The Pope has gone from preaching to meddling.

[Pepperbelly]

And there is indeed a difference.

Ratzo's been sitting atop the Big Pyramid for a few months now and I have been a little curious about what he's up to. Something creepy in his eyes and I am truly sorry if that offends you but I don't like the look or feel of the dude.

So what is his priority?

A return to Christendom.

He believes in a Church pre-eminence in the state. I heard an NPR piece today on his war against moral relativism. I say, it's all good. :D

This link covers some of these points. Feel free to add any of which you might be aware.

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/news_syndication/article_050816pontiff.shtml

[Skip Intro]

1. What happened to him asking bush to give him some "immunity" title?

I only saw it here at DU, and only in one thread, but the link was from a WH press conference (with some spokesman) and the question was asked, and the wh spokesman replied that this he couldn't comment because the news was just breaking.

Supposedly this was to immune the current pope from child abuse/molestation charges from some lawsuit.

That was a couple days ago.

I've missed any updates.

[Pepperbelly]

2. whoa!

I had not heard that.

Did I sound like Reeves in Bill and Ted's?

[Skip Intro]

3. oh yeah, I'll try to find the link

[Skip Intro]

5. here's a link about it -

There is a whitehouse.gov link, still looking, but here's a link that references the charge and the request that the pope be exempt from any accountability....

posted by truthpusher

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1709300

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/17/world/main783...

Pope Sued, Accused Of Sex Coverup
---------------
ROME, August 17, 2005
---------------
(AP) A lawyer who's suing Pope Benedict for allegedly covering up the sexual abuse of children by a seminarian says he'll challenge U.S. diplomatic recognition of the Vatican if the pope is given immunity as a head of state.

In the Texas civil lawsuit, Joseph Ratzinger -- now Pope Benedict -- is accused of conspiring with the Archdiocese of Galveston-Houston to cover up the abuse of three boys during the mid-1990s.

Attorney Daniel Shea, who's representing one of three boys suing the pope, told reporters in Rome that President Bush should ignore a Vatican request to confirm Benedict's immunity.

Otherwise, Shea says he'll challenge the constitutionality of U.S. recognition of the Vatican as a sovereign state, although similar court challenges have failed in the past.

------------------

on edit, a couple more:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1706647

http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/international/news/200508...

Lawyers for pope seek immunity in Texas sex abuse lawsuit naming Ratzinger as defendant

VATICAN CITY -- Lawyers for Pope Benedict XVI have asked U.S. President George W. Bush to declare the pontiff immune from liability in a lawsuit that accuses him of conspiring to cover up the molestation of three boys by a seminarian in Texas, court records show.

The Vatican's embassy in Washington sent a diplomatic memo to the State Department on May 20 requesting the U.S. government grant the pope immunity because he is a head of state, according to a May 26 motion submitted by the pope's lawyers in U.S. District Court for the Southern Division of Texas in Houston.

Joseph Ratzinger is named as a defendant in the civil lawsuit. Now Benedict XVI, he's accused of conspiring with the Archdiocese of Galveston-Houston to cover up the abuse during the mid-1990s. The suit is seeking unspecified monetary damages.

In Washington, U.S. State Department spokeswoman Gerry Keener, said Tuesday that the pope already is considered a head of state and automatically has diplomatic immunity. Keener said Benedict doesn't have to ask for immunity and Bush doesn't have to grant it.




http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4389341

donsu

smirk's man Pope Ratty being sued for covering up sex crimes

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apeurope_story.a...


Lawyer set to challenge Vatican status

The lawyer who is suing Pope Benedict XVI in Texas for allegedly covering up the sexual abuse of children by a seminarian said Wednesday he would challenge the U.S. diplomatic recognition of the Vatican if the pope is given immunity in the case.

The pope's lawyers have already asked President Bush to certify Benedict's immunity from liability in the civil lawsuit since he is a head of state - the Vatican city-state.

-snip-

But if Bush grants the immunity, Shea said he would challenge the constitutionality of the U.S. diplomatic recognition of the Holy See as a sovereign state on First Amendment grounds.

"The Holy See is a church," Shea said.

Joseph Ratzinger - Benedict's former name - is named as a defendant in the civil lawsuit, accused of conspiring with the Archdiocese of Galveston-Houston to cover up the abuse of three boys during the mid-1990s. The suit is seeking unspecified monetary damages.
-snip-
-------------------------------------


And a WH offical was asked about this, at least once, and responded, basically, "too early to say."

Having trouble finding that link, but the situation appears so.

This pope seems to seek an escape from justice - any doubt bush will comply?

[Pepperbelly]

6. now THAT, too, is very interesting.

Of course, he is 78 y.o. so who knows how long he will last.

[murielm99]

7. If the pope is the head of a state, he has no business meddling

in our politics. And you know he does.

[MetaTrope]

17. Anything to help brother Neil's business partner!

http://www.envirosagainstwar.org/know/read.php?itemid=2673

[Karenina]

4. He arrived in town today.

It has been a circus! Ten gazillion teenies swarming the streets with hanging tags and logoed backpacks and flags. Figure an extra half hour to get where you need to go. Nuns and friars hanging out at the train stops... Rock bands at every church... WIR SIND PAPST!

[nankerphelge]

8. he's 100% creepy.

[Cronus Protagonist]

16. I have a pic of him while he was campaigning

[Cleita]

9. I'm just happy, he's there and not here.

We have our own creepy demagogue to deal with here.

[Sperk]

10. Opus Dei is taking over the Catholic church.....so glad I left many

years ago. No offense to you Catholics out there...many of my friends and family members are still in the church but you really should be aware of what's happening. I went to church for twenty plus years and NEVER heard even the slightest attempt to persuade anyone who to vote for. It's almost as if every major organization whether it be religious, political, media or corporate are all being taken over by extremists and
control freaks.

I plan on going back to church before the 2008 Presidential election just so I can stand up and walk out if they try to tell the sheep who to vote for. I had more than one friend tell me that happened during the 2004 election. Most were very upset, a few people walked out. I wish the whole church did.

Wait until the Di-vinci Codes comes out...they'll be all over the t.v. trashing it, they'll probably say it's because the story has Jesus and Mary having a child or children but it's really about how the book portrays Opus Dei (as the fundamentalist crazies that they are).

[spuddonna]

12. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean...

Our parish priests, when I was a child, were liberals, and so were the ones my mom grew up with...

They never, ever told us how to vote. They would say, "War is wrong, let us pray for peace." I had several cool priests who were Jesuits... they were like modern day St. Francis of Assisi types... total anti-war, peaceniks. :)

Anyway, I stopped participating in the Catholic church about 5 years ago. It was the week my priest went off on a rant about 'how little our parish had raised' for some diocese drive. He was livid! After communion, he kept looking at his watch, and then split right after we sang the closing hymn. I was shocked at the 'talking to' we'd gotten, but tried to justify it by mentally making excuses for him.

Two days later, we found out from the local paper that he was stealing money from the church to support a massive gambling habit (over $250,000). By the end of the week, we heard that one of the retired pastors from our previous church (we move a lot) was dragged into court on sexual abuse charges...

That was it for me! Oh well, hope Purgatory has coffee... :) (I hear Hell doesn't...)

[Rich Hunt]

14. Actually

Opus Dei just a reflection of what's going on in the US and Europe.

Wake up, America. This is a distraction from the real meddlers.
Either people don't know that, or they are intentionally disguising it.
As for the Pope, I read the actual article, and didn't see where he
advocated a political takeover of an essentially Protestant (if
unacknowledged) country. It was a theological statement.
I don't understand why non-Catholics are taking such an
obsessive interest in another church's theology. That distraction
serves a greater political purpose, in my opinion: to distract
from the real evils right here at home.

One thing I took away from the church was conscience over ego.

As someone with Catholic roots, my conscience will not allow me
to remain silent that I am currently terrified to live in such a hateful
climate. I don't have a choice anymore. It appears that we are
returning to the 'Know Nothing' days.

[SoCalDem]

11. The Papcy has ALWAYS been 90% politics, 10% religion

:(

[SouthernDem2004]

13. How do these views differ from any other Popes?

[shadowknows69]

15. somebody wanna remind the pope

that he already has his christendom. its called vatican city your eminence. keep your nose out of our shit. appy polly loggies to our DU catholics but one round of the burning times was enough for this planet. dark ages sucked too.

[Rich Hunt]

18. excuse me

But in the United States the history is one of oppression and hatred toward Catholics.

I see that returning. I feel the hatred on this board. The unwillingness to listen. The deliberate ignnoring. The hate level reminds me of the Reagan era. Don't even get me started on how bad the eighties were. Catholics are a scapegoat. This is corporate police state propaganda. There is nothing democratic about it.

You don't believe me? I'm Irish. I know all about that. They've been hunting, slandering and blacklisting my family for decades. And my family were ALL Democrats. Also, the progressive church I grew up in was purposely wrecked by Protestant meddlers - slanderers, really. But you won't read about that in the paper.

It's a distraction - either unintentionally or intentionally - from the fact that we are moving toward a corporate police state, and one that is openly hostile to Catholics for economic reasons.

You won't see it if you're not Catholic.

As for me, I'm a virtual prisoner............I know longer care if you call me crazy.

My party has betrayed me. I thought progressivism had nothing to do with hate and irrational fear of others.

[Pepperbelly]

22. I disagree with you on that ...

my problem is the Catholic Church USA's attempt at interference in civil eletions in America. I have the same problem with the protestants but my reason for pointing to the Catholics is that this is different. The Catholic Church, to my knowledge, hadn't tried to interfere in politics in quite this same way.

The Catholic Church seems to be steadfastly opposed to my political party. I think that they can fuck themselves, just like that troll Falwell.

[shadowknows69]

23. Forgive me if I don't weep

for the poor persecuted Catholic Church. I admit in this matter I hardly exhibit liberal ideals at times but I can't seem to forget that the Catholics have a pretty big butcher's bill throughout history and a history of covering it up. The threat of excommunication is also the most arrogant, blasphemous piece of Dogma ever written by man.

[Rich Hunt]

25. oh yeah

I've heard that one before. It's not an excuse for cravenly slandering, stalking and blacklisting liberal Catholic families so that you don't have to answer to their economic values.

The Catholic church may look like the bad guys, but the real bad guys have the money and the social capital to hide, and they do.

[Pepperbelly]

30. a huge butcher's bill ...

and I still wonder what Ratzo is up to. I just don't trust him. Perhaps I am paranoid or perhaps, I'm not paranoid enough. That, too, is a possibility.

[Rich Hunt]

24. you're wrong

There are people within the Democratic party who would like to blacklist and get rid of Catholics. They hide. The truth is that they feel threatened by a primarily working-class religion, and they dislike Catholic stances on economics.

In fact, this has been going on for years. Some of them conducted an outrageous blacklisting and slandering campaign against my family...who were Catholics AND active Democrats. They effectively forced them out of the party.

[shadowknows69]

27. I have nothing against catholics

only the hirearchy that controls them and in my opinion has led them far from jesus' teachings.

[Pepperbelly]

29. I have nothing against Catholics but much against the Church and ...

no, I do not need Ratzo lugging himself up to excomminicate Democratic pols because he doesn't like their stands on choice. Fuck the old bastard.

I don't want ANY religious catdaddy running SHIT in the government.

[Nobody]

19. Women and excommunication

Have you noticed that any time excommunication is mentioned, it's always got women at the core of it?

I'm talking of the 20th century and later.

There were some women who were ordained deacons and priests last month in Canada and Ratzinger was up in arms, yapping about excommunication.

We all know about Kerry being threatened with excommunication because he believes in upholding Row v Wade.

About women priests: Whatever your views on that subject, it is a fact that women used to be allowed to become priests and bishops in Ireland in the 600s. This is not a godly law, it's a bit of dogma based on central casting. (at least that's the only argument I've ever heard from official channels)

About Roe v Wade: This is about meddling in politics. Note that never once did either pope threaten Catholic legislators with excommunication if they voted for the war in Iraq.

I also do not recall the word excommunication being tossed around when the story about child molestation was breaking. Not once.

Please set me straight if I am wrong and someone WAS excommunicated for misusing priestly authority by molesting children. Or anything that wasn't specific to women.

I would so like to be wrong on this.

(edited for clarity and to correct those %@^&#&* typos)

[Rich Hunt]

20. excommunication

Excommunication is an expression of what is going on in the larger society.

It means that people will not speak to you because of the things you said. It means you are going to be blacklisted. That is why people get excommunicated - it is an expression of what is already there. I understand now what excommuncation means. It means you will be cut off from your family because you dared to speak freely. Apparently, speaking freely just isn't done in America if you come from the wrong family.

As for abortion, I favor abortion rights, but I believe what drives Catholics is the hypocrisy. Catholic women - especially Irish Catholic women - can not even dream of such freedom right now, because of blacklisting and constant monitoring, and yet this issue goes unacknowledged.

[Nobody]

28. At least excommunication is mostly symbolic these days

Back in the old days excommunication was a larger threat. Today, there are enough friends and co-workers who are not Christian, let alone not Catholic, and don't give a rat's ass about whether or not you've been blacklisted and why.

Interestingly enough most of my Catholic family are pro-contraceptives and pro-choice, even the Republicans. They are also OK with remarrying after divorce, since several have done such.

I'd like to know.....

Where is the call for excommunication of those Catholics who support and urge war? Where is the call for excommunication for the child molestors? Where is the call for excommunication for those Catholic governors who don't stop executions and who vote in favor of the death penalty?

Sadly, there isn't any. I was hoping to be roundly criticized for forgetting about someone who DID get excommunicated for any of these reasons. But no, it all boils down to women.

[Skidmore]

21. Isn't this the same pope who just requested a pardon or

some such indulgence from our very own Patriotism Pope, GWB, because he's been named in some criminal case somewhere? Correct me if I'm wrong. I have a real problems with organized religion of any stripe.

26. pope

He has an expressive face, though it does look something like he is already accusing you of something in his mind, and thinking about how to deal with it, while putting a little smile over it. Silent calculation.