heard a psycho-rant on MN radio the other day--turned out to be Limbaugh

[lebkuchen]

I hadn't recognized his voice--I'm not one of his listeners.

A couple of days ago Limbaugh said that if you read liberal blogs, you can find lots of commentary making threats on Bush's life, which is, of course, a lie. Anyone making a threat against a President would have the SS at their front door in short order.

During Clinton's term, however, I read many threats on webpages against the Clintons. Even Jesse Helms (R-NC) had warned Bill Clinton not to show up to bases in North Carolina because his life would be in danger. Rush must have forgotten about that incident.

Limbaugh isn't gaining converts. He can only lose what he has or stabalize. The MN Tribune reported this week that Limbaugh was, in fact, losing the bulk of his listening population. His listeners are those who would were ripe for the picking to begin with, and Rush told them what they wanted to hear. He has since tapped out his pool of "ditto-heads." Those radio listeners remaining are the ones who can think for themselves and are therefore not likely to find refuge with Rush.

I noticed while listening to Limbaugh's show that he doesn't provide any real information. He simply rants, name calls, labels, accuses without fact, and, basically, lies and misinforms. This is why he does not attract a thinking audience, not that that was ever his goal--I'm sure it's quite the opposite.

Rush told his listeners the other day that "liberal doomsayers" were predicting a recession. He told listeners that they should simply "refuse to participate" in the recession, and therefore, we wouldn't have one, which makes about as much sense as refusing to participate in a nuclear holocaust. This week inflation was reported to have spiked .5%, so recession is a possible outcome, and it happens to be taking place during Bush's presidency, but Rush chooses not to go into that.

One CAN refuse to participate in listening to vitriolic drivel on talk radio/news networks. That's why I hadn't recognized Limbaugh's voice, nor am I familiar with any of the FOX "News" ranters, who are also losing their viewership and are unlikely to gain new converts since FOX-minded ditto-heads have likewise already been harvested.

Military members have been writing to Stars and Stripes for months trying to get Limbaugh removed from American Forces Radio, without success. Eventually Rush will go, simply due to a lack of interest.

[asikite]

1. Mega dittos

[newyawker99]

35. Hi asikite!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[UTUSN]

2. & While He Spews More Hate Words in 30 Seconds Than HITLER

He claims that "Leftists" are the ones who HATE. I must have been listening on the same day.

[lebkuchen]

5. That was the day I discovered Ed Schultz

as I desperately searched the airwaves for someone even remotely moderate. I was pleased with Ed's broadcast from Crawfish.

[UTUSN]

30. On Second Thought, It Could Be Most Any Day n/t

[ThoughtCriminal]

3. His Advertisers do NOT want a thinking audience

Ditto heads are the perfect target market.

[EST]

4. Yeah, he almost seems to be working off a script.

Same techniques, same name calling, ranting and the usual craziness. He just plugs in a different name. The points you raise are spot on all across the right wing gangland. It appears that they've pretty much harvested the intellectually challenged and just have to keep pounding the notes.

Now is the time for men and wemen of real character to step forward and reclaim the ethical swamp, loud voices and drain plungers at the ready.

[wake.up.america]

8. No such thing as global,warming and if it does, its all because of

Clinton.

Smog, no such thing. Its all that hot air from the Democrats.

The number of abortions has actually gone down since Bush.

Cindy is making her story up. It's a story fabricated by the DNC.

The capital of Irag is safer than any city in America governed by a Democratic mayor.

Electricity in Iraq, why they have more electricity in Iraq since the war started.

The number of casualties in Iraq is at least 2 times lower than the liberal media reports.

Bush's popularity is actually climbing because of Cindy S

I will predict Bush will win the Nobel Peace Price.

The French did not help America in the war against England, neither did the fellow Von Steuben. All lies by the liberal European Press.

[EST]

24. The source of the world-wide

pollution and warming problems may be related to a certain bag of hot wind, a huge simmering pile of BS and a perennially broken "truth detector."

The infamous brain and talent on loan from God (I found this out during a warm, fuzzy, well lubricated get together with that infernal teenager) was kind of a mistake. You see, it happened to be a leftover from an embarrassing little slip up while creating a platypus and a hyena and nobody else would take it. She thought she had palmed it off on a new kind of rooster (Thing had a crooked beak, a tendency to want to nest in places way too high to descend from, plus it was too timid even to tackle anything its own size and and always wanted to eat stinky old dead stuff belonging to somebody else.)
What a goober, heehee!

Anyway, even that loser wouldn't fall for it, so it laid around in the outhouse 'til some idiot came along who would steal it and then brag about it. (Dumb greedy bastard)

Amazing what a person can find out with friends in high places.

Edit to add: I forgot to tell the part about all the big ugly poop flies that were hanging around. They all had only one wing each-missing their left ones - but they seemed to move around ok, waving these wierd little magnetic signs instead. But that's a story for another time...

[lebkuchen]

9. Re: speaking out, you may appreciate this:

On Aug. 18 the Minneapolis Star Tribune printed this story:

Lourey's neighbors divided

http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5566178.html

In Sen. Becky Lourey's hometown, people interviewed Wednesday were divided in their opinions about her plan to fly to Crawford, Texas, today to join Cindy Sheehan's protest outside President Bush's ranch.

<cut>

The Rev. Nate Anderson, who is Lourey's neighbor and pastor at Oak Lake Lutheran Church, paused in front of the bank to reflect on Lourey's trip and the war.

"I'm sure her personal tragedy is playing a role," said Anderson, 52, who serves as a declared Libertarian member of the Kerrick Township Board.

He said, "Nobody rejoices at war, but we have to recognize that sometimes, that's how nations work. Personally, I think we have an obligation to be there. We're trying to establish stability in the Middle East. It may be 40 years before we know whether we were right or not."

********************

My father searched for the e-mail address of the church, found it, and sent this to the pastor:

Dear Pastor Anderson,

I'm a veteran, Lutheran and an active supporter of Cindy Sheehan.

I see that you believe our war dead and wounded are somehow restoring stability in the Mid East. I find it strange that a man of the cloth could think that our invading a country that never harmed us, killing about 100,000 innocent civilians, destroying their major cities and all their infrastructure is in any way restoring stability to the Middle East. The 1,860 American dead died because our President lied. Or do you think that we will still find those WMD?

I'm sure you agree with Rush in that if we don't fight them in Iraq, we'll have to fight them in the streets of Willmar. What hogwash.

Next time you're interviewed, please tell them you're a Baptist so I won't have to be embarassed being a Lutheran.

[EST]

13. I am blown away!

Thank you so much for sharing this. I am continually amazed at the clarity, authenticity, and sense of purpose of my fellow travelers on the ethical high road. (Roaring applause!)

[lebkuchen]

15. Cindy has galvanized the thoughtful

She is the catalyst.

[EST]

32. She is the catalyst, and cowboy boosh can't abide

horseys and knows absolutely nuttin 'bout catal. (Sorry, can't resist the duble')

[yardwork]

17. Rush is working from a script - one provided by the White House

[emulatorloo]

6. And just think, Vice President Cheney often appears on Rush Limbaugh

as a very special guest.

I still find it shocking that the Office of the Vice President is being sullied in this way.

[tabasco]

7. Maybe his ass-boil was flaming up.

Rush's listeners are following his example. The Army will miss annual recruiting goal by about 10,000 recruits.

The only thing more pathetic than Limbaugh is one of his stupid listeners. He really has proven the maxim "you can fool some of the people all of the time." Rush tells them high gas prices are a good thing....they agree! Limbaugh listeners are the core group of nitwits that "can't go to war because we have to stay here and fight the culture war." LMAO. Absolutely pathetic.

[ComerPerro]

10. Here is how Limbaugh's show works

He introduces a topic. He provides a brief background on it and some of the details of what's happening (some of which is actually based in reality).

Then, here is where the real genius comes into play:

He takes the issue and either adds in his own lies, spins the issue to the right, puts words into people's mouth, invents figures and quotes, or some combination of the above.

He then takes this new reality that he has created and uses it to build his argument. That, right there, is the genius of Limbaugh.

It is brilliant for many reasons:

One, it sounds powerful. It starts on a point, then builds and builds into a crescendo of outrage and incredulity, usually riddled with powerful, energetic, and perhaps even inspirational phrasing. He winds into his rant and moves quickly to points, as to ensure that listeners are reaching to his words on emotion alone and are not actually thinking about what he is saying. By the time he reaches the apex of his rant and his listeners have reached their spiritual peak, he has invoked in his listeners (whether they agree with him or not) powerful emotions.

Secondly, and most importantly, his arguments can hold up to logical analysis. This is because his arguments are based on a reality he invents. Those of you who do not listen to Limbaugh may not know what I am talking about, so here is an example:

Imagine, if you will, listening to Limbaugh. He makes a blanket statement that Ted Kennedy doesn't support the president, and therefore must be kicked out of the Senate. Anyone who is reading this now (unless they are a lurking FReeper) could tear that line of reasoning to shreds without even batting an eye.

But now imagine Limbaugh says "Kennedy was at a rally for Socialists for Hitler the other day, and he made some odd remarks about wanting to assassinate President Bush. Really, I don't think this is appropriate for a Senator to be saying, and I really think he should be forced to resign."

Rush's argument is that Kennedy should resign, and logically it is correct. That is because his argument is built on the assumption that Kennedy did in fact attend a meeting of "Socialists for Hitler" and say those things. Even if its not true, even if Rush completely invented the "fact", his assertion is still based on that.

Granted, an argument that is built on a false premise is invalid. But that's how the right works.

Rush's dittoheads then call in, feign moral outrage, and announce that they agree with Rush's assertion, implicitly validating Rush's accusation about Kennedy.

For those who disagree with Rush, however, things get more difficult. Not only must you get through his call screener and be able to actually speak to him on air, you must also get out all your points before Rush hangs up on you and the proceeds to lecture you as though you were still on the line with him.

So what do you do first? Do you challenge his assertion that Kennedy should resign? Or do you point out that Kennedy did not speak before the group, or that there may not even be a group called "Socialists for Hitler"/ What do you refute first. If you go after the assertion, then you are implying that you do not contest his accusation. Yet if you go after his accusation, all Rush has to do is ask for "credible evidence" that Kennedy did not appear before Socialists For Hitler and make those remarks. By that time, you have been disconnected and he is using your call to provide for his listeners an example of "how disconnected from reality the loony left really is".



When everything that someone says is a lie, but they build their arguments on their lies, where do you begin to refute them? Thats the dilemma.

[mcscajun]

11. That's it in a nutshell.

"When everything that someone says is a lie, but they build their arguments on their lies, where do you begin to refute them? Thats the dilemma."

:dilemma:

[ComerPerro]

16. And if you listen enough, its enough to put you in a nut-house

[lebkuchen]

12. In that case, I follow Rush's advice and refuse to participate

in the lie rather than becoming entrenched in the argument supporting the lie.

The day the US becomes as extreme about education as it is about promoting an extreme policy of multi-front preemptive wars is the day Limbaugh/FOX et al will be instantly recognized by the public for what they are: a rehash of 1930s/40's propaganda devices.

[ComerPerro]

14. So, never. Gotcha.

[lebkuchen]

25. Have you ever changed the mind of a Limbaugh fan?

I submit that one can have all the evidence at hand, but it won't make a difference in the narrow minds of his listeners.

I believe the bulk of the population is more educated than it is fearful, unreasoning, and bigoted (as per Limbaugh's fans). Therefore, I think it's best to drive home the sensible argument, as Cindy Sheehan is doing, rather than engage in the fantastic, as Rush hopes he can sidetrack the general public into doing.

Limbaugh has corralled a group of people who had believed the lies and false premises (almost all based on deep-seated bigotry, btw) before Rush ever existed. Limbaugh simply provided the stage from which to pontificate those bigots' views in the manner with which you have described, and then he organizes them into a PAC. He's not converting anyone.

I admire those who make attempts to call his show and provide the sensible argument, but let's face it, his talking points are direct from the RNC, and his job is to promote them, not offer a stage for a reasonable dialog of opposing views. There is nothing democratic, or Socratic, about Rush. You don't think it's a waste of time trying to make it otherwise?

[Hubert Flottz]

27. Reading down this thread I kept thinking of Julius Streicher and

Der Stürmer

Rush uses the word liberal, much like Julius Streicher used the word Jew, to create hatred.

Julius Streicher

Julius Streicher (February 12, 1885 – October 16, 1946) was a prominent Nazi prior to and during World War II. He was the publisher of the Nazi Der Stürmer newspaper, which was to become a part of the Nazi propaganda machine. The newspaper was controversial even in Nazi circles because of its pornographic obsessions and sensationalism. His publishing firm released anti-Semitic books for children, such as 1938 Der Giftpilz (The Toadstool) (http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/thumb.htm).

http://www.hartselle.us/project/wikipedia/index.php/Julius_Streicher


Report of Streicher's address to 2,000 children at Nuernberg, Christmas 1936, from Fraenkische Tegeszeitung, 22nd December 1936:

Two thousand children rejoiced with Julius Streicher....

