My conversation w/ a friend who has a son being deployed re:Cindy

[johnnie]

I have a friend that lives in Texas and has always been a big fan of the idiot. We have had many political conversations and it got to a point that we just don't say anything. Her parent's proudly display a picture taken of them and then Governor idiot in their office at their company and I have listen to many a ribbing's from them that were said in a jokingly, but were more mean spirited than they thought.
My friend's son is being deployed to Iraq in December and for some reason she is changing her tune. The other day she started in on georgie about him not even being a real Texan and he should just get his ass out of there and move back to where he came from. Then she went on with the "Why doesn't he send his fucking daughters to war?" I didn't say anything that day to her because I was shocked that she turned around so drastically. Granted, I am sure it is because georgie's politics have hit home and she is scared to death of watching her son go to war.
Now to my conversation last night. She told me that yesterday her son called form the base and after a bit of conversation she asked him what he and his buddies there thought of "that woman that is camped out at bush's ranch". He told her "Mom, that woman has every right to speak her mind as much as all of us do. She doesn't want us to go there as much as we don't want to go."
I guess my point here is that these people were die hard republicans and were sold to the WMD bullshit and that Iraq attacked America on 9-11. But here they are opening their eyes to what is really happening and it is just so strange to have this friend of mine actually agreeing with me now. I don't push it and I just let her talk. I know she is having a very hard time with all of this and it's not the right time for me to yap about what I think.
I am praying that her son comes back alive and in one piece. I am praying that all of them do. I guess it was just interesting to hear that the soldiers that he knows all support Cindy's right to speak out against the war, I am guessing that the majority of troops do support her. Don't let the right-winged freaks tell you any different.
Sorry for the disconnected thoughts here. I am not a writer but I wanted to post this just because I think that hearing from a soldier who is going to be sent to Iraq that he supports the rights of the anti-war protesters is a telling sign of what is happening in America.

[WearyOne]

1. it's important to hear stories like this. It's only when it finally hits

home and begins to affect these 'true believers' that their minds will change

[earth mom]

61. And how hypocritical that these jerks ONLY care

when it's someone THEY love?!

That's too little too late IMO.

[babylonsister]

2. Thanks, johnnie. It has been written on DU

often that, until this war personally affects the repugs, they'll continue living in their happy, ignorant bubble. Seems like that's what's happened to your friend. I hope her son stays safe, too, but am enjoying the personal stories of people seeing the light.

[Arkansas Democrat]

7. Thanks johnnie

Unfortunately I'm afraid that's what it usually takes for these diehard Bush supporters to finally see what kind of man they elected. I can't believe some of my family members are finally speaking out against him because of the gas prices!! They've defended him so much until the gas prices went up so much and now he's not the hero he's been all along.

[demnan]

3. What a turn around, but not a surprise

I saw it happen, even in my own family when I was a child during the Vietnam war. Sending your own over there makes a big difference. That's why the chickenhawk issue should have been used by Kerry and all the Democrats. Most of these guys in office haven't served, and as Michael Moore pointed out, they don't send their kids to serve either. This is why they are resisting the urge to put the draft in. The draft will be the end of the Republicans.

[Tesla]

4. An honorable ,guy her son is.

My dad was in WWII and he CRIED when he got his orders to go to Korea.
WAR IS HELL!!!!

You do what you promise to do to keep your word.
You may not like it, but you do it.

He loved America, and this womans' son does to.

We need an Honorable President, one our Solders can look up to, not down at.

[johnnie]

6. He is

I'm very proud of the kid. I don't know him really well, but well enough to know what a good person he is.

[acmejack]

8. It would be a pleasant change!

An honorable person that is a leader. And it would be nice if they were not a member of the moneyed aristocracy that runs this Country for the benefit of the few. We are due to have someone who speaks for the People!

[bleedingheart]

5. doesn't suprise me but why do people always have to get burned first

before they figure out the fire is hot...????

[NewJeffCT]

9. Now they say he's not a real Texan!!!!

I've been saying that since I joined DU - how can he be a true Texan when his favorite sport is baseball? Everybody knows that in Texas it's football, spring football, football, football recruiting and then more football at the top of the list.

Also, there are plenty of moderates & moderate Republicans out there who dislike Bush quite a bit... however, they so successfully demonized Kerry last year as a flip-flopping, tax-raising, soft on defense milquetoast that they held their noses & voted for Bush. (And, the same thing would have happened if Dean, Clark, Edwards, etc would have run, only instead of Swift Boat Vets for Truth, we'd have had Doctors for Truth or Generals for Truth or Lawyers for Truth)

[johnnie]

15. I told her last night

"You know, they say georgie might be moving to Dallas after his term", to which she replied "Good, Dallas is a big place I hope he gets lost". LOL

[Horse with no Name]

31. Dallas is BLUE!

Not sure if there is room for him there--he may have to go NAWTH to Plano or something.:)

[gratuitous]

10. Good for you for listening

It's awfully tempting (and I've been guilty of it myself in cyberspace) to respond with anything from "told you so" to "screw you, you selfish wretch" (or even worse things that would make Jesus want to drink gin straight out of the cat's dish) and it speaks well of you that you're willing to listen quietly to your friend as she wakes up.

I would advise, however, that you make with a little encouragement as well. Once the immediate crisis has passed, or once she's gotten used to the present situation, it will be really easy for her to revert to her former beliefs which were so comfortable for so long. You can make that trip back to the Land of Delusion a little harder.

[jackster]

55. I promised myself that I would just say

to those that changed their minds.....

you wouldn't listen, we tried to tell you, but you voted for the moron anyway

however, that's not going to get the job done - WE'VE GOT TO BE THE BIG TENT - !~

[Infomaniac]

11. The clue phone's been ringing for quite a while.

I'm glad more people are starting to answer the phone.

[jackster]

12. happening everywhere...

but I agree, it still burns me that these people are so unempathetic and so unsympathetic to others UNTIL THEY are affected. Their selfishness is ruining our democracy. Still - we must not shut them out as much as we want to. In order to take back the country, we need them.

Thanks Ronnie Raygun - father of the 80's march to corporate and personal greed!

[Booster]

40. They're still the "me, me, me" Repugs we all know and love.

From talking to some of my Republican friends (ex-friends), they really believe that because they are Republican the really ugly things this administration does, like out-sourcing jobs, SS, tax breaks for the rich,privacy issues,etc., just won't apply to them. Go figure.

[jackster]

42. it might take a little longer for them to be affected....

but IT WILL HAPPEN!

[mtnsnake]

13. Bush is scared shitless of stuff like this especially that news of Cindy's

crusade might hit home with our soldiers stationed in Iraq.

[Wetzelbill]

14. that was good of her son to say that

The unfortunate thing is often it takes something really harsh for Right-Wingers to change their tune. When something bad happens to them, then and only then, do many of them come around. Like Nancy Reagan and stem cell research. Her husband would have never supported that and she wouldn't have either. Had Ronnie not been stricken by a disease that stem cell research could one day have an effect on, well, she wouldn't have been concerned about it. That's how it often happens. Unfortunately, many just can't get through all the spin in the first place, it takes cold, hard reality to finally make them understand how serious things are. I hope her son comes home ok and that she never has to feel Cindy's pain. I would wish that on nobody. It is good of you not to press her. Just keep letting her get those feelings out. You're a good friend.

[TheFarseer]

16. It's always fine til it's your kid

Until you lose YOUR job or YOUR kid, bush is a "moral man".

[Spinzonner]

17. Being a Bush supporter

means not having empathy.

The only problems you can recognize or give a damn about are your own.

[lostnfound]

19. I wonder if some people are just taught to wall off the world's problems

in a self-protective defense, while others are encouraged to help solve them.

I know some Bush supporters who are very empathetic toward people they know -- i.e., toward their coworkers -- but maybe not toward "nameless others".

[sonias]

18. Great story johnnie; but sad for this woman's son

Thanks for sharing. That has been the problem with America and this war, the whole disconnect. Until it affects them personally, many didn't seem to care or they agreed with the MSM lies. Now they're waking up and seeing things differently, since it's more personal. I wish this woman's family the best. May her son come home safely. And hopefully she will take that anger she feels right now and work for peace and to bring the troops home.

Sonia
A Texan
Peace is Patriotic

[Tesla]

21. Great point to make to her

"And hopefully she will take that anger she feels right now and work for peace and to bring the troops home."

[unhappycamper]

20. When our kids come back, they will most likely be permanently damaged.

1. read this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=137601

2. google: "depleted uranium"

3. and if that doesn't scare the shit out of you, google: ptsd iraq


Our kids are being killed and damaged in more ways than bullets and bombs.

[w8liftinglady]

45. I suspect that the reason there is a virtual blackout ...

is that they are asking those boys to do things that a person with a conscience might object to.What alternative do you have when they are holding you captive over there?I hope my son isn't too f*cked up when he gets back.That is what really scares me.

[jackster]

48. w8liftinglady...

love, thoughts, and prayers be with you until your precious boy comes home safe and sound....

a mother's cry is heard can be the most powerful thing on earth....

[w8liftinglady]

56. Thanks-you guys are my sanity..

[tsuki]

22. I pray her son comes back also, but if he does, this sort of

person will revert back to *. When the threat to HER is gone, she'll forget any "inconvience" and become the cheerleader to power that she was before.

[ronnykmarshall]

37. and you know this for a fact?

[MADem]

23. Tip O'Neill said it best, and he LIVED BY IT

ALL POLITICS IS LOCAL.

Georgie was just fine to this woman so long as she got her lousy three hundred dollar tax break, but the second that Georgie's policies affect HER life in negative fashion, well, he SUCKS.

There's only so much pandering to the base that can work. Hey, it is all very well and good to worry about Jesus and the Ten Commandments and whether or not that woman you don't even know just MIGHT abort that fetus, but when your kid is going off to the meatgrinder-sandbox, all that shit becomes unimportant and all you want is your kid safe.

Too late for the nitwits who voted for that Kennebunkport cowboy...

[enough]

24. Those soldiers must see Cindy's deep emotion and realize that

she could be the mother of one of their buddies, or even their OWN mother.

[rateyes]

25. That's exactly why Charlie Rangel,

talked about bringing back the draft. If those in Congress, (perhaps even *, if he has any heart at all for his daughters--although he could probably get them in the "Champagne Unit," and tell them it doesn't matter if they show up for duty or not)--had to vote with the realization it was their own sons/daughters, grandsons/granddaughters, they were sending to the line....they would think twice about it---(instead of not thinking at all.)

Problem is: Richboys like "silverspoon" can always find a way to avoid a draft and still claim to be "patriots." YUK.

[tk2kewl]

26. Exactly. IMO we should not have an all volunteer army...

Everyone should be required to serve 2 years.

[julianer]

34. Wouldn't that make the armed forces

even bigger? Believe me, what the world wants to see is a smaller US military.

[tk2kewl]

35. It would mean everyone would have something at stake...

and therefore the decision to go to war would have real political consequences for those making the decision.

[julianer]

39. Just so long as there is less

actual going to war in future, I'm happy.

[jackster]

43. alot of people may not agree but I do...

I support Rangel and compulsory service BY ALL for some period of time whether it be civil or military service. Everyone must serve in some capacity.

[rateyes]

44. 2 years right out of high school...

serving in some capacity...not necessarily the military. I believe, for example, that, before becoming a "doctor" a person had to spend two years living WITH the poor, would make that person a different kind, and better, doctor. Same for all professions.

[jackster]

47. RIGHT ON! AGREED!

n/t

[rateyes]

50. Maybe we ought to set up a program..

Or enocourage our children to join peace corp, some other such group before heading off to college!

[Karenina]

54. I'd support 2 years mandatory service

between the ages of 22 and 25. Finish college or work awhile out of H.S., grow up a bit...

[NJCher]

27. communication

I know she is having a very hard time with all of this and it's not the right time for me to yap about what I think.

You are very wise.


Cher

[madmax]

28. You're a very caring person.

And very smart. Let her do the talking. Some people when they vent their frustrations, fears, and hunches aloud it seems to resonate more than if you talked till you're blue. No matter how right you are.

'But here they are opening their eyes to what is really happening and it is just so strange to have this friend of mine actually agreeing with me now. I don't push it and I just let her talk. I know she is having a very hard time with all of this and it's not the right time for me to yap about what I think.'

:hug:

[Richardo]

29. You are handling this just right, johnnie....

:thumbsup:

Making the change in political outlook is a very fragile process... I know this from personal experience.

The last thing she needs is "I told you so". Support, reinforcement and encouragement will tip her on this issue and also cause her to re-examine and probably challenge her other political assumptions. Be ready with reference material (Although Chomsky and Zinn might be a little TOO challenging at this point.

Nice to hear about the troops, too. They understand that they are in service to protect the rights of ALL of us, not just Republicans.

[johnnie]

41. She always hated when I went on a rant..lol

She has never gotten used to the fact that I will speak my mind on politics no matter who wants to hear it and so we keep it to ourselves.
The other day when she went on about georgie not being from Texas and all, I said nothing.
Now she seems ot want to talk about it because she understands that my ranting wasn't just to hear myself talk, but to show that I really DO give a shit what happens to this country and to it's citizens. And she also now knows that I care deeply about what her son will be going into and I think she feels a bit safer discussing all of it with me.

[johnnie]

30. I just talked to my friend

She said to tell you what her son said to her this morning:
Copied from her words:

"he said...if they all felt as if they were fighting for us....American people....it would be different, but we are dying, not for us but for someone else's problems. We would proudly fight for our country, defend each of you....but it seems unnecessary for us to die for no reason."


She wanted me to share that with you.

[jackster]

51. johnnie please tell your friend

that we support her son with all our hearts here - we will pray that he and all our other sons and daughters, husbands and wives, brothers and sisters come home safe and sound to help us build a better world.

Also please tell your friend that if she is interested in joining us, that she could learn so much and be supported by many, many loving people here.

[johnnie]

52. I just did.

She is amazed that people that don't know her cares that much. She has a lot to learn about us "libruls".
She is very taken aback at the posts here.

[NoSheep]

32. Thanks for the story. It will be happening more and more I hope. n/t

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

33. Bush can't count on people once they have a personal stake

in his outcomes

[pursuivant]

36. Just like the old adage that a liberal is a conservative

who's been arrested.

A liberal is a conservative who's been screwed by The Man.

[Catherine Vincent]

38. It's too bad Anderson Cooper didn't hear your friend's son

say that about Cindy Sheehan. He had an anti Cheehan Iraq war veteran on stating that Ms. Sheehan is getting soldiers killed.:eyes:

[electropop]

46. There are more and more former idiot-supporters every day.

I am finding them all around me. Each person has a different reason for waking up.

One right-winger in my office is sick of the religious right trying to rule his life.

Another right winger personally dislikes Bush because of the gas prices.

Another Republican in my office voted for Kerry because of the war.

When I phone-banked for Kerry, I talked to a number of converts, all very sadly admitting to themselves (and me) that they couldn't vote for the idiot.

We will hold onto them best by using a welcoming, gentle approach.

[GreenPartyVoter]

49. Thank you for taking the high road and treating her with love

and respect. :hug: I think in the end you will win her over even faster that way.

[samsingh]

53. agreed that many people can be won over with love, dignity and respect

however, a core group of the repugs and neoconservatives and idiots like rush have proven that they are bullies and will keep kicking you as long as you let them. The high road doesn't work with them. Only standing up and fighting back does. They're bullies, but cowards at the same time.

Michael Moore is right. The repugs have to feel the impact of their policies on themselves and then they sing a completely different story.

Did the mother in this story care about other people's children? or the innocent Iraqi's that have been killed and maimed? No. She buys the line that the Iraqi sacrifice will only reward their country (not sure how this helps those that have died).

[johnnie]

57. You know her?

She was not "for the war", but didn't pay as much attention to it. She didn't want to talk about it.
I'll ask her if she knows you because you seem to talk about her like you do.

[flyarm]

58. slowly introduce her to pnac..and rebuilding americas defences..

tell her you would like to " share with her" what the war is about..and just let it lay there until she asks..or write down the www. stuff for her on a card..and give it to her and say..if you want to understand what is going on...look at these..and then let it go..if she is really awakening curiosity ought to sdrive her to look it up..you could add a couple good web sites with info to introduce her to whats going on ..like buzzflash

i have a friend whos son is in iraq..and everytime she talks to him she gets madder and madder..because she says he thinks this war is a lie..and he has to be real careful when talking to her the few times he calls...so i did what iam telling you to do..and after a month..she called me and was screaming saying..how could * have done this to us..i would never have let my son to go fight this war had i known...

it is a rude awakening for those who were so blinded..and it is really hard for them to come to grips with it...so lead gently..she will thank you ..after she is over the shock and awe of truth!
and remember her child is there..so do be gentle..

[Hailtothechimp]

59. What soldier (or their family) wants to die for this "noble cause"?

I'd be shocked if any of them would. It sounds like your neighbor had an inverted 'Come to Jayzus' moment. I hope her son is OK too.

[XanaDUer]

60. No need to apologize, johnnie

Good for this lady's son. She cannot be that bad if she raised a son who could say that to her.

Think of how wonderful the world could be if people made decisions on how they could negatively effect everyone, not just loved ones or themselves.

Cheers!