Woohoo! The new Pollkatz graph is up (36%). Ain't it BEAUTIFUL!!

[Brotherjohn]

I'm betting within days, the ARG poll will be followed up by 2 or 3 more in the 30s. Bush's numbers are FINALLY approaching his actual approval rating (the "30-Percenters" who will always go along with anything he says).

Perhaps the long brainwash of paranoia, fear, and blind loyalty that began with 9-11 is finally coming to an end!


http://pollkatz.homestead.com/

[BlueEyedSon]

1. kick & recommended

[Maraya1969]

2. Has any President had lower numbers? Remember Clinton's

ratings were very high right in the midst of the Ken Star witch trials.

[MisterP]

20. they were actually higher for his last 3 years than Ray-Gun's

("the Most Popular President's" rating drop was due to Iran-Contra)

[alarcojon]

31. Here's Clinton

Note the dearth of ratings below 50% (and those ALL seem to be outliers) and compare to Bush.

[Autonomy]

41. I believe LBJ had numbers in the low 30s in '68

just before he decided not to run for reelection.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

3. DIVE DIVE DIVE!!

Here he comes 30% it won't be long now! LOL

[Arugula Latte]

9. I first thought: "Down! Down! Down!"

From that B-52s song, "Rock Lobster."

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

12. That's what we used to shout at our pilots.

When we were freezing our asses off in the cold rain waiting for them to land to be fueled by we peasants. The CO took it amiss and issued an order that enlisted pukes were no longer to shout epithets at our planes.

[PunkPop]

4. Might have to add another row to the bottom soon.

[SoCalDem]

5. Reminds me of this one I found last year:)

[Brotherjohn]

6. LOL! That's GREAT!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Brotherjohn]

7. Dupe. PLEASE IGNORE. (nt)

[lonestarnot]

8. LOL

[La Coliniere]

10. I Love It! LOL

[eyepaddle]

15. I have to reply to this so I can find it later!

Great graphic! :D

[SoCalDem]

17. We need a photoshop person to update it

and "name" the ship..a bit more definition of the vessel would help too...

SS Crawford Cretin
SS Scaredy Cat
SS ChickenHawk of the Sea

[SaveAmerica]

39. SS Coward O'Crawford

[CrispyQ]

45. SS ChickenHawk of the Sea

OMG! That is priceless!


:rofl:

[Roy]

59. don't forget 'mission accomplished' banner

nt

[Algorem]

35. The Bushtanic,doomed ship of fools.

Hit an Iraqberg?And a giant gaspricespike?

[stevedeshazer]

36. BWAHAHAA! Oh God, I'm just dying here...

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

[DemonFighterLives]

11. Damn, he's surpassing my expectations

I liked the name Mr 37 percent, but may have to pick a name lower.
Mr.twenty-nine maybe. 33 1/3 sounds too friendly.

[trekbiker]

13. kicked

[Skidmore]

14. President Outliar!!!

[Brotherjohn]

25. Good one! On a related (?) note, while the ARG poll was an outlier...

... in a few early polls, it has been pretty much in the middle of the pack for the last year or two.

Like I say in the post above, I'd bet in a few days, 2-3 more polls come out in the same ballpark.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. my god the countrry might finally be awking up

[stevedeshazer]

37. AWK!!

:)

[Surya Gayatri]

18. Kicked

And just love that graphic from SoCalDem in post #5. (((((LOL))))))

[Duer 157099]

19. Rove's looking at that, thinking:

"hmmmmm... let us analyze what caused those few spikes we see... let's see, there's:

Sept 2001
March 2003
Dec 2003
Nov 2004

"which of those cases can we try to duplicate... hmmmm..."

[Brotherjohn]

24. Take your pick, actually. He might be inclined to try any of them.

Sept 2001 - Huge boost from terror attacks of 9-11. I somehow doubt, however, that another terrorist attack at this time would do anything but convince the American people that Bush has NOT made us safer.

March 2003 - Iraq War. "Pat, could I have an "N"?" (as in IraN) But I don't think we'll be such sheep this time.

Dec 2003 - Capture of Hussein. Maybe they could capture Osama, or Zarqawi, or whatever other flavor-of-the-day terrorist becomes Public Enemy No. 1. But short of Osama himself, I don't think any capture would give them a boost (maybe they have him on ice somewhere).

Nov 2004 - Election. I think the only reason he bumped above 50 here (though one could hardly call it a bump) was that they were relentlessly attacking the "other guy" (Kerry). But now, when the "other guy" is a Gold Star mom, it gets a little dicier.

