Al Franken is an idiot - who is with me?

[no_to_war_economy]

so sick of hearing him say we need more troops? "we cannot fail there"

ok if we invade and conquer a people the right way, it will take at a minimum of 100,000 additional troops

we pay 5 BILLION a month now for Iraq, additional 100,000 troops probably tack on 2 billion per month

Al, do you want to keep spending more treasure and BLOOD

Al, do we even have 100,000 more troops to give (edit)

F U FRANKEN

[candy]

1. O'Reilly agrees with you.

[Mairead]

2. Not a news flash, as far as I'm concerned

I've never thought him funny, and I've never thought him even as left-of-center as Nixon. He's a rather right-wing shlubb, as far as I've ever been able to tell.

[LiberalVoice]

5. "He's a rather right-wing shlubb"

That is ridiculous. Not even remotely correct.

[Mairead]

20. Franken's politics are those of the DLC, ergo: rightwing

And I call him a shlubb because his level of humor could get him a slot writing for Mallard Fillmore.

[walldude]

69. You obviously didn't read his books...

Maybe you should. Franken is right. If we stay in Iraq we need more troops, better armor, basic necessities like socks and toilet paper. While I think we should pull out and let the Army Corps Of Engineers go in and rebuild the infrastructure if we are going to stay we need to re-evaluate what's needed...

[bpilgrim]

74. frankin is WRONG on this and i have read him

and listen to him. though whole 'we need more troops in iraq' TP is the DLC's way to out thug the fucking CRAZIES and is ARROGANT in the extreme.

how many millions do we have to kill to make things 'right'?

how many millions did we kill in vietnam and they still kept coming?

why can't the 'best & the brightest' learn this lesson?

cause they live in ivory towers and fancy themselves as arm chair generals.

the more people we murder the WORSE it will get, bet.

peace

[LiberalVoice]

3. I agree with Franken.

The last time I mentioned this I got flamed. :shrug: No point in even arguing anymore.

[bpilgrim]

4. he represents establishment dems - aka limo lib's - at the end-of-the-day

i'm still glad he's on the radio, though


http://media.globalfreepress.com

peace

[Gabi Hayes]

10. he's a self-described DLC democrat

I got flamed myself for pointing that out, as well as the fact that he ignored the implications of the all out media attack on the NARAL ad last week, vs. the all out attack (by the SAME media) on KERRY when the swiftboat ad came out last year

I think he performs a valuable service most of the time, especially when he points out the never-ending stream of RW lies, but he just doesn't go that last mile, all the way out to the left wing edge.

[orleans]

37. agree. n/t

[nolabels]

49. LIke who cares about the DLC, the bunch of losers anyway

The propaganda ministers can't even trot the dog and pony show DLC'ers out there anymore to support their losing Iraq cause. It's not IF Bush deciding to pull the troops out of his failed Iraq initiative, it just the question of WHEN will they will have to leave



Iraq /August 17, 2005
US desperate for deal before its influence wanes
By Bronwen Maddox
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7374-1738079,00.html

Public's doubts grow about Iraq war
By Mark Silva and Mike Dorning
Chicago Tribune
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002441711_wardoubts16.html

[Lex]

6. A lot of right wingers would agree with you.

I don't agree with everything Al Franken says, but many voices and viewpoints make up the Democratic party.

[PunkPop]

34. Yes unfortunately, even the wrong ones.

**sigh**

[iconoclastNYC]

7. FRANKEN = DLC Republican Lite

I want democrats who offer real leadership.

[LiberalVoice]

13. Hes a radio host.

Not a politician(At least not yet anyways)

[iconoclastNYC]

14. What's your point?

Everything he says and does is in keeping with the platform of the DLC.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

26. Not a politician? The aspirations are there............. n/t

[markus]

36. The sound of money being fanned in front of a candidate's face

What you're hearing is a potential candidate for U.S. Senate or other office, listening to his new friends as the DSCC and DNC as they fan money in front of him.

It's not evil, but it's wrong. It is, however, the way the current system is rigged.

I'm disappointed, but I would still consider voting for him if I were in Minnesota, based on the sum total of his views and actions.

