We are "lucky" to have gas so cheap and no long lines....

[Digit]

That was the spin my local news had this evening. They compared it to Europe where they pay $6.00, and China where they have long lines.
Anyone else feeling lucky?
Anyone??


...i thought not....

[phantom power]

1. Actually, I do feel lucky.

Make no mistake, this is just the beginning. In a few years, we'll be looking back on 2005 gasoline prices as a fond memory.

[Imagevision]

11. How the hell can you say paying $2.73 for gas should make one fortunate??

I don't want to compare the US. to other countries!!!

[phantom power]

14. I'm just enjoying the artificially low prices while I can.

If you think I'm crazy, remember what I said, five or ten years from now.

[TheCowsCameHome]

2. Gosh, I feel so happpy now.

I think I'll park the car and put a brick on the gas pedal just to piss away all this bargain gas.

How fortunate we are.

[okieinpain]

3. yes, I've noticed that is the new msm line, europe pays $6 and

you don't have to wait. it's really cute how that message gets pushed down from the top.

[sui generis]

4. Europe doesn't have oil fields and purchase contracts and

(for the most part) global oil companies and energy funds playing the oil futures markets on long and short positions.

Europe doesn't have gigantic refinery capacity, pipelines, or nearly as much consumption as the U.S., and it is difficult to get gas distributed in Europe for consumption, AND it is taxed differently.

Dear MSM. Do your fucking homework you bunch of brainless twits.

We don't have one valid good reason to raise the price of gas at the moment. The production companies just are because they can and collusion and massive illegally acquired windfall profits aren't illegal under this administration.

Dear MSM. Do your homework.

[julianer]

19. Er, yes it does.

Europe has large oil fields that have been exploited for decades. Most European countries are highly developed, at least as technologically advanced, if not more so, than the US and there is no shortage or giant oil refineries or pipelines or any other form of constraint on fuel production or distribution. There are no shortages of fuel.

The reason prices are higher in Europe is because most countries whack hefty taxes on fuel, both as a sure revenue stream and in order to discourage use. Without these taxes our oil prices might even be lower than those in the US, but I'm not sure about that.

[sui generis]

21. not referring to outer Mongolia or the Siberian steps

and you are completely mistaken about taxes being levied to "discourage use" - that's your own bias, and that's not how taxes work, and gas pricing is not uniform across all of Europe or even particularly within the EU member nations.

I addressed taxes, and I addressed investments from a global investment perspective. I work daily with investments from 500 million to 1.5 billion in many sectors, including energy. Most of the energy investment criteria centers on domestic companies with foreign leases, or else on overturning local legislation that prevents domestic exploration on Federal land, including national parks, wildlife preserves, etc.

Investments in my part of the investment industry look for high short term yields to justify their placement, as well as clean exits within a fixed number of years. Therefore, investments into R & D that may or may not yield results in the long term are generally avoided by the "sophisticated" investor.

In general, the investment community is not going to move us towards hydrocarbon fuel independence without some serious secondary technological advances - I don't know, lightweight capacitors that run for a week on a hard piss and can be moulded into seat cushions. Certainly the oil industry itself won't see any need to develop alternative energy sources until its investment base starts fleeing, and that will only happen well into a supply related energy crash.

My statements were not meant to be a statement of "superiority" because we have (barely) lower prices. If it's more expensive in Europe it will become EVEN MORE expensive as we head towards that energy crash. You have a cycle of hotter summers and colder winters that is just beginning and is likely to continue for the foreseeable future in Central Europe and the north American coastlines - those environmental cycles will also add to energy consumption and higher prices everywhere, and we haven't even begun to discuss growth in Asian energy demand.

[julianer]

23. You don't understand what I'm saying

I am not being 'biased' about taxation on fuel in Europe.

---
However the primary target was the Government's fuel tax policy. The British figure of three-quarters of the cost of petrol being tax (in the form of fuel duty or value added tax) is somewhat higher than the European average, and dramatically higher than other developed countries such as the United States and Australia.
---

http://www.answers.com/topic/uk-fuel-protest

It is (or was) a long-standing policy of the UK government to levy tax on fuel in order to reduce consumption. This policy took the form of the 'fuel tax escalator', the idea being that prices would always rise above the rate of inflation, with the increase in tax being re-set regularly to ensure a viable, indeed growing, disincentive. Since the protests of 2000 the escalator has become defunct with its proposed increases being repeatedly deferred.

This is why fuel prices are high in Europe - tax - and not the right wing talking points you were reporting such as lack of reserves, refineries etc. Of course prices have started to rise here and are 25% higher than they were five years ago but a) they would have been much higher if the escalator was still running, and b) the relative weakness of the dollar has insulated European economies against the inflationary pressures of the oil price rises, since the value of the dollar has plummeted in the same time frame.

[sui generis]

24. "right wing talking points"

I find that phrase offensive, intentionally or otherwise and you otherwise don't deserve a response with your myopic analysis of the U.K.'s policies. Your "socialist talking points" are nonsensical and not informed. (doesn't roll off the tongue with much more credibility no matter what ideology you put in front of "talking points) . . .

Europe is larger than merely the U.K., by the way, in case that eludes you.

And my "right wing talking points" are reality - whether or not there is a direct physical correlation between refinery constraint and pricing is irrelevant - in the absence of regulation on pricing taking refineries in the U.S. out of production is USED to justify raising prices. Subtle, I know, but fact nonetheless.

I will step off my huff for a moment if you indeed didn't mean to offend. Do NOT associate me with the right wing OR talking points. I have more than adequate capacity to think for myself.

[julianer]

26. I am not implying that you are right wing

If you are saying that the shortage of refineries etc is not the right wing's excuse for higher prices in Europe, then I apologies for being a fool. If they are what you hold to be true then you are simply wrong.

I actually live in the UK and follow politics here, in Europe and, to a much lesser extent, the US. I know something of which I talk, even if I'm not an expert.

The reason Europe's fuel prices are higher is because of tax, and the tax is high because since the early 90's (I think) until 2000 the fuel price escalator was operating. This was introduced as a response to fears about environmental damage caused by cars and it continued until a large rebellion lead by truckers caused the escalator to be stopped, but left in place what had already been 'escalated'. I did give you a link with some potted history about all this.

Similar policies have been operational in Europe for decades. Fuel has always been more highly taxed in Europe for a variety of reasons.

If I am wrong then present some evidence. I am not interested in a fight with you and only usually comment on these boards when I feel I have information to impart.

[sui generis]

27. I don't want a fight either but we do disagree

I addressed a great number of factors on global and domestic pricing, the result of which we see here in the U.S. Merely contending that I am wrong and only addressing one of those factors (that we incidentally agreed on up front) isn't a productive conversation. I apologize for being a bit high handed - I took your comment wrong.

That's all right - I don't believe a fight is in order either :), but I believe the conversation on your end has focused to the U.K.'s energy policies and you and I are talking about apples and oranges at this point since I am talking about U.S. energy policy.

It's not "right" or "wrong" that is the case here - you stated it best when you said that fuel has been more highly taxed for a variety of reasons. Focusing on one reason exclusively is not entirely accurate.

Glad to see you posting here though - and a belated welcome (even if I seemed a bit unfriendly).

[ladjf]

13. .12 cents per gallon in Venezuela.

[etherealtruth]

5. Unfortunately there is truth to that ...

Gas prices AT THE PUMP have been artificially low in the USA for quite some time. We have paid by maintaining a large military presence in the Persian Gulf.

The problem in comparing us to Europe is that our gas prices have increased dramatically in a short period of time ... wages and infrastructure (public transit) have not kept pace ... so the middle income and "working" families have been, and are likely to continue, to be negatively (dramatically) impacted.

Instead of giving large (immoral) tax breaks to energy producing corporations, breaks should be given to lower wage earners to prevent the financial devastation of many American families.

[buzzard]

25. We Canadians pay over 4.00 a gallon.eom

[mpendragon]

6. shortage?

That's something I have been wondering about for some time. I keep hearing shortage and not enough refineries but that doesn't seem right.

1. crude not refined oil is edging up on $70/barrel
2. Oil companies are making record profits
3. No lines for gas pumps that still have gas

I think the refinery issue is a way to blame environmentalists for this mess and while it might be hard to get enough crude for US + Canada + Europe + India + China + the rest of the world market I don't think refineries or real shortages are the reason for high fuel prices.

[Journeyman]

7. Well, gas lines in America are very dangerous places to be. . .

so I'm glad we're not at that point yet.

Last gas line I was in, the cars were all spread down one street waiting to get into the corner gas station. The cars waited at the driveway until the car at the pump left the station. I'd been there about an hour and was three or four cars from the drive. Suddenly, a Cadillac cut diagonally across intersect, barrelled in front of the line, and took a newly vacant spot at the pump.

The next guy in line, who'd just started to move into the station, yelled at the boatman: "Hey, there's a line here. Get to the end and wait your turn."

The Cadillac creep ignored him, opened his gas door and removed his cap. He then noticed he had to pay inside before dispensing. Without a glance at the highly-irate line, he walked into the station's office to pay.

The guy at the front of the line, who'd waited so long and now been displaced, looked at the Cadillac for a moment then calmly opened his own gas cap door, removed his locking cap, marched across the station lot and slammed his cap onto the Cadillac's open gas pipe. He then walked back to his and wisely drove away.

Moments later, after much yelling and quite a dance around the station, the Cadillac driver left, too. Without his gas but with two gas caps.

[liberalpress]

8. I posted this on earlier thread but it is still relevant...

Top Ten Republican Reasons You Should Stop Whining About the Price of Gas...


#10 Why do you hate America?

#9 High gas prices are a direct result of Clinton getting blown in the Oval Office

#8 Demand increased by need for fuel to keep Dick Cheney's heart pump running.

#7 Why do you hate America?

#6 Can pay more for gas because of low wages paid ti illegal lawn maintenance personnel

#5 The average person spends more on an elite military school for the bratty sons every year than they do on gas for their Hummer..

#4 And speaking of hummers see #9!

#3 Why do you hate America.

#2 Liberals wasting gallons of gas trying to drive around Michael Moore's big, fat ass! Ha-Ha!

And the number one reason you should stop complaining about the price of gas.... why do you hate America?

[ThomWV]

9. If Refinerys Are Down Demand Is Down

All crude is refined. It is the refinerys that provide the demand for crude. When a refinery goes down it may raise the price of gasoline, if there is a shortage, but it will lower the price of crude because of reduced demand.

Now, here's a problem. If we listen to the earlier 'reasons' for high prices you come up with the repeated chant of increased Chineese demand. However if you go back and look at actual sales for the first quarter of the year you quickly notice that the anticipated Chineese demand never showed up in person to buy oil. That's right folks, the actual sales did not increase - the demand that caused prices to get where they are today was never there in the first place.

[julianer]

20. Have you got any links for that?

[sui generis]

22. cart, horse

market speculation, artificially constrained capacity, and lack of pricing regulation directly impact prices at the pump.

If demand remains relatively constant, prices that are increased as a result of speculation don't HAVE to follow the market and come down in the absence of regulatory drivers unless there is a sudden glut.

[Newsjock]

10. Funny how the message all comes down at once

Local TV news here did a very similar piece last night: "Milk is $2.99/gallon, too, so why aren't you mad about that?"

Looks like the talking points came out. And, funny, sitting here inside the corporate media beast, I've seen nothing of the sort. But it sure looks like it's happening, doesn't it.

[ladjf]

12. Gas is 12 cents a gallon in Venezuela. Not bad either.

[Double T]

15. I always feel 'lucky' while I'm being screwed by the energy companies....

they get a huge tax break by congress, then turn around run up the oil and energy markets. How fortunate can we ALL be???

[Imagevision]

16. Like I really care what other countries pay for gas - we're the super

power - those rules don't apply here and the only reason gas is high is because first and foremost Bush & Cheney are... O_i_l_M-E_N!!!

[soothsayer]

17. Why should there be lines? There's no shortage. Rape of the

consumer, pure and simple, to deliver record profits to the bfee.

[lectrobyte]

18. To be honest, in the 1980's, it felt like much more of a bite.

And no doubt compared to a lot of the world, we are lucky. But I still think the oil companies are making way too much money. And in this time of war, isn't that War Profiteering? Didn't they used to put people in jail for that?

[deadparrot]

28. You're virtually getting the money back in Europe, though,

seeing how the additional tax pays for insurance, education, etc.