If this is the best they've got left, they've run out of ammo. And their tricks, or events happening beyond their control (whichiver brand of hat you like to wear :tinfoilhat:), have worked less and less every time, as the graphic clearly shows.

In any case, in a few months, Rove will be inclined to save any tricks up his sleeve for getting a new pack of cigs. Or to prevent himself from becoming his new cellmate's "trick" (tricks for tricks?).

[Duer 157099]

26. The Nov 2004 bump

I think was due to people jumping on the winning bandwagon, and this occured post election.

This was also what I witnessed with bumper stickers -- they were put on AFTER the election.

[Brotherjohn]

33. I agree he may have gotten a little "mini-bump" immediately post-...

... election (2-3 points). But if you look at his peak numbers, they're right at the beginning of November (other than a single Gallup number a few weeks later).

His average poll rating was about in the mid 40s in May, and it steadily rose until the beginning of November (about 50). Not much, but enough to eke out a victory (or make the dubious results look believeable... take your pick). Most of this increase occurred before the election, and I think it was simply due to dirty politics. Since shortly after the election, he's been on a pretty steady (and comparable) decline.

That is, umm, until now. I don't think the last point (ARG) is an outlier. It's the first poll (other than one Gallup) in weeks, and I think it'll be backed up by others shortly.

[stevietheman]

49. I already plan to hammer up "Blame Bush" signs on telephone poles...

if there's another terrorist incident on a 9/11 scale or greater. They'll have to arrest me or kill me to stop me.

[TexasProgresive]

57. Please don't-

Use shrink wrap or tape but no nails or tacks on the poles. When your poster rots off the nails remain and they cause so serious accidents to utility workers using climbers. When the gaff hits a nail or tack they cut out causing the worker to fall. I don't climb anymore but I cring whenever I see these posters for lost dogs or whatever.

[stevietheman]

65. OK.... I'll use tape. Easier to work with anyway. :) n/t

n/t

[Duer 157099]

66. Is this it?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1723571

Ok, is this what we're waiting for to raise the Titanic?

[hnsez]

21. With those #'s, The country will blame him if there is another attack

[berni_mccoy]

22. If that were a STOCK, I'd be SHORTING it HEAVY

That's gonna hit bottom within the week!!!

Wait till the Abu Gharab photos are released followed by the MASSIVE IMPEACHMENT MARCH ON DC next month!!!

The only thing that worries me is he's actually LOWER than pre-911, he's on vacation (just like pre-911) and they are beating the war drums to go to Iran...

[littleraf]

48. You're right berni. We better all watch out!

The only other time Bush's numbers have been this low was Sept 10th. I won't go so far as to say he planned 9-11 but he definitely left us wide open for it. And when you consider how all the Bush-bots were bitching during the 04 election that a terrorist attack would get people's minds off the economy and Iraq and back onto the "real" issue, how much we need Bush to "protect" us, then you see a desperate group that looks to Al Qaida to help them change the dismal daily headlines.
Bush and his supporters see themselves as under siege and the worst part for them is that all this is happening at a time that they've been winning! Gas prices are out of control,so much so that even the experienced right-wing propagandists like Hannity, Rush and O'Reilly won't talk about it, the economy's in a tailspin, including their vaunted real estate bubble (new home sales are down!) the war in Iraq is officially a quagmire, and GOP'ers are jumping off the neocon bandwagon to save their political futures (ie Frist, Hagel and Santorum). To save himself from the Fitzgerald probe and the impeachemnt that would surely follow Bush needs something BIG to distract the public and regain public support. The bigger the terrorist attack the distraction and the easier it would be for him to deflect any talk of indictments and impeachment.

[BlueJac]

23. Falling Like a Rock

:woohoo:

[ooglymoogly]

27. awsome...kick n nom

[catmandu57]

28. As much as I love seeing this

I gotta tell you it scares the living shit out of me, we are entering into some of the darkest and most dangerous time we as a nation have ever faced.
Putting aside the wars, we are under the thumb of madmen who will stop at nothing to stay where they are.
Keep your eyes and ears wide the fuck open.

[mshasta]

38. they are getting ready for ...

something huge.....


http://judicial-inc.biz/Nuclear_attacks_on_america.htm

[newyawker99]

44. Hi mshasta!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[JustSayNO 2 Sheeples]

70. My thoughts exactly, Catmandu....

I've been around for half a Century and to say that there haven't been very "scary" times for our country is untrue. I remember having the possibility of a commie Nuke attack seeming to be inevitable for the young boy I was. I remember feeling, after my brother was killed in Vietnam, that our country would never survive that war. I remember the Nixon era, when I thought that HE was the worst thing that could ever possibly happen to my beloved America.