[Teaser]

8. One can be wrong and

not an idiot.

So no, I'm not with you.

Al has been useful for us. He has also been snowed on Iraq.

It happens.

[NYCGirl]

9. Rush, is that you? NT

[Lex]

11. LOL!

[CatWoman]

12. I get sooooooooo sick of this shit

:nuke:

[Mad_Dem_X]

67. Me too - I don't agree with everything

he says, but I like him. I love his show.

[no_to_war_economy]

18. hillary? that you

you were suppose to come over last night

signed,

Joe Biden

[NYCGirl]

19. Although I'm not a fan of our senator, if I had to choose to emulate

either her or that gasbag Limbaugh, I know who I'd choose.

Right, Rushbo?

[The Night Owl]

15. Franken is correct. The troops must stay in Iraq...

The troops must stay in Iraq or thousands of Iraqis will die. That, among other things, is what sucks about The Chimp's idiotic decision to invade and occupy Iraq.

[iconoclastNYC]

16. Thousands are dying.

I hope you faught against the US lead sanctions which created an increase in infanty mortality that lead to 100,000 dead children.

[Gabi Hayes]

23. unfortunately, the MOMENT we live, thousands will die

that's the way it's been ever since we invaded.

there IS no viable solution

they...and we...are SCREWED for decades to come

if only for the fact that they have, what HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of TONS of munitions with which to fashion IEDs.....enough to last, essentially forever

[endarkenment]

27. The rapist:

-cant stop raping you until you stop screaming.

The thief - can't stop robbing your house until he's got all the goods and cleaned up all the evidence of the crime.

The perpetrators always have good reasons for why they did what they did and why they can't quite stop just yet.

Out now. Resist Fascism.

[PunkPop]

28. I thought that was sarcasm

until I read the last sentence.

I believe July set a record at the Baghdad morgue - 1100 bodies. You might think about finding another justification for the continued presence of US troops.

[LiberalVoice]

30. I wouldnt argue.

Most DUers believe we should leave. Regardless of how many more Iraqi's will die if we do. I've tried to have discussions about it but its no use. Im not flaming anyone...I just disagree completely with most DUers opinion on that matter. :shrug: Its really not worth the aggrivation.

[Drewskie]

38. ...

thousands of Iraqi's will die anyways... nothing we can do about it.

[bpilgrim]

43. thousands ARE dying

with them there, hello...

Sy hersh says we need to get out as fast as we can... i'm with sy aka "Sister Mary Sunshine"

video clip from a recent daily show...
http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/002302.html#002302

psst... pass the word ;->

peace

[The Night Owl]

56. So why make a horrible situation even worse?

The US invasion and occupation of Iraq was a mistake that led to tragedy of Biblical proportions. A US withdrawal from Iraq would be another mistake that would virtually ensure more tragedy of Biblical proportions for Iraq.

Not thinking ahead got us into the mess. We need to think ahead to get out of the mess.

[bpilgrim]

61. pulling out of an illegal war will not make it any worse!

us staying there only prolongs it.

how many more do we have to fucking KILL to make it all better?!?

think about that


http://images.globalfreepress.com

peace

[Gabi Hayes]

17. right now, he's got David Brock on, talking about how Tony Snow

lied about Kerry regarding his "quote" on the 'nuisance' of terrorism.


they read the quote where Kerry said he hoped that some day they'd be able to reduce the threat of terrorism to a nuisance. the RW promptly SAID Kerry called terrorism a mere nuisance. this is exactly what they did to Gore, and what got the momentum going against him, re: Gore the liar, the exaggerator

this is where he's at his best: deconstructing just what utter liars they are, and in a way that's palatable for less hardline listeners (like me)

[moc]

25. I like him for the same reasons

I like how he destroys the lies of the right. Did you hear him go after the guy who wrote "The Truth About Hillary"? It was priceless. :-)

I think many people disagree on the pull the troops out now issue. That doesn't mean I dismiss them.

[Gabi Hayes]

that was classic....then, they ran it on Sundance, which I taped

that was even BETTER, seeing Klein's lying mug when they nailed him

even BETTER was when they discussed on a later show that Klein's publisher TOLD him that Conaspon was going to be on the show, which Klein claimed he didn't know, and considered a sandbag job on Franken's part

they just lie so brazenly

and, have you noticed how that book, after big initial sales, really tanked?

very gratifying

[bpilgrim]

48. while at the same time he takes apart our own -> naral

and wouldn't filibuster the RW extremist Robberts :crazy:


http://www.naral.org

this is now that was then

listen to him whine over the ad...
http://news.globalfreepress.com/mp3/aar/af/aar-af-NARAL.web.mp3

his DLC politics are LAME, especially today, but like i said i am glad he is on the radio :hi:

peace

[MamaBear]

64. Thanks for the Link

I stopped listening to Franken on November 3, 2004, when he stood up to bravely scream "Nobody's saying anybody stole the election!!" and then had that soundbyte repeated ad nauseam for weeks afterword, while ... oh, you know the story.

Al Franken is about Al Franken and Al Franken's bank account. He made that plain in his endless screeds on Social Security, in which he figured out a way to leave the poor heavily taxed, put some small additional burden on the extremely wealthy, and exempt himself. Typical Al. Not to be believed. Not to be trusted.

It's a pity he's the centerpiece of Air America. He is truly an empty suit.

For some, that he's "our" empty suit makes that okay. :shrug:

[bpilgrim]

65. no worries

as a liberal, i of course can appreciate his talent and his efforts to expose these lying fucks and i'll always be grateful for his efforts but i will not shy away from pointing out the flaws in his arguments, since he's a public figure claiming to represent us and this is a critical time and our history as i know he understands and i'm sure al is big enough to take it ;->

:hi:

peace

[slor]

21. 5 billion ?

I heard yesterday it is between 6 and 7 billion.

[endarkenment]

22. So it depends...

Is Iraq a defining issue? I say it is. Within both parties there operates a faction that I and others label the "War Party". if you think we ought to be 'winning' in Iraq, you are a member of the War Party. You might still be a progressive Democrat on other defining issues, for example social security, but on this issue you are standing on the wrong side of the fence as far as I am concerned, and that is a huge problem with me, just as if Franken continually sided with the SS-wreckers on that issue.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

24. And that is why I listen to Thom Hartmann. n/t

[shireen]

32. me too. Hartmann rocks! n/t

[movonne]

29. I do not listen to him and will not until he changes his ways...

[Mr_Spock]

31. I get physically ill listening to him stuttering through - so embarrassed

He's not funny - the "ad lib" style is so disconcerting as to make me feel ill while listening. The flow of the show is TERRIBLE and he's NOT funny AT ALL. I was his biggest fan a while back when he got this thing going, now he should go run for office and leave the talk show circuit to the professionals. I hate to be harsh, but there are a lot better choices out there for syndication from what I heard from fill-in hosts this summer...

[oasis]

33. Franken's losing support among lefties? Let's see how many wait in line

at his next book signing.

[NYCGirl]

35. Which will be released

in October. I'll be at his book signing!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0525949062/qid=1124303948/sr=8-3/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i3_xgl14/002-4763989-5681634?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[oasis]

39. Get there early because the line will be wrapped around the block.

[NYCGirl]

40. Yep, saw Bill Maher at a signing last week, and the crowd was enormous!

Al's going to be at the same store in October.

[grytpype]

41. poster, try using your brain for a second.

What do you think is going to happen if we lose Iraq? That's what you "pull out now" people are saying, let's declare defeat and go home. Do you think that will be the end of this? Not by a long shot. Iraq will fall apart, Turkey and Iran will get drawn into the war, maybe even Russia, and WW3 will commence.

What we need now, thanks to Bush's incompetence and arrogance, is a nationwide mobilization on the scale of WW2, with a draft, and government seizure of productive capacity to make weapons, armor and ammunition. We need another 500,000 troops in Iraq ASAP, a squad on every block on every street in Iraq. It sucks, but that's the situation Bush has gotten us into.

[no_to_war_economy]

42. right the domino theory

turkey will become communist Iran will become communist ? Vietnam too? no, wait!

Iraq is arabic for Vietnam

[bpilgrim]

44. we already LOST iraq, hello...

the longer we stay the more blood & treasure we loose.

china, russia and UBL hope we never leave.

peace

[Minstrel Boy]

45. you forgot the "sarcasm" tag

I hope.

"We need another 500,000 troops in Iraq ASAP, a squad on every block on every street in Iraq."

And you used your brain, and your brain told you this?

"What do you think is going to happen if we lose Iraq?"

I was only a 12 year-old Canadian kid in 1972, but damned if I don't remember handwringing domino theorists fretting about "losing Vietnam."

You know what? Vietnam wasn't yours to lose 30 years ago, and neither is Iraq today.

How about you try this for a change? Get the troops home, get your own house in order, and stop bombing other people out of theirs.

[Strelnikov_]

54. The Region Around Vietnam Did Not Have 66% Of The Worlds

remaining oil reserves.

Can you imagine what would happen if a (couple) year(s) from now, the Gulf region devolved into Civil War, and the oil supplies are lost to modern industrial society.

On Edit: Not saying we can't leave. But the current conflict is a much, much (much) more dangerous situation from a strategic standpoint than Vietnam ever was.

[Minstrel Boy]

72. In other words

Blood for oil.

[Mr Rabble]

57. Im with you on this. nt

[endarkenment]

47. You can't lose what you don't own. nt.

[Gabi Hayes]

53. so...how long do we STAY there to keep that from happening?

a year?

five?

ten?

twenty?

no matter HOW long we stay, the moment we leave, the same thing's going to happen.

if you can come up with a plan that would change the stability situation, you should present it, and enjoy your stay in whatever office for which you choose to run, cause NOBODY has an answer


that's because there IS none

that's why this invasion was such an evil disaster

I think they did this, knowing that, either way, the war works to their advantage:

outcome 1) we "win," and the PNACers have their ME base for expansion into the region, plus a buffer for their JINSAN/AIPAC buds

outcome 2) perpetual chaos/war, which means the furtherance of the state of war mentality here and abroad, strengthening of the PATRIOT Act, etc, as well as their grip on power

[grytpype]

55. Iraq is no longer a war of choice, it is now a war of necessity.

Look, I agree 100% that it was incredibly evil and stupid to invade Iraq. It was a war of choice. Bush could have and should have chosen not to invade.

But look at the situation now. Because Bush totally fucked up the invasion and occupation, Iraq is going to become a failed state and a terrorist incubator 100 times worse than Afghanistan ever was. If that happens, there will be consequences! The whole region will get drawn into the war!

It's a sick and horrible fact that we are stuck in Iraq. We can't un-invade and have everything go back to the pre-war state, it's impossible.

How long will we be in Iraq? I don't know. Ten years, maybe. Maybe more.

Will more soldiers die? Yes, thousands. And they will be draftees.

Iraq is going to turn out to be worse than Vietnam... we could pull out of Vietnam and let it fall because Vietnam was really of no strategic importance. Can't do that with Iraq.

But this is all just chatter anyway, Bush is too weak to do what needs to be done to win the war and there is no public support for it anyway. We will lose Iraq and the consequences will be horrible.

[Gabi Hayes]

59. war of neccessity, which you say we're going to lose, right?

quite a conundrum, isn't it?

as I said, we're screwed royally, no matter what we do.

it reminds me of global warming, in a way: irreversible forces have been unleashed, and NO MATTER WHAT we do, it's too late to have any effect on what's going to happen

did you hear about the melting permafrost in Siberia? the size of Germany and France combined? that's just the beginning

sure am glad I don't have kids

[bpilgrim]

63. NONSENSE - we have all ready LOST, hello...

how many dead bodies will make us win?

we killed almost 3 million in vietnam and they never stopped coming.

wtf 'needs to be done'?!? nuke'm? :nuke:

we need to get the fuck out, NOW!!!

peace

[spuddonna]

58. Isn't that the same reason we couldn't leave Nam?

Because the communist takeover would spread across the world?

I mean, why would Turkey, Iran and Russia lead to WWIII? I'm just asking...

