CNN Bush to portray Iraq in context of long wars like WW2

[brettdale]

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/21/bush.iraq/

Aides say Bush will attempt to portray the Iraq conflict in the context of long wars like World War II.

[Dynasty_At_Passes]

1. He's screwed himself over then....

Already shot themselves in the foot with the 9/11 bit, and the 9/11 truth movement is coming out.....

Invoking WWII will just bury them all! :crazy:

[Hubert Flottz]

12. Prescott Bush figures in WW II

Maybe we can air all that out bigtime, when the WWII dog and pony show starts...

Trading With The Enemy

snip

Hitler's Ladder to Power

Adolf Hitler became Chancellor of Germany January 30, 1933, and absolute dictator in March 1933, after two years of expensive and violent lobbying and electioneering. Two affiliates of the Bush-Harriman organization played great parts in this criminal undertaking: Thyssen's German Steel Trust; and the Hamburg-Amerika Line and several of its executives...more...

http://www.tarpley.net/bush2.htm

snip

How important was the Nazi enterprise for which President Bush's father was the New York banker?

The 1942 U.S. government investigative report said that Bush's Nazi-front bank was an interlocking concern with the Vereinigte Stahlwerke (United Steel Works Corporation or German Steel Trust) led by Fritz Thyssen and his two brothers. After the war, Congressional investigators probed the Thyssen interests, Union Banking Corp. and related Nazi units. The investigation showed that the Vereinigte Stahlwerke had produced the following approximate proportions of total German national output:

50.8% of Nazi Germany's pig iron
41.4% of Nazi Germany's universal plate
36.0% of Nazi Germany's heavy plate
38.5% of Nazi Germany's galvanized sheet
45.5% of Nazi Germany's pipes and tubes
22.1% of Nazi Germany's wire
35.0% of Nazi Germany's explosives.

Prescott Bush became vice president of W.A. Harriman & Co. in 1926. That same year, a friend of Harriman and Bush set up a giant new organization for their client Fritz Thyssen, prime sponsor of politician Adolf Hitler. The new German Steel Trust, Germany's largest industrial corporation, was organized in 1926 by Wall Street banker Clarence Dillon. Dillon was the old comrade of Prescott Bush's father Sam Bush from the `` Merchants of Death '' bureau in World War I. more...

http://www.tarpley.net/bush2.htm

[geomon666]

20. Exactly

He'll make money off of this war just like his granddaddy did in WW2.

[Hubert Flottz]

23. If you go and read the stuff on that website I posted above...

if you haven't already, you'll see that the Bush family has made money off of poor and suffering Americans misfortune for over a hundred years. It's how Prescott got into congress and got GHW bush in office. Blood money has been and still is, their ladder to power.

[tk2kewl]

24. not to mention if Pearl Harbor = 9/11 and WWII = WOT, then

the war should be over an won by now. More time has past from 9/11 to now than from Pearl Harbor to the end of WWII

[jsamuel]

2. That's funny, I thought he said this would be a in and out kind of war...

huh, go figure...

[Fire Walk With Me]

19. And that it would only cost $40 billion. THEN he said, we will spend

what we have to.

[punpirate]

3. Well, that's helpful...

... US direct involvement in WWII extended to three years, nine months. The Iraq invasion and occupation now extends to two years, five months (and, actually, three years, if one calculates in the bombing of Iraq which preceded the Congressional resolution unbeknownst to the public).

So, if the Iraq invasion is like WWII, where's that 91% top tax rate on the wealthy, and an estate tax to help pay for the war, and the 80% war profiteering tax, and a draft which did not protect the children of the wealthy and powerful, not to mention gas rationing and war bond drives?

[Dynasty_At_Passes]

4. Nah that's not what the AEI was talking about.....

They were talking about the comparison to Germany's war in Europe, only longer.

That's if the terrorists get their way. We'll have to force them to get out of Iraq, and get every other soldier home.

[wli]

6. the AEI are fascists, nothing they say is credible

The AEI should in fact be indicted as a terrorist organization and all their members made to stand trial in the Hague for war crimes and crimes against humanity along with PNAC, CNP, CSP, and the entire Bushler regime. Particularly Michael Ledeen.