But all of that pales in comparison to the lunacy that we face today. This time, I am very afraid. I have sat and watched the Admin intertwine itself within the religious right to the point where I honestly believe that in the near future, if you don't tout not only the party line AND the moral majority line, you might just face prison or banishment. What better flock is there than a bunch of Religious zealots who can be blindly led by a madman who's sole goal is to make him and his puppet-masters richer simply by playing the old "R card". And I ain't talkin' R as in Race.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

[LisaLynne]

29. They're going to have to add ...

the 20's pretty soon ... :evilgrin:

[sakabatou]

30. Other than 9-11, what happened during the other three spikes?

[alarcojon]

32. Start of Iraq war, "Mission Acccomplished"

for two of them if I remember correctly.

[Brotherjohn]

34. 9-11, Iraq War began, Saddam captured, and the time leading up to...

... and immediately after the election.

Though I wouldn't really call the last one a "spike". Treading water is more like it.

He used a Swift Boat as a life preserver (literally and figuratively).

[Catfight]

40. Watch this...the higher the gas prices, the lower Bush's approval. nt

[txindy]

42. Those number in November 2004 are so very telling

As if those are the numbers of a man who would be re-elected - by ANYONE.

Load. Of. Bull.

[David Zephyr]

43. ARG's Little Blue Diamond Seems to Get the Trend Right Before the Others.

Two observations:

1.) Looking at the chart it appears that ARG's little blue diamond seems to be pretty consistent in running ahead of the other polling organizations in registering public opinion trends with regards to Bush's performance.

2.) Notice how Fox's little lime green diamond almost always registers the highest numbers for Bush in contrast with all of the others. Wonder why that is, Jethro?

[Al-CIAda]

46. Shorting Bu$hco all the way down. -nt

[Peace Patriot]

47. The Bush Cartel now controls the central vote tabulators throughout the

country, with SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code. Opinion polls no longer matter to them (and never much did matter to them, except as window dressing).

If this is any comfort, it means that they DON'T NEED another 9/11 to manipulate the population with. They now have direct control of the vote tabulation. But they do need a means to stop the antiwar movement, and I think this is how they plan to do it:

With their new control over the vote tabulation (in all elections--primaries and general), they will likely install a War Democrat in '08, to keep the hogfeast in the Middle East going, to take the rap for any blowback from the Iraq war and other atrocities, to put an even tighter squeeze on the poor in an effort to keep the U.S. from utter insolvency (we'll start hearing a lot about a "balanced budget" from the Dems), to get a Draft (yup--they need more cannon fodder, and only a War Dem can get this done), and perhaps to get us into Iran with some "Gulf of Tonkin" type incident. A big antiwar movement--bigger than we've ever seen--and possibly also food or gas riots (and/or "grannies in wheelchair riots" i.e., Soc Sec)--will rip the Dems to pieces and finish off the War Democrat in four years; then they'll put Jeb in (and the news monopolies will of course suffer acute memory loss about who started it all).

There is a certain horrible inevitability to this scenario--so much so that I hesitate even to lay it out. It's so discouraging! (--because it sounds so plausible and likely). *(See Note, below.)

There is one thing, and one thing only, that we can do about it, in my opinion: Throw these new election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor' (so to speak), and restore our right to vote, with...

Paper ballots hand-counted at the precinct level (--Canada does it in one day, but speed should not even be a consideration, only accuracy and verifiability)

or, at the least...

Paper ballot (not "paper trail") backup of all electronic voting, a 10% or better audit (automatic recount), strict security, and NO SECRET, PROPRIETARY PROGRAMMING CODE (...jeez!).

This is still doable at the local/state level, despite formidable local/state (and bipartisan) corruption in the electronic voting systems boondoggle.

We still have local/state power over election systems--and ordinary people still have some influence at the local/state level. As long as we have this local/state power, we still have a chance to save our democracy.

I do expect a move to federalize elections--directly or by devious means, such as Congressional funding mechanisms. The latter is how they got Diebold and ES&S in control of our elections, in the guise of "reform," during the 2002-2004 period, with the $4 billion HAVA bribe to the states. Entirely taking away our local/state control over election systems will likely be attempted in a similar way.

That's why this matter is very, very urgent. JOIN YOUR LOCAL ELECTION REFORM GROUP, or FORM YOUR OWN, now--and let's get this done!

For more info and action ideas, see the "DU 2004 Election Results and Discussion Forum":
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203

--------

I have noticed an astonishing trend in the issue polls for over a year now. I think they are even more interesting than Bush's approval polls.

For instance, 58% of the American people opposed the Iraq was FROM THE BEGINNING--*BEFORE* the invasion. Feb. '03. Before all the lies were exposed; before the full horror and costs of it were known. 58%!

Yet we had war anyway.

63% of the American people oppose torture UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. May '04.

Yet we had the designer of Bush's torture policy, Alberto Gonzales, installed as chief law enforcement officer of the U.S.!

You name it. The Iraq war. Torture. The deficit. Social Security. Women's rights. The American people overwhelmingly disapprove of EVERY MAJOR BUSH POLICY, foreign and domestic, way up in the 60% to 70% range. And this trend has been occurring for well over a year (from back before the Iraq war).

Yet we our getting these fascist polices shoved down our throats ANYWAY.

This is the context in which the 2004 election fraud evidence needs to be reviewed--and also the context in which the non-transparency and unverifiability of Diebold, ES&S, Sequoia and other Bushite company electronic voting systems needs to be seen.

You wonder how a president can govern, with these unprecedented, dismal approval ratings, and across the board, large majority opposition to all his regime's policies?

They control the vote tabulation.

You wonder how Bush could have won--despite a 60/40 Democratic blowout in new voter registration in 2004, and all the other evidence of a Kerry win?

They control the vote tabulation.

You wonder how they can be so confident about endless war profiteering opportunities, despite overwhelming opposition to unjust war?

They control the vote tabulation.

You wonder how they can ignore Cindy Sheehan?

They control the vote tabulation (and will be forcing a War Dem on us, to shut her and other millions up for a while).

You wonder how someone like John Kerry, who voted for the war, could have been nominated, or someone like Hillary Clinton, who voted for the war, could be touting herself as the next Dem candidate--despite huge, virtually unanimous opposition to the war in the Dem Party rank and file (85%? 90%?)?

They control the vote tabulation (and did so in the 2004 primaries, and will likely do so in the 2008 primaries, if we don't reform the election system).

Congressional '06 crystal ball? I think there will be great turmoil in the '06 by-elections, both over the war, and over the voting systems. And the outcome of those fights will be determined by citizen action between now and then, on election reform. It's possible that protests, lawsuits, publicity/exposes, and great unrest in the country, during the by-elections, will spur sufficient election reform to entirely change what happens in 2008, and open the possibility for the election of a real antiwar populist in the next presidential election.

I do have a great deal of faith in the progressive, justice-minded, patriotic, generous, not-easily scared, and not-easily-fooled--although tragically DISENFRANCHISED--American majority. I think we will prevail.

-------


(Note: There are some alternative, and more hopeful, scenarios for a Bush Cartel-installed War Democrat--dependent upon who that Democrat is. I thought there was a good possibility, in '04, for instance, that Kerry would at the least make good appointments, would not START any new wars, would provide some room for reform, at least to ease the burden on the poor and middle class, and might provide positive leadership, say, on alternative energy. These kinds of "centrist" measures could provide some relief, while deeper reforms were worked on--say, reducing the power of the news monopolies over our public airwaves, and getting the military budget thievery under some control. The threats to Iran, Syria, Venezuela and other counties might ease up, and diplomacy prevail. The rude awakening that the Bush Cartel has given the country--and especially the disenfranchised majority--might result in new citizen activism and a new vision of our future, which could eventually overcome Diebold and ES&S, and result in REAL representation of our interests in Washington DC.

(We may have no choice but to "vote" for a War Democrat the next time round, as in '04. I might do so myself, despite all. (I will never give up voting. Never!) The native honesty, integrity, intelligence and common sense of that person--and their innards, their heart, their courage--will be more important than what they actually say. Harder to judge, but, in that potential situation, vital. The parameters of political debate have been so narrowed, and the premises are often so false, that we really can't tell much any more from what they say. We have to guess at WHO they are, as best we can, and maybe by who they surround themselves with. Which one has some vestige of the peoples' interest in his/her heart? And, then, how to get them nominated and elected with Bushites controlling the vote tabulation?)

[gristy]

50. Thanks, man.

I will look for you in my dictionary under the definition of patriot.

[90-percent]

52. Yo, Peacey-P

Awesome thoughts, there!

Thanks!

-85%

[OrlandoGator]

51. 9/11: Best thing that ever happened to George W. Bush.

So fucking pathetic.