[Strelnikov_]

60. Quagmire. We Can't Stay. We Can't Leave.

Ramping up (along with with massive aid/rebuilding) as you suggest is one solution. That is, make a real effort.

The other approach, of course, is to pull out. If we do, we had better put the WW2 level mobilization effort into energy transformation, because we will be losing Gulf oil within a few years thereafter.

Not being an NSA expert, I cannot say in which path the least risk lies. But, just on what I know, I say pull-out. My rationale is as follows:

- There is no guarantee that the rampup would work in preventing general gulf-wide civil war.
- Either path will take vast amounts of resources. At least at the end of the pull-out option we will have transformed our energy supply.
- Even if rampup works, the region will be out of oil in 20-30 years anyway.

One thing I can say for sure, the current approach is not working.

And if we do pull out, and a massive energy transformation is not implemented immediately thereafter, we are in big trouble.

Rent or read 'The Postman'. Doesn't sound like fun.

[MisterP]

71. well then, put your mouth where yer monkey is

if it's so bloody important!

[tx_dem41]

46. I see we have the daily "I Hate Franken" post.

Wonderful. We're like Hollywood. Nothing original. Just regurgitation.

[Snotcicles]

50. yep, makes ya wonder who they Really are. n/t

[bpilgrim]

52. nothing wrong with liberals critiquing other libs

insinuating we are freeps is frowned upon though, here

fyi

peace

[bpilgrim]

51. Franken has only himself to blame

when he starts spouting DLC TP whaddaya expect :shrug:

us evil DU'ers are on top of things, so it is much harder to slip that nonsense by us ;->

peace

[Behind the Aegis]

62. .

:eyes:

[NervousRex]

66. I reluctantly agree.

Franken jumped the shark when he split with Tom Davis. I find his show insufferable. Lanpher rubs me like steel wool, and has since she was on Mid-Morning on MPR. Thom Hartmann is the man to listen to during that time of day. GOD I hope Franken and his Ego do not run for Senate in MN...Jesse the "Mind" was enough of a celebrity/novelty to last a lifetime. Franken is another rich asshole with no experience and completely out of touch with the people...Sorry Al, buying a condo in St. Anthony Main doesn't make you a resident of my fair city. Get outta the way and let David Wellstone run.

[sendero]

68. Idiot?

No, I don't agree.

I completely disagree with his position, just repeating the mantra "we cannot fail" does not give us the power to not fail. There is, IMHO, no real success to be had in Iraq, no matter what we do. But does that one disagreement make Franken an "idiot"? Not IMHO.

That said, there are now a smattering of "liberals" on the radio. Springer, Franken, Randi, Schultz - I don't agree with any of them 100% of the time but I'm grateful they are there.

Take Schultz for instance. Now, sometimes he's ok and sometimes I really disagree with him but you know what? There are tons of Americans who are comfortable with his version of "progressive".

And we need every one of them.

Franken being for or against the war isn't likely to end or prolong it much. Having nominally liberal voices on the radio is a giant leap forward.

[bertha katzenengel]

70. I'm not with you

nor am I with Franken. I don't much care what a pundit says anyway, from the left or right. :shrug:

[mac56]

73. People who bash Al Franken are short sighted- who's with me?

edited on review

[sakabatou]

75. I think Al should have just stuck writing books in my opinion

He's isn't a very good host

[gort]

76. to leave now, will kill more people

Unfortunately, we destroyed Iraq and now we need to fix it.

More troops are needed to help keep the ones there alive.

The exit strategy should be to indict everyone involved with Halliburton and those mercenary spooks who work for the security firms that are torturing civilians.

Impeach Bush, Cheney and all of his lawless cabinet.

As we use Civil Engineers in coalition with Iraqis`hired to rebuild the country that they are so proud of we can hopefully keep them so busy that they'll stop trying to kill us.

As we fix things and apologize to the Iraqis we should cautiously back up, get everyone of our men and women the fuck out and never come back.

Bush got us into this mess, but we are the ones who will have to get us out of it.

It's a dream, I know, but wouldn't it be great to see Bush rot in The Hague?