Pope has asked President Bush to grant him immunity..sex abuse lawsuit

[sabra]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050816.html

Q Dana, this just came in -- lawyers for the Pope have asked President Bush to grant him immunity as a head of state concerning a church sex abuse lawsuit in Texas in which the Pope is named as a defendant. Reitzinger is named as an individual in the lawsuit, not as a cardinal or Pope, and was successfully served with the lawsuit earlier this year. Is President Bush inclined to grant him the immunity in that?

MS. PERINO: As you know, I've been sitting here. That breaking news just happened, so I'll have to get back to you.

Anyone have more details?

[tk2kewl]

1. was bush sexually abused by the Pope as a boy?

that might explain some things.

[YOY]

3. Don't know how that would be possible

Given the fact that * is a Born-again X-tian/Methodist.

[libertypirate]

33. Um his dady has issues

[MetaTrope]

18. Well, Bush claims Billy Graham "planted a seed" in him...

:rofl:

[wicket]

2. Hmmm....this should be interesting to say the least

n/t

[sabra]

6. I am very curious...

[darkism]

4. Can we start calling this pope a creep yet?

I mean, WTF! THE FREAKING POPE!

[The Backlash Cometh]

9. LOL

Life is so absurd and getting weirder everyday.

[MindPilot]

5. Is it like a collective birthday for the left?

First we get a freeper driving his truck over crosses and flags, now the possibility that Cowchip may be put in a position of defending a child-molesting priest who happens to be the freakin' POPE!?

:woohoo::popcorn::woohoo:

[HeeBGBz]

8. Sure is an interesting day

The mind boggles.

[Bridget Burke]

13. Sorry, he hasn't been charged with molestation.

But a letter he wrote as Cardinal has been interpreted as possibly obstructing justice.

In a statement to KPRC-TV in Houston, Archbishop Joseph Fiorenza said, "To insinuate that this letter from the Congregation for the Faith is part of a Vatican conspiracy is a total and complete misunderstanding of the purpose of the letter."

A law professor said there are a number of hurdles to suing the pope, most importantly, the fact the U.S. does not allow people to sue a sitting head of state....

The archdiocese said there is nothing in the letter that would preclude the church from contacting authorities. Officials said in this case, when the allegations first arose, they immediately expelled the seminary student and contacted Child Protective Services.

www.nbc5.com/news/4422285/detail.html?rss=chi&psp=nationalnews

I'm not defending his actions. But there was nothing in the letter to preclude the PARENTS from contacting authorities. Oh, well--Criminal cases can only put offenders in jail; the Civil cases can really pay off.

[AFSCME girl]

7. WOW!!!!!!!! n/t

:popcorn:

[evermind]

10. He's been added in a civil lawsuit for (it's claimed) helping to

cover up the abuse.

Story (from April 27th) is at:

http://www.nbc5.com/news/4422285/detail.html?rss=chi&psp=nationalnews

Texas Men Sue Pope Benedict Over Sex Abuse Letter
Seminary Student Indicted On Child Sex Abuse Charges

UPDATED: 1:35 pm CDT April 27, 2005

HOUSTON -- Three Houston-area men used a letter written by Pope Benedict XVI while he was a cardinal as the basis for a lawsuit against the Catholic Church.

The men claim that they are victims of the church's sex scandal and that a letter written by then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger is proof that he conspired to keep claims of sex abuse secret.

In a Houston federal courtroom, the men's attorneys told Judge Lee Rosenthal Tuesday that the now-pope tried to cover up sex crimes against children in the Catholic Church.

"We believe, actually, that the current pope, when he was head of the congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, actually was actively involved in that conspiracy," plaintiffs' attorney Daniel Shea said.

(...continues...)

[papau]

11. Here is the original story from June that today's story refers to

Re: POPE WANTS EXEMPTION FROM U.S. CRIMINAL LAW
The Vatican has sought the intervention of the U.S. State Department
to declare Pope Benedict XVI immune from a sexual abuse lawsuit filed here, according to court documents. A church official contacted the State Department May 20, asking it to notify a Houston federal court of the pope's immunity as the head of a foreign state, according to the defense motion.

Orginal Story in the Irish Examiner 2005/06/20

Lawyer seeks to hold Pope accountable for abuse cover-up

A former seminarian is seeking to bring Pope Benedict XVI before a Texas court to explain what he believes was an attempt to protect priests from the law, writes Caroline O’Doherty.THE US has produced some intriguing courtroom spectacles, as those recovering from addiction to the Michael Jackson trial will testify. <snip>

Understandably, the Pope is resisting the move but, if Pope Benedict XVI succeeds in claiming diplomatic immunity, Mr Shea will go after the person who grants immunity. It would give him pleasure to see George W Bush take the Bible in his right hand. <snip>

.....Crime of Solicitation issued in 1962 by the body now called the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. It dealt specifically with the crime against canon law of a priest using the privacy of a confessional to solicit sex. But it goes on to explore the scenario where such solicitation might give rise to an act of homosexual sex or sex with a child.....a letter, also in Latin, addressed to bishops in 2001 by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, then head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, now Pope Benedict XVI. The Ratzinger letter, however, showed Crimen Sollicitationis had not been confined to the archives.Cardinal Ratzinger added to the 1962 list of offences a number of breaches of canon law which seem comparatively minor. Holding onto the consecrated host for reasons other than ministering communion, throwing the host away or being too ecumenical in concelebrating Mass were among the additions. “This letter puts child rape on a par with saying a crazy Mass,” says Mr Shea. <snip>

Mr Shea wants to hear that explanation from the horse’s mouth and says that’s why he has added Pope Benedict as a respondent in the case he is taking against the Church in Houston on behalf of three young men who say they were abused by a former seminarian in 1996 when they were aged 11 to 13. <snip>

And if immunity is granted? “We’ll go after them on constitutional grounds.”
<snip>

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2005/06/20/story734675522.asp

[sabra]

16. thanks

so now he wants immunity? interesting....

