ABC: RCC in a dither how to deal with vegged out pope...

[karlschneider]

apparently they have no mechanism to address the dilemma. Hmmmm.

[Richardo]

1. That tears it - I'm voting for the new GD rules....

...at least provide a link if you're going to post such a provocative subject line.

[chaumont58]

2. Where should he put it?

DU lounge? Is there a rumor section? Regarding the pope, that poor bastard should have been allowed to retire long ago, but it seems to the Catholic Church has no retirement plan for ex-Popes. Are they all supposed to die in office? He looks pitiful at times.

[Richardo]

4. I don't care if it's in GD, just provide a $#^#$%&#$ link...

...and make a comment. Show some evidence of some thought. It's flame-bait, IMO (and here I am reacting to it.)

[karlschneider]

3. I don't know how to link to live television. Can you enlighten me?

:eyes:

[sandnsea]

10. They reported on the 'vegged out Pope'?

And why would you post it? Do you care? Or is it just an opportunity to disparage a religion you don't like?

[karlschneider]

18. I never said I "didn't like it", however since you ask, I actually do, as

I dislike ALL religions. None have ever produced a scintilla of actual benefit to any society. It is also clear that the RCC enjoys a disproportinate share of political power, however...its HQ being recognized as a virtual sovereign state. I object to that. As is my
right.

[sandnsea]

22. So the point of the post...

is to disparage the Pope and Catholicism. Just for fun, just for kicks. Produce another long string of vitriol on DU. How tolerant of you.

[Name removed]

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[Richardo]

57. Um - the Vatican *IS* a sovereign state.

Object all you want. I don't like that Luxembourg is a sovereign state either, but whaddaya gonna do? :-)

[blondeatlast]

55. It wouldn't take so much effort,

since you are already on the Net, fukissakes, to Google a related story with a handy link.

Most of us know how you feel, Karl, and I generally pass up your postings with nary a thought.

But what many (by no means all) of the non-believers on DU fail to realize is that those of us who believe in some form of deity, whomever/whatever that deity is, find our faith to be an essential part of who we are. Much as your hatred of religion is really very much a part of you. I don't mean that disrespectfully--you have your "beliefs," that's fine by me. I don't care if you post about them; 90% of the time I ignore you anyway. You're entitled.

But attacking a person's beliefs, or what structures their beliefs, can, in fact, be viewed as a personal attack. Who I am, to some degree, is based on my belief and I take it very personally, to the heart, almost. It's almost as if you are attacking me because of the language I speak (not an inherited, but instead, cultural, construct).

You seem to be intelligent, even if you tend to react too quickly. Given that, it surprises me that you seem unable (as do many on DU) to separate those of us who keep our faith very close to us from those who feel the need to shout it to your faces in a ridiculous effort to "save" you. I don't feel that my simple belief "saved" me, I'm not sure I've been "saved," or even if I want to be (if it is the extreme fundamental definition, I'll stay with you non-theists, TYVM).

Instead, my faith is a way of understanding the world, a source of inner strength and peace, and, I'll say it, a "crutch" in tough times. Maybe there is no "there" there, but I believe it is "there," and it helps me keep on keepin' on.

I don't hate you. I don't like you, either, but I'm glad you're here to challenge me. Just try to be a little wiser about it; a simple link would have helped your point along tremendously (and would have prevented the thread from going so far astray, too).

FWIW, I'm no fan of the Pope, either. But a teensy bit of civility, or, dare I say it, respect, is in order here.

[sandnsea]

5. I agree

I thought the new rules were a bit extreme too. But it's tough to see how this post would actually encourage anything but a nasty thread. I would think anybody who had respect for the Pope probably wouldn't call him 'vegged' out.

[VelmaD]

6. In defense of the poster...

this was just reported on World News Tonight on ABC (he did note it was ABC in the thread title).

[Richardo]

9. If they used the term "vegged out" I will apologize

Didn't think so

[VelmaD]

11. I never said anyone needed to apologize...

only pointed out that the poster was refering to an honest-to-goodness news story.

[Padraig18]

7. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

"Vegged out"??? :wtf: Have some respect, will you! Some of us here ARE Catholics! :wtf:

[JohnKleeb]

20. Its annoying isnt it

[Padraig18]

30. Quite!

[JohnKleeb]

31. It just sucks

We do have some who defend the church. Rather be a liberal Catholic than a fundy :).

