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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 07:43 PM
Original message
Best "The Clenis did it" post of the day
"Ah, integrity...And how is that defined now? No retaliation against terrorist attacks on US soil (the first WTC bombing, the USS Cole, shall I continue?), lying to the American public, cheating on your spouse over and over and over, taking items and destroying property on your way OUT of the White House? Oh, but wait, the economy was great, gas prices were low, and we weren't at war. Ah, now I see what integrity is. It is the ease in which we live, placating terrorists, vowing retaliation with tears in your eyes, but not actually DOING anything, and really, really large SUV's that are only affordable if we look the other way when Americans are murdered. My, my, yes, let's indict Bush and his cronies for taking a stand against terrorists, and, goodness, staying FAITHFUL to one wife. Well, that is just so boring. Can't get any good jokes out of that. Do you know how many high school kids agree with our former president and are preserving their virginity by not having "sex". (They are active, but it depends on what "is" is.)"

http://www.christianforums.com/t1987883-bush-administration-indicted-if-its-true-finally.html&page=4#post17792718
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. I like your response over there.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yeah, why get mired down in the muck. Just cut right to the real point,
I say.

Of course, I am sure my response will get her right PO'd, as she doesn't believe he lied.. therefore.. he didn't
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AussieDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Are you going to continue the discussion with her
until she calls you a hate-filled bile-spewing librul who hates Amerikkka ??
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. She can call me what she wants. Doesn't make ** any less of a liar.
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deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. LMAO...they want to know "what lie?"
:rofl:
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I gave her the 16 little words
"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."
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deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. She hasn't answered yet...
:popcorn:
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I said it was in the SOTU, but she didn't see it.. so if it
Edited on Thu Aug-18-05 08:18 PM by GreenPartyVoter
wasn't there then when did he say the 16 words?

She gave me a link to the WH transcript of it... is this another case of editing?

No wait... another poster caught it. She went to a 2004 speech.
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deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Noticed that, too.
:eyes:

Jaysus.
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Idiot she is:
"Cite your source please. You could have randomly made that up for all I know."
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opiate69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. She responded by posting the wrong SOTU Adress...
I'm trying to find the right one now...
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deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. here's a link...
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opiate69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Right on..thanks.. ..
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opiate69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Found something in there that should come back to haunt him...
Edited on Thu Aug-18-05 08:36 PM by opiate69
Provided they ever release the rest of the Abu Ghraib photos..

"Iraqi refugees tell us how forced confessions are obtained: by torturing children while their parents are made to watch. "
SOTU Adress, Jan 29, 2003
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laststeamtrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. WOWWY WOW WOW. So many things wrong. Where to begin?
Nah just skip it. Where has their critical intelligence gone?
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. also remind her that those responsible for the first WTC bombing
were found, convicted and are in jail.

where is OBL?
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
11. This post from earlier today would be awesome to post on that site
Edited on Thu Aug-18-05 08:24 PM by Whoa_Nelly
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4390616
(Thanks to RedEarth for posting this today!)

Dr. Robin Meyers.......

As some of you know, I am minister of Mayflower Congregational Church in Oklahoma City, an Open and Affirming, Peace and Justice church in northwest Oklahoma City, and professor of Rhetoric at Oklahoma City University. But you would most likely have encountered me on the pages of the Oklahoma Gazette, where I have been a columnist for six years, and hold the record for the most number of angry letters to the editor.

Tonight, I join ranks of those who are angry, because I have watched as the faith I love has been taken over by fundamentalists who claim to speak for Jesus, but whose actions are anything but Christian.

We've heard a lot lately about so-called "moral values" as having swung the election to President Bush. Well, I'm a great believer in moral values, but we need to have a discussion, all over this country, about exactly what constitutes a moral value -- I mean what are we talking about? Because we don't get to
make them up as we go along, especially not if we are people of faith. We have an inherited tradition of what is right and wrong, and moral is as moral does.

Let me give you just a few of the reasons why I take issue with those in power who claim moral values are on their side:

1. When you start a war on false pretenses, and then act as if your deceptions are justified because you are doing God's will, and that your critics are either unpatriotic or lacking in faith, there are some of us who have given our lives to teaching and preaching the faith who believe that this is not only not
moral, but immoral.


2. When you live in a country that has established international rules for waging a just war, build the United Nations on your own soil to enforce them, and then arrogantly break the very rules you set down for the rest of the world, you are doing something immoral.


3. When you claim that Jesus is the Lord of your life, and yet fail to acknowledge that your policies ignore his essential teaching, or turn them on their head (you know, Sermon on the Mount stuff like that we must never return violence for violence and that those who live by the sword will die by the sword), you are doing something immoral.


4. When you act as if the lives of Iraqi civilians are not as important as the lives of American soldiers, and refuse to even count them, you are doing something immoral.


5. When you find a way to avoid combat in Vietnam, and then question the patriotism of someone who volunteered to fight, and came home a hero, you are doing something immoral.


6. When you ignore the fundamental teachings of the gospel, which says that the way the strong treat the weak is the ultimate ethical test, by giving tax breaks to the wealthiest among us so the strong will get stronger and the weak will get weaker, you are doing something immoral.


7. When you wink at the torture of prisoners, and deprive so-called "enemy combatants" of the rules of the Geneva convention, which your own country helped to establish and insists that other countries follow, you are doing something immoral.


8. When you claim that the world can be divided up into the good guys and the evil doers, slice up your own nation into those who are with you, or with the terrorists -- and then launch a war which enriches your own friends and seizes control of the oil to which we are addicted, instead of helping us to
kick the habit, you are doing something immoral.


9. When you fail to veto a single spending bill, but ask us to pay for a war with no exit strategy and no end in sight, creating an enormous deficit that hangs like a great millstone around the necks of our children, you are doing something immoral.


10. When you cause most of the rest of the world to hate a country that was once the most loved country in the world, and act like it doesn't matter what others think of us, only what God thinks of you, you have done something immoral.


11. When you use hatred of homosexuals as a wedge issue to turn out record numbers of evangelical voters, and use the Constitution as a tool of discrimination, you are doing something immoral.


12. When you favor the death penalty, and yet claim to be a follower of Jesus, who said an eye for an eye was the old way, not the way of the kingdom, you are doing something immoral.


13. When you dismantle countless environmental laws designed to protect the earth which is God's gift to us all, so that the corporations that bought you and paid for your favors will make higher profits while our children breathe dirty air and live in a toxic world, you have done something immoral. The earth
belongs to the Lord, not Halliburton.


14. When you claim that our God is bigger than their God, and that our killing is righteous, while theirs is evil, we have begun to resemble the enemy we claim to be fighting, and that is immoral. We have met the enemy, and the enemy is us.


15. When you tell people that you intend to run and govern as a "compassionate conservative," using the word which is the essence of all religious faith-compassion, and then show no compassion for anyone who disagrees with you, and no patience with those who cry to you for help, you are doing something immoral.


16. When you talk about Jesus constantly, who was a healer of the sick, but do nothing to make sure that anyone who is sick can go to see a doctor, even if she doesn't have a penny in her pocket, you are doing something immoral.


17. When you put judges on the bench who are racist, and will set women back a hundred years, and when you surround yourself with preachers who say gays ought to be killed, you are doing something immoral.

I'm tired of people thinking that because I'm a Christian, I must be a supporter of President Bush, or that because I favor civil rights and gay rights I must not be a person of faith. I'm tired of people saying that I can't support the troops but oppose the war.

I heard that when I was your age--when the Vietnam war was raging. We knew that war was wrong, and you know that this war is wrong--the only question is how many people are going to die before these make-believe Christians are removed from power?

This country is bankrupt. The war is morally bankrupt. The claim of this administration to be Christian is bankrupt. And the only people who can turn things around are people like you--young people who are just beginning to wake up to what is happening to them. It's your country to take back. It's your faith to take back.

It's your future to take back.

Don't be afraid to speak out. Don't back down when your friends begin to tell you that the cause is righteous and that the flag should be wrapped around the cross, while the rest of us keep our mouths shut. Real Christians take chances for peace. So do real Jews, and real Muslims, and real Hindus, and real
Buddhists--so do all the faith traditions of the world at their heart believe one thing: life is precious.

Every human being is precious. Arrogance is the opposite of faith. Greed is the opposite of charity. And believing that one has never made a mistake is the mark of a deluded man, not a man of faith.

And war -- war is the greatest failure of the human race -- and thus the greatest failure of faith. There's an old rock and roll song, whose lyrics say it all: War, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing.

And what is the dream of the prophets? That we should study war no more, that we should beat our swords into plowshares and our spears into pruning hooks. Who would Jesus bomb, indeed? How many wars does it take to know that too many people have died?

What if they gave a war and nobody came? Maybe one day we will find out.

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AussieDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
17. I'll check in from time to time to see how you're going
- when she finds she has no answer to your arguments any longer, she'll just drop out of sight.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. I dunno. They tend to keep tossing in things that have nothing to do
with the original debate.
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deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
18. Ooh, boy, she's ignoring you both, now that she's been proven wrong.
:)
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. She came back with the abortion argument.
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opiate69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. SHe's pulling the typical Repug/Fundie distraction move..
Keep her on topic... she asks how this one little lie compares to Clinton's "lie"...she also though mentions the chemical weapons, etc.. well, we all know now that those were also lies.. hammer her...
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deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. I wonder if she's ever considered the possibility that a pregnant Iraqi
woman was killed, or happened to miscarry, due to a military strike.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. I dunno but I hope to God Bill and Monica never had an abortion.
We'd never hear the end of that!
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deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. God forbid, if there *had* been a child...
what a sad life. You thought the smearing of Chelsea Clinton was bad.
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deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
21. She's still trying to say Clinton's "sin" is worse.
I'm really thinking you can't argue with these people. If they believe someone lying about a blow job is worse than someone lying about a war that has killed tens of thousands of people (children, American soldiers, civilians included), you just kind of have to shake your head.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Even if the grand jury shows ** to be a liar, people like her will
say that it was rigged, a smear job, whatever.. just because it goes against their guy. (Who, in their mind, is the same as them. They are good people, therefore the president they voted for must be a good person too.)
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SalmonChantedEvening Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
26. That whole penis in the shower idea didn't pan out for these folk.
*shudder*

I count a minumum of 3 Commandments being broken in that post alone.

Lying, false witness and having Bush as a god before Him.

(Note to lurking CK's: All the perpetrators of the 1st WTC attack are STILL in jail. Sorry it doesn't fit your narrative... but it IS true.)
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deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
28. I wish this chick would stop quoting Clinton as if his was the opinion
Edited on Thu Aug-18-05 09:01 PM by deadparrot
of every liberal.

I'm not like them. I am not a mindless Clinton-zombie. I don't parrot Clinton as if his word is the end-all, be-all, though I can understand where they come form, seeing as they do it with Bush every day.

*I* never supported this war, when it was "easy" or otherwise. Many on the left didn't.

And then she talks about the "killing of innocent children."

*smacks head*

What the hell does she think we're doing in Iraq? Does she really think those civilian deaths are strictly insurgents?

Plus, abortions have gone UP under Bush.

Whoo, sorry, going off there on a conversation that wasn't my own...but I tend to get caught up in these things. :)
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #28
46. Yeah.. I get that a lot. I also get accused of siding with Clinton because
I am a Dem (Seriously, do people never read my username? There's no EX there.)

Interestingly, she said she voted for Clinton twice. My guess is she drank the kool-aid after 9/11 like so many other soccer moms did.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
30. Oh, another one has joined in. Here we go
"Saying that Bush directly killed thousands of people is your rhetoric talking, this was a war waged within pefectly legal and constitutional boundaries. You might not like it, some of the evidence might be questionable, and you have your right to protest it. But impeachment is not even an option here and indictments are not going to fly."
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yankeedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
31. For so a so-called Christian
She doesn't understand the teachings of Christ. Bill Clinton asked for forgiveness for his lie against his wife. George W. Bush is not contrite. He continues to compound the lie. Right there she's clueless.

I respect your religious beliefs, but threads like this one just reinforce my belief that religion doesn't care about murder, not really, it just tries to stop people from having and enjoying sex. Slaughtering thousands doesn't even raise an eyebrow with a lot of these people, but a clumsy blowjob is an unforgivable affront.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Her religion and mine share nothing but a name. Have you seen her
latest post?

"Ten's of thousands??? I thought it was more like in the millions, or was that just more propaganda from the Dems and Independents who are fighting with each other to see who will get the props in 2008.

Can you please cite the source of your statistical data for this greatest casualty loss in the world's history?"
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yankeedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. She's a clueless Bushbot
It's probably safe to say she hasn't contributed to our war effort, either.

Maybe ask her how many times * has gone to church since his inauguration? Hint- you won't need to take your shoes off to count the times.
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deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
33. here's your "tens of thousands" figure:
Edited on Thu Aug-18-05 09:18 PM by deadparrot
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/02/AR2005060201098.html

Iraq Puts Civilian Toll at 12,000
Insurgency Claiming About 20 People a Day

12,000 in the last 18 months as of June 2005, which doesn't even count the deaths from the beginning of the invasion until the beginning of 2004.

ETA: There are articles claiming as high as 100,000 civilian casualties that I could find for you, but I'm pretty sure they've been debunked. Most sites have the dead in the 20,000-30,000 range, but they're from places like iraqbodycount, which I'm pretty sure wouldn't fly with these people, no matter how much truth there is to it.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Thanks.. I added it.. told her the lower numbers might
make her feel better
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yankeedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Yea, but they're not cute little babies
They aren't cute little (white) American babies so it doesn't matter. Their fault anyway, they weren't born in God's country.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Seems that way
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deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
38. She's wrong in insisting that the military counts civilian deaths (proof):
Edited on Thu Aug-18-05 09:36 PM by deadparrot
"The U.S. military does not compile its own count of civilian deaths, as Pentagon spokesman Lt. Col. Jim Cassella explained to AP: "Our efforts focus on destroying the enemy's capabilities, so we never target civilians and have no reason to try to count such unintended deaths.""

http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1920081

And that 12,000 civilians figure was from this June, according to Interior Minister Bayan Jabr, who the Iraqi people apparently installed themselves. The 12,000, it should be noted, is from INSURGENT violence alone, not from military strikes. Insurgents that have exploded onto the scene since we've been there.

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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Thanks!
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deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. No prob!
:)

I really do enjoy this kind of thing, though I do let it get to me more than it should.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Well, I sure appreciate the help. I can google stuff with the best of
them, but it's always good to have another DUer or 20 to tackle RW arguments. They throw so much garbage and convoluted logic at you, it's very hard to disentangle it all in a short length of time.
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deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. I always find it so satisfying...
when you find that one quote that debunks their argument perfectly.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Yep. *g*
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deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Actually, I was looking at your post on the christianforums...
with the link to the civilian deaths, and I noticed it was broken. I think there's a -"tary" at the end that got plugged on by mistake.

Just in case she tries to raise a fuss, and she's too lazy to Google. :)
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Thanks. I had a twitchy cut n paste moment.. Stuck one copy
inside of another.. inside the word military, actually.

Dang.. geting late for me. Makin' a lot of mistakes like that.

:P
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Dave Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
47. The woman you are discussing that with
is swimming in a big big fucking pool of Kool-Aid.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-05 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Ayuh. I said above I suspect her of diving in after 9/11, when so many
other soccer moms did. (But then, I don't really know her. Maybe she isn't one.)
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