One soldier's reaction to the cross incident

[Qanisqineq]

My husband has been a soldier for 10 years and is currently stationed in Korea. He served in Iraq from 2003-2004. He is not afraid to discuss his hatred for Bush or his hatred for this war with anyone in the army. He's been warned about his open Bush bashing.

This month he is doing some special training and they don't have access to television for the entire month. A few days ago news of Cindy Sheehan camping outside Bush's ranch reached them. They have discussed it and no one he works with is offended, their morale isn't lowered. They support her.

I have only seen my husband become emotional about this war once. Normally he talks about how much he is against it but in more of a matter-of-fact way. He tries not to let it bother him. However, during Michael Moore's "Fahreheit 9/11" he cried during a part showing the Iraq war. He had returned from Iraq probably about 4-5 months prior to that. He never cries.

This morning when I told my husband about the incident with the crosses was the second time I heard him become emotional about the war. When I told him someone had driven down the crosses erected for dead troops he became dead quiet (very unusual for him). The next time he spoke I could hear the anger dripping from his voice and it started to crack like he was tearing up. He was too angry to even discuss it and said "I have to go" and hung up. It had nothing to do with the crosses themselves as we are atheists. It had to do with the disrespect to the fallen troops.


That's how this shithead made the soldiers feel when he mowed down their crosses.

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. I think a lot more of our troops will feel that way than will glorify it

like most of the freepers.

[Modem Butterfly]

2. I think most of our guys won't even hear about it

At least, not the ones that are over there.

[GreenPartyVoter]

6. It depends on word of mouth. Certainly they won't hear about it if

all they have for news is FAUX and RUSH.. unless RUSH is stupid enough to priase the guy. Then some might start asking questions.

[Modem Butterfly]

8. It depends on where you are

Many have e-mail and phone, but their families may be reluctant to use the time they have to talk about this stuff.

[GreenPartyVoter]

10. True

[wryter2000]

3. It's absolutely ghastly

I'm sure your husband knows that the vast majority of people agree with your husband about how horrible that was.

IMHO, *asshole had better condemn it or suffer the consequences.

[givemebackmycountry]

4. Kicked - and nominated.

We are all starting to feel like your husband.
Me, I've been there for awhile.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. I am having my internal debate whether to share this

weth my hubby, he is a vet too, and I was hurt by this... but I know I will do it, for what happeend to day is that all troops in uniform and out were spat upon

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. Let us know how it goes *hugs*

[Qanisqineq]

16. I was hurt by the news

but I wasn't prepared for my husband's reaction. I am curious to hear what the other soldiers say when he fills them in on the whole incident.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. I am sure it is going to be quiet anger

honestly...

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. Update he watrched it, he said that it was not time to worry

about this, as this was street theater, and he was happy it made the news...

[whatever4]

62. I agree with you, spat upon

I'm not even Christian, I have no use for crosses. But I would NEVER participate in such a disrespectful activity, and certainly not over such a sensitive and painful issue as crosses for dead soldiers. Soldiers not long dead, and so very many of them.

This non-Christian thinks that was a terrible disgrace, and I would have no matter who did it or where. I participated in erecting crosses last year, at a demonstration, and I absolutely cannot imagine ANYONE condoning someone mowing them down. It was a moving sight then, and there are many more dead now.

[moc]

9. I wanted to recommend this post

but I don't have enough posts yet. Just know that I would if I could, okay?

I hope the freepers see this.

[GreenPartyVoter]

13. You can count my rec as your :^)

[Touchdown]

15. I got your back.

Recommended for you...of course I can't do it myself, but there'll be others.:hi:

[Qanisqineq]

17. thanks moc

and welcome to DU!

:hi:

[gkhouston]

19. I'd be happy to do it for you.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[moc]

21. Aw shucks...

Thanks guys.

:grouphug:

[HeeBGBz]

29. I'll rec for you too, Moc

Welcome to DU!

[Touchdown]

11. This is so wrong.

We're not supposed to be a country like this. Pissing off our own soldiers all because a poor woman wants an answer from Bush. Are they willing to kill their own mother if it pleases Bush?:cry:

[deadparrot]

12. Thank you for posting this.

Best wishes to your and your husband. Hope he can come home soon. :)

[Generic Other]

14. I'm hearing the same from vets I know

It was so dishonorable. And right infront of the president's doorstep!

[caligirl]

20. the thing is, mowing down those crosses is symbolic of bush's arrogance

toward the troops and cindy.


I can't think of a better comparison. that moran just handed us an excellent symbol of bush's arrogance.

We need to use it.

[ecoflame]

22. Thank you for your husband

I was in the Army for three years during the ending of the Vietnam War. I was 'on call' (work in Radiology) at the hospital the night Nixon resigned & all who could were down in the ER waiting room watching TV....waiting to see it for ourselves.

One of the things I learned was how reluctant many of the 'grunts' were to go to war. I don't know, I thought they'd all be gung-ho on the idea. No, diplomacy, diplomacy, diplomacy.....last resort = war or armed conflict. The first I heard that from was an E-6 Green Beret. The most despicable thing I heard was a woman who was also an E-6 who wanted us to get involved in some conflict because she could get E-7. I remember the horrified looks on people's faces.

The oath I took, as does all military, is to protect & defend the consitution of this country. 'That is the first goal I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.'

It says nothing about becoming immune to bullshit stalking as the truth. It says nothing about giving up your intellect.

[Nothing Without Hope]

25. Welcome to the DU community, ecoflame! I see that the oath names

support and defense of the Constitution BEFORE it names obedience to the orders of the President. That's as it should be. Bush, of course, tramples on the Consitution as he does on all people who are not his dittoheads, and the Repub-dominated Congress and the Poodle Press have let him get away with it.. That MUST change.

[LittleWoman]

46. The President also swears an oath to support and defend the Constitution

When they said "oath" * thought they said "oats" and ran away because he thought there were horses on the way.

[ecoflame]

50. Actually....it should read

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.'

I had started a thought and had written "that is the first goal" and got distracted or forgot what I was going to say or pfft - who knows.

Those who are officers have a similar oath.

[Peace Patriot]

52. It should say, "...and that I will obey the LAWFUL orders of the President

of the United States and the LAWFUL orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

...so that, when the Prez or the officers or the private military contractors order you to commit torture, or any UNLAWFUL act, including invading a country for no good reason and without any legal basis whatsoever, you can say no.

I really mean that. Something needs to be DONE about the ILLEGAL use of our military by criminal regimes like Bush's--regimes that think nothing of publishing the name of a covert CIA agent and outing an entire covert non-proliferation project, putting all agents at extreme risk, and that defy the Geneva Conventions and the UCMJ and commit torture, and that invent their own legal definitions for unlimited detention without charge of anyone they don't like the looks of, and that break international laws, invade other countries, and thumb their noses at the United Nations. Something needs to be done to PROTECT soldiers from the illegal orders of such criminals, and to curtail the powers of the president and restore order in this country.

I have been so outraged at this regime's cavalier and callous use of the loyalty and self-sacrifice and skill of our armed forces. It just drives me crazy. I think of soldiers and officers who have committed themselves to the UCMJ, and who believe in that code of behavior--only to find their COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF sneakily having his lawyer Alberto Gonzales write secret documents that provide him with deniability for the culture of torture that he and his fellow criminals created. And I think of young people who are willing to risk their lives for their country being given bad food, and inadequate equipment, and sent on too many tours of duty, and thrown into the hell of the Iraq occupation, to secure Iraq's oil fields for Bush's buddies, and to fill Halliburton's pockets and fatten Dick Cheney's pension plan. It just sickens me.

There are many things to be outraged about--including the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis, a war crime that will haunt this country forever! But I'm thinking of the LIVING, of the people whose ideals have been shattered, whose hearts have been broken, who have been turned into cynics at a young age, whose code of ethics has been sullied and harmed, who have been used and abused, and despised. That, too, is a serious crime. The mass slaughter is almost too big to contemplate. But the demoralization of people--both here and in Iraq--is something that is easier for my mind and heart to grasp. And it is awful.

[Qanisqineq]

27. it's amazing, isn't it,

the people doing most of the fighting and are in harms way most often are no as pro-war as some people think, but the officers and some NCO's are all for it. Kinda like the chickenhawks here in the US. They are all for it because they aren't in harms way.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. Welcome home soldier and welcome to DU

thanks for your service.

[AuntPatsy]

23. How much more can our soldiers take of such actions by these idiots?

I could picture his face as he hung up the phone with you, it was heartbreaking to witness. Thank you for sharing what other's need to hear in how this has effected our soldiers as they stand in harms way day after day with no end in sight.

[Qanisqineq]

26. isn't the republican support for the troops amazing?

getting them into a war based on lies, not providing enough armor so that parents have to buy ceramic plates and troops have to weld scrap metal to their vehicles, refusing to honor the dead by hiding their returning caskets in the dead of night, mowing down crosses... I'm sure if I thought about it I could find more ways the repubs "support the troops"

Amazing.

[AuntPatsy]

28. And they constantly chant that Liberals hate the soldiers, Unreal...

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. We do, that is why I sent a care package to a troop

in Afthanistan, that is why I will be sending goodies to his brother when he deploys and why we told an about to be minted Marine, we shall take care of you too, even if your dad suports this madness... for yuo need the things, regardless of politics

[FreedomAngel82]

42. And don't forget the biggest insult of all I think

Bush not showing up to one funeral.

[Qanisqineq]

45. but he just wants to get on with his life!

he's vacationing while troops are dying. He sits in an air-conditioned office while troops are suffering in the Iraq summer heat. He laughs about not finding WMD's and troops are getting shot.

[PegDAC]

57. I heard a winger

try to tell Stephanie Miller that Clinton didn't attend any troops' funerals, either. :eyes:

Could that be because no one was KIA in Kosovo? And, as I recall, he did attend the service for the victims of the bombing of the USS Cole, as well as travel to the Middle East to visit the wounded.

[Hissyspit]

24. Email this to all your friends. Nominated.

Thank you for sharing this.

[maxrandb]

30. This Active Duty Liberal Sailor Stands With Him!

Your husband is not alone. There are quite a few of us in the military that are still "enlightened". Tell him I said to "Keep his powder dry". He'll know what I mean.

I've said it before. "There have not been many times that I have felt ashamed to wear my uniform. One of those times was when I saw those photos from Abu Grahab".

I'm tired of hearing politicians and other people say "they are so proud of our men and women in uniform". Perhaps it would be best to say, "we have a government, and leaders, that the military can be proud of".

[AuntPatsy]

35. I want so much to feel that pride once again.

[AnneD]

54. Every since I can remember...

We have always had a copy of the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and the Bill of Rights hanging on our wall, first at Mom's, then in my dorm, first apartment, etc. I opposed the war in Viet Nam while Dad was stationed in Thailand, yet I proudly enlisted in the US-AR and served from 1978-1989. I took down the DOI, BOR, and Constitution the day we fired on Iraq.....I tried to explain to my friends that, in our 200+ years, we had always taken the moral high ground....until that day. Our military had gone from an military of defense to one of offense. Nothing that I have seen from this administration has changed my opinion. The troops.....I back them in every way I can...I can distinguish between leaders and troops. WHen I heard about this incident, my BP shot up and I wished I could have peppered his tailgate with buck shot (hey, I AM a Texan and our state motto is not "Friendship" but "We'll kick your ass", Bush, by the way, is not a real Texas- that faux Texan is from Connecticut and Maine. A real Texan would have had the balls and respect to meet with Cindy and took his lumps.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. And sailor, keep yourself safe ok

we need you here when you come home... we are trying very hard to bring you home and are watching your back...

[Qanisqineq]

37. I will maxrandb!

My husband was probably home less than a month when the Abu Ghraib pictures and torture story was first broadcast on 60 Minutes. He said something about how those "assholes" know that is against the Geneva Convention. He was shocked and ashamed, too.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. Share with your husband taht soem of us

have even bothered telling the USSC how wrong Guantamo is, and to abu graib I am quoting chapter and verse of the conventions whenever I contact congress critters or write letters.

We are doing what we can.

And I have not felt this angry since ... I sent my hubby to war, knowing it was on false pretenses.

[FreedomAngel82]

31. How sad

And yes it is disrespectful. :mad:

[Solly Mack]

33. My husband saw the pictures of the destruction

he stared, got quiet...then just left the room.

He later asked me to print it out so he could post at the office.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Solly thanks for all you do

:hug: :hug: :hug:

[Solly Mack]

40. ((((((((nadinbrzezinski ))))))))))))))) Thank you

(((((((((((Qanisqineq)))))))))))))) Thank you, too!!!!

He has yet to comment other than saying print it out to post...

No one in his office supports Bush's war - they all feel it's about money and nothing more.

Hate is violence. Just in and of itself, it's nothing but violence...and it took a whole lot of hate for that pile of nothing to do what he did.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. This too shall pass teh winds of change are now upon us

and... we have solid evidence of who is spitting on the troops, so when they raise that cannard we will be ready... for they will

[Qanisqineq]

44. Hugs to you too, Solly Mack!

:hug:

And to Nadinbrzezinski!
:grouphug:

The republican party is the party of hate. I never used to believe that but over the last 4 years hate has spread like wildfire through republicans. And unfortunately they have caused me to feel nothing but hatred towards them. It's a pretty destructive way to feel all the time but they spread hate to everyone.

I wish he had access to a computer right now so he could see the protests and the crosses and such. Plus he has about 50 emails of articles I've forwarded to him. By the time he gets back from training there will be so many he won't want to read them all!

[Lars39]

59. ~

Big hugs to you both. :hug: :cry:

Did you see this thread?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2014864&mesg_id=2014864

Are the troops still getting this POS on the radio in Iraq?
:puke: :grr:

[spuddonna]

41. Thank you, to your husband and you, for your sacrifice for our country...

I don't understand how anyone could do this to a memorial for the soldiers who have died...

Tell your husband there are so many of us that stand beside him. I have the utmost respect for him and you. My gut aches over this, and I can only imagine what it must be like for people who have family/friends in the military to see this...

[Spike from MN]

47. Thanks for the post.

I too am an atheist and was absolutely appalled that someone would desecrate a memorial for the troops like that. Anyone that supports the troops should be outraged. It's not about religion or politics. It's about honoring those that have served the country. That transcends everything else.

Tell your husband thanks for serving. Same goes for you ecoflame and maxrandb. I hope that all those who are currently serving come home safe and sound. Soon. Very soon.

[area51]

48. kick (n/t)

[roguevalley]

49. Hug your husband and tell him we appreciate him so much. Hugs

to you too, honey.

[Gregorian]

51. It happened in WACO, in 1993.

It happened in Afghanistan.
It happened during the sanctions against Iraq.
It happened in the first Iraq war.
It happened by not helping the starving children in Darfur.
It happened in Palestine.
It happens whenever someone doesn't care.
We're more divided now than we were during the Civil War.

[4dsc]

53. Your story made me cry today

knowing this war didn't have to happen. Knowing our special man and women are dying for lie, never to come back. Knowing a madman is in the whitehouse showing his disrespect for them..

Tell your husband to stand tall and keep up the good fight!!

[Rainscents]

55. Your post hit me hard, it brought tears to my eyes.

Tell your husband, 60% of America care and they're against Bush! Remind him, someday, Bush and the gangs will be brought up in international war criminal charge against them. There are no statue of limitation bringing this charge against anyone who was involve in illegal war.

:grouphug:

[bostonbabs]

56. very powerful.THANK YOU..!.KEEP ON POSTING

....no media ?

[Joey Liberal]

58. Republicans are anti-military

Republicans only care about the military when:

A.) When the BRAC Commission is closing a base in their state.

B.) As long as their kids (young republicans) don't have to serve.

C.) As long as a Veteran is not a Democrat. Then they smear his/hers military service.

--------
Funny how we've heard zero outrage from the so called "Evangelicals" about the crosses being destroyed.

[ptolle]

64. crosses

Funny how we've heard zero outrage from the so called "Evangelicals" about the crosses being destroyed.

You won't either, given that the crosses were not placed to further their theological ends or to support their anointed leader.
AS with so much else these things are only symbolically important when they are employed to support frightwing causes.

[Number9Dream]

60. Thanks Qanisqineq / Has an arrest been made?

This former Vietnam boonie-rat thanks you for your moving post, and you & your husband for your service.

Has an arrest been made for this crime? Do we know the name of this pond scum?

[whatever4]

61. That is the rage BushCo cannot understand

Thank you for sharing that, I was active duty, and I hate this war more than I can express, have since before it started. I've lost forum buddies arguing over it. People I liked and respected, former military and others.

I just want to say I think THAT is the rage and indignation that the admin does not understand. How you describe your husband is the military I remember. Folks that are not stupid, and that, since they said they'd tow the line and defend us, are BRAVE enough to stand up. If they have to. We all had a taste of it in basic training. It's just a question of them realizing the time and place to draw the line. I think we're close.

I'm very conflicted about the military, now, I have to admit. But I love the military family. I just can't help it, no matter what they do, and I don't know if I'm a weak-willed follower, or if I just integrated it into my identity that much. There were so many people I was priviliedge to know and work with, great people, men and women and kids and babies next door in base housing. This is a sad time for them. Best wishes to you.

[merh]

63. Please send my cyber hugs and my heart felt thanks to your

husband. Tell him that I am grateful for his service, I'm sorry he had to go through what he has gone through and I am sorry that folks disrespected his fallen friends and colleagues. :cry: :cry:

((((((((((((((((( :hug: Mr.Qanisqineq :hug: ))))))))))))))))))

:patriot: :loveya: :hug:

[vard28]

66. Thanks for sharing this with us...

please tell him just how many of us are behind our servicemen and women and your families. Unlike during and after Vietnam, I know my family and I make it a point to thank our military members for their service. We have quite a few retired combat veterans in our family, as well as two others who served as Marines in recent years.

:hug: