Did I just hear Randi say that Joe Biden doesn't agree with Cindy?

[fooj]

Tell me I didn't hear right. Please.

Peace.

[City Lights]

1. I heard it.

Is she going to go into details after the break?

[theboss]

2. He's not calling for an immediate pull-out

I think that's what people are missing. She wants us out of Iraq immediately.

There are very few Democrats who support that position at the moment.

[Cooley Hurd]

3. Please amend your statement...

There are very few "Politician" Democrats who support that position at the moment. EVERY Dem I know feels that we should get the fuck out of there!

[shance]

18. Thank ya Cooley***Very true

n/t

[jzodda]

21. Please Amend your statement

Dem here and not supporting the abandonment of the Iraqis just yet

Against the war? Yes

Against how they have conducted it? Yes

Against forcing people to stay there when their term is over? Yes

Hate Bush and his foolish policies? Yes

Ready to just cut and run from Iraq? Not me

So you say every Dem wants out now? Well now you know one who does not feel that way and in fact all the Dems I know feel like I do.

[Cooley Hurd]

24. Nope...

I don't know you or any Dem you know, so my statement stands... :eyes:

[ewagner]

4. Exactly

he doesn't think we should pull out immediately and Cindy does....

he didn't, however, make any statement to support Cindy otherwise....he chickened out...as usual.

[EST]

5. I support that position--out now!

[theboss]

9. Well, you aren't Joe Biden

I'm mostly pissed that we are in a box in Iraq right now. Pulling out would be a disaster, I'm convinced. But staying too long might just make things worse.

Frankly, I'm inching closer to the idea that the best solution may be to find a new Saddam who will take our money and generally behave himself for 20 years or so.

[tiptoe]

17. Might Chalabi become the "new Saddam"? (nahhhhhhh...)

Chalabi--->Judith Miller--->Feith/Bolton---->Chalabi--->Miller--->Feith/Bolton = NY Times articles on WMDs in Iraq.

The Source of the Trouble

During the winter of 2001 and throughout 2002, Miller produced a series of stunning stories about Saddam Hussein’s ambition and capacity to produce weapons of mass destruction, based largely on information provided by Chalabi and his allies—almost all of which have turned out to be stunningly inaccurate.

Dec 7, 2002 Tenet tells Bush WMDs in Iraq is a “Slam-Dunk”

US tried to plant WMDs, failed: whistleblower Daily Times Monitor

According to a stunning report posted by a retired Navy Lt Commander and 28-year veteran of the Defense Department (DoD), the Bush administration’s assurance about finding weapons of mass destruction in Iraq was based on a Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) plan to “plant” WMDs inside the country. Nelda Rogers, the Pentagon whistleblower, claims the plan failed when the secret mission was mistakenly taken out by “friendly fire”, the Environmentalists Against War report.

Nelda Rogers is a 28-year veteran debriefer for the DoD. She has become so concerned for her safety that she decided to tell the story about this latest CIA-military fiasco in Iraq. According to Al Martin Raw.com, “Ms Rogers is number two in the chain of command within this DoD special intelligence office. This is a ten-person debriefing unit within the central debriefing office for the Department of Defense.”

The information that is being leaked out is information “obtained while she was in Germany heading up the debriefing of returning service personnel, involved in intelligence work in Iraq for the DoD and/or the CIA. “According to Ms Rogers, there was a covert military operation that took place both preceding and during the hostilities in Iraq,” reports Al Martin Raw.com, an online subscriber-based news/analysis service which provides “Political, Economic and Financial Intelligence”...

"There's no WMD in Iraq."

'Damn that Chalabi!'

May 20, 2004
http://www.counterpunch.org/chalabi05202004.html">The Truth About Ahmed Chalabi Why the US Turned Against Their Former Golden Boy -- He was Preparing a Coup! What He Did as a Catspaw for Tehran: How He Nearly Bankrupted Jordan; the Billions He Stands to Make Out of the New Iraq By ANDREW COCKBURN

~August 2004
Sy Hersh: Bush Asked Abdullah to Pardon Chalabi

Here's what I know about that. I know that King Jordan comes to visit America quite a bit -- the United States. And the President likes him -- our President, George Bush, because he speaks good English. He went to a prep school here in America, and he's very pro-Western. And he sees the President, and he has told friends -- this is about nine months ago -- he was stunned. He was seeing the President. The President said, you know, "Your" -- whatever he calls him -- "I have a favor." He said, "Of course, anything." "I want you to pardon Chalabi."

And he was stunned, because, you know, how can he pardon Chalabi after what he had done. The money he stole was from old women and children, you know, little funds, and he was reviled, Chalabi...

May 11, 2005
King of Jordan to pardon Chalabi over $300m bank fraud

King Abdullah of Jordan has agreed to pardon Ahmed Chalabi, the controversial Iraqi political leader, who was sentenced to 22 years in prison for fraud after his bank collapsed with $300m (£160m) in missing deposits in 1989...

Jalal Talabani, the Iraqi President, asked the king to resolve the differences between Jordan and Mr Chalabi, now Deputy Prime Minister of Iraq...

The protean Chalabi is now donning a "secular Shiite" image. (Saddam was a "secular Sunni", a force in Iraq counter to fundamentalists like Osama Bin Laden.

You think Bush wasn't aware of how Chalabi collaborated with Feith to manipulate Judith Miller's WMD stories in NY TImes?

Bush is "loyal" to those loyal to him.

[FreedomAngel82]

28. Of course

It all ties together. I still remember Rummy going on "Meet the Press" and saying they knew exactly where the WMD's were. In Baghdad. Wasn't this after the debates? I can't remember but Kerry stated how even Poppy Bush knew that in order to take over the country they had to get to Baghdad. Rummy seemed very confident in where those weapons were. Funny how they never found them eh? *wink wink, nudge nudge*.

[FreedomAngel82]

27. Don't you

remember anything about Vietnam? People said the same thing about Vietnam. But guess what happened? If you're old enough I'm sure you remember. I'm a big time history buff and love that time frame for whatever reason. I'm just fasicinated by it and now I feel dejavu a lot. Have we not learned anything from Vietnam? What we need to do is turn back on their utilities and get the hell out. We can still, I think, train their military but send them to other bases whether American or European while they are training and once they are trained send them back to Iraq. I'm sure there will still be some sort of presence there but for the most part 99.9999 etc percent we need to be out of there now. We also need to get the other countries to help us. Back in January Kerry went on a mid-east tour and talked to all of the other leaders. He found out they all were ready and willing to send in troops to help secure the boarders and keep things safer but yet Bush hasn't gone up on their offer. We need to do that. We need to get help with securing the boarders, turn on their utilities, train the men out of the country and get the hell out. On rebuilding the country we can give money to their leaders that Halliburton has recieved from this "war" and they can create jobs and let the Iraqi men rebuild the country and pay them money to help take care of themselves and/or anyone else that's left in their families. Other wise we NEED to get out!

[FreedomAngel82]

29. Oh and I wanted to add

I remember finding it very strange how on their "election" day back in January they were able to make some areas safer then others. I wonder how they did that and why. Were they trying to somehow control the voting like in Ohio and Florida and possibly elsewhere here in the States? The Bush family have been stealing elections from other countries (mostly third world countries) for years so they are masters at this by now.

[EST]

34. That slolution is the one that most of us, when we've

gotten about halfway through our reasoning on the problem, fetcd up against. You sound(read) like a bright, thoughtful person; I think, once you have dug a little more, you'll find the only solution that will work the best, with the least amount of pain.
In my view, all the logic so far has led to a get out now solution as the only workable one. Could you take a little time and enlighten me as to why and how we can or should stay longer? Thanks in advance.

[MissMarple]

7. Unless they understand that our staying in Iraq keeps it destabilized.

We broke it, but we can't buy it, and we can't fix it. :shrug:

[merh]

23. Exactly - it will never be stablized as long as we are there.

We broke it, but we can't buy it and we can't fix it.

We have to pull out now, for our sake and the sake of the Iraqi people.

[FreedomAngel82]

30. I still remember sometime late last year

on MSNBC watching Tom Brokaw and his special on all he's seen as a tv journalist. Towards the end he was in Iraq in the very beginning before it got bad with a camera man walking around the town. He saw a group of young men about twenty-thirty something and he went over to them and asked one guy what he thought of everything. Guess what the guy said? He said, "I'd like to fight the Americans. Not the people, but the government." They know what's going on. Why else do you think they destroy oil fields?

[merh]

32. They don't hate us for our freedom or our religion.

They hate our leaders. They know the truth. :mad:

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. As usual we lead, they follow

so what has changed folks?

[flyarm]

11. I AM MORE THAN A BIT

sick of biden...does anyone else remember that jeff gannon mentioned biden meeting him in his blog after..after biden was on the bill maher show and was blasting this white house for gannon being in the press breifing room..it seems since that day that gannon posted his meeting and daring biden ..that biden has sold out..too many coinsidences for my taste...

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. he is one that needs to go

I have my list of choice senators, and one happens to be in my state

[FreedomAngel82]

31. I still find that interesting

Isn't Biden a PNACer too? Very interesting indeed. Of course for all we know Gannon could be being a pothole. I don't trust Biden though myself. There's just something about him that isn't trust worthy. I trust Kerry way more then I do Biden and he (Kerry) has the whole S&B thing going on. I don't get any funny vibes with S&B though. Not like I do with PNAC and Bohemian Grove. Now that there is some major jivies.

[garybeck]

8. PUH - LEEEZE. there's more than one issue here

Cindy's position on the pullout is a separate issue from the reason she is in Crawford.

She is in Crawford to get answers from Bush about why he son was sent to die in Iraq.

Her position on the war is well-known but should not be the main topic at this point. the main topic is questioning why we went there in the first place - why did the president lie about the reasons? what were the real reasons?

we can discuss the best way to get out of there, but that should not divide us at this point. Cindy is there for answers, not to demand a pullout. at least that's my understanding.

[choie]

20. you're right!

everybody seems to be losing sight of that fact. Cindy is there to get answers from Bush as to why her son and other people have died in Iraq. Also to say "j'accuse" - that Bush lied to Americans and the world in order to get us into this war. The media is failing to focus on this point, but we can't..

[OzarkDem]

22. He didn't need to announce it to the world

Sorry, but the fact he needed to publicly join Bush in disagreeing with her wasn't called for and is counterproductive, IMHO.

[The Stranger]

10. Like I said, the Democrats will say 50,000 things about the simplest

story (Iraq war unpopular with U.S. population, so end the conflict), while the Republicans will say the same thing 50,000 about the most complex story.

This is why we lose.

[marmar]

12. Typical spineless DLCer reaction...

They have this golden opportunity now to etch out a strong populist position with the national sentiment moving in the direction it is now, but they have no clue what to do. I would have a hard time voting for Biden if he ended up being the nominee in 2008.

[FreedomAngel82]

33. I guess they don't read the polls?

If Biden really really wanted to be the nominee in 2008 he would be doing the complete opposite. Every poll I've seen since Terri Schavio has been against Bush.

[mitchtv]

13. so, what's new?

Biden is a nobody, going nowhere.Charter member of the pink tutu crowd.

[DanCa]

15. I am so sorry that i once backed biden

I am glad I found out now, am I forgiven?

[garybeck]

16. it's OK for democrats to not favor an immediate pullout

just because a person does not think an immediate pullout is the best idea, it doesn't mean they support the war; it doesn't mean they support Bush; and it doesn't mean they don't support Cindy's demand for answers about the real reasons we went there.

my guess is Biden is one of many who would like to end this horrible nightmare as soon as possible without making it worse for our troops and the people in Iraq. there is a valid concern that if we pull out immediately that chaos will result. Yes I know there is already chaos. But their concerns are valid and disagreeing about the timing and details of the pullout does not imply disagreeing about the war in general.

[Hubert Flottz]

19. He morphes into Zell on Tuesdays!

Joey L's on Sundays. He's Mr DLC...another top make-up artist and studio dem.

Edit...Keep watching, they'll have to rush him back to Hollywood if his hair gets messed up.

[Rhiannon12866]

25. Joe Biden was on "Meet the Press" on Sunday.

This must be what this is about. He was asked about Iraq, no surprise, among numerous other subjects. No, he doesn't agree with Cindy Sheehan, doesn't support an immediate pullout of our troops from Iraq. He's one of those who believes that we have to "stay and finish the job." This is nothing new for him. He's been saying pretty much the same thing for as long as I've been listening...:shrug:

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

26. Biden never misses a chance to stab a progressive in the back.