2001 anthrax attacks

[Don Claybrook]

Poll question: 2001 anthrax attacks

The anthrax killer is still apparently on the loose. I've heard nothing out of the White House, Justice Dept, etc about anthrax in a long, long time.

Who do you think carried out these attacks, and for what reason? Personally, I firmly believe that this was a government black bag type operation, meant to scare the public out of its wits in the immediate aftermath of September 11. I'd be interested to see polling data about who the average American thinks is responsible for the attacks.

[Roon]

1. I think it was one person involved

and I think it was the person they originally suspected. I forget his name.

[jeff30997]

2. George W Bush ?

[Roon]

11. LOL eom

[Don Claybrook]

3. I don't remember his name either

But why hasn't he been arrested if he's the one? Is it because they don't have enough evidence, or because he's holding something over the government's head?

[pitohui]

7. there is plenty of evidence

they have evidence beyond a doubt that he forged his credentials, including his doctorate, to get employment in classified facilities where biologicals were being developed & studied

his area of specialty was actually ebola & marburg, now think abt that for a minute, keeping in mind his doctorate was forged! yet he was working w. these materials for yrs

he was caught in numerous violations of law, including sexing his girlfriend in a secure area, & getting into an area where anthrax was held, even tho he was supposed to be working on ebola

yet no arrest for any of these provable actions much less the actual mailing of the anthrax

i conclude he was working on someone else's orders, don't you

if he was a lone unabomber, he could have killed a lot more people

[Al-CIAda]

4. U.S. miltary Anthrax distributed to Dems and other strategic

areas of opposition, just as pre-written PNAC fascist legislation was being rammed through?

Gee, I have no idea.

[Don Claybrook]

8. which is why I was wondering about the public reaction

I know I'll get a skewed poll here, with so many like-minded progressives. But I would love to know what John Q Public thinks, given that they were, as you say, ramming PATRIOT through, and that the chemical signature apparently traced back to Fort Detrick. And their scapegoat threatened to sue them. And what of the 19 hijackers being identified after only a day or so, pictures and all? I happen to think that particular story is BS, but if you're an average American, TV-watching person, do you draw the contrast between the crack sleuth work on 9/11 and the apparent ineptitude of the government when it comes to finding the anthrax guy? Of course, they haven't done a real swift job with finding Osama. There seems to be a pattern emerging--the more useful a particular "bad guy" is to us (even an imaginary one), the harder it is to track him down.

This is one of those tinfoily sorts of things that would be difficult

[H5N1]

14. and it worked like a friggin' charm

[donkeyotay]

22. Lol. Just another "average American" here has to agree

that it's a mystery. As much as people like to look down their noses at conspiracy theorists, they also like to complain about how spineless our congress is, but I don't imagine anthrax and spinelessness could be related by rational, show-me types. It was nice tho to have a kinder, gentler terrorists who sent warnings with their anthrax. I imagine many in congress were impressed with the possibility that next time there wouldn't be a letter. And remember poor Daschle? Not only anthrax but death threats to his family. It kind of put a crimp in his spine.

[pitohui]

5. the anthrax was traced to us army facility

stephen hatfill, who apparently did the physical work of getting the anthrax out there, appears to have been a long-time cia asset since his days in africa, where he was also assoc. w. some mysterious anthrax cases

he has never been charged for his multiple proven frauds in claiming he had credentials that gave him access to weaponized anthrax

the fbi is ticked & last i heard continue to keep close watch on him but they are not allowed to arrest

that tells you right there, the orders to spread the anthrax came from pretty high up

[Xithras]

9. It was probably Hatfill, but there really isn't evidence to convict.

We know he worked at the lab where the anthrax strain originated. We know that his job provided him with the knowledge needed to grow anthrax. We know that his job also involved devising bioterror scenarios. The guy had worked with the CIA and appears to still hold onto hardcore anti-leftist views, but that he'd lost his job in some kind of cutback. Finally, we know that he had travelled to the sites of the terror attacks just before they occurred.

Basically, you have another Unabomber or Timothy McVeigh here...a disgruntled white guy with the technical skills to cause a whole lot of damage. In the case of Hatfill, his experience in bioterror response put him in the perfect position to not only pull the attacks off, but to do it without getting caught since he knew what they'd be looking for.

The problem is that all of this together would NEVER get a conviction. We have a pretty good hunch that the guy did it, but without any kind of solid evidence linking him directly to the anthrax or the envelopes, there's no way to prove he actually did anything. It could all just be an amazing series of coincidences, and any decent lawyer would have reasonable doubt established in under 10 minutes.

IMO, Hatfill got away with murder.

[pitohui]

13. why not arrest him for the other crimes tho

why not arrest him for perjury

he got a security clearance on the basis of credentials which lsu quickly discovered didn't exist

if lsu could check it out & discover he was a phony within weeks

why couldn't the u s army

why couldn't the cia

why couldn't the fbi

you could at least get him for the perjury & also the multiple violations of going into secure areas where he didn't have access

they haven't arrested him for anything

too busy arresting martha stewart for supposedly telling a fib to an fbi agent

i think it's a WAY bigger fib to tell multiple fbi agents that you have a doctorate when you don't!

this ain't just one guy or they'd get him for what they CAN get him for a la al capone or martha

someone powerful is covering this dude's ass

[Xithras]

21. Maybe not.

None of those crimes are serious in a legal sense. Did he lie on his application? Yes, which is perjury and a federal crime. But lets be realistic...what is a judge actually going to do to him? Lying on your resume to get a job probably won't get you anything other than a slap on the wrist, maybe a few months of probation. Certainly no jail time.

As for the entry into unauthorized areas, those types of incidents are usually firing offenses and are only prosecuted as additional charges when someone steals something from them. If they can't prove that Hatfill stole anything from those areas, the charge has all the legal standing of a tresspassing charge, and again we're looking at a slap on the wrist.

What was the other charge...that he was snogging a co-worker in a secured area? After the judge finished laughing at the fact that someone was actually charged for something like that, he'd probably just toss it.

Hatfill is free because the government doesn't want to waste time charging and prosecuting someone for crimes that won't result in jailtime.

[Citizen Jane]

6. In this instance I have to put on my

:tinfoilhat:

I normally don't go for conspiracy theories, but this one smells really awful.

[tk2kewl]

10. designed to terrorize the public and burglarize their opponents

[EC]

12. I voted other...

I believe as in the answer above other, that the government (Repuges)(more to the point Neocons) did it, start to finish, but I don't believe there was actually any anthrax, just false reports, including the analysis of substances...

[pitohui]

15. there was plenty of anthrax, 5 people died

and a number of postal workers were severely injured, some permanently

i don't believe bob stevens offed himself just for shits & giggles

[EC]

19. Oh yeah, I believe there was anthrax for the some of the reporters

and others that died, but not in the White House itself (except the Dems offices, which was a mistake since those are the samples traced to the government), and I thought the question was only about the White House exposure. I think this was one of the first instances of trying to tie Iraq in with terrorism. And Gee, Dynocorp was awarded a big contract for vaccines and guess who Dynocorp is part of? Enron... There is a whole time line that is interesting and very good reading here:

http://www.lightwatcher.com/culturejam/anthrax_timeline.html



September 25th, 2001

An envelope at NBC was tested negative. (The same envelope who later tested positive in October). This information didn't become public.
Barry Mawn, FBI doesn't allow to investigate the NBC-Anthrax http://www.policetalk.com/anthrax-fbi.html





The Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), Tommy Thompson, and other Bush cabinet members have been meeting secretly (that is, illegally) with officials of the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA) to develop plans for their Emergency Preparedness Task Force http://www.tetrahedron.org/news/NR011112.html

October 26, 2001

http://www.cjr.org/owners/disney.asp Confirmation that Bentonite isn't the indicator for the Anthrax Spores, but Seneca, as used in the States. Iraq was falsly accused by ABC News and their "four well-placed and separate sources" to be the only country to use Bentonite and writes wrong, that the spores had been indicated with bentonite. http://www.cjr.org/owners/disney.asp

Bentonite, Hydrated (Intestinal) is a natural clay that comes from volcanic ash. It is often used as a thickener in facial masks as it absorbs excess oil and dirt from the skin. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/WTC_Investigation.html


Here's another article that's very good:
http://www.counterpunch.com/boyle0425.html

[mmonk]

16. I voted other

It was a government operation to warn opposition members of Congress and a warning to the media to get in line.

[drduffy]

17. voted 'other' also

because neocons did it to take focus off of investigating 9/11, to make sure Patriot Act passed quickly (note that it had already been mostly written before 9/11) as well as to increase general sense of 'terra' in the populace.

[BluGrl]

18. That sounds interesting but...

The Unabomber went free for years. I think it's one of those types rather than a govt conspiracy. I'm not much of a conspiracy fan. Give me data. LOL

[Catholic Sensation]

20. several things

DU's General Discussion hardly represents the "average American" as any perusal of this section will have more discussion of lunatic conspiracy theories (GEORGE HW BUSH KILLED KENNEDY, BUSH DID 9-11, IRAQ WAS A PRETEXT TO GO TO WAR WITH VENEZUELA!!) than serious issues now.

The anthrax attacks, much like the Oklahoma City bombing, Teddy K, and Eric Rudloph bombings were simple home-grown terrorism coming from anti-government Anarchists from both the far right and far left wings of America.

[Don Claybrook]

23. reply

I completely understand that GD doesn't represent mainstream America. Read the original post again, and you may see that this time around.

I see it's your opinion that this was not connected to the government. That's fine, but please understand it's only an opinion you're expressing, just like the rest of us are. None of us knows the truth on this with any certainty. I only mention that because you have already tried to elevate your opinion above others by implying that these other positions aren't rational. This sort of preemptive posturing is not valid.

[JackRiddler]

24. THIS was the coup

Targets? Leaders of the opposition in the Senate.

All opposition to USA PATRIOT Act collapsed. Only one Senator voted against. Interesting.

[Al-CIAda]

25. Why did the White House go on Cipro Beginning September 11th?

Why did the White House go on Cipro Beginning September 11th?
Were they psychic, or did they know?


Nearly a month before the first reported outbreak, White House officials start taking the powerful antibiotic Cipro to treat anthrax. By the end of the year it will be known that the Ames strain of anthrax used in the attacks against Sens. Leahy and Daschle was produced by CIA programs coordinated through Fort Detrick, the Batelle Memorial Institute and the Dugway Proving Ground.

FBI & BUSH ADMINISTRATION SUED OVER ANTHRAX DOCUMENTS

Judicial Watch Wants to Know Why White House Went on Cipro Beginning September 11th

What Was Known and When?
(Washington, DC) Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption and abuse, said today that it has filed lawsuits against the Federal Bureau of Investigation (“FBI”), the Department of Health and Human Services (“HHS”), the Center for Disease Control (“CDC”), the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (“USAMRIID”) and the U.S. Postal Service (USPS) for those agencies’ failures to produce documents concerning the terrorist anthrax attacks of October 2001, under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act (“FOIA”).

http://www.judicialwatch.org/1967.shtml

-------------
Complete 911 Timeline: Anthrax attacks and microbiologists
Project: Complete 911 Timeline
Open-Content project managed by Paul Thompson

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&theme=anthrax

[MetaTrope]

26. Interesting!

Hatfill, after researching Marburg and Ebola as a bioweapon for South Africa's apartheid government, filled the same role for the U.S. government from 1997 to 1999. When did one of the worst Marburg epidemics in history take place? In 1998. And where did it originate? A gold mine in Durba, Democratic Republic of the Congo.

That gold mine, as it happens, had just recently been taken by rebels from a Canadian mining company called Barrick Gold. And Barrick had become a player in the industry only after getting an enormous tract of gold-bearing land in Nevada in a deal rumored to be ram-rodded by then-President George H.W. Bush. In 1998, Bush was sitting on Barrick's board of directors as an "Honorary Senior Adviser".

Just one of those coincidences, sort of like the Bush family being in business with the bin Laden family.

[ngGale]

27. That was an easy poll question ...

LOL -

[NewJeffCT]

28. hey, my government says there has been no terror here since 9/11

you're supposed to have forgotten about the anthrax attacks and how they took place after 9/11.

[Al-CIAda]

29. Details, details...nt