[Padraig18]

33. It will be a very sad day for many of us

The love that the VAST majority of Roman Catholics worldwide have for John Paul II is both genuine and deep; the admiration and respect in which we hold him will make his death a crushing blow.

He has fought since his teenage years for freedom and justice for ALL men, first against the Nazis, then against the Communists and ALWAYS for the ordinary people who comprise this world. He is a man, which all too many forget, and like all mortals, he has his faults and weaknesses. "Judge not, lest you yourself be judged."

He and Nelson Mandela are the two people I most admire in this world, and I shall weep bitterly at both their deaths. He is the only Pope I have ever known. May God watch over him and comfort him, now and forever more.

[VelmaD]

39. I notice you said "freedom and justice for ALL men.."

as a woman don't expect me to cry too much when he's gone.

He may be the only Pope you've ever known but some of us remember a time when the Catholic church was moving in a more progressive direction rather than the conservative re-entrenchment it has seen under John Paul II.

[Padraig18]

44. Please, VelmaD, don't misunderstand me

I don't agree with everything he's done, and in fact I personally believe in the ordination of women, etc. . I have no doubt that he loves us, even those of us who disagree with him, and I am horribly sad to see any human being so diminished by physical infirmity.

[VelmaD]

45. we're gonna have to agree to disagree...

because I do not believe for one moment that he loves me. He has rarely acted as if he does. And I'm pretty sure that as a woman he does not respect me and that means much more to me than love.

I'm sorry that he is suffering. But that doesn't mean I'm going to forget why I don't like him.

[Padraig18]

47. I can live with that

:hug:

[VelmaD]

51. It's moments like this that make me feel better...

about this board. Most of us can disagree without becoming disagreeable. Thanks. :hug:

[Padraig18]

52. NP

:)

[Dookus]

48. and as a gay man...

I don't feel he loves me any better.

I respect what he's done and his work for peace. But I think ANY Pope has the power, with one letter, to radically change the world for the better by allowing the use of birth control and calling for responsible family planning. Any Pope that refuses to do that, in my opinion, is perpetuating the number one cause of poverty and deprivation in the world.

[Andy_Stephenson]

54. As a Gay man

I won't cry too much either.

[JohnKleeb]

40. I admire him more knowing that he fought the Nazis

I think he is very respectable.

[Name removed]

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[JohnKleeb]

41. Yeah you get used to it unfortunely though

There was one time where there was a poll
Whos worse the catholic church or fundies?
it got deleted thank god,

[Dookus]

8. two seconds on Yahoo...

and I found this

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030930/ap_on_re_eu/vatican_pope_3

I agree with the other posters that the title and content of the original message aren't conducive to respectful discussion.

[Name removed]

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[anti_shrub]

13. Well

The Pope is the head of a major religion, while Bush is the head of the people in his Lego City he builds while Cheney and Rove run the country.

There's a subtle difference.

[VelmaD]

16. Actually the pope is also a Head of State

as well.

And chimpy thinks he talks to god. ;-)

[anti_shrub]

26. There's a question

Who's going to run the Vatican while the Pope is alive but infirmed? Sure it's the tiniest nation in the world but you'd think they'd have some version of the 25th amendment when we have an incapacitated President.

[Dookus]

43. it's my understanding...

that the pope has a council of senior aides and cardinals who would likely take over the day-to-day issues.

Traditionally, Pope's don't resign. They die in office. And this Pope has said in the past that he won't resign.

Alas, his health is deteriorating, quickly, it seems, so it may not be a big issue for any serious length of time.

[Padraig18]

15. You overlook one SMALL detail

His Holiness has more decency in the tip of his little finger than * has in his whole body! :grr: right back at you!

[karlschneider]

23. Please point out where I proposed the pope had little or no decency.

Thank you.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

17. Actually if Bush were on his death bed..I might wince a bit

and then call him vegged out. But if you are content to alienate Catholic DU'ers so that you can be yourself..then by all means be yourself...just remember Mark Twain once said, "Be yourself is about the WORST advice you can give to some people"

[Richardo]

58. Thanks for the Mark Twain, NSMA...

Always appreciated... :-)

[Dookus]

19. I said exactly what I meant...

and not as a mod.

And btw, "stuff it" and "fukin hypocrites" are personal attacks, and are against the rules.

You may be surprised to learn that I agree with you about religion. But I can still maintain some level of respect when discussing it.

[karlschneider]

21. Excuse me, but "stuff it" is not an attack, it is a suggestion, and the

reference to 'hypocrites' was not directed to any particular person.
You may not like what I say, but I am precise. IMO. (I assume opinions are still allowed in responses.)

[Dookus]

25. Still not understanding...

the anger.

As I said, I agree with you essentially. I feel your title is not conducive to respectful discussion.

I'd be surprised if you feel it IS conducive to respectful discussion. I presume we agree on that, too.

I think you didn't intend to have a respectful discussion.

[Karenina]

34. Hey Karl...

You are no Dummkopf and I'm certain you were giggling when you typed in the thread title, KNOWING it would jerk a few chains. Your communication style gives me no offense as I understand from whence it comes. But for the sake of peace in our DU living room, CAN YOU FUCKING KNOCK IT OFF FOR A SECOND DUDE? ;-)
Your words were inconsiderate and hurtful to some. C'mon. WOIK WIT ME HEAH. There's no reason to bait our compatriots when the head of their church is dying. That's just mean. :spank:

[blondeatlast]

49. SOP in the God wars.

[alcuno]

24. Your comment was not politically incorrect but rather callous.

There are those of us who are Catholics and who have a great affection for the Holy Father. Obviously, he is more ill than he has been in the past and decisions will have to be made about what to do. Remember, it was just last Spring that John Paul II was aggressively challenging the * administration's rush to war. He even said to us that if you go to war in Iraq, you go without God. Those are the words of a man who was well able to do his job.

He has taken a turn for the worse after surviving a gunshot wound that almost killed him and living with Parkinson's disease. I don't think he's vegged out, but in ill health. The question is what is the state of his mind, not his body. Time will tell.

[Padraig18]

27. Thank you!

And by all accounts, his MIND is as good as it ever was, but trapped in an increasingly frail body. :(

[HereSince1628]

42. This only demonstrates the problem with rules like that suggest its ok

to use strong rhetoric against policies or organizations that "we" oppose. Better a uniform rule that always seeks respectful discussion, regardless of who or what it is about.

[revcarol]

14. Dying from Parkinson's is a terrible death.

I watched my husband suffer for years.And,with some, your mind stays alert so that you know what is happening as everything else diintegrates. My prayers are with him.

Still, he could have called a convocation and resigned from ill health, and they could have chosen another Pope. The Catholic Church can't figure this out? PULEEZ, there are some machinations going on that required him to keep his office longer or else he won't give up. He just appointed a bunch more conservative bishops last week. Maybe he was determined to stick around until they were installed.

And yes, vegged out is disrespectful, although I have a hard time respecting this Pope who turned everything around from John Paul and has been terrible for Catholic women.

[Clete]

46. Thanks for pointing out that this Pope has taken the

Church back into the fourteenth century. No matter how holy he may or may not be, he is very conservative and people have to realize this truth. My father died of Parkinson's disease so I know he must suffer greatly on a daily basis. I am sure that most of his duties are performed by others in the Vatican. He is really no more than a figurehead at this time and date, but maybe it is time for him to retire. I don't know of any church canon that says he can't.

[Dookus]

50. I don't think it...

canon as much as tradition. Also, this Pope has said in the past that he will not resign.

[goobergunch]

28. This thread has gotten completely off topic... (n/t)

[sandnsea]

29. WHAT topic????

That's the whole point. What the hell was the topic???

[goobergunch]

35. I THINK the topic was

the ABC News story about how the Vatican has no procedure to implement if the Pope is incapacitated, which has a decent chance of happening.

[sandnsea]

38. Ooooh

Yes I think the poster really wanted to discuss that since they've done such a marvelous job at bringing that point into the thread.

:eyes:

[blondeatlast]

56. HAH! Well put!

(dissolves into laughter)

[karlschneider]

53. See:

http://www.jokes.nu/joke-2189.shtml

[Name removed]

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