to, albeit slowly) and starts taking their responsibility to the "sanctity" of public airwaves (always so important a topic during any conversation of censorship, yet, oddly, not so important when it comes to reporting the truth) and to the public discourse regardless of the medium, we have no other choice.

We are on the correct side of this discussion as you say. Don't forget that it's often difficult to stand up for what's right instead of going along with what's easy. I hope someone calls me a name. I'm in a fightin' mood.

[slay]

6. DU is a great place for real people to get real news

I try and tell people during political discussions that the corporate media is not telling them the whole story - then I point them here. I tell them whether or not they agree with the liberal slant of DU (and I couldn't agree more), at least they can be assured of getting uncensored news supplemented with honest discussion by caring people.

You're right about it being hard to fight the CNN talking heads. I think the best we can do is encourage people to have an open mind and to think for themselves. I'm in a fighting mood too and my weapons are knowledge, honestly, a desire to see a better future for ALL people, and love. With people like you on our side Patsy Stone, we can't help but win. :)

[Patsy Stone]

8. Thanks for that

And don't forget to give yourself props also. We all make the difference. The truth will come out. NGU!

[zanne]

5. Gazing into my crystal ball....

I can see newspaper headlines, talkshow hosts and cable news reporters praising the emergence of "Iraq-style democracy".

[Patsy Stone]

7. Isn't that a little like what we have going on right now in the U.S of A.?

Fundamentalism disguised as democracy? :)

[Patsy Stone]

9. And, now that I think about it...

What about the Kurds?