There are no excuses acceptable. This is not the time for tolerance. It is over. This scum must be ejected from our country, and our country reformed to ensure this kind of fascist break can never happen again. Germany is not an appropriate example; Interpol was founded by an SS officer, who furthermore lead the German police before then, and various forms of Nazi heritage were allowed to propagate to the US and other countries as well as persisting within Germany itself (c.f. I.G. Farben not being dissolved until 2003).

Every single fascist must be rooted out of this country and put into prison for war crimes and crimes against humanity. The ideology is in fact the crime. There is no escaping it. There is no room for tolerance of it. There is no quarter we can afford to give them. If any are allowed to roam free they will conspire to overthrow the country again.

The fascists must be aggressively searched for and prosecuted. Neither we nor the world can afford to give freerepublic.com, George W. Bush, Rush Limbaugh, or similar hate criminals any amnesty whatsoever. They must be confined and isolated and their entire impact on society hyperaggressively removed and hyperaggressively erased for all time. Vigilance must be established in perpetuity to ensure fascists can never walk free or exert any influence on society whatsoever ever again. There is no choice, lest another fascist break occur.

Bushler and Cheney and Rummy talk about a "terrorist ideology" being the target of their genocidal mania. But they are in fact the terrorists, and it is in fact their own fascist ideology which is a threat to the whole of humanity so grave it cannot be exaggerated. Their tactics are completely inadmissible and are criminal acts from their inception, if not their conception. The entire fascist ideology is in fact criminal and can never be allowed to exist in any sense whatsoever. Law and order must be maintained throughout, and their prosecution carried out through strictly legal means, lest we degenerate to their level. The FBI, military police, and peace officers (e.g. local police) must be the ones called upon by a non-corrupt executive (once installed through legitimate election procedures, unlike the Diebold/ES&S/Sequoia shams of today) to arrest and incarcerate these incredibly dangerous criminals.

It would be a crime against humanity to ape the fascists' own tactics. Humane solutions to this ideological crisis must be devised in order to completely eradicate fascism and the fascists for all time. Structures must be erected to completely eradicate the right wing and accomplish the total elimination of fascism. Aggressive education and the criminalization of fascist ideology are practical necessities. Economic restructuring is likewise necessary to eliminate the fascists, in particular the seizure of all concentrations of wealth held by fascists (likely best put to use for reparations to the victims of the war crimes and crimes against humanity they've committed). Much more than this must be done, but there are legal and ethical considerations so deep I'm not competent to address them.

[Dynasty_At_Passes]

10. You are sorely correct and it must be done.

However, the breaking apart of the AEI and its Likud moles will take years. To prosecute them all we will have a long road ahead. It will be very hard to stamp out this kind of zionism rationale forever, but it will start with putting Michael Ledeen to the Hague.

It started with throwing Larry Franklin, and his conspiring fascists into prison for treason espionage. We must get them all, and throw Richard Cheney to the wolves. Not one bit of sympathy for them, and a open prison for all the enablers of their spy networks.

Its no different than treating a terrorist organization, just like Osama Bin Laden.

[wli]

11. Wiesenthal worked for decades to accomplish this

Our burden will be to carry out a similar pursuit.

[davekriss]

17. wli, you would criminalize thoughts?

While I consider myself left of the left here on this site (my political compass score was something like -9.5/-9.5), I would not do that. Professed public thoughts may be grounds for hieghtened observation, but only when they act on these thoughts -- and the actions are illegal and immoral -- should they be arrested.

[wli]

18. it's not entirely clear how to go about it

But basically fascism does need to be met immediately and aggressively wherever and whenever it arises. It's probably too despotic to treat it as badly as an ordinary crime like e.g. assault or robbery, but there does need to be some kind of official response and official method of preventing it from spreading or acquiring any influence on the public whatsoever.

This is where the "panel of ethicists" and similar comes in. I can't come up with any kind of satisfactory method of going about this without it being despotic. So that sort of advice is needed to devise a harm-minimizing, minimally-despotic, etc. strategy for official police action against fascist ideology.

[davekriss]

21. Forget the 'official police action'

Note my avatar. Just say no. And be willing to die for it. Nonviolent civil disobedience continuously applied: Kinda' like braces on the crroked teeth of the body politic. Eventually it is straightened out.

[wli]

22. I'm discussing what to do once the govt. is back under control

The kind of fascist break that happened with the Bush regime can never be allowed to happen again.

My "proposed remedies," if they can be called such, are attempts at proposing measures to prevent fascism from ever rising again.

[wli]

5. there is only one credible interpretation in the context of WWII

And that interpretation is Bush as the modern counterpart of Hitler.

Zero tolerance, no quarter, no amnesty, never forgetting, and never forgetting are more than just self-interest or partisan politics. They are our duty to our own country, its contituation, its founding fathers, and the world. Our duty is not fulfilled until such time as every war criminal and criminal against humanity from the Republican Party, the neocon cabal, and the US MSM is on trial in the Hague for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

7. World War II? 9/11? ChimpCo can do better than that

I was looking forward to some catchy and trendy slogans from ChimpCo to sell a new and improved war product to the American war consumer. O'Reilly has even bought a new turbo-charged dildo and is ready to spin some good yarns on the air. What's the matter with ChimpCo?

[radfringe]

8. WW-2 didn't take 26 months of "selling" it to Joe Public

26 months into the Iraq Invasion and bush still has to "sell it to the public" -- that in itself should have blatherheads on spews shows sitting up to take notice...

Big difference between conventional wars and Iraq -- in conventional wars you have targets - such as specific cities, or military/strategic installations. In Iraq - there are neither - just seemingly random insurgent attacks that do not show up on radar or a map.

In conventional wars - you can plot progress on a map as one side or the other takes control over territory. In Iraq - there are no such places where you can stick a pin. Yes, you can put a pin in a city or area, but the minute troops pull out - you also have to pull the pin out too.

In conventional wars - you have a leader or leaders, who once captured or killed, will cause the war to cease. There are no such identifiable leaders in Iraq. Yes, we do have a "list" (or scorecard) of names - but capture or kill one of them and another takes his place.

Conventional wars are about occupying territory and/or controlling resources. Iraq is about beliefs and ideas. Stalin once said "We don't allow our enemies to have guns, why should we allow them to have ideas?" Stalin knew IDEAS were just as or more dangerous than guns.

[liberalla]

9. WW2 ? ...or maybe you mean a long war like VietNam???

WW2? ...or maybe you mean a long war like VietNam???

I hope some reporter asks that question.
This "long wars" comparison should backfire big time.

[Walt Starr]

13. Hmmmm, December 7, 1941 - August 15, 1945 = 3 years, 8 months, 8 days

That would buy him some time if you go with March 19, 2003 as the start date. Basically, he'd have until November 27, 2006 to match it.

Unfortunately for his dumb ass he claims it started on September 11, 2001 which puts this current war at 3 years, 11 months, 11 days.

I'd say it's more along the lines of a REALLY LONG war in U. S. history, Vietnam. Vietnam started on August 2, 1964 when the Maddox was fired upon by two Vietnamese torpedo boats in the Gulf of Tonkin (sort of). It really started in 1957 and ended after our pullout in 1975 but U.S. tropps were committed from 1965 until 1972.

Nope, timeline of the Iraq quagmire is more in tune with Vietnam. The parallels are too numerous to ignore.

[liberalla]

14. Yep! We agree!

That's why I think the "long wars" comparison will backfire on them. They hate for people to compare Iraq to Vietnam, but this time they are doing it themselves! Putting Iraq in the category of a "long war", such as previous wars fought by the United States opens the door and BEGS for Vietnam to be mentioned and compared!

As I said in my post above, I hope he gets some questions on Vietnam.
um, uh, stutter, stutter, stutter...


Quagmire Accomplished!


Way to GO!!! NOT.

[NoPasaran]

15. Bush's Blitzkrieg

Turning into a long, unwinnable struggle against an insurgency. Kind of like Yugoslavia.

[Solly Mack]

16. Well, if you compare Germany's claim that Poland invaded first

(as an excuse to invade Poland) to Bush trying to blame Iraq for the WTC attacks as an excuse to invade Iraq, then it makes sense.

but only in those terms...