Brazilian land - wow, it's very inexpensive.

[dutchdemocrat]

150 acres (60 hectares) for 350,000 Reals.... or US$143,000.

Comes with Corral, house...

Sunshine.

I am moving to Pernambuco at the end of the year. Lula is turning things around.



In Portuguese

http://www.almeidajunior.com/detalharural.php?cod=112#

Translated

http://www.systranbox.com/systran/box?systran_lp=pt_en&systran_id=SystranSoft-en&systran_url=http://www.almeidajunior.com/detalharural.php?cod=112#&systran_f=1124624007

[SoCalDem]

1. You'll have to look up our Brazilian DUer

Do you speak portuguese:)

[kikiek]

2. Is that the country where the Americans are going to buy up land and

plant soy?

[dutchdemocrat]

4. Dutch farmers are on an exodus

Many are moving to Brazil...

http://www2.rnw.nl/rnw/en/features/dutchhorizons/weeklyfeature/040728dh.html?view=Standard

This is not West Virginia that's for sure.



1200 Hectares for US$170,000 (approx). That's 4.6 sq. miles of farm.

http://www.almeidajrimoveis.com/detalharural.php?cod=16

I prefer Ilha Itamaraca. The water is more important than all the land.

No I don't speak Portuguese well, but I am starting a business there.

[ThomWV]

3. Compare That Picture To West Virginia

You could buy the land cheaper in West Virginia, a lot cheaper in fact. There would be some differences though. First; it would be colder in West Virginia, a lot colder. Second; there isn't that much flat land in the whole state. Third; although that appears to be a great crop in the background of your picture by comparison in West Virginia the boys know how to trim the pot plants properly.

[Tsiyu]

5. Good luck to you

I also have contemplated moving to Brazil, a few years back. I may still give it a go.

Just remember, there are critters in those trees you'll never see here! Bring your snakebite kit and long boots!

And keep us posted on your new life, dutchdemocrat.

:hi:

[Dez]

6. That's great! I was there last year

to visit John of God, in Abadiania. It was a wonderful experience, and the land was beautiful. I'm sure you'll love it!

[Swamp Rat]

7. É aí cara!

Também eu estou pensando em isso! Minha namorada mora lá no Ceará, mas eu gosto de Pernambuco, Alagoas, Sergipe e o nordeste inteiro! :loveya: Você tem que ficar em contato comigo. Já conheco o Pernambuco de Recife até Exú... o sertão! :D

fotos que eu tirei lá no Ceará, perto do Crato:


Asa Branca

Quando olhei a terra ardendo
Qual fogueira de São João
Eu perguntei ai, a Deus do céu, ai
Porque tamanha judiação

Que braseiro, que fornalha
Nenhum pé de plantação
Por falta dágua perdi meu gado
Morreu de sede meu alazão

Inté mesmo a asa branca bateu asas do sertão
Entonce eu disse adeus, Rosinha
Leva contigo, meu coração

Hoje léguas, muitas léguas
Nesta triste solidão
Espero a chuva cair de novo
Pra mim voltar pro meu sertão

Quando o verde dos teus olhos
Se espalhar na plantação
Eu te asseguro, não chore não, viu
Que eu voltarei, viu, meu coração

- Luiz Gonzaga

[nine23]

8. There's much better deals if you actually go there to "research"...

My partner and I went to Florianopolis, Santa Catarina last fall to visit some expat Canadian friends of ours who live, work and have settled in for the long haul in south Brazil.

Quick backstory: If things get any worse here in North America, largely due to the fascist fuckup running the all-powerful country to the south of here (whose only skill is fucking up incessantly and treating others with contempt), and our government in Canada continues to show a complete lack of balls in protecting our sovereignty, socio-political culture and economic interests, WE ARE NOT ABOVE LEAVING THE ENTIRE NORTHERN HEMISPHERE to get away from all this shite, and are presently planning/researching any moves accordingly.

We also have a flat in Pau, France which was willed to us by my wife's grandmother. It had an outstanding mortgage of about 30,000 euros when she passed (almost paid down) and would be worth about 180,000 euros if/when we decided to sell. (We love France, but it has it's share of "northern hemispheric" problems as well...)

We found that with this sum, in Santa Catarina state/Florianopolis/ilha de Santa Catarina, we could buy virtually ANYTHING...there was almost nothing we COULDN'T afford. I'm talking trendy 3-bedroom penthouses/lofts in Floripa (city) proper, enormous new(ish) beach houses (villas) on ilha de Santa Catarina...even gorgeous little ten unit pousadas (B&B's) if we were so inclined. (It appears you're looking for acreage though...)

This is NOT the case in Rio/Sao Paulo...they're huge cities with much more expensive real estate. They're also WAY more intense and crime ridden, with other problems as well.

Good luck and do your research. Talk to friends there if you can. And by ALL MEANS, learn Portuguese. (My apologies if you already know all this...)

[dutchdemocrat]

12. I was in Brazil

I was in Ilhabela, Brazil helping to launch a company for six months last year. It was quite expensive - being the playground of Sao Paulo's rich.

Not for me really - too many bored wealthy folks without the entreprenurial drive I like in people who make it on their own rather than sucking the family tit.

Nice island though.

I had enough time to learn a wee bit of the language, fall in love with the culture, and figure out how to live there. I got my CPF number by going to the post office and paying 2 real. It was that easy. A CPF number is like a social security number in the USA and allows for one to buy land, open a bank account etc in Brazil.

I am moving up to Pernambuco, somewhere close to Itapissuma/Itamaraca and think that "Maria Farinha" near Paulista is looking nice. I will of course buy when I get down there. I am researching right now.


EXCELLENT and funny article on one man's quest to buy a house in Brazil

http://www.escapeartist.com/OREQ5/Real_Estate_Brazil.html

Another article on buying in Rio

http://www.escapeartist.com/OREQ9/Rio_Real_Estate.html

[Mairead]

9. How is this different to being a "White settler" elsewhere?

The idea of an incomer buying up a large tract of land in a poor country seems ethically 'off' to me. It harks back to colonialism, I suppose -- White people buying land from other White people whose ownership was manufactured out of whole cloth using 'conquerer's law'.

[NewJeffCT]

10. Europeans are buying up US property now

Many Europeans took advantage of the weak dollar the last few years to scoop up investment properties, 2nd homes, etc in the US.

Japanese did it throughout the 80s on a bigger scale.

As more Chinese enter the middle class & upper classes, I expect them to start doing it as well. My wife & I have actually talked about buying property in China, though it might have been best to do that 3-4 years ago as real estate is soaring in many areas there.

[dutchdemocrat]

11. What a strange point of view.

And I don't consider myself a 'white' neo-colonialist for wanting to live in Brazil. Not at all, I have been living overseas away from the place of my birth all of my adult life and don't consider myself that nationalistic as to think that I am raping poor little Brazilians for paying low prices for their land.

Not when I am about to affect literally hundreds of people by starting up a business which will pay a good number of people very well (much higher than standard Brazilian salaries).

You are thinking in a box.

[Mairead]

13. Perhaps. It doesn't seem strange to me, though

And I didn't even for a moment think that you consider yourself a neo-colonialist! Does anyone, ever? How many colonialists have ever seen their behavior as exploitative, do you think? I do know that you've given one of the standard neo-colonialist self-exculpations (starting a business and paying employees above the local average).

I asked my original question out of real interest: how is what you're planning to do different to what we think of as neo-colonialist behavior?

Barbara Garson's book Money Makes The World Go Round is a fascinating look at economic colonialism both intended and un-:

Using half her publisher's advance for this book, Garson deposits $29,500 in a small, family-owned bank in Millbrook, New York. Putting her intrepid journalistic sensibilities to work, Garson then attempts to follow the money as it's put to use, flowing out of her small bank, through much larger ones, and in and out of the accounts and pockets of companies and their employees in the U.S. and Asia.

She tracks down players on all levels of this green path--from a senior vice president on Chase's Federal Funds desk to a seafood importer in Brooklyn, and from the head honcho of a Japanese construction firm building an oil refinery in Thailand to a jellyfish exporter in Malaysia--and tells their stories in vivid, colorful detail.

Doing more than just stating that the lives of many are affected by the actions of a few, Garson interviews people at the farthest reaches of her money's journey, like fishermen in a small Malay village, a Burmese pipe fitter working illegally in Thailand, and Filipino maids in Singapore.

She explores the consequences of a mutual fund investment in a similar manner, taking one of the fund's investments, Sunbeam, and following "Chainsaw Al" Dunlop's restructuring of the company from the top (shareholders) to the bottom (workers at a furniture plant in Tennessee).

[dutchdemocrat]

14. ?

I asked my original question out of real interest: how is what you're planning to do different to what we think of as neo-colonialist behavior?

Who is we? It's certainly not me.

What you coin neo-colonialism not what I come to know as the definition nor Wikipedia.

From Wikipedia

Neocolonialism is a term used by Marxist as well as non-Marxist groups and individuals to describe operations at the international level during the era when colonial empires, created by the European powers from the 16th to the 19th century, are no longer in existence. These critics allege that both nations and corporations have aimed to control other nations through indirect means; that in lieu of direct military-political control, neocolonialist powers employ economic, financial and trade policies to dominate less powerful countries. Those who subscribe to the concept maintain this amounts to a de facto control over targeted nations.