The Gauleiter told the little ones about the terrible times after the war, when the Devil dominated mankind. "Do you know who the Devil is," he asked his breathlessly listening audience. "The Jew, the Jew," resounded from a thousand children's voices.

http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/resource/document/DocStrei.htm

The Nazis had American help building their propaganda machine...

Ivy Lee was decades ahead of his colleagues

http://www.nku.edu/~turney/prclass/readings/3eras2x.html

How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power

http://www.ecosyn.us/Bush-Hitler/Bush-Hitler.html

[lebkuchen]

29. ....busy adding to my favorites list....

I'm very interested in this topic. Thanks for providing more info.

I sense the media's "liberal" labeling technique has lost its intended fear-factor with the public. Have you noticed how the press has lately ratcheted up the "discourse" by referring to anyone to the left of Hitler as being "the far left" or "fringe left?"

[lebkuchen]

33. "intolerance is something that must be carefully taught."

That the Nazis subscribed to this belief is evident from the manner in which the Jewish problem was incorporated into the instruction of the young.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/m/mills-mary/mills-00.html

As an adult, I wouldn't be vulnerable to such an "education," but I have personally experienced supervisors using their position of influence in attempting to spread this kind of organized hatred to subordinates at the work place inre: the Iraqi people.

[yardwork]

18. It's called the "straw man" fallacy

You've got it exactly. Rush builds a straw man of lies based on a germ of truth. Then he proceeds to knock down the straw man. Meanwhile, the real facts get ignored.

[ComerPerro]

19. Yeah but he does it better. I hate to call it "straw man"

because he has almost turned it into a new breed, almost an art form.

[yardwork]

20. Rove is brilliant - evil but brilliant. Rush is one of Rove's puppets

[ComerPerro]

22. I wouldn't call him a Rove puppet. Rush has been doing the same shit

for years. And he has been doing that well.


Its just hilarious now, because rather than being the "voice of dissent and reason" that he and his followers liked to pretend he was in the '90s, he is now exposed for what he is: a pathetic sycophant.

I wonder if that ever bothers him a little. He was once a force to be reckoned with by "the establishment", now hes just a pathetic shill.

Hasn't seemed to bother his listeners any.

[lebkuchen]

21. The real facts get ignored because everyone is so busy engaging

in the false premise and lies supporting it.

I listen to Rush and I figure I'm no better off spending my time engaging Rush than I would be engaging the sandwich-boarded Bible-wielding maniac on Powell and Market. The maniac will, no doubt, attract a following, but the group will not expand beyond those who hold the maniac's views to begin with. He will not win any new converts, and nor has Rush.

[ComerPerro]

23. Its not Rush's job to get new converts

He just has to hold down the fort, make sure that the blind faithful never open their eyes.

[lebkuchen]

26. He's not even holding down the fort. He's losing listeners. Lots of 'em.

That's because his comments lately have ventured far beyond the realm of the usually ludicrous, to the point that his fans are becoming embarrassed to be associated.

Soon, sponsors will follow.

[EST]

28. Brilliant deconstruction.

[lebkuchen]

31. Limbaugh probably searches his name on this site five times a day

tantamount to facing Mecca, but for self-worship.

This is my way of "calling in." Limbaugh no longer mentions liberal websites by name on-air because he knows he's only undermining his existence in doing so.

Rush, here's some bedtime reading, courtesy of our Armed Forces and those who support them.

***************************************************

Too much Fox? You decide

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=23623&archive=true


Too much FOX News

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=23371&archive=true


Can Fox News be trusted?

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=22420&archive=true


Take Limbaugh off AFN; Mission real national tragedy—Nov. 28, 2003

http://www.stripesonline.com/article.asp?section=125&article=18798&archive=true

Will Limbaugh change?; Remove Limbaugh show—Nov. 27, 2003

http://www.stripesonline.com/article.asp?section=125&article=18797&archive=true

[EST]

34. Thank you. That was refreshing.

And the chickenhawk mafia went on, stole the election, and proved again and again that not all regulations are bad, contrary to the aforementioned C.M.

[Fire Walk With Me]

36. Wonder if anyone can challenge him legally about all of the lies.

In a perfect world... Or even a reasonably sane one...