[jazzjunkysue]

53. Happy Days Are Here, Again! 36 little points! Woo Hooo! Man-date!

How's that for political capitol! Don't spend it all in one place, George.
:toast::bounce::party:

[Betsy Ross]

54. Kinda restores my faith

in America.

[ultraist]

55. That's beautiful! People are waking up!!!

"PEACE IS ON THE WAY!"

[Guaranteed]

56. It's great news, but from the graph

ARG seems to have a number of outliers, and they always tend to be on the low side.

Even so, this is really bad news for Bush.

[Brotherjohn]

61. Not really in the last year and a half (ARG outliers). They've been in...

... the pack.

Plus, as one post points out above, you could say ARG has often "anticipated" the trend.

In any case, their numbers have always mirrored the trend, even if you think they tend to be low. A 6 % drop in most polls now would put Bush into the 30s (if only just).

[Past_World_Doubt]

58. Will it continue to drop?

Was there ever even a legitimate, legal election?

[Brotherjohn]

60. UPDATE: Harris Poll now has Bush at 40% (5% drop).

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050824/nyw010.html?.v=23

If most other polls echo this (5-6% drop), there will be several polls in the 30s soon.

[DemocracyInaction]

62. Saw Wall Street Journal Poll (??) on Bloomberg this morning

Saw blurb which indicated Wall Street Journal and the approval rating of 40%. Don't know if they mean this is hot off the wires as a new WSJ poll--I assume so. BUT and this is the BIG BUT---it doesn't mean the people love the Dems. In fact, it was explained in one of these last polls that the only number lower than Bush's is the approval of the Democrats!! Bush's numbers are not going to win crap for us come '06 or '08. And if our "silent lambs" don't figure this out and soon, we are going to be utterly stunned as the republicans march on and on and over our faces.

[Brotherjohn]

63. I agree. They need to speak out forcefully AGAINST the war.

Take a chance! Show some backbone! If you voted for the IWR, say you made a mistake (for trusting GWB)! Take the inevitable heat from the Right Wing Echo Machine that of course will come! But STICK TO IT!!!

By ANY standard, it's a mess. Don't be sheepish about hammering away at that.

Above all, when confronted with "So what's YOUR answer? So what's YOUR solution?"... Argue for getting out, yes. But make this point: "There's NO easy answer. There's NO easy solution! And that's BUSH's fault! So we're supposed to let him continue simply because there's no easy answer?! There are no easy answers because HE MADE IT THAT WAY! He's FORFEITED his chance to try to fix it!!"

We HAVE to show people out there that there's a different way. Otherwise, they'll "stay the course" (gag!).

[lancdem]

64. Yes, Bush's numbers provide an opportunity

NOT a guarantee.

[Duer 157099]

67. Is this it?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1723571

Will this raise the Titanic?

[Brotherjohn]

68. UPDATE 2: Harris Poll now on Pollkatz graph.

Dropping like a stone!

[GlenP]

69. Here's why.

Why is it that congressional Democrats are polling worse than Bush or congressional republicans?

Because the subterfuge, deceit, disinformation, twisting of reality, bald faced lying, and pulling of wool over the eyes of Americans, that *IS* the mind (and mindset) of Karl Rove (and ilk) is still VERY strongly at work within the Republican party.

You see, they have become certifiable EXPERTS at this stuff.

The average American surely realizes, nor can they deny to themselves or others, that the country is WAY off track and heading in the wrong direction.

BUT, this is NO concern to Karl Rove's devious mind. Because no matter how low republicans can get, HE can make democrats even lower! You see, he's learned that it's a simple matter of once you've used patriotic fervor to convince Americans that republicans are the GOOD party, the patriotic party, the smart party, the strong party, the RIGHT party, to then turn around and blame democrats for ANYTHING that goes wrong.

See, it's not because republicans are doing such a bad job. It's because there are STILL too many democrats in congress "OBSTRUCTING" the efforts of Bush and congressional republicans. If anything, republicans are mearly to blame for not running complete roughshod over congressional democrats.

So... in great Karl Rovian logic, IF we get MORE republicans in congress we can FINALLY get our nation on the right track.

Of course, it doesn't help that the mainstream media is entirely complicit in the grand scheme. But if we don't turn this trend and unjustified belief in the American mindset around, then we WILL continue to lose elections, and if there is but ONE democrat left in office in ten years, he (or she) WILL be blamed by Karl Rove and the Republicans for absolutely everything that is wrong with our nation.

[lonestarnot]

71. OMG PARRRRRRRTTTTTEEEEEEEEEE!

:party: :toast:

[hnsez]

72. The last *'s #'s were this low was on 9/10/01

:mad: