Just in: Trouble ahead for Cindy and Camp Casey?

[shance]

Just received this email:

I've just received word that the Mclennan County Commisioners Court
has an action item on tomorrow's agenda: "Consider the prohibition of
public demonstrations along Prairie Chapel Rd." This is real and real
serious. They could pass this measure and send the Sherriff out and
have Camp Casey cleared out by noon. We will be seeking injunctive
relief but its a crapshoot at this point.

We are trying to field a team of lawyers down there but its a tight
time-frame. Any well-dressed bodies willing to show up and articulate a defense of the 1st Amendment to the Commissioners is welcome (by us -
probably not by them) and invited. Please - this will get media so if
you show and go - decorum is appreciated.

http://www.crawfordpeacehouse.org/
9:00 a.m.McLennan County Courthouse
501 Washington Ave.
Waco, Texas 76701

Courthouse is located on the west edge of downtown between
5th and 6th streets - all I have...Please spread the word - if Cindy
gets moved out for even a short while we'll never get her back in
that spot.


Todd Hill
Mid-Cities Democrats
Tarrant Young Democrats
www.midcitiesdemocrats.com
http://www.tarrantyoungdemocrats.org/
www.securingamerica.com
817-715-3154
[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. more power to them

I hope they try that.
If they do (being on private property, no less) this story will grow and grow substantially.

You see what happens when a message is effective.

[FreedomAngel82]

8. That's right

Now they're on private property. It's up to the guy who owns the land isn't it? Couldn't they try to take away his land from that new law?

[Dissenting_Prole]

21. Can you say...

Eminent Domain?

[The Backlash Cometh]

41. That would be an abuse that not even the Supreme Court would approve of.

[okieinpain]

69. yeah, right. sure.

[elehhhhna]

53. More like His Emminence's Domain.

[oasis]

76. Crawford evictions:Bring it on. The Gaza evictions will take a back seat.

[SammyWinstonJack]

2. .

:kick:

[Search Party]

7. "bring 'em on"

:kick:

[wanpete]

3. This message and movement is scaring them...

it's obvious.

[Imagevision]

77. Well then don't be surprised when you hear Cindy's shut down!

She's sending out too powerful a message and they don't know of way to make her simply go away: enter a Bush judge to the rescue, I'm surprised it lasted this long -> Cindy... Washington, next stop! this totally sucks!!

[politicaholic]

4. People give away freedom so easily...

it's sad really.

[FreedomAngel82]

5. Isn't that against their first amendment rights?

It's so pathetic and makes me so angry we can't even protest in this country anymore!

[htuttle]

6. "...Then they fight you,..."

"Then you win."

[Gyre]

9. Enactment and Enforcement now against Cindy

would be violative of the US Constitution's prohibition against ex post facto laws.

Gyre

[Spinzonner]

35. Only if the law was made retroactive to previous acts

Don't think that's the intention here.

The fact that the actions started earlier is not relevant.

[phiddle]

10. Kicked and nominated

[annabanana]

11. They're planning to tell a guy what he can and cannot do

ON HIS OWN PROPERTY??

Won't that be a tough sell?

[anarchy1999]

15. Not if they just shut down Prairie Chapel Road to residents only.

Watch for National Security etc and security for the residents living on the road to become the issue.

This is going to be interesting.

[noamnety]

38. If it's open to residents only

Then Condi and Cheney can't visit.

[Lindacooks]

79. Now THAT'S a good point!

[sattahipdeep]

43. Commissioner Ray Meadows said, buy the property

Commissioner Ray Meadows said, "I will be out there again today
when the buses run. I will take care of the road just like any
other road I would. What we're dealing with is a liability and
a safety issue."

"There's a lot of property for sale there;
buy a piece of property," he said when asked about a solution.

[sunnystarr]

61. Well i guess if they rent it then they're residents (nt)

[Scout1071]

67. Great point. Maybe they could pay Mr. Mattlage (the sane one) $1.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

48. Been doing it in Iraq since Bremer puked out his "orders".

[rateyes]

72. Why do they hate America? eom

[punpirate]

12. This might be a bit dated...

... what I read most recently is that they are already moving to loaned space on private property, and, moreover, that the county commission has to put it on the agenda for public comment for thirty days before it can be voted upon, according to lawyers there.

[Rose Siding]

17. I read about that, too. The commish can't vote for 30 dys

...so it won't matter to Cindy's stay.

It could matter later down the line for other protests, I suppose.

[despairing optimist]

28. You're right. Cindy was on AAR's Morning Sedition today

and said this during the phone interview. It's a moot issue since she'll have moved Camp Casey to DC by then. I hope she relocates to the Ellipse so Chimp can spot her during banana breaks in the Oval Office.

[kath]

44. "banana breaks" - BWAH!!!

[montana_hazeleyes]

66. LLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

:rofl:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

13. If they are on private property

they aren't on the road. If anyone says they can't be on private land, then I want the ridiculous Bush shrine with the Liberty Bell and Ten Commandments in Crawford torn down.

[Maddy McCall]

16. But what happens if, for some reason, the property owner decides...

to close his property to the protesters?

Then they have nowhere to go.

Dammit, I was afraid that something like this could happen. I hope that Fred is sincere in his offer and that there's no monkey business planned after Camp Casey is moved.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

26. This won't come to vote for 30 days

Hold on I'm looking for the link now.

[Maddy McCall]

29. Unless they move to vote tomorrow.

:grr: I've seen town and county councils do that many times.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

33. Same here...

Here's a snippet from the Waco paper.

"Precinct 4 Commissioner Ray Meadows, whose precinct includes the president's ranch, said he is considering sponsoring an ordinance that would push traffic back from the president's front gate from several hundred feet to four or four-and-a-half miles.

“I am very sensitive to private property ownership,” Meadows said. “Those property owners, I know most of them, and they are good people... I think we need a little help out there for those people. I am going to stand up for the property owner. It's not because of the protest. I believe in freedom of speech. But I believe those people have freedom of getting up and down the road.”

Meadows, who said he has received “very disturbing e-mails calling me names and cuss words” from those professing to support Sheehan, said he will propose amending the no-parking ordinance, which could take a month or more to come to a vote because of public notice and public hearing requirements.

“This is a not a political issue,” Meadows said. “It is a safety issue. That is what I keep hammering on. It is not a freedom of speech issue. It is a safety issue.”

http://www.wacotrib.com/news/content/news/stories/2005/08/17/20050817waccommish.html


It's total BS and I expect this will be a very big deal when it does come up.

[Skip Intro]

55. They shouldn't have to be on private property

bush is a servant of the people, and answerable to the people

in DC, the WH is forced to endure protests, an exercize of the power and right guaranteed us, the people, by the Constitution which they are sworn, to US, to uphold. Freedom of speech, Freedom to demand answers. Its says something when in the great US of A , rights are being attacked by the very people sworn, to US, to protect them.

If Crawford is the western White House, the people have a right to protest, on public property.

That being said, I'm glad they've evidently got somewhere to go. If the powers that be make some ruling that forces Camp Casey to disband instead of moving, Cindy and the other patriots should force the "authorities" to remove them. Get that in the media. There's a martyr. There's coverage. America sees what the bush gang really thinks of freedom.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

14. As always, the chimp's thugs do his dirtywork for him.

While the coward dashes away to Idaho. :puke:

[jokerman93]

18. Time for civil disobedience?

I wonder if anyone is down there educating the demonstrators on this...

[BigBearJohn]

19. What's next? Pennsylvania Avenue?

[wtmusic]

20. Crawford will have problems with this:

"Public streets and parks, including those adjacent to courthouses and foreign embassies, as well as public libraries and the grounds of legislative bodies, are open to public demonstrations, although the uses to which public areas are dedicated may shape the range of permissible expression and conduct that may occur there. Moreover, not all public properties are thereby public forums. ''The First Amendment does not guarantee access to property simply because it is owned or controlled by the government.'' ''The crucial question is whether the manner of expression is basically compatible with the normal activity of a particular place at a particular time.'' Thus, by the nature of the use to which the property is put or by tradition, some sites are simply not as open for expression as streets and parks are. But if government does open non-traditional forums for expressive activities, it may not discriminate on the basis of content or viewpoint in according access. The Court in accepting the public forum concept has nevertheless been divided with respect to the reach of the doctrine. The concept is likely, therefore, to continue be a focal point of judicial debate in coming years.

Speech in public forums is subject to time, place, and manner regulations, which take into account such matters as control of traffic in the streets, the scheduling of two meetings or demonstrations at the same time and place, the preventing of blockages of building entrances, and the like. Such regulations are closely scrutinized in order to protect free expression, and, to be valid, must be justified without reference to the content or subject matter of speech, must serve a significant governmental interest, and must leave open ample alternative channels for communication of the information. A recent formulation is that a time, place, or manner regulation ''must be narrowly tailored to serve the government's legitimate content-neutral interests, but . . . need not be the least- restrictive or least-intrusive means of doing so.'' All that is required is that ''the means chosen are not substantially broader than necessary to achieve the government's interest.'"

http://supreme.lp.findlaw.com/constitution/amendment01/20.html

[Rainscents]

22. Cindy mentioned no such action this afternoon when she talked to

Randi Rhodes... Only thing Cindy said, they have start it to move to new place as of this morning.

[JanusAscending]

23. WHAT?!!

I was under the impression that Camp Casey was moving up closer to the "ranch" at the invite of the property owner. What can the Court do to her if they are on private property? They can't stop people from driving on a public rd. up to that property! Also, as of last night it was reported that they weren't going to be on the court doc until Aug 31st! Are you certain about the sources for this post? Another thing, why has your profile been deleted?:thumbsdown:

[Beetwasher]

24. This Would Be Even Better Than That Northern Asshole Desecrating Soldiers

This would put the story through the stratosphere, I say, go for it, Dumbasses.

[walldude]

25. They are on private land now..

They aren't going anywhere... If they get removed from private land that will be the end of the ass kissing. No Repuke up for re-election will dare approve of government invasion of private land.

[htuttle]

27. Legally speaking, I think the worst they can do is use the health codes

If there are enough people in one place ('enough' may or may not be defined in local law), they might be able to use the health codes to force them to apply for a permit, have a certain amount of bathrooms, medics, etc... Usually, 'enough' to qualify for this means a LOT of people though. Thousands.

One thing to check out if it seems they are going to go this route is to find out about local festivals of comparable size and see if they are held to the same permitting and regulations.

Here in Wisconsin, the Weedstock festival people fought dozens of legal battles with county governments about this sort of thing, and usually won.

[shraby]

30. There's nothing about it on the Crawford Peace House

site.

[Rainscents]

32. I think someone has sent him old news email...

This story was from over the weeeknd.

[shance]

31. What am I missing if someone donated PRIVATE PROPERTY?

for them to 'peacefully exist'.

They are not doing anything but revealing the truth. It's amazing what people will go to in order to smother the truth and make it disappear.

[Generic Other]

34. They won't be on the road by tomorrow. Camp Casey has a new home

on private property.

[Maddy McCall]

37. See post #16.

I know I have a tendency to question people's motives. I just hope that Fred Mattlage's are as honorable as I first believed.

[tanyev]

39. Aren't there some RWingers headed down for their own demonstration?

'Twould be such a pity if they got that law passed before they got there. :evilgrin:

[BrotherBuzz]

45. Hoisted by their own petard!

I like! :rofl:

[sattahipdeep]

36. Read the article I've been saying this all day.

The guy doesn't even own the one acre, his brother does.

9:35 a.m. — Phone Press Conference with Fred Mattlage
Deborah Mathews reporting for The Iconoclast

http://198.65.14.85/News/2005/31-40/33news13.htm

2:45 p.m. Phone Interview with Ann Wright of Camp Casey:

http://198.65.14.85/News/2005/31-40/33news13.htm

[Generic Other]

40. It's a family farm. He co-owns

It seems the folks at the camp are preparing for the move.