Your use of the word in describing my move to Brazil is rather misleading.

Secondly, I say you are thinking in a box. As an American, I presume, who has not lived and worked in another country for most of your life.

The world has changed outside of America - with European integration taking down walls that held people back from moving and living elsewhere in the continent. It's turning into what is known in modern English lexicon as a global village. And it's getting easier and easier to live and work where you choose to on this planet we share. And that is a good thing.

I am the offspring of two people who moved from the Netherlands and Ireland to Canada in order to practice what you would call, rather insiduously, neo-colonialism. Having their lives destroyed by wars unlike America and Canada have never seen on their soil - they were driven to seek better lives elsewhere. Hardly fair.

If you want to have a clear view of the topic, I suggest you do more reading of the slaughter of Native Americans by Europeans in history.

As for at is driving me? Moving to Brazil is natural - as I have lived and worked in over a dozen countries and travelled to scores more... on my own, funding my trips, working my ass off in foreign lands and it was not always easy.

I am partially being funded by the Brazilian Development Bank as well as some of my personal funds so one can hardly call it 'neo-colonialism' in any context. I will owe them the money as opposed to vis versa. Does the exportation of ideas fit into your vision of Third World exploitation?

Brazil refines uranium, builds jets that compete with Boeing, and sends rockets into space. Lula is closing the social divide and it's a strong social democracy.

Hardly a Third World country. You should go there sometime.

I have seen worse ghettos in St. Louis than favellas in Rio.

Here's what neo-colonialism is all about.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1576753018.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1576753018/qid=1124641551/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-1744509-4620637?v=glance&s=books

[Mairead]

16. Sure, fine, some other term then. The term is not the important part.

White Europeans moved into what's now Zimbabwe and bought land. The same was true, mutatis mutandis, of White european-origin people in many other countries including every single country in the Americas. 'Buying' the land is the second, 'legalistic' stage of colonialism, the first being outright conquistadore robbery-with-violence. After the first stage is done, everyone carefully ignores how the new owners came to be owners, as otherwise the second phase won't work.

It's behavior that's hardly ever tolerated on a smaller scale--someone cannot legally keep or sell a stolen car, for example, nor acquire ownership of a house by moving in and evicting or killing the existing owners. (There are exceptions, as in Germany during the '30s, but they're not usual.)

It looks to me as though you're planning to do what other colonialists do, and are using the same justifications that they use. But if my pointing that out to you doesn't give you pause or make you go 'hmmm', así es la vida.

[dutchdemocrat]

17. What is a colonialist?

And no it does not at all in the least bit.

I am emmigrating to Brazil with everything I have - my wife, family and three children. I am not wealthy, but I am intelligent and have found capitalization for a great business idea from not only the Brazilian government vis a vis BNDES, but also an investor in Brazil who may or may have a percentage of native blood (what is the amount needed to be considered a 'true' native) to be considered one 'who is being colonized.'

How much brown native blood vs. white european blood must one have to be considered descendents of the raped and pillaged? In Canada it's 1/8. If you 1/16 you don't get to be a 'native'.

I'd like to know your definition of what is considered a modern day victim of 'neo-colonialism'.

I don't know exactly what your path is in this discussion - but accusing me of being a colonialist because I am moving to Brazil is absurd. I am leaving a lot of comfort in the Netherlands - and it IS a comfortable (no doubt from its heyday of colonialism) place to live.

It's just not where I want too.

I have no qualms in building sailboats (large catamarans) utilising electric drives (not fuel) powered by the latest in deep cycle batteries tapped up with the power of the sun, the wind and the sea itself (in the form of spinning props and water generators). Homes on the sea that don't create industrial waste, don't need to rely on fuel in the form of diesel or petrol, and work in harmony with the elements. Fuel cell technology (electrochemical energy conversion device)is next...

And I equally have no problem building these boats in Brazil using ecologically correct materials. There were many choices - including Europe, but I happen to like living in the sun. And I happen to love living in Brazil.

C'est la vie - to each and their own I suppose. Your logic is deeply flawed on many levels leaving me to concur that I am being flamed.

Good luck living life with your blinders on in the US.

I won't even set foot in your country. Not until you remove the military industrialists and oil crowd who are currently attempting to colonize the Middle East. Though they will fail, they will fail of course.

[Blue_Tires]

15. have fun!!!

i know i've been trying to get to brazil for a couple of years now; once i can save up enough $$$$, i'm going and not coming back