Frank Rich up on Imus. nt

[babylonsister]

[H2O Man]

1. Yep.

They are saying everyone knows the war is "over."

[rodeodance]

2. saying you cannot fight a war without allies, the support of the country &

"frankly, without an army" yup.

[rodeodance]

3. says someone at the top of the administration, presumably the President

needs to tell us what is going on. and ger out--or convince the people to stay the course (and make plans to actually do win or do something positive).

[rodeodance]

4. saying people saying Rummy needs to be fired -Biden, others, O'Lielly

saying that today. uga uga--

[rodeodance]

5. saying you can not kill them all--we do not have enough troops in the

country to do this. but some say we can if we increase the number of troops.

[rodeodance]

7. Imus saying no one is saying We have to win their hearts and minds-no

one is saying this any longer.

[H2O Man]

8. "Nothing we are doing

now is working."

"You don't hear any more of the talk about winning their hearts and mnds."

When the main stream/red neck population is thinking this way, the Bush policy is done.

[ChowChowChow]

6. Frank Rich is a flip flopper

The article he wrote Sunday was good. But most of the time when he appears on slImus he becomes weak and doesn't come right out and blast the administration and others. He should stick to writing and stop pretending to be a moderate Repug. This MSM is all the same .SLIMEY!

[babylonsister]

9. You're entitled to your opinion. I don't think he pretends

to be anything, and certainly not a repug of any stripe.

[ChowChowChow]

14. I like his column

BUT.....I do not like his appearances on slImus. They are inconsistent with his writings. Just my opinion. We need someone who will go on horrible MSM shows like slImus and tell the truth. Not praise McCain or talk about what he says, but to say what he did in the article.

[rodeodance]

21. I agree.

[AlCzervik]

28. I love his columns, i was so glad when his vacation was over.

[rodeodance]

10. Imus saying he does not see an end to this-except maybe cobble

together some sort of constitution, declare victory and get out. and the next administration -whoever it is will have to pick up the pieces.

[rodeodance]

11. Rich saying this is now about saving Rick Santorium and the ohters in

Congress.

[rodeodance]

13. Rich says we party on while war takes place in other places. Then Cindy

comes along and all of a sudden the war is in our face.

[rodeodance]

17. Rich saying the WH never stopped to think that one women could do

this. The bush administration has not anticipated much he says.

[ChowChowChow]

16. Now that is true

I had to turn it off.

[Hubert Flottz]

20. Somebody had to say it!

It's the Gospel, according to REALITY!

[H2O Man]

15. The show is not intended

to appeal to the democratic left. It is indeed intended to appeal to those "mainstream" Americans who do "flip flop" on this war: they know that it is wrong and that we can't win, but at the same time, their sense of patriotism creates confusion.

As this group of the population hears more and more focused messages with an anti-war theme, which also recognize that sense of patriotism, the administration loses its remaining support.

[ChowChowChow]

19. Great post

I agree. But if Rich appears to be a flip flopper, then it negates his great articles. That was the only point I was making.

[Hubert Flottz]

22. Nobody could be a bigger flip flopper than Imus!

Claimed all along he was a John Kerry supporter, and then slyly stabbed Kerry in the back every day on that silly show! Imus is a GOP/Rove tool just like Tweety. Oberman is the only unbiased voice Jack Welch's payroll.

[ChowChowChow]

23. Ditto!

[mtnsnake]

24. Are you sure Imus is the GOP/Rove tool you claim he is?

You make it sound like there's no in between. I'm no big fan of Imus, but the few times I've watched his show, he's pretty good at blasting either side. I don't agree with all he says, but I certainly don't disagree with all of it either. Some of what he says I like and some I don't. If there's anything I don't like about him it's the way he slobbers on those ice cubes or picks at the corners of his eyes while he talks.

As far as your claim that he's a flip-flopper on Kerry, well there's certainly a large number of people right around here who've done the same, and I can't say as I blame them.

[Hubert Flottz]

25. "You make it sound like there's no in between."

You're either with them or against them...

Imus trashed Kerry EVERY DAY on his show, BEFORE the election. If you watched him then, you had to have seen him doing it! Throwing the soft pitches in Bush's direction and then hitting Kerry over the head with the ball bat! The shit he said that was anti Bush was mild compared with his attacks on Kerry.

The GOP plays that old game all the time, in ALL THINGS... For example, Enron gave Al Gore $6,000.00 in campaign funds in 2000, but they gave Bush hundreds of thousands and even loaned Bush their private jet to use, to travel around the country campaigning. Then Enron claimed they supported both candidates.

I'm not telling you who you should like, or not like, that is entirely up to you the viewer.

[H2O Man]

26. Imus trashes everyone.

And of course it is not accurate to say he trashed Kerry every single day. It's simply not true.

Again, if Imus simply supported Kerry every day, his base would have turned the show off. The Imus show is not geared to reach the liberal democrats, much less the democratic left. If a person watches Imus hoping to see a program aimed to the democratic left, they are going to be as disappointed as someone who goes to McDonalds hoping to but a basket of Kentucky Fried chicken. That is not the product they are selling.

We might do well to even take note of how someone like David Gregory, when he is working as a reporter, will ask administration officials some pretty pointed questions. The democratic left can enjoy watching him for a week straight asking about Rove's lying when Dave is at a White House press conference.

But if Dave is the guest host of Hardball that same week, many on the democratic left will express surprise that he sits on the fence, and doesn't perform in the same way. Again, they are hoping for Kentucky Fried Chicken from McDonalds.

It's good to have an understanding of what shows like Imus are about. When we understand their target audience and their product, we can appreciate that they are not "anti-Kerry" or flip-floppers. Rather, they are speaking the language their audience understands.

[Hubert Flottz]

27. You are entitled to you opinion right or wrong.

Or at least you was before 2000.

I haven't eaten anything from McDonalds nor Kentucky Fried Chicken in years, because I value my health more than that. I don't watch Imus and his snickering buddies, because I value my sanity.

I don't forgive people who trash my country.

[H2O Man]

29. Obviously I am

entitled to my opinion. Other things are simply a matter of understanding simple facts. And other things are simply a matter of perception, in which case a person can say that Imus trashed Kerry every day, even though this is nonsense.

[Hubert Flottz]

30. I'll say then that Imas and the other people who are on his show

every day, took turns bashing Kerry "about" every day leading up to the election. I was not the only one to perceive the remarks made on Imas as being hurtful to the Kerry campaign. There were threads on DU quite often about that SHOW, in which DUers were upset by the content. During the run up to the election folks here in the real world turned Imas off because they were sickened by what they saw. My sister for one and she's as moderate as the come and married to a man who has just gone and changed his voter registration from GOP to dem in the last month.

You have said things that I disagree with in the past, but I've never hinted that you were a liar. I do not get into heated debates on here, because it is not good for me health wise to do so. Go look at the transcriptions and prove to me, that I didn't see what I saw, with my own eyes, and maybe then, I can believe you, enough to make me change my mind.

Too bad everyone is not as perceptive as yourself though.

[H2O Man]

32. I'm not calling

you "a liar." That's a good example of a distorted perception of something that someone says which was not in any way intended in the manner you view it.

[Hubert Flottz]

33. "It's simply not true"

Close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades, but that's pretty close to, "You're A Liar"... Or maybe I can't believe my eyes here either.

I Ain't mad at you H2O Man. We are after the same thing, but we are just on different roads in route to that end...I worry about the state of the Union to the point that I get thin skinned. I respect you and I salute your efforts here. In the future if you don't wish to see what I've written hit the button dude.

[newyawker99]

31. Hi ChowChowChow!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[babylonsister]

12. Rich just said he's writing about Cindy on Sunday! nt

[rodeodance]

18. now they are talking of Dick Gregory.