Well, guys, I'm finally here at the point of filing bankruptcy.

[flamin lib]

Lost my job to outsourcing four years ago. Spent a year looking for an new one. Spent lots of money on credit cards getting "re-trained" to become a real estate agent. First year lost $10,000. Second and third year broke even. Cash advanced credit cards to make the house payment. Financed my business with credit cards. Now gas is at $2.81 a gallon. Cost me $72 to fill the tank this week.

National Association of Realtors just released poll results that show average Realtor income down 30% in the last three years and still on the decline, and that's for people who have been in the business for more than 11 years not just us newbies.

The new bankruptcy laws go into effect October 1.

My wife, bless her, has carried me on her back all this time being the one to work 60 hours a week and playing what little assets we have like a concert pianist.

Credit card debt is over $150,000. My life insurance is worth about $250,000. It'll take me 100 years to earn that much.

Sorry, just had to vent to someone and DU is anonymous enough for me to get it off my chest.

But don't worry, I have it on good authority that the economy is strong and getting stronger. My President told me so.

[bluestateguy]

1. Will you make it before the new rules go into effect?

One silver lining in the new bankruptcy law is that there could be rush of last minute filings under the old rules. One last "screw you" to the credit card companies.

[flamin lib]

7. The plan is to make it before the deadline. A lot of good BK attorneys

aren't taking new clients--work load is too high.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. *hugs* Been through that. It's been 5 years and still we are struggling

with the leftover student loans. (And we ended up going back to credit cards when we couldn't get a business loan to start up a business.)

It ain't easy, but you can get through this.

Come on in and vent any time you need to!

:hug:

[Zinfandel]

3. Hope your not buying a house...They'll grab it.

[flamin lib]

Been in my house for 25 years. Texas provides for a homestead

that can only be taken for tax leins or failure to pay mortgage. We can keep it which is a big factor in recovering from the BK.

[Zinfandel]

13. Is that with the new federal bankruptcy laws? California with the most ...

expensive real estate in the country...Only allows 75K in equity, if you have more you have to sell your home (or they will take it from you)...Shit, 75K in California will barely get you a down payment and that's all that you are allowed or your creditors can come in and feast on everything over.

[elehhhhna]

18. TX has VERY GENEROUS bk rules. Get going & just do it.

[rateyes]

4. I'm sorry to hear that, flamin lib...

don't listen to the pRes...and find a good lawyer to help you file before Oct. 1, it sounds like the best plan. And, I hope you find a good paying job, soon!

[KarenInMA]

5. I am so sorry to hear of your troubles.

Please do this before the law goes into effect. F those credit cards companies!!

I wish I had a job for you :cry:

[no_to_war_economy]

6. good vibes here for you and your family

[notadmblnd]

8. you can file bankruptcy on just yourself.

I did, before my husband died (when he got sick). Just make sure your house payment and car are up to date if you plan on keeping them. I cried when I had to do it, but I don't regret it for a minute. I used to go to bed at night, lying awake wondering how I was going to borrow from Peter to pay Paul. Once again I can sleep at night.

[ironman202]

9. Don't do it!

it's for schmucks:

re: credit cards...if you're already cut off and in collections, and you're sending them $5 a month, they can bitch and scream all they want, but they can't really do anything about it. Lawyers will threaten and complain and call and generally be unpleasant, but as a matter of law, they have nothing. Send them five bucks a month and they can sue you.

re: mortgage this you gotta pay, or sell your house. If it comes to that, sell it yourself, don't let them foreclose.

re: real estate...get out of it. Try getting a job with a title company instead. Pay isn't fantastic, but it's steady. Better yet, at the state recorders office.

[classof56]

14. Hmmm...funny, I don't feel like a schmuck.

Just a hard-workin' law-abidin' citizen who found myself in some pretty dire straits for numerous reasons. For what it's worth, I did the one with the 100% payback, so maybe it was more like a debt management plan. Whatever. Name's the same and it stayed on my record for 10 years. I probably wouldn't do it again, but come October it won't be an option. And if Bushie succeeds in taking away my Social Security, hard to say where I'll be. Under some bridge, I suspect. As they say, life's a bitch and then you die...

Blessings!

[flamin lib]

15. Long term the RE business isn't a bad option, it just takes time.

I'm running ahead of average income for someone in the biz only three years. If growth curve maintains, I'll be in the black next year and do pretty well the years after. But you dig an awfully deep hole in five years. Problem is how to maintain between now and then.

[elehhhhna]

19. ironman that's bad advice.

[ironman202]

31. the evidence is overwelming that declaring bankruptcy is a bad idea

the truth is, you will never recover from it, whereas, if you work with your creditors or at least stave them off until you're on your feet, you can recover. There's a reason that bankruptcy is the last resort. Because it's last. Hardly anyone that does it, should have.

[truebrit71]

36. I'm sorry but that is total bunk...

..what evidence are you referring to?

[ironman202]

38. ok, you can disagree

good luck buying a house, or even renting one with a bankruptcy on the record, or getting hired or just about any thing else.

[truebrit71]

52. I have done all three since filing....

Next...

[flamin lib]

37. Here's the deal. I'm running out of time--not to file, but to make it

to the actuarial end of my life. There isn't enough time left before I die for me to pay these debts off.

They aren't frivolous debts. They are legitimate health, business and personal expenditures.

And yes, you can recover from bankruptcy. If I keep the house, and make payment on the car on time and if it is discharged as required by the court I can have my credit back in reasonable shape in a year.

I know because I've put people in houses within two years of bankruptsy at very favorable interest rates.

Recovery depends on two things: How did it happen and what have you done to fix it.

[ironman202]

39. it's ok to have a different opinion.

I hope you make it work for you and I don't wish anything but happiness for anybody!

[flamin lib]

42. No offense taken. Lots of room for diverse opinions.

In the scheme of things, BK isn't the worst thing. Foreclosures of loans; be it car, furniture or home are a bigger deal. If the BK goes as structured and you stay clean going foreward the ramifications are less than the foreclosures.

If you have both, ie let the house/car/other go you are in deep doo for a long time. Unsecured debt is a different animal.

[progressivebydesign]

40. Tho bankruptcies stay on the record against you for 10 years.

Your friend that said late payments were worse than bankruptcies was not giving the best advice, actually. If you are staying in the real estate biz, in any capacity, a bankruptcy will count against you in other ways. The use of our credit scores in so insidious now.. and the real estate biz is such a credit intensive biz.

My mother in law is a loan executive. post bankruptcy loans are running at 10%... now, if you live in a cheap cheap area, that might not sound bad, I suppose. Sounds like you have a house, so you don't have to worry about buying another one for the next 8 or 10 years.. so that's a plus.

It's a personal decision... but for me, no matter how badly things have looked for my family in the past few years with all the job downsizing issues, I would not consider bankruptcy. A close family member is still reeling from hers... and it was 6 years ago for health bills she couldn't control. I would sell my house and downsize to something extremely modest before I'd file.

Do what you need to do, but you're right to do it before October if you are going to. Because after then, the judge will not erase the debts, but you will be forced to pay them back.

[flamin lib]

45. We are planing to pay off our debts. We legitimately owe them, we

bargained in good faith. We just need more time and lower expectations from our creditors. We talked about approaching the lenders directly, but that looks like a bad idea. We need to make a decisive move to prevent them from escalating interest rates or minimum payments.

We've paid a fair price for the use of other's money. The lenders haven't been short changed in the profits they've made from us. I don't feel guilty about my situation.

I just feel so powerless after being so successful for so long and having things change so dramatically in such a short time.

[serryjw]

51. The 3rd thing......

make money....It's an easy way to survive either with credit or cash IF you make money. You didn't say how old you were but from what I gather you must be a baby boomer. Sleeping at night is a good thing, and if a BK will reduce the stress, I say go do it
I'm in debt about $2000 which is not worth BKing due to illness and an inability to make more money. I never answer the phone and they can %^)_)__++ themselves......It will never get paid.

[elehhhhna]

50. That's full of beans. The majority of those who file

got into debt from medical bills AND had insurance at the time of their injury/illness.

You start repairing your credit the DAY the BK's granted. It IS a last resort but it's hardly abused as much as you seem to thnk.

[MercutioATC]

47. I disagree. Sometimes it's the only way out.

It was for me about 7 years ago during my divorce.

[classof56]

10. Hang in there!

As a bankruptcy survivor, I'm here to tell you you're not alone and there's no shame in it. We do what we have to, and so many things are out of our control--much more so now that when I had to file. My advice: Don't look back. You are a valuable human being and you have a support group on DU.

Blessings!

[revree]

11. We filed for Bankruptcy a few years back after we lost our business

to Wal-Mart (fuckers). It is not the evil, painful process people say it is, and there is no shame in it. It is a last resort, to be sure, but many people do try to do what they can, and bankruptcy is the end of the road. If you must file, do so quickly. We were able to keep our house, car and even refi our home loan a few years later (it does hurt your credit but not as much as late payments do, our mortgage broker friend tells us). We wish you well and know that all things will come together for you even as they seem to be falling apart...

[jackster]

12. so sorry....

I hope everything works out.

And with the real estate bubble about to burst, I don't think it's wise for you to stay in that line of business either. I don't have any pearls of wisdom for you, however, just that anytime you want to vent - you know where to go!

In this case, I think it's okay to say

BRING IT ON!

[flamin lib]

20. The good/bad news is that Texas doesn't have a bubble.

Average home value increase up 'till 2000 was 10-15%/year depending on what major metro area you're in. In 2000 it suddenly dropped to 5% in Dallas/Ft Worth, 2-3% in Houston and 0% in Austin.

Foreclosures are at a 30 year high though.

[jackster]

43. well, maybe it won't be so bad there

in Massachusetts we may be in for a very rough time....

best wishes to you - hang in there - you are not alone. I'm worried - very worried about the future for us all....

[donco6]

16. For what it's worth, sending good thoughts your way.

I owned my own business several years ago, and was lucky enough to sell it and escape my debt problem. I had a good attorney who was able to get my landlord to forgive my future lease.

[onecent]

17. I have a question. I know of someone who is in the exact

position you are in. What happens if he doesn't file bankruptcy BEFORE Oct 1st? I mean is it debtors prison? What will the thousands of people do that have no jobs to go to and all this debt?

Thanks for any help.

[flamin lib]

22. Google "bankruptcy + changes".

Chapter 7 becomes almost impossible (forgive debts entirely) and Chapter 13 (re-organization) becomes more difficult. Keeping assets becomes more difficult. I've got three cars--one is an antique--and I won't be able to keep it. I've owned it for 27 years and have lovingly rebuilt it from tires to roof, bumper to bumper. What a heart break.

[onecent]

25. Thank you. Will do. eom

[IdaBriggs]

21. Thomas Jefferson did it a couple of times.

Sympathy and support! We came close a few times (business failure left us $150K in debt), but we were able to dig out...shudder! One of the most stressful times in my life, and we were lucky our marriage survived it. Good luck! :)

[flamin lib]

26. I'm not concerned about my marriage. The woman is beyond description.

As it stands right now, if I were to make $75,000 in commissions a year and paid every penny above expenses to credit cards I'd have them paid off by the time I qualify for Social Security at 65.

[ignatius 2]

23. Good luck to you, but please do not fall into the trap of getting new

credit cards after these are off your back. The banks and credit card companies are like vultures and you will most likely get mail and more mail from them. It can be very enticing, but don't do it or they will have you all over again.

I took a second mortgage 7 years ago to pay off my credit cards and put some money into our business. We are due to pay off the 2nd in Novemeber, but I have 4 credit cards almost maxed again. We don't use them now and we are working our butts off to pay them off. I do not want the banks owning me any more.

[flamin lib]

28. The problem isn't in managing the credit cards, it's in managing

the demands. Everything was fine until I lost my job and insurance coverage. I went without income for four years, that's a $300,000 hit. I had $30,000 in dental expenses in the last three years. That's also on the credit cards.

If it weren't for the cards I wouldn't have a home right now, or a business that gives me some income and promise for the future.

It's not the cards, I didn't run up a bunch of luxury purchases. Shit happens and this time it happend to me.

[johnnie]

24. There is no shame in it

Many of us are working hard and trying to get by but are having a tough time just making ends meet.
You have to get on it NOW if you are going to file.

[truebrit71]

27. You need to do whatever you can to get out from under....

...I lost my job right after I moved into a brand new house we had built and sank everything into. I held on for 13 months before I had to file....ironically by that time I got a new job, unemployment ran out afer 6 months and the cocksuckers in government wouldn't extend the bennys anymore (to do that they'd have to admit that the economy is a fucking joke), but by that stage it was too late...I lost the house, but I escaped with my dignity and my pride. The toughest conversation I have ever had is with my 12 year-old daughter explaining that we had to move back into an apartment...She was perfectly fine with it...it had a pool and tons of kids....and it was a massive weight off my shoulders. I remember being able to sleep at night, not being afraid to answer the phone or check the mail.

If you have to file, don't dawdle, and remember there is no shame.

What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger.

[flamin lib]

30. Then I should be one strong son of a bitch when this is over. nt

[truebrit71]

32. I know I'm better for it....

Keep your chin up.

What is that annoying saying?...somthing like "it's always darkest before dawn.."

If for no other reason than to take some of the burden off your loyal and courageous wife, do what you have to do...you'll thank yourself in the end....

[KayLaw]

29. Just speed it up

Some credit cards are about to double the minimum payment heeding the urging of the government.

[flamin lib]

33. We're making more than the min on most of them and my wife has

managed to keep the APR under 5% on all of them. She is a magician I tell you. If all of the cards double the min, then it's a done deal.

[suziedemocrat]

34. I had to declare bankruptcy too - (computer programmer)

At the same time the job market was going south - I had the brilliant idea to finance my brother's music career with credit cards. When I was unemployed - I used cash advances to stay afloat. Managed to avoid being late with payments for years. But once I was maxed out on all my cards - Am ex raised my interest rate to 29% - which meant I could barely make my payments even when I was employed. As a contract computer programmer - employment was scare, contracts short, and I had to live in hotels all over the country to stay employed 3 months at a time. The contracts I liked where the projects went well - ended on time because we did a good job. The projects I hated because they were a nightmare - surprise - never ended - but were so stressful I usually ended up quitting in tears.

My bankruptcy was just discharged and I need to start over. But doing what??? I have no clue???

Anyway - do it NOW before it is too late. I used this forum for advice and it helped a lot.

http://forum.freeadvice.com/forumdisplay.php?f=50

Good Luck!!!

[flamin lib]

35. Thanks, I'll bookmark it. nt

[seersuckersuit]

41. how are the laws changing?

Can someone link to a site to explain exactly how, in detail, the bankruptcy laws are changing on October 1st? This will be good to know.

[flamin lib]

46. google bankrupcy + change nt

[w8liftinglady]

44. Been there

Home was foreclosed about 1 year ago after my divorce.In DFW area-over 15000 foreclosures aince the first of the year-too many people losing jobs here.

[blondeatlast]

48. Been there, done that; medical bills in my case.

You are far from alone, friend.

I wish you speed to make it before the new laws and fortitude to see it through.

Here's a great site with DIY advice; even if you hire an attorney, their books are top-notch (I'm a library book buyer, we sweatr by NOLO Press):

http://www.nolo.com/resource.cfm/catID/462A9501-9B21-4E09-A08C5A7B8AF51A79/213/161/

[dddem]

49. best of luck to you.

We're going through a similar situation - I haven't had to file, but we did have to take cash advances to pay the mortgage, and now it's going to take me years to pay it off. We had to take a second mtg to pay the IRS after we had to close out the 401k after the unemployment benefits ran out and my husband still couldn't find a job. Thankfully, he's working now, and luckily we have a lot of equity, so we have decided to refinance and go from a 15 to a 30 year mtg., so I still owe money, but now I can breathe a little easier. Do what you need to do now, cause after October, who knows what will happen. I told my husband we need to pay off the credit cards, and never use them again. I was beginning to feel like an indentured servant. I don't think it's by accident either. We need to be careful. I think sometimes that this group of nuts in power is seriously trying to eliminate the middle class. Good luck in the real estate game, I'm sure you'll be ok. And after the dust settles, you and your wife need to celebrate the strength of your marriage - I know how stressful this all is (if the religious nuts are really worried about traditional marriage, they should probably stop picking on Gay people, and start doing something about jobs and health care for families in this country. Grrr. - sorry - needed to go off topic for a minute - please forgive.)