[Sapphire Blue]

12. Ratzinger helped get bush 'elected', so it wouldn't be a surprise

... if a 'favor' was returned... very Mafia-like.

[hvn_nbr_2]

14. Does diplomatic immunity apply to civil lawsuits?

asked President Bush to grant him immunity as a head of state

I presume this is referring to granting diplomatic immunity, but I wouldn't have thought that applied to private civil lawsuits. I think presidential pardons apply only for criminal issues, not for civil proceedings, so that wouldn't be what they're talking about.

[Wizard777]

19. Yes. But Diplomats who invoke imminity are expelled now.

This comes from the days of fear the red, white, and blue diplomatic tags in DC. before crossing any street in DC. You would check the cars tags before crossing. The diplomats could run a red light and run you over. You couldn't have them arrested and you couldn't sue. There was nothing you could do.

[Wizard777]

15. He May Claim Diplomatic Immunity . But his Ambassadors will have to be

Expelled to Rome. Pope Bendict XVI can also be denied entry to the US as an expelled Head of State.

[mmonk]

17. Interesting

The case looks difficult for the plaintif to win in that the church fired the accused and contacted child protective services. However, the letter makes him look as if he is trying to cover it up. The fact he asked the president for immunity makes it seem worse. One thing for sure, it will stir the pot.

[jbnow]

21. His past writings on the subject

make me hope there is some validity, to future cases if not this one.

How refreshing to hear in the case you note that there was clear action taken. But I have been astounded that no bishop or cardinal has been charged and jailed for child endangerment. The offending priests should have been stopped immediately and charged, but they are pedophiles and acting like it. What's the excuse of the higher ups who covered up and sent them on to endanger other children. That really is against the law. A parent who let another parent molest a child and covered for them would be jailed.

There are many things to dislike about the current pope, but his view on this was enough for me to be completely revolted. It is just so opposite of what Jesus would do, and that is supposed to matter.

Now I could be talking about the right wing and Jesus hypocrisy. Crazy world.

[Bridget Burke]

27. What about the parents who did nothing?

Were they too embarrassed to call the fucking COPS?

[jbnow]

37. That's hard to understand too

I doubt it's just embarrassment if you are talking about victims of priest. It's in part the shame of seeing the church as a higher authority and if told to stay quiet, they do. It is no excuse.

It's hard to understand how parents ever accept it quietly, but having worked in the field (not of victims of priests) I know sometimes they do. They shush the kid, give no help or support, let alone pursue charges against the molester.

I resent no less institutional approval of the abuse, just quit claiming any connection with Christ if that is how you care for your flock. There's just nothing holy about putting the reputation of the church over the physical, emotional and spiritual welfare of the children.

[K8-EEE]

20. This Is Why I Left The Church Last Year

They are more concerned with pardoning pedophiles & those who protect them than they are with the teachings of Jesus. The money I put in the collection envelope every week now goes to various organizations that work for peace and justice, including the ACLU & the Crawford Peace House of course!

[truebrit71]

22. IIRC he was instrumental in the cover-up when working under...

John Paul II....

Sickening.....simply sickening....

[DanCa]

23. I am not questioning the poster but is this legit?

It's just so bizarre i need a second source. I hope sabra understands why I am asking.

[DoYouEverWonder]

28. Hot off the White House website

Good catch sabra!

This is just unbelievable.

Popa Ratzi certainly earned his anti-Christ wings today.

[DanCa]

30. My appologies Sabra

The story was just so wierd I just had to ask twice.

[DoYouEverWonder]

32. Me too

thats why I checked the link.

Who woulda ever thunk it?

[sabra]

39. LOL

no worries... It made me do a double take too. This LBN seemed to be very under the radar. :-)

[jsamuel]

24. Soft on Child Rape? / Hate the Pope?

[DS1]

25. Fan-diddily-tastic!

:hide:

[jsamuel]

26. Could this cause the "End of Popes"

[DoYouEverWonder]

29. We can hope?

Between this and Cindy, I think this might be the start of the second coming.

[Rich Hunt]

31. I sure hope so!

I hope we can get rid of the Nazi church and its Nazi members once and for all. Remember the Inquisition!

[jsamuel]

35. Didn't Nostradamus only predict this last pope, none after that?

[Eloriel]

38. I always get confused on that too

I thought it would have been this one, but when the subject came up someone else said, no, the NEXT one. :shrug:

Oh, lookee here, I actually have a link to that discussion -- and apparently it's Malachi, not Nostradamus (as I too had thought):

St. Malachy's "Last Pope" prophecy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=262x599

[matcom]

34. HAHAHAHAHAHA

[ewagner]

36. Any Questions why Ratzinger

sent the memo supporting Bush* and condemning Kerry?

It's not only immunity from THIS LAWSUIT but also Limiting the Liability of the Church in Civil Lawsuits over sexual abuse!!!!!

HOly Shiiiiiittttt.....

I should have seen it coming........It's so freaking obvious!!!!!

[wicket]

40. kick

:kick: