Was it ever PROVEN that Bin Laden attacked us?

[mopaul]

and if it's true, why did bushape abandon the so called hunt for him?

[SteppingRazor]

1. It wasn't Bin Laden...

It was the CIA and the ghost of Lee Harvey Oswald

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

[SouthernDem2004]

2. He said in one of his messages that he did it.

Why stop hunting? Because he is hiding in a friendly country.

[0rganism]

6. "friendly"

We've been learning to stretch that term farther than I thought it could ever go, lately.

Not just "friendly", but also "pardners in thu wahr awn terra".

[SouthernDem2004]

9. True, I guess friendly means anyone that is not actively and publicly

trying to destroy us.

[radwriter0555]

23. actually, he didn't.. he said he knew about it, sure, but vehemently

denied taking part or having any part in planning it. That was in his last interview, taped on October 8th or 12th I believe, and released some time later.

Now, that being said, he then died no thanks to bush, on December 23rd, 2001 from lung failure due to complications from kidney disease. His funeral was held outside tora bora where he was buried high in the mountains, according to a number of middle eastern papers at the time.

No. None of the so-called memos from him later on were actually his... remember, in each alleged one, they were all 'suspected' and "alleged" to be the work of bin laden... none were attributed to bin laden by anyone with any credibility.

After all, he hasn't weighed in on the London attacks, now... has he? Or on the pending invasion of iran....

[FreedomAngel82]

26. And don't forget there for a while

there was reports of a power struggle in Al-Quida. Why would that be going on if BinLaden was still a live? I, personally, doubt he is. How long can someone survive a kidney failure without medical help?

[radwriter0555]

28. Hey don't forget, the bush boogie men can regenerate legs and eyes too

like the zarqawi dude who's risen from the dead at least 3 times, although no one has actually SEEN him IN iraq...

[radwriter0555]

27. The FBI makes no connection between OBL and 911.

They don't mention 911 in their website of OBL. Take a look for yourself.

[Mr Rabble]

41. Bingo! N/T

[SouthernDem2004]

46. Link:

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/23DAA5DE-7073-4F7A-9109-8C153B41A716.htm

[FreedomAngel82]

25. How do you know that's what he said?

Was it in English or his language? If it was his language how do you know the translators got it right? And some of those video's are very questionable about if it's BinLaden or not.

[radwriter0555]

32. There were several reliable europeand-done translations, one in particular

from germany.

You see, I have this THING about trusting the bush regime's version of events for some reason.

But several different non-collaborative sources translated his last interview and they all jived up. It was a pretty simple statement, of just a few words, when he was asked directly if he assisted in the attacks, he very specifically said no.

And think too. He had nothing to gain by lying and not taking credit. It would have been a great last feather in his cap.

And, he never lied. He was a religious man.

On the other hand, the nefarious members of the bush regime aren't credible.

[SouthernDem2004]

47. Link to Aljazeera:

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/23DAA5DE-7073-4F7A-9109-8C153B41A716.htm

[Mairead]

40. I don't believe it's ever been verified that it was he who did the

admitting, has it? There've been a couple of statements allegedly by him where the speaker didn't even look like a relative of his, much less like him. And I'm fairly sure I remember some statement attributed to him right afterward where he said we got what we deserved, but disclaimed any actual responsibility.

[cdb]

3. Not conclusively proven

but there was some video of OBL pantomiming a plane going into a building. So that was enough "proof" I guess...

The Saudi royal family likely told Chimpy to back off. Thats why he later claimed not to care about OBL after his wanted dead or alive speeech.

[sabra]

4. Right after the attacks, UBL stated that he had no connections to it

later on another "video" came out, with him taking credit...

[0rganism]

11. Thin Usama denied it, but Fat Usama admitted it for both of 'em

Maybe the CIA should just hunt down Fat Usama. He's probably an easier target anyway.

[radwriter0555]

30. OBL never ever admitted to any such thing. In his last interview he said

he knew about it, that was it.

His last interview was in October of 2001.

[0rganism]

43. Fat Usama says...

"...we calculated in advance the number of casualties from the enemy, who would be killed based on the position of the tower. We calculated that the floors that would be hit would be three or four floors. I was the most optimistic of them all. (...inaudible...) due to my experience in this field, I was thinking that the fire from the gas in the plane would melt the iron structure of the building and collapse the area where the plane hit and all the floors above it only. This is all that we had hoped for."

Of course, Fat Usama's take is very different from Thin Usama's commentary, so YMMV.

[Jose Diablo]

12. Didn't OBL in that second video

have a fat nose? I remember there was quite a discussion about IF that was really OBL.

Also the tape was recovered from an abandoned house in Afghanistan that hosted the wedding party that OBL attended. Sorta makes me wonder if the tape was legit.

[HamdenRice]

15. Yes, I remember the fat, dark OBL

It is kind of funny because once you take a good look, the guy looks nothing like OBL.

[FreedomAngel82]

31. Yes

And also in one video tape of him where he's sitting down talking to someone he is wearing jewlery and in his religious beliefs they don't believe in wearing any type of jewlery. Especially if you're an extremist you'd take it very seriously. Compare the two video photo's:



This one is from November. And isn't it interesting of the timing of the video in November? That video is such a phoney.

This photo is from 2003. Now supposivley he had kidney failures.

[FreedomAngel82]

35. But what's strange though is the first picture I found

claimed to be from the video I googled (:shrug:) and I remember in the video this UBL had a fat nose and a really short beard. Don't they have their beards be a certain length? Does anybody know about that?

[snooper2]

5. Well, we do have that memo..

Titled,

Bin Laden determined to attack inside the United States...

[mopaul]

8. who wrote or sent the memo?

and how can that be proven?

[snooper2]

14. If we knew that, Bush may well be impeached by now...

Nothing can be "proven"...

[FogerRox]

10. The "supposed" video of OBL taking credit

may be probelmatic-- Brtish Arabic translators said the audio was very poor-- and it may have been a newly wed couple he was congratulating.

[FreedomAngel82]

34. Of course

And also I remember in the F911 film they were talking about BinLaden and the Saudi family claims not to keep in touch anymore and then a son of BinLaden's was getting married and he sent them invitation's and they showed up. So Bush could easily go and get him since he can hold hands with the princes but he can't call them up to get BinLaden. :eyes:

[stellanoir]

7. It has never been proven.

If memory serves, though he called for a Global Jihad, I think as early as '97, he intially denied that he masterminded it.

Then he later commended it saying that it happened because of infidels on Muslim soil, sanctions against Iraq that had caused a million Iraqi children to have died, and Israeli occupation of Palestine.

[sattahipdeep]

13. Someone should ask Mr. Fitzgerald that....

Mr. Fitzgerald served on the Attorney General's Advisory Committee
from 2001-2005, and he remains Chair of that Committee's sub-committee on terrorism.
He is also a member of the President's Corporate Fraud Task Force.
In December 2003, he was named Special Counsel to investigate the alleged disclosure
of the identity of a purported employee of the Central Intelligence Agency.

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/aboutus/patrickjfizgerald.html

[HamdenRice]

16. Can someone post a pic of fat Osama?

That would help in the discussion. I think I read in an old thread that whenever people actually see the "fat Osama" taking credit, the discussion gets resolved.

[skypilot]

29. Here are a few photos

[FreedomAngel82]

37. Good find

I tried to find that photo but found something different. :shrug: But it is interesting. And supposivley BinLaden is a good hider (heh) and he would be in caves all this time. So why would he have darker skin?

[peacetalksforall]

17. THE REALLY IMPORTANT ISSUE IS THIS -

There was no criminal investigation. WTC 1 in 1993 was declared a criminal act and taken to court and people are in jail.

On 9-11 A WAR WAS DECLARED!

Against whom?

Bin Laden and the Taliban. We didn't even have the name al Queda in our common vocabulary, though Dick Cheney and Condaleeza Rice did.

The White House fought investigations into 9-11. They finally had to give in and the compromise was no criminal investigation - they only agreed to an investigation of the U.S. intelligence agencies.

Several months after, AG Ashcroft declared that there was no criminal act involved in the 'put-option' crime and closed the file. His announcement didn't even make a blip on the corporate network propaganda machine and tool arm of PNAC and the cabal.

We were bamboozled.

Remember the video of the visiting cleric? The cleric congratulated bin Laden on the bombings. The response was delayed and awkward. Was the video all a Military Intelligence, State Dept Intelligence, NSC Intelligence or a CIA set-up?

[jobycom]

18. Nope.

Don't get me wrong, I believe he or someone in his network was ultimately behind it, but we never investigated to be sure he was, and to what degree he was. There was nothing resembling a trial, an indictment, or a conviction. It could have been done by anyone in his network, it could have been done by the CIA (not that I believe that), it could have been done by Michael Moore. It could have been the same type of attacks as London, or the first WTC bombing, where a group of bums decided to carry it out for their own reasons.

We didn't care, because Unocal didn't want to build a pipeline across Michael Moore's yard.

Of course, none of that is to say that BushCo doesn't have legitimate proof classified somewhere. If he did, he didn't respect America enough to share that proof with us.

[Catholic Sensation]

19. The memos, the chatter, the tape where he admitted it

The idea that al Qaeda would ever attack innocent civilians is a preposterous propistion, I know, but I suspect that there may be more to this group than we suspect.

[Jade Fox]

20. Kick

[nookiemonster]

21. I believe he is considered the proverbial "boogeyman"

Funny, for a guy that used to be a CIA asset.

[titoresque]

22. Osama, Usama, yo mama, my mama

sorry, thats just fun to say. Moving along, Bin Laden was a CIA operative. Still is.

Theres really too much info out there for people to research. Google
"9/11 , lies, coverup, Osama who?"

[FreedomAngel82]

24. I remember reading

on CNN an interview a reporter did with BinLaden and he claimed not to have anything to do with 9/11.

[ellie]

36. I remember that day (9/11)

hearing that bin Laden denied responsibility. And then there was the day after and the government had all of this information on the hijackers and they even found one of their passports on a NY street! How stupid do they think they are?

On a side note, my father was a great socialist and really knew what was going on in government. He was very well-read and everything he said came true, oddly enough. He died in 1998 and on 9/11, I remember wishing he was still here to tell me exactly what was going on and what happened and who was involved. He would be appalled at Bush.

[FreedomAngel82]

38. And also

I have read that extremist Muslims don't believe in killing women and children. And there were women and children in the WTC towers. :shrug:

[Mr Rabble]

42. They think we are pretty stupid. They are right.

90% of the US public bought the "story" hook, line, and sinker.

Remember- "catastrophic event...like a new Pearl Harbor".

[SmokingJacket]

33. There was never even a real investigation, as far as I'm concerned.

Can you imagine a crime occuring in this country, say a series of murders, and no investigation happening because some guy in a foreign country claimed he did it?

"Oh, well, So and So said he did it. Yeah, he's a lying-ass criminal, but why bother investigating?"

[Pastiche423]

39. Nope, it has not been proven

A few days after the attacks, Colin Powell promised on nationwide tv that a White Paper would soon be forthcoming, proving it was OBL.

That White Paper never materialized.

[Psyop Samurai]

44. I don't believe a connection has ever been established...

...between the "hijacker" patsies and bin Laden.

In the aftermath of September 11, it was broadly suggested and inferred that the "administration" was in possession of such evidence, and that such evidence would be forthcoming to the rest of the world. (The media psyop precluded any necessity that evidence be presented to the American people, who are, of course, all on the same "team".) In fact, the reputed "evidence" never went beyond allegation, suggestion, and inference.

An article by Stephen Gowans of Oct. 7, 2001 is well worth revisiting:

http://www.mediamonitors.net/gowans30.html

But as the days rolled by, the initial acceptance that Washington didn't need to produce evidence started to fray at the edges, and some reporters and some current and could-be US allies began to ask questions. Are you going to show us the evidence that bin Laden's involved? "Sure," said Secretary of State Colin Powel. "Soon." But that promise, was, a few days later, followed by a retraction. Powel couldn't present the evidence, he explained. Security concerns. Disclosing the evidence would compromise intelligence sources.

<...>

So, weeks after I first heard the news report that the Taliban had demanded evidence of bin Laden's involvement in the September 11th attacks, we're no further ahead. Nothing has changed, except that Washington and its junior partner in London are a little farther along in their plans to launch a major military operation, directed ostensibly at a man and organization they can't, or won't, provide evidence of being involved in the September 11th attacks. Meanwhile, Washington, and many of its allies, have taken a good many steps toward crafting legislation to limit civil liberties, and towards shoveling billions more into the pockets of defense contractors. In Bush's case, there's been ground made on the tax cut front, with promises to cut taxes even more generously for the wealthy, as a means of "stimulating an economy weakened by the attacks," but it may be more accurate to say he's made a good start in making over the US to benefit the wealthy in a way he would never had been able to do in the absence of September 11th. And significantly, with the establishment of a substantial military presence in central Asia underway, Washington will soon crack the nut of securing access to the trillions of dollars of oil wealth locked beneath the Caspian Sea.

A lot has been accomplished in a few short weeks by those whose interests lie firmly in oil wealth, lower taxes, defense spending, and muzzling what was becoming a bothersome anti-globalization movement. But those weeks have come and gone, and despite promises that the proof was forthcoming, despite Paul Wolfowitz's claim that the evidence was plain to see, despite Blair's 70-point restatement of the allegations, we still have no more of a sound basis to believe that bin Laden was behind the attacks than we did that dark morning I stepped into the taxi cab to hear the Taliban agree to hand over bin Laden if Washington could present proof.

Proof? Who needs proof? Washington says, "Trust us. Trust Tony Blair. Have we ever lied?"

An address on April 19, 2002, by FBI Director, Robert Mueller, included the following:

The hijackers also left no paper trail. In our investigation, we have not uncovered a single piece of paper – either here in the U.S. or in the treasure trove of information that has turned up in Afghanistan and elsewhere – that mentioned any aspect of the September 11th plot.

http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/speeches/speech041902.htm

...not a single piece of paper ...nada ...zip. ...Seems odd in light of their seemingly careless trail of Korans and flight manuals and such.
__________

But really, this is all just silliness. There has never even been an attempt to reconcile accounts of "hijackers" still alive, for God's sake:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm

Now look at the FBI website:

http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/penttbom/penttbomb.htm

Of course, the stenographers on the Kean Commission ignored this anomaly.

The simple fact is that the "administration" is not required to furnish proof. Nor are their cover stories required to stand up to scrutiny. They need only provide a convenient myth for a comfort-seeking population, which, it is (thus far, correctly) assumed, will comprise a critical mass. The entire project is managed by a spook-infested, see-no-evil corporate media, which "spins" any genuine would-be dissent into innocuous "he said, she said" bickering, while a totalitarian juggernaut inexorably advances.

[AngryAmish]

45. Bush is Hitler