[sattahipdeep]

47. Brother Mark actually owns the one acre tract

The property he is offering is co-owned by his brothers Karl and Mark and sister, Patricia.
Brother Mark actually owns the one acre tract where the new camp site will be.

http://198.65.14.85/News/2005/31-40/33news13.htm

[Maddy McCall]

50. Karl is a chiropractor in Waco.

[sattahipdeep]

73. Larry Northern Larry Lynch (Sheriff) Larry Mattlage

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4366624&mesg_id=4366651

Larry Mattlage: You figure it out for yourself. (I did.)

SHOTS FIRED!

Afterward...

The McLennan County Sheriff Larry Lynch came outside Mr. Mattlage’s gate and spoke to the
reporters

Reporters: How long can these people camp out?

Sheriff: There’s no rule on that. There will be some issues brought
up at the Commissioners' Court next week.

http://198.65.14.85/News/2005/31-40/32news2.htm

[tavalon]

42. Too late

Problem already solved. As of tomorrow, they will no longer be on public property. The poor pitiful Bush Junta just can't get a break. Wah!

[MissMarple]

46. You took the words right out of my mouth. Private property.

:) The commissioners are in such a bad spot, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Pepper32]

49. Camp Casey is relocating. So what's their point?

Desperation looks real funny on the Rethugs. Good thing Cindy is staying one step ahead of them.

[Miss Chybil]

52. They filed the motion before the offer of land to move onto. I'm

wondering, if once they are moved, this court action will have any affect?

[earthmama]

74. I hope the court passes this because ...

if they are on private property then they can really do anything BUT it might stop freepers from protesting against Cindy because they are not on private land. Might be a good thing

[Donailin]

51. So Bush is calling the local DA and saying "DO SOMETHING

about that lady ruining my vacation!"

I hope it turns into a fullcourt press circus, just like election 2000!

[BrotherBuzz]

54. I think that DA might have retorted...

"Your bacon, your fire"

[snot]

56. And what about all the court decisions saying abortion protestors have a

right to protest even in the area of the private residences of the abortion providers? If they can protest near the homes of doctors, surely the Cindy folks have a right to protest a couple of miles from the home of the most public figure in the land.

What are the protesters going to do, fire missile at W's house from two miles away? If the Commissioners are that worried, they should block all traffic, not just protesters.

[KyndCulture]

57. they can't do that on PVT Property?

And eminent domain would take way too long... we only need 2 more weeks here.

[TreeHuggingLiberal]

58. It's set up as the perfect moral play...

If Cindy and the rest are removed forcefully, then the scene will be broadcast nation wide. It could be a strong statement to see a mother wishing for nothing more than a reasonable dialog concerning the death of her son to be dragged away for sitting in protest. She wishes only for answers to questions we all deserve to conversate about openly even if we already know the answers, but alas chimpy mcdumbass does nothing besides twiddle his flipping thumbs while hiding under his desk rocking back and forth.

[KyndCulture]

59. that backfires on them if they touch her!

they have to know that.

[Kolesar]

63. bush* is in a lose-lose situation here, then

It will look bad if they set the goon squad on the protestors, and as long as the protestors are there, they get media coverage. Suck on that, RW-MSM.

[tsuki]

60. And when do they bring McArthur and Eisenhower in? eoq

[Kolesar]

64. MacArthur cleared the WW1 vets off of the Ellipse, what did Ike do?

[tsuki]

75. Helped McArthur.

[friesianrider]

62. Kick....nt

[mmonk]

65. Private property now.

Stand your ground. This action comes too late. Make them violate the constitution.

[Jane Austin]

68. I received this letter last Sunday, so

I think the Commissioners Meeting is the one that was held on Monday.

[insane_cratic_gal]

70. Let them.. Then we move it to the White House

bring it to their front steps, or to the hill. Where Senators have to see it every day as they walk by.

[rateyes]

71. Sounds like a bill of particulars to me...

making a law for one group in particular...clearly unconstitutional...as soon as it's passed...have a motion ready for court...and, cameras ready to show the arrests of people non-violently resisting the unconstitutional law---this is really one of the best things that could happen....Cindy and all arrested with her for refusing to move will be remembered as anohter Rosa Parks.

[Imagevision]

78. Obviously Bushco is getting pissed over Cindy calling him out - and can't

do diddly-squat because he hasn't the mental capacity to handle a discussion with anyone who knows more about